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Author Topic: NY Pizza Suprema  (Read 3380 times)

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Offline PizzaSean

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NY Pizza Suprema
« on: May 12, 2013, 01:26:31 AM »
Hey all -

I have been meaning to post these up for some time. Snapped a few pics on a recent-ish trips and thought that they might be of interest some fellow NY style lovers.

Here ya go! Sorry the dough came out so overexposed and blown out looking...was trying to be on the sly and didn't really check my results until too late.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2013, 01:35:31 AM by PizzaSean »

Offline PizzaSean

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Re: NY Pizza Suprema
« Reply #1 on: May 12, 2013, 01:36:12 AM »
the rest.

Offline Marvin

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Re: NY Pizza Suprema
« Reply #2 on: May 12, 2013, 01:17:23 PM »
looks good enough to  eat
 



Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: NY Pizza Suprema
« Reply #3 on: May 12, 2013, 09:54:24 PM »
Boy I like that...I'm a sauce guy so that there is right up my alley.

Since you are doing some peeping around there Sean; see if you can duplicate their sauce and post something up here for us buddy...show how it's done!  :chef:
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Offline jkb

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Re: NY Pizza Suprema
« Reply #4 on: May 13, 2013, 08:12:41 AM »
Boy I like that...I'm a sauce guy so that there is right up my alley.

Since you are doing some peeping around there Sean; see if you can duplicate their sauce and post something up here for us buddy...show how it's done!  :chef:


I got a few slices there back in December.  I saw a lot of cans of Sapporito sauce on my way to the bathroom.
John

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Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: NY Pizza Suprema
« Reply #5 on: May 13, 2013, 12:17:57 PM »

I got a few slices there back in December.  I saw a lot of cans of Sapporito sauce on my way to the bathroom.
I really like the color of that sauce. Would you say Sean's pic is pretty true to the color in person jkb?
Saporito is an extra heavy pizza sauce; I imagine they water it a 'lil...I can get some from Penn Mac. It has basil in it too. I wonder if they blend it with any other tomato product? Thanks!  :chef:

Bob
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Offline PizzaSean

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Re: NY Pizza Suprema
« Reply #6 on: May 13, 2013, 02:37:18 PM »
Ahh, Sapporito! Haven't tried that yet, but I'm sure to pick up a can next time I visit my trusty restaurant supply store. I'm allow positive ive seen it there.

Re: colors, I haven't edited these photos or color corrected in any way. They look a little "cool" probably because they were just taken around noon in natural daylight.

Another interesting thing I noted that day was how heavy handed they are with the Romano and relatively light they are with the mozz. I decided to give it a try this past bake and really enjoyed the results! Also, for anyone in north NJ the bags of pecorino Romano that they sell at corrados (both the supermarket and the wholesale) are probably my favorite and come much closer to the taste I'm going for than those little tubs you find at most grocery stores.

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: NY Pizza Suprema
« Reply #7 on: May 13, 2013, 03:51:48 PM »
Thanks Sean. Yes, I did note that they are very light handed with their mozz....us sauceaholics notice these things.  :)  And I'll bet it tastes great. Good to see you playing around with different cheeses and amounts yourself. Man, so many different pizzas to test and I'm supposed to be trying to loose weight darn it!  :'(

Bob
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Offline politon

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Re: NY Pizza Suprema
« Reply #8 on: January 20, 2022, 03:07:16 AM »
Scott's Pizza Tours blogged about NY Pizza Suprema at https://www.scottspizzatours.com/blog/inside-ny-pizza-suprema/ in March of 2021.

The blog post includes a Q&A with NY Pizza Suprema owner Joe Riggio. Dough formula attached. The conversions of Joe's measurements provided by Scott's Pizza Tours are not entirely accurate.

I corrected the weights and scaled the formula using a conversion factor of 0.01, converted it from compressed yeast to IDY, and adjusted the baker's percentages. This would be appropriate for approximately two (2) 13-inch to 15-inch pizzas, depending upon the desired thickness factor:
Code: [Select]
All Trumps Flour (100%):                454 g
Water (57.3%):                          260 g
Instant dry yeast (.2%):                .9 g
Fine Sea Salt (1.9%):                   8.6 g
Soybean Oil (.73%):                     3.3 g
Total (160.13%):                        726.8 g
Single Ball:                            363.4 g

Errata:
  • IDY at 40% of the weight of compressed yeast (2.27*.40 = .908). Per Tom Lehmann at https://thinktank.pmq.com/t/fresh-yeast-to-idy-conversion/16494
  • I weighed Fine Sea Salt, it weighs 1.04 grams per ml. 28 fl oz*29.5735 = 828.058 ml. 828.059*1.04 = 861.18136 g. 861.18136/100 = 8.6118136 g
  • I weighed Soybean Oil, it weighs 0.8 grams per ml. 14 fl oz*29.5735 = 414.029 ml. 414.029*0.8 = 331.2232 g. 331.2232/100 = 3.312232 g
« Last Edit: January 20, 2022, 05:09:49 PM by politon »

Offline SHB

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Re: NY Pizza Suprema
« Reply #9 on: January 20, 2022, 10:58:16 AM »
I've lived in several apartments over the last 13 years in the city and they've all been in the delivery zone of NY Pizza Suprema. There was a noticeable drop in quality (crust got much thicker for a while) a few years back but since the pandemic they are back to their old selves. Suprema is still top notch in case anyone was wondering about making a trip.

@politon One thing that jumps out is your oil adjustment. 1ML of water = 1 gram, oil is only slightly less dense than water (like ~95% the density of water) so I think you're under reporting your oil a bit.
« Last Edit: January 20, 2022, 11:08:28 AM by SHB »

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Offline Jon in Albany

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Re: NY Pizza Suprema
« Reply #10 on: January 20, 2022, 11:12:54 AM »
Everything I'm about to write falls in the category of nit-picking, but I just wanted to mention a few things future conversions.

I followed most of what you did but I don't understand your flour and water conversions. I don't think that it will make any real difference because it's just a few grams of flour.

"I weighed All Trumps Bleached and Bromated flour, it weighs 28.5 grams per ounce or 456 grams per pound. 100 lbs. is equivalent to 45.6 kilograms."

An adjustment would make sense to me when converting volumetric measurements to grams, but 100 pounds of flour will weigh 45.3592 Kg (with extra significant digits that aren't really necessary).

Then I see the hydration changes with the change in flour weight, but the original looks correct to me. 26 liters of water will weigh 26 kg and 26/45.3592 is 57.32%.

I didn't see anything that said Suprema used fine sea salt. So the volumetric measurement isn't going to work. I'd trust Scott's baker's percentage here. The difference between your fine salt calculation and Scott's is almost 100g. That's a pretty big swing but scaled down into your batch it is only about a gram difference so not huge.

All that said, I bet the recipe you have outline makes a good pizza. I think the salt might be a tick low but that is a personal preference. But the numbers to Suprema might not be apples to apples.

Offline politon

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Re: NY Pizza Suprema
« Reply #11 on: January 20, 2022, 12:13:07 PM »
I've lived in several apartments over the last 13 years in the city and they've all been in the delivery zone of NY Pizza Suprema. There was a noticeable drop in quality (crust got much thicker for a while) a few years back but since the pandemic they are back to their old selves. Suprema is still top notch in case anyone was wondering about making a trip.

@politon One thing that jumps out is your oil adjustment. 1ML of water = 1 gram, oil is only slightly less dense than water (like ~95% the density of water) so I think you're under reporting your oil a bit.

It was late and I must have jotted something down incorrectly. I reweighed the soybean oil at 100 ml, 150 ml, and 200 ml just to be sure and it weighs .8 grams per ml. Thanks for the sanity check, SHB! I'll correct my original post.

Offline politon

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Re: NY Pizza Suprema
« Reply #12 on: January 20, 2022, 01:22:32 PM »
Everything I'm about to write falls in the category of nit-picking, but I just wanted to mention a few things future conversions.

I followed most of what you did but I don't understand your flour and water conversions. I don't think that it will make any real difference because it's just a few grams of flour.

"I weighed All Trumps Bleached and Bromated flour, it weighs 28.5 grams per ounce or 456 grams per pound. 100 lbs. is equivalent to 45.6 kilograms."

An adjustment would make sense to me when converting volumetric measurements to grams, but 100 pounds of flour will weigh 45.3592 Kg (with extra significant digits that aren't really necessary).

Then I see the hydration changes with the change in flour weight, but the original looks correct to me. 26 liters of water will weigh 26 kg and 26/45.3592 is 57.32%.

I didn't see anything that said Suprema used fine sea salt. So the volumetric measurement isn't going to work. I'd trust Scott's baker's percentage here. The difference between your fine salt calculation and Scott's is almost 100g. That's a pretty big swing but scaled down into your batch it is only about a gram difference so not huge.

All that said, I bet the recipe you have outline makes a good pizza. I think the salt might be a tick low but that is a personal preference. But the numbers to Suprema might not be apples to apples.

I weighed what I could, so yes, the difference in flour weight is a nit. Trust, but verify.

Once the weight of the flour changed, so did the baker's percentage for the hydration. Again, a nit. I didn't say the original estimates were wildy incorrect, just not entirely accurate. I'm not big fan of anything beyond gram precision. That being said, the same could be said for my estimates as well.

It is generally accepted that sea salt can be substituted directly on a one to one basis for regular table salt. I highly doubt that they're using Kosher salt.

In Reply #5 at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=4859.msg41184#msg41184, Evelyne Slomon suggests using sea salt. Furthermore, Tom Lehmann stated, "We have never seen any difference in flavor in the finished crust resulting from the use of sea salt." at https://thinktank.pmq.com/t/sea-salt/15873/4

In an effort to verify the estimates provided, what would you suggest that I have used instead of sea salt?

« Last Edit: January 20, 2022, 02:03:16 PM by politon »

Offline Jon in Albany

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Re: NY Pizza Suprema
« Reply #13 on: January 20, 2022, 02:45:17 PM »
I weighed what I could, so yes, the difference in flour weight is a nit. Trust, but verify.

Once the weight of the flour changed, so did the baker's percentage for the hydration. Again, a nit. I didn't say the original estimates were wildy incorrect, just not entirely accurate. I'm not big fan of anything beyond gram precision. That being said, the same could be said for my estimates as well.

It is generally accepted that sea salt can be substituted directly on a one to one basis for regular table salt. I highly doubt that they're using Kosher salt.

In Reply #5 at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=4859.msg41184#msg41184, Evelyne Slomon suggests using sea salt. Furthermore, Tom Lehmann stated, "We have never seen any difference in flavor in the finished crust resulting from the use of sea salt." at https://thinktank.pmq.com/t/sea-salt/15873/4

In an effort to verify the estimates provided, what would you suggest that I have used instead of sea salt?

I get trust but verify, but the conversion on 100 pounds to kilograms is set. Doesn't matter if it is 100 pounds of rock or flour.

For the salt, I would have used salt by bakers percentage.  Scott had 2.1% salt. So assuming he did a decent volume conversion on whatever salt he saw or thought they used, 0.021x45.359 kg of flour = 0.953 kg of salt. Adjusting to your batch size is 953g/100, so 9.5g of salt.

The way I look at it with weights, the type of salt doesn't matter. 10 grams of fine sea salt will take up less volume that 10 grams of coarse salt. I've used several types of salt in doughs and agree with Tom's observation. Never noticed a flavor difference .

Offline politon

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Re: NY Pizza Suprema
« Reply #14 on: January 20, 2022, 02:55:40 PM »
I get trust but verify, but the conversion on 100 pounds to kilograms is set. Doesn't matter if it is 100 pounds of rock or flour.

For the salt, I would have used salt by bakers percentage.  Scott had 2.1% salt. So assuming he did a decent volume conversion on whatever salt he saw or thought they used, 0.021x45.359 kg of flour = 0.953 kg of salt. Adjusting to your batch size is 953g/100, so 9.5g of salt.

The way I look at it with weights, the type of salt doesn't matter. 10 grams of fine sea salt will take up less volume that 10 grams of coarse salt. I've used several types of salt in doughs and agree with Tom's observation. Never noticed a flavor difference .

You seem to want to argue for the sake of arguing without any substantiation or effort beyond expressing your opinion. I'll agree to disagree.

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Offline SHB

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Re: NY Pizza Suprema
« Reply #15 on: January 20, 2022, 03:53:05 PM »
Its not really his opinion that 100 pounds is 45.36 KG or that one ounce = 28.35 grams any more than 10 miles per hour = 16 kilometers per hour. These are set conversions thus no need to weigh the flour. I believe the initial confusions could be that you were confusing fluid ounces vs ounces (weight)?

Offline politon

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Re: NY Pizza Suprema
« Reply #16 on: January 20, 2022, 04:56:07 PM »
Its not really his opinion that 100 pounds is 45.36 KG or that one ounce = 28.35 grams any more than 10 miles per hour = 16 kilometers per hour. These are set conversions thus no need to weigh the flour. I believe the initial confusions could be that you were confusing fluid ounces vs ounces (weight)?

I understand the differences between dry ounces (by weight) and fluid ounces (by volume). Every flour is different, some have additives beyond ground wheat and some don't. That got me thinking about bulk density, which is where is where I went astray as that doesn't change mass density.

Offline politon

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Re: NY Pizza Suprema
« Reply #17 on: January 21, 2022, 12:22:43 AM »
It appears that Scott's Pizza Tours calculated the soybean oil based upon British Imperial fluid ounces and assumed that the soybean oil equaled the density of water, 1 g/mL.

i.e. 14 fl oz*28.413071429 = 397.783 ml or 397 grams. This doesn't make any sense. Why would NY Pizza Suprema use British Imperial units? Furthermore, soybean oil density is not the same as water as previously discussed.

Assuming that NY Pizza Suprema uses U.S. fluid ounces, 14 fl oz*29.5735 = 414.029 ml. 414.029*.08 to account for the difference in density between water and soybean oil, equates to 331.2232 ml as I stated in in Reply #11 at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=25118.msg695364#msg695364 and the Errata in Reply #8 at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=25118.msg695290#msg695290

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