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Author Topic: tangzhong water roux pizza for higher hydration  (Read 602 times)

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Offline pizzajucas

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tangzhong water roux pizza for higher hydration
« on: August 28, 2017, 05:53:01 AM »
Hello everyone,
after reading the books of Gemignani and Forkish, after watching at the videos on youtube where the famous pizzaioli from Napoli use about 1,5 kg of flour every liter of water, then I started to try to bring my hydration to 70% or above.
I found out that higer fiber and protein flour gave me a dough that once formed into pizza balls would keep the form without collpas.
On the other hand, when I use low fiber low protein flour, protein contnet of 10%, a hydration above 65% give me a dough unable to shape in balls because really sticky and unable to retain a shape, if shaped in a ball, it would collaps in a sticky disc, no matter how long I used to develop the gluten starting with a 60% dough and slowly adding more water till 70% controlling the temperature during the all process.
So I was wondering how can I keep high hydration with a low protein flour???
I obtained astonishing resluts using tangzhoung, the pizza balls keep their shape for longer than 8 hours while they rise.
1kg of low peotein flour, 700gr of water, 1gr of dry yeast, 27gr of salt. 5% of the flurs, so 50 grams was mixed with 250ml of water, the mix was brought above 65 celsius degrees so to obtain a gel. Then I added the water the yeast and the salt to the mixer (Bosh universal plus), dissolevd everything then added the flour and mixed till a good consistency then added the tangzhong.
Waited 1 hour then shaped into 230gr balls and rised 8 hours.
The resulting crust was a lot softer compared to the same flour but 60% hydration, and that's what I wanted beacuse I bake on the gas bbq with a pizza stone and it takes like 5-7 mins to bake so I used to obtain a dry pizza had to chew.

Next step 75% hydration.

Try that and comment! Have fun!

Offline TaZ10101

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Re: tangzhong water roux pizza for higher hydration
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2017, 11:03:56 AM »
I tried 70% with Caputo Blue and it failed completely, I now know max is the low 60’s.
This sounds interesting but I have no idea what “tangzhong” means and what is 5% flurs?
Can you explain a bit please?

Offline The Dough Doctor

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Re: tangzhong water roux pizza for higher hydration
« Reply #2 on: December 07, 2017, 11:23:42 PM »
In wheat flour it is the protein and the fiber which carry the water, this is why dough absorption is tied to the protein content of the flour rather than just "flour". You can use a poolish to maximize the absorption but the difference in total absorption between a high and low protein flour will still be there.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

Offline Loarina Vega

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Re: tangzhong water roux pizza for higher hydration
« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2017, 06:31:16 AM »

This sounds interesting but I have no idea what “tangzhong” means and what is 5% flurs?
Can you explain a bit please?
[/quote].........

Offline TaZ10101

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Re: tangzhong water roux pizza for higher hydration
« Reply #4 on: December 08, 2017, 08:11:27 AM »
Ok thanks I think I get it now, will a poolish allow higher hydration Tom?

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Offline The Dough Doctor

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Re: tangzhong water roux pizza for higher hydration
« Reply #5 on: December 08, 2017, 09:05:02 PM »
What you have described is just making pre-gelatinized starch, it will allow you to add more water to the dough BUT the resulting bread or crust will also have a higher finished moisture content which can be tolerated in bread but in pizza crust it results in a soft, soggy crust soon after baking the pizza.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

Offline The Dough Doctor

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Re: tangzhong water roux pizza for higher hydration
« Reply #6 on: December 08, 2017, 09:06:26 PM »
Oh yes, using a poolish will allow you to get the maximum amount of water into the dough.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

Offline TaZ10101

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Re: tangzhong water roux pizza for higher hydration
« Reply #7 on: December 10, 2017, 08:04:53 AM »
As the post started by saying in Napoli they often add 1.5kg to a litre of water which is approx 70%, do you think it is likely this is achieved with a blend of 00, 0 and type 1 flour to develop the correct hydration?

Offline TaZ10101

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Re: tangzhong water roux pizza for higher hydration
« Reply #8 on: December 12, 2017, 12:40:47 PM »
Oh yes, using a poolish will allow you to get the maximum amount of water into the dough.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

As the post started by saying in Napoli they often add 1.5kg to a litre of water which is approx 70%, do you think it is likely this is achieved with a blend of 00, 0 and type 1 flour to develop the correct hydration?

Offline The Dough Doctor

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Re: tangzhong water roux pizza for higher hydration
« Reply #9 on: December 14, 2017, 01:24:37 AM »
Probably not. Flour is quite variable in protein quality and quantity and there there are quality characteristics specific to the wheat used to make the flour that can/will affect the dough absorption this is why I always say "pick a flour, any flour, then optimize the dough absorption and you're good to go". This sure beats trying to keep the dough absorption at a fixed amount. They do it in dry mixes all the time but instead of manipulating the flour they add ingredients which can be used to increase or decrease the mix absorption, these ingredients include things such as gums, soy flour, potato flour and sometimes pre-gelatinized starch or fiber.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

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Offline TaZ10101

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Re: tangzhong water roux pizza for higher hydration
« Reply #10 on: December 14, 2017, 07:49:18 AM »
Probably not. Flour is quite variable in protein quality and quantity and there there are quality characteristics specific to the wheat used to make the flour that can/will affect the dough absorption this is why I always say "pick a flour, any flour, then optimize the dough absorption and you're good to go". This sure beats trying to keep the dough absorption at a fixed amount. They do it in dry mixes all the time but instead of manipulating the flour they add ingredients which can be used to increase or decrease the mix absorption, these ingredients include things such as gums, soy flour, potato flour and sometimes pre-gelatinized starch or fiber.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

Come to think about it the recipes I’ve seen usually say 1.7kg flour which is 58% roughly.

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