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Author Topic: Re: Matt's NY Pizzeria Visits  (Read 16697 times)

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Offline invertedisdead

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Re: Matt's NY Pizzeria Visits
« Reply #60 on: June 23, 2019, 09:39:30 AM »
The takeaway for me is that unique undercrust texture you see in the photos, it just looks different than most other slices. The lack of bubbles underneath makes me think it's probably a same day dough to achieve that look?
the proof is in the pizza

Offline hammettjr

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Re: Matt's NY Pizzeria Visits
« Reply #61 on: June 23, 2019, 09:53:19 AM »
The takeaway for me is that unique undercrust texture you see in the photos, it just looks different than most other slices. The lack of bubbles underneath makes me think it's probably a same day dough to achieve that look?

I think the undercrust texture is from the screen (though I may not know exactly what you're referring too). The underside of the dough I bought had lots of real small bubbles...but small and somewhat subtle. I have no idea whether it was same day or not...but yeah, I'm very focused on trying to understand the linkage between final bake/skin opening quality and underside bubbles. I'm not sure if that's too simplistic, but I'm trying.
Matt

Offline hammettjr

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Re: Matt's NY Pizzeria Visits
« Reply #62 on: June 23, 2019, 09:55:40 AM »
Another takeway for me from the video was the sauce thinness. Wasn't quite Pizza Town, but it was very thin. It was noticeably thin when eating the pizza, and I think that adds a lot (for my tastes). So I'm not a big believer in the idea that a deck over thickens out the thin sauces. The end result was still very thin (and amazing).

Matt

Offline PizzaJerk

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Re: Matt's NY Pizzeria Visits
« Reply #63 on: June 23, 2019, 10:44:07 AM »
The shine on the dough ball is oil. They use the dough tins to store the dough before use. They probably use a fair amount to coat the tins so the dough doesn't find a spot to stick as it proofs.

Offline hammettjr

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Re: Matt's NY Pizzeria Visits
« Reply #64 on: June 23, 2019, 11:26:33 AM »
Would dried herbs and fresh basil disintegrate from a stick blender so they are no longer visible in the sauce?

I cant get this pizza out of my head...I want to go back already.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2019, 11:56:17 AM by hammettjr »
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Offline quietdesperation

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Re: Matt's NY Pizzeria Visits
« Reply #65 on: June 23, 2019, 11:57:21 AM »
matt, when my wife and I were looking for a pied in nyc I suggested flushing. It's a good thing she said no cause I'd be dead by now from eating all that great food:  regional indian,  korean, japanese, thai, pizza and of course chinese.

 I grew up on long island and don't find queens pizza all that different from the pizza of my yut  :D It seems like amore and lucia are bringing something to the table that your local LI places are not?

best,
jeff

Offline hammettjr

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Re: Matt's NY Pizzeria Visits
« Reply #66 on: June 23, 2019, 12:19:51 PM »
... I grew up on long island and don't find queens pizza all that different from the pizza of my yut  :D It seems like amore and lucia are bringing something to the table that your local LI places are not?

best,

I dont think I knew you were from LI. There are good pizzerias here, but I havent been blown away. One of the big differences is the juiciness of those Queens slices. I feel like it's hard to find pizzerias that put a good amount of sauce (and cheese for that matter). So many slices seem like lightly topped bread.

Matt

Offline invertedisdead

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Re: Matt's NY Pizzeria Visits
« Reply #67 on: June 23, 2019, 12:25:06 PM »
Would dried herbs and fresh basil disintegrate from a stick blender so they are no longer visible in the sauce?

I cant get this pizza out of my head...I want to go back already.


Maybe an infused oil?

I'm reminded of this recipe.

https://newyork.seriouseats.com/2009/10/making-scarpetta-tomato-basil-spaghetti-scott-conant-scarpetta-meatpacking-district-nyce.html
the proof is in the pizza

Offline PizzaJerk

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Re: Matt's NY Pizzeria Visits
« Reply #68 on: June 23, 2019, 12:50:26 PM »
One thing you may want to try is to take a leaf or two of fresh basil and dry it in your oven by the heat of the pilot light. When it's dry you'll be able to rub it between your fingers and turn it into powder.

Offline PizzaJerk

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Re: Matt's NY Pizzeria Visits
« Reply #69 on: June 23, 2019, 12:55:10 PM »
You'll also be able to remove the stemy pieces if you desire and be left with just the delicate leafy part.

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Offline wb54885

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Re: Matt's NY Pizzeria Visits
« Reply #70 on: June 23, 2019, 01:52:08 PM »
I cant get this pizza out of my head...I want to go back already.


I know how you feel! I’ve changed all my internet passwords and my cat’s name to Lucia.
Every oven is a law unto itself and only itself.

Offline foreplease

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Re: Matt's NY Pizzeria Visits
« Reply #71 on: June 23, 2019, 07:48:54 PM »
I know how you feel! I’ve changed all my internet passwords and my cat’s name to Lucia.
I changed all mine some time ago to “incorrect.” Now when I can’t remember or mistype one I get a pop up reminder” Your password is incorrect.”  ;D
-Tony

Offline jkb

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Re: Matt's NY Pizzeria Visits
« Reply #72 on: June 23, 2019, 08:58:14 PM »
I changed all mine some time ago to “incorrect.” Now when I can’t remember or mistype one I get a pop up reminder” Your password is incorrect.”  ;D

I just logged into your pizzamaking account and it worked!  I'm gonna f..k with you bigtime!
John

Offline norma427

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Re: Matt's NY Pizzeria Visits
« Reply #73 on: June 24, 2019, 08:35:57 AM »
Hi Norma, thanks a lot for asking this. I've been thinking about dough opening with oil vs flour on and off for the last couple months, and your question led me to think a step deeper. And I'll likely experiment a bit with my pizza as a result.

My first thought when I saw the skin from a distance was "wow, that's shiny and oily". I didn't see an oil container either, though it's hard to say if it was hidden amongst the other items on the counter. The dough ball I purchased had a good amount of oil on it. I'm reminded of the conversation I had with my local pizzeria, that also uses the mesh screen, where he said (and showed me) that the dough ball proofs in the metal container in a pool of oil, or what he called an "oil bath". It's possible that the oil bath is enough where they don't have to add more oil on the counter.

But, at around the 6 second mark you'll see that he adds flour and rubs it in and all over one side of the skin. That side goes over his knuckles, then becomes the bottom of the pizza. My local pizzeria told me they also add a bit of flour when opening too. This is interesting because I've clearly demonstrated that with these screens, oil is sufficient to release the pizza, and flour is not necessary.

What I'm thinking is that they like to add a bit of flour as it soaks up the oil. The result will be an undercrust that isn't oily/fried, but also doesn't have raw flour. Basically the oil and flour offset one-another. I want to try this.

The other interesting thing in watching him open the skin, is at the very end just before he puts it onto the screen, he gives it a stretch right in the center. Usually we think of that as a no-no, but that's because our skins open themselves and would be overstretched. This one gave him full control over the stretch, and the center stretch helped even it out.

Matt,

Thanks for your detailed reply!  ;D

I haven't had much of any time to play around with my screens like yours.  I think only one bake and the screens still aren't seasoned enough.  Just too busy to have time to experiment with those screens. 

Matt,

It sounds if you are right if Lucia put their dough balls in oil, that probably that is why the dough was shiny.  I remember different times when Frank Giaquinto opened dough balls that were sitting in oil.  Frank did add a little oil to the bench though, like in this video.  Frank also added flour to the bottom of the dough skin.  Can't recall where there was a video of a dough that Frank brought a dough ball that was sitting in a lot of oil, but that pizza crust was the most different than I ever tasted.  I had asked Tom Lehmann why that was, but don't know if he missed that post, or if he didn't know why that happened.



Norma

Offline Carmine Abramo

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Re: Matt's NY Pizzeria Visits
« Reply #74 on: June 25, 2019, 08:43:43 PM »
Would dried herbs and fresh basil disintegrate from a stick blender so they are no longer visible in the sauce?

I cant get this pizza out of my head...I want to go back already.

Perhaps they use a bouquet garni or similar while they pre cook their sauce.

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Offline Carmine Abramo

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Re: Matt's NY Pizzeria Visits
« Reply #75 on: June 25, 2019, 08:45:07 PM »


It sounds if you are right if Lucia put their dough balls in oil, that probably that is why the dough was shiny.  I remember different times when Frank Giaquinto opened dough balls that were sitting in oil.  Frank did add a little oil to the bench though, like in this video.  Frank also added flour to the bottom of the dough skin.  Can't recall where there was a video of a dough that Frank brought a dough ball that was sitting in a lot of oil, but that pizza crust was the most different than I ever tasted.  I had asked Tom Lehmann why that was, but don't know if he missed that post, or if he didn't know why that happened.

Norma

Interesting that Frank Giaquinto is versed in this type of NY pizza preparation with the oil opening and mesh and being that he has made over a million NY pies it says alot about these "Queens" pizzas.  They seem to be a bridge to the past.

Offline Carmine Abramo

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Re: Matt's NY Pizzeria Visits
« Reply #76 on: June 25, 2019, 08:47:43 PM »
There’s NY Elite which is “real” NY Style pizza and there’s NY corner slice. The corner slice is usually the easier/cheaper made junk and outweighs the good places. The original coal oven style pizza usually with sauce on top is the actual NY Style pizza. That’s the one people recommend, the one you pay more for, and the one with the longest lines 8 out of 10 times.

Most New Yorkers never ate a coal oven pizza.  Coal oven era was pre-war when Italian immigrants lived in enclaves and making these things on the side alongside their main bakery business and this is before pizza became universally popular.  All you need to do is watch this video to know what NY pizza is.  Those sure look alot like the Lucia photos


« Last Edit: June 25, 2019, 08:49:56 PM by Carmine Abramo »

Offline Carmine Abramo

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Re: Re: Matt's NY Pizzeria Visits
« Reply #77 on: June 25, 2019, 08:55:34 PM »
How does it not make sense?

Hate to break it to you, but there's a reason Joe's is consistently named by numerous NY publications as the prototypical NY slice. NY Times, Eater, Grubstreet, Food and Wine, Timeout, Scott's Pizza Tours, and everyone who owns or runs a pizza shop here (Mark Iacono, Frank Pinello, Paulie, Adam Kuban the list goes on.) Anyone who is actually here will tell you Joe's is the template for a NY slice, and other slices tend to follow that. Luigi's in South Brooklyn, countless other slice shops. It's dough, milled tomato with little to no seasoning, and aged mozzarella in the proper proportions baked on a stone.

I'm not saying you have to like it, but don't go changing what has historically been NY pizza for decades. You can have your personal preferences but this is what NY pizza has been. And by the way, there's a reason Amore or Lucia don't make those "best of lists." Again, you don't have to agree but you guys are in the minority compared to the people that actually live here or come from the area.

Joe's pizza is currently the tourist slice of Manhattan, what Pizzeria Uno is to Chicago pizza.  Recognizable name and pretty standard and representative.  All you need to know is who lives in what neighborhoods these days.  Bleecker and Carmine are mostly out of state college grads.  Joe's also opened very late relative to the NY pizza timeline, sometime in the 1970's.  They were famed for having an even thinner crust than most NY pizzerias and less cheese and sauce and became a popular place for late night drinkers who wanted to satiate their hunger without over bloating themselves.  There was once a club in the 1990's called Bank right outside the Bleecker Joe's, this is really the main reason it became famous, nothing more really.  Location, location, location...

« Last Edit: June 25, 2019, 08:58:09 PM by Carmine Abramo »

Offline hammettjr

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Re: Matt's NY Pizzeria Visits
« Reply #78 on: June 25, 2019, 10:36:38 PM »
Perhaps they use a bouquet garni or similar while they pre cook their sauce.

That's what I've been thinking, based on comments from the previous forum member that effectively brought Queens pizza to the forum. Could be they pre-cook at least a portion of the sauce. The fresh basil piece I got seemed like it accidentally made it past whatever their process is.

« Last Edit: June 25, 2019, 10:39:12 PM by hammettjr »
Matt

Offline Carmine Abramo

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Re: Matt's NY Pizzeria Visits
« Reply #79 on: June 25, 2019, 11:15:49 PM »
That's what I've been thinking, based on comments from the previous forum member that effectively brought Queens pizza to the forum. Could be they pre-cook at least a portion of the sauce. The fresh basil piece I got seemed like it accidentally made it past whatever their process is.

Never had Lucia but sounds like it's not just tomato and salt.  Sauce is the main flavor in a pizza and that they didn't sell you the sauce says alot. 
Besides a bouquet garni they may just remove large pieces though a sieve with large leaves for instance.  What does the pizza taste like?  Does it have an aged hard cheese flavor?

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