Pizza Making Forum

Pizza Making => New York Style => Topic started by: piesofsatan on August 02, 2020, 01:06:17 PM

Title: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: piesofsatan on August 02, 2020, 01:06:17 PM
Hey all, this forum has helped me so much over the past couple of months with info, so first of all just wanted to thank all of you for doing what you do!!

I've lived in the NYC-area my entire life (grew up 12 miles from the city in Valley Stream, LI, now living in Brooklyn for the past 10 years), and I've made pizzas when I was younger from just buying dough from the local joint, but it took the quarantine for me to attempt making dough from scratch. It was discouraging at first, but basically I bought a baking steel and things improved greatly, now I'm on my 6th or 7th pie at this point and I've been having a lot of fun.

Yesterday I made a same-day dough. I ran out of bread flour, so I used the NYT / Roberta's recipe as a guide ( https://cooking.nytimes.com/recipes/1016230-robertas-pizza-dough (https://cooking.nytimes.com/recipes/1016230-robertas-pizza-dough) ) as I had Caputo's 00 Chef's flour and APF on hand. Now I know 00 isn't suitable for home ovens, I just bought it on a whim upon seeing it at the store recently. I essentially followed the recipe completely but added a teaspoon of sugar to the mix to help the browning.

I covered and put in the cold oven for 4 hours, but my house is fairly warm even with the A/C going as it is August in NYC so it rose quicker than expected.

My sauce was made with La Valle WP, essentially following J Kenji Lopez Alt's recipe - https://www.seriouseats.com/recipes/2010/10/new-york-style-pizza-sauce.html (https://www.seriouseats.com/recipes/2010/10/new-york-style-pizza-sauce.html) . Still can't decide if I like cooked sauce or a simple raw tomato sauce more on my pizza but I do know I still haven't perfectly achieved that NYC sauce flavor, hoping to learn more and figure it out.

Cheese was a brick of LMWM Wegman's brand Mozz. I've used this the most recently as it is always there at Wegman's when I'm shopping. I'm not a huge fan of the flavor and actually today went out and got a brick of WM Pollyo, Biazzo, and Galbani to switch it up and see if I notice a difference upon my next attempts.

Overall I was really happy with how this one came out aesthetically, the dough recipe said it yielded two 12" pies, but I split it a bit unevenly to make one approx 14" and one 10" pie. This was the easiest time I've had opening the dough as I feel like I just got the motions down and really learned not to touch the middle while stretching. The browning issue with 00 people spoke about I definitely noticed, but I also like my pies on the well done side so I left it in a bit longer. Just wish the crust rose a bit more, but assuming that has something to do with the short fermentation period as well as the flour types.

Anyway, photo attached. I have a long way to go flavor wise (I'd really like to get something akin to Scarr's sauce), but every time I make one it gets better and better.



Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: piesofsatan on August 02, 2020, 04:19:53 PM
Also, sorry, did not realize Kenji isn't the most popular person on this forum, but during quarantine his videos actually made me want to give it a go.  :-\
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: piesofsatan on August 24, 2020, 03:20:23 PM
Pie from the other night!

Dough was made based on the Scarr's clone recipe from this forum. Bianco DiNapoli tomatoes. Cheese was the wildcard because I was only able to find FoodTown brand WMLM mozz, but did a blend of that and Biazzo part-skim, with some fresh mozz to sprinkle on top. Got one of the long spouted measuring cups Norma recommends to try her method of spiral saucing with some cheese on before saucing, then more after. Spilt a bit on the edge in places for my first go at it but I was still happy with the result. Cooked on a round 16" baking steel (wish I had a rectangle one to do bigger pies) at 500 degrees F.

It's not the prettiest, and certainly not quite where I want my pizza to be yet, but I was happy with this one!
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: RHawthorne on August 28, 2020, 04:11:26 AM
Wow, I'm surprised I'm the first one to reply to this post. I have to say that for somebody who's only made NY style pizza a few times, your efforts look quite impressive. The only thing I'd say is that the crust on the pizza shown in your first post looks just slightly thick, but it still looks excellent. There's no doubt that you'll pick up lots of good tips and advice here, but it looks like you've definitely got the fundamentals down. Keep up the good work.
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: HansB on August 28, 2020, 06:11:07 AM
Also, sorry, did not realize Kenji isn't the most popular person on this forum, but during quarantine his videos actually made me want to give it a go.  :-\

No need to apologize. My first real successful pizza was made using the New York Style formula from Kenji, it may not have been authentic NY but it was really good. I have often recommended Kenji's Foolproof Pan Pizza recipe to people as a first pizza bake, everyone has had great results with it and I still make it ocasionally.
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: RHawthorne on August 28, 2020, 06:20:48 AM
Also, sorry, did not realize Kenji isn't the most popular person on this forum, but during quarantine his videos actually made me want to give it a go.  :-\
I've heard him say a couple of things I didn't agree with when it comes to pizza, but overall I think he knows food well enough. Have you seen negative posts about him here? I never have.
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: Peter B on August 29, 2020, 11:32:15 AM
These pies look pretty damn good to me.  I know what you mean about the flavor being off though.  I have had pies that looked great and just lacked that certain something.
If you are looking to get the sauce right (as I am), here is something you can try:
https://www.amazon.com/Don-Pepino-Pizza-Sauce-Ounce/dp/B00F9TCLAY

I am able to find it in multiple stores here near Columbus, OH.  So since they are from NJ, I would guess that you would be able to find it more easily in the NY area.  I found it in an Italian bakery and the GFS restaurant supply place.  I think the sauce tasted spot-on to me.  Since it is not a common thing that you would be able to find in a grocery store, I am still working on being able to create a decent sauce from a can of tomatoes.
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: piesofsatan on August 31, 2020, 05:14:42 PM
Wow, I'm surprised I'm the first one to reply to this post. I have to say that for somebody who's only made NY style pizza a few times, your efforts look quite impressive. The only thing I'd say is that the crust on the pizza shown in your first post looks just slightly thick, but it still looks excellent. There's no doubt that you'll pick up lots of good tips and advice here, but it looks like you've definitely got the fundamentals down. Keep up the good work.

Thanks so much! Yeah the crust definitely puffed a bit more than typical NY style, but that is just me still working the kinks out as far as stretching goes, and also accommodating a smaller than i'd like pizza peel, though there are a few spots here in NYC that have a puffier than usual crust that I love, like Roebling Pizza in Williamsburg, believe it has been there since 1960! https://s3-media0.fl.yelpcdn.com/bphoto/oVXmvnC2PVh1S0fQQP0IYg/o.jpg

No need to apologize. My first real successful pizza was made using the New York Style formula from Kenji, it may not have been authentic NY but it was really good. I have often recommended Kenji's Foolproof Pan Pizza recipe to people as a first pizza bake, everyone has had great results with it and I still make it ocasionally.

The pan pizza I've done as well and is really easy and always comes out great!

I've heard him say a couple of things I didn't agree with when it comes to pizza, but overall I think he knows food well enough. Have you seen negative posts about him here? I never have.

All were older posts through searches i've done when researching, but it seemed like people thought that he'd borrowed a lot of specific info from this forum's users for his recipes without any credit. I have enjoyed watching Kenji's videos, and like I said - watching/reading his recipes has made me more confident in doing this, and ultimately led me here so can't be all bad.

These pies look pretty damn good to me.  I know what you mean about the flavor being off though.  I have had pies that looked great and just lacked that certain something.
If you are looking to get the sauce right (as I am), here is something you can try:
https://www.amazon.com/Don-Pepino-Pizza-Sauce-Ounce/dp/B00F9TCLAY

I am able to find it in multiple stores here near Columbus, OH.  So since they are from NJ, I would guess that you would be able to find it more easily in the NY area.  I found it in an Italian bakery and the GFS restaurant supply place.  I think the sauce tasted spot-on to me.  Since it is not a common thing that you would be able to find in a grocery store, I am still working on being able to create a decent sauce from a can of tomatoes.

Wow, I've never heard of this before! I'd love to try it out - will do some research. The main goal though is to get that flavor on my own, but would be fun to play around with something like this too!

--

I really appreciate everyones responses!! Feels great to receive such nice compliments on the pies. I find it really hard to take a break from doing it, ha! Just got a bunch of new flour in, and one last can of Bianco DiNapoli for now so will be making more ASAP. Next post below I'll show a square pie I made recently.
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: piesofsatan on August 31, 2020, 05:29:03 PM
Sicilian slices were a big favorite for me as a kid. One sicilian, three garlic knots and a can of coke was my go to order at my local growing up, Pizza Amore in Valley Stream (Not to be confused with the wonderful Amore in Flushing!), so naturally when I started making pizza from scratch I wanted to do a sicilian pie. Before I attempted one, I got one of those Lloyd Detroit Style pans to mess around with because I loved the idea of the burnt cheese crust around it. Did a couple versions of detroit style, was pretty satisfied but I really just wanted to make a square like I grew up with, maybe with a couple of detroit traits (like the burnt cheese crust)

This is what I came out with. Used the dough recipe from Kenji's detroit style pie, but everything else was riffed by me. Sauce was Bianco DiNapoli WP, pushed through a mesh strainer (still don't have a food mill), put into the food processor with 2 cloves of garlic grated, some granulated garlic, oregano, evoo, salt, pepper, etc. Pulsed a few times and chilled until ready to use. Cheese was Biazzo WM Mozz, Biazzo has been the best for me so far flavor-wise, Pecorino Romano, and then Parm to finish. (Will be taking a trip out to Sansone Market soon to grab some Grande Mozz finally as I've never been able to find it / use it yet.)

Baked in the Lloyd pan at 500 F until it looked done, definitely came out still looking somewhat like a Detroit pie but I did the sauce application in diagonal lines like places I grew up with, as well as putting sesame seeds on the bottom crust and a bit on top too, and used Mozz, so as far as I'm concerned its a sicilian pie.

I feel like it could've been left in a TINY bit longer to get a bit crispier on the bottom but otherwise I was pretty happy with this one.

Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: Peter B on September 01, 2020, 08:14:09 AM
Some REALLY good looking pizza in these last two posts.

Re: Don Pepino.  My thought is that I can use it as a baseline to compare against something I am making.  That way, I always have a decent reference point.  What I have found is that there is no "NY style sauce", even though there are lots of recipes on the web that say so.  For example - I have seen recipes (and ate a pizza) with a lot of sugar, which just seemed distracting to me.  I think Forkish even says something about it being typical to the style.  Some recipes says that 'every' NY pizza place cooks their sauce (I find that hard to believe), some use a lot of dried oregano, etc.  I also realized that I guess I am not as picky about sauce as I thought I was - haha.  The Don Pepino would be fine for me if it had a little more oregano or whatever.  So I guess it comes down to the tomatoes having that right balance of brightness, freshness, etc. for what you are looking for.

Now that I think of it - I saw a video where Marc Ioconno (from Lucali) walked someone through making a home version of his pie.  I could have sworn that he said to use Del Monte tomato sauce with some seasonings and cook it for a long time.  I am open to trying that, but I suspect it is not what I am looking for.  Then again - I have never eaten at Lucali, so maybe if I did, I would want to rethink everything.   ???
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: Peter B on September 01, 2020, 04:18:29 PM
BTW Satan - can you share a few things please:

I want my pies to look like yours, and you look like you nailed the cheese and sauce amounts.
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: piesofsatan on September 01, 2020, 05:46:23 PM
BTW Satan - can you share a few things please:
  • Can you give me an idea of the diameter of pizza you are making, with regard to how much sauce?
  • Also - how much cheese?
  • You are baking on a stone or steel - yes?

I want my pies to look like yours, and you look like you nailed the cheese and sauce amounts.

Oh to be clear the last round pie pic is a picture of a Roebling Pizza pie, not mine, I wish!!

These are usually 14-15" pies as my peel cant handle any bigger, I just ordered a new one that is 16x18 so in theory i'll be able to launch a 16" pie onto my 16" inch round baking steel though it'll be risky, haha.

The sauce and cheese questions will be harder to answer. The most recent pies I posted I was using a spouted measuring cup, thanks to a tip from Norma, and doing her method of putting some cheese down on the dough, then spiral the sauce with the measuring cup, then more cheese on top. I eyeballed both of the last two pies. I'll weigh it all out next time and let you know!

And yes, as I mentioned I'm using a steel!
-
And also, just for anyone reading or wondering, haha, my username comes from my favorite song by a 70's punk band from Cleveland called The Pagans, their song was called Eyes of Satan, which is the handle I use for everything else, but considering the nature of this forum PiesOfSatan seemed more fitting ;)
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: hammettjr on September 01, 2020, 07:48:15 PM
The Sicilian looks really good. Did you make any knots to go with it?  :chef:

Edit: also, call Sansone before you go to tell them what you want. They may need to run over to the warehouse to get it as the new retail shop has limited selection.
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: Peter B on September 02, 2020, 08:05:09 AM
And also, just for anyone reading or wondering, haha, my username comes from my favorite song by a 70's punk band from Cleveland called The Pagans, their song was called Eyes of Satan, which is the handle I use for everything else, but considering the nature of this forum PiesOfSatan seemed more fitting ;)

Well played!
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: radstronomical on September 02, 2020, 10:05:24 AM
Now that I think of it - I saw a video where Marc Ioconno (from Lucali) walked someone through making a home version of his pie.  I could have sworn that he said to use Del Monte tomato sauce with some seasonings and cook it for a long time.  I am open to trying that, but I suspect it is not what I am looking for.  Then again - I have never eaten at Lucali, so maybe if I did, I would want to rethink everything.   ???

In a video on him making pizza in his shop (the one from Food Skills here: https://youtu.be/BSHh0MmJM1U?t=300), he says he uses fresh tomatoes that he cooks for four hours. I could have sworn he also said "our own" tomatoes in some video I saw, but can't find that and doesn't seem sustainable at a little shop in brooklyn.
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: Peter B on September 02, 2020, 11:39:29 AM
Here is the video I was referring to.  They start to talk sauce around the 5 minute mark.  There is also the dough and sauce recipe in the description.  I think I would try the sauce at some point to see if I like it.  I kinda think I prefer the uncooked variety, but how bad could it be, right?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0t-TxE64HjA

Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: RHawthorne on September 02, 2020, 02:48:50 PM
In a video on him making pizza in his shop (the one from Food Skills here: https://youtu.be/BSHh0MmJM1U?t=300), he says he uses fresh tomatoes that he cooks for four hours. I could have sworn he also said "our own" tomatoes in some video I saw, but can't find that and doesn't seem sustainable at a little shop in brooklyn.
I'm thinking he probably does what Dom DeMarco is known to do, which is to use some canned tomato product as the base, and combine that with some fresh cooked tomatoes. I don't know what he means by "our own" tomatoes, because I've certainly never seen a video which shows tomatoes being grown on his property, so he probably just means tomatoes that he sources somewhere as close to home as possible. But who knows? "Our own" may as well mean tomatoes that he owns, no matter where they come from.
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: radstronomical on September 02, 2020, 03:49:05 PM
I think I would try the sauce at some point to see if I like it.  I kinda think I prefer the uncooked variety, but how bad could it be, right?

Yeah, I flip flop between fresh and cooked based on what i'm feeling and what i want out of the pie. I don't love onion in there, but I don't cook for 4 hours so maybe they just dissolve by then. I like to lightly brown some garlic and red pepper flakes, then toss in the tomatoes, salt, a little bit of sugar and basil or oregano depending on the pie and let it simmer for 15-20 minutes. Really good for a more ny style pie or one with stronger flavors on top.
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: Peter B on September 03, 2020, 08:51:18 AM
The sauce and cheese questions will be harder to answer. The most recent pies I posted I was using a spouted measuring cup, thanks to a tip from Norma, and doing her method of putting some cheese down on the dough, then spiral the sauce with the measuring cup, then more cheese on top. I eyeballed both of the last two pies. I'll weigh it all out next time and let you know!

BTW - you referred to Norma in a way that it felt like that is someone I should know.  Well - I stumbled on this completely coincidentally last night.  Now I see why I should probably know that name a little better.  The relevant portion starts around 18:40.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDxvUp4ZZv0
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: piesofsatan on September 03, 2020, 11:09:52 AM
BTW - you referred to Norma in a way that it felt like that is someone I should know.  Well - I stumbled on this completely coincidentally last night.  Now I see why I should probably know that name a little better.  The relevant portion starts around 18:40.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDxvUp4ZZv0

Yep exactly, and she posts here! Did you hear her give the forum a shout out? ;)
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: piesofsatan on September 03, 2020, 11:12:35 AM
The Sicilian looks really good. Did you make any knots to go with it?  :chef:

Edit: also, call Sansone before you go to tell them what you want. They may need to run over to the warehouse to get it as the new retail shop has limited selection.

Thank you !! You know, I haven’t made knots since before I had a steel, I should give it another go!

And good call about Sansone, will do - thanks again!
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: Peter B on September 03, 2020, 11:23:11 AM
Yep exactly, and she posts here! Did you hear her give the forum a shout out? ;)

Haha - you bet! 

I know I saw this video a few years ago, but I have been watching this series again since I started working on my pizza-making again.  My wife asked me the other day how I heard about this forum, and I wasn't sure.  My guess was that it is mentioned in The Pizza Bible.  But having re-watched this video, it is possible that was my source.

And I stumbled on this to help with the cheese / sauce question from above.  This is coincidentally posted by Norma:
https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,14822.msg147190.html#msg147190
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: piesofsatan on September 14, 2020, 11:31:36 PM
Tonight's attempt:

Made a 16" pie. Dough based on the Scarr's clone on this forum once again. Jersey Fresh Crushed, WM + PS mix (Cherry Valley / Galbani), Lioni Fresh Mozz, Fresh grated parm to finish. Came out looking pretty great to me. Think I maybe under-sauced this one. Still struggling with flavor overall.

I still have been dealing with WM / PS Mozz that is either Biazzo, Galbani, or various store brands as it is usually all I can find. I have used Bianco DiNapoli and Jersey Fresh for my sauce now and both have been great - maybe not exactly where I want the flavor to be but close enough that I don't think my sauce is the issue. My question to the pros here is this - I still haven't gotten my hands on Grande brand Mozz - could this truly be the missing link? I keep finding myself disappointed with the cheese flavor, though I've seen multiple people on the forum mention the brands I've used and have seemed to be okay with it. I need to bite the bullet and get out to Sansone's to grab some Grande but just haven't gotten around to it. Will I notice a big difference you think? Any guidance would be much appreciated.

All told, I've only been making my own dough from scratch since this July after years of using pre-purchased pizza joint dough, and the progress is visible, which is what keeps me going, and tonights looked great to me, though in my last few attempts the flavor keeps discouraging me.
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: Peter B on September 15, 2020, 08:19:50 AM
That does look good - especially sliced up!

I tried Grande once and I thought it was spot on for what I was looking for.  Having said that - more recently, we picked up some on our way back from a road trip.  It sat out (uncooled) for 2 hours.  When I went to use it, I didn't think it was that great.  I am chalking it up to my mishandling, because I had such a positive experience before.  Lately, I have been using the WMLM Mozz from Trader Joe's and I think it has been fine.  I also know a source for the deli size brick of Polly-o, but I just have not tried it yet.

Some things to try to goose the flavor just a tad: sprinkle a little fine salt on the pizza when it comes out, maybe try a drizzle of olive oil (small drizzle), I make a habit of grating some hard cheese over the sauce before I spread the mozz and some more after I pull from the oven.  To me - I think the cheese issue I had was an umami issue and those things were my attempts to address.  Lately - I have just been doing the grated hard cheese before and after bake.  I have not found a need for the salt, but I have been cutting down on my salt intake over the months and my taste buds may just be readjusting.

I would think you could pretty easily find the Polly-o Deli style brick somewhere that would cut a pound chunk for you.  If a Trader Joe's is within reach, I'd suggest that too. 
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: RHawthorne on September 15, 2020, 08:18:40 PM

I would think you could pretty easily find the Polly-o Deli style brick somewhere that would cut a pound chunk for you.  If a Trader Joe's is within reach, I'd suggest that too.
I also like Trader Joe's mozzarella pretty well, although it's not quite up there with the best I've used. And I don't know what it is about their other cheeses, but I find them to be really hit or miss. It seems like if it costs $6/lb or more, it's usually pretty good, but below that cost, it's a gamble. I've had a few varieties of their less expensive cheeses that I found to be very lackluster. However, another thing they carry that's totally killer, IMO, is their California plum tomatoes. Unfortunately, I haven't seen them on the shelf for a while, but they only cost something like $1.79 a can, and they're honestly among the best I've used for pizza sauce. I recommend them highly.
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: Peter B on September 16, 2020, 07:39:02 AM
I also like Trader Joe's mozzarella pretty well, although it's not quite up there with the best I've used. And I don't know what it is about their other cheeses, but I find them to be really hit or miss. It seems like if it costs $6/lb or more, it's usually pretty good, but below that cost, it's a gamble. I've had a few varieties of their less expensive cheeses that I found to be very lackluster. However, another thing they carry that's totally killer, IMO, is their California plum tomatoes. Unfortunately, I haven't seen them on the shelf for a while, but they only cost something like $1.79 a can, and they're honestly among the best I've used for pizza sauce. I recommend them highly.

Thanks for the tip on the CA plum tomatoes!  I foresee trying lots of different tomatoes in the coming months, and I would love it if a Trader Joe's product ended up working well.

Funny but I don't think I have ever seen a 'cheap' cheese at TJ's, but maybe those are just the ones I never even check.  Unexpected Cheddar is awesome.  I think the best cheddar I ever had is Beecher's (which is in Seattle and if you can get their frozen Mac and Cheese somewhere - GET IT), and I think the Unexpected Cheddar is not too far off.  For their WMLM Mozz, I would agree - it is not absolutely top shelf, but I think it is much better than average.  When I compare to what I checked the regular grocery stores here for (generally finding part skim), having the TJs at my disposal is always the safe option.   :chef:
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: RHawthorne on September 16, 2020, 09:53:45 PM

Funny but I don't think I have ever seen a 'cheap' cheese at TJ's, but maybe those are just the ones I never even check.
I guess I should say "cheap compared to regular grocery store cheeses", but even that is not always true. When you can get a full pound block of decent quality mozzarella cheese for $4/lb or less, that's a good thing, but it's not necessarily the norm when you take into account all the different types of stores that carry cheese.  Anyway, 18 years ago, I worked at a beer/wine/fine foods store for a few months, and I got really spoiled trying all kinds of imported and artisan cheeses and learning about them. Having had that experience, and being (I guess I have to admit) a bit of a 'cheese snob', I know what a lot of cheese varieties are supposed to taste like, and so when I see a variety of cheese that normally sells for something like $15/lb or more, priced at $6/lb or less (like Comte or Gouda or Gruyere, for example), let's just say I'm extremely skeptical, and I cannot help comparing it to other cheeses that are in those higher price ranges. And I do not spare the rod on my critiques just because a particular cheese happens to be relatively cheap. I judge by how it should taste, regardless of what price it's at. I have tried several varieties of TJ's cheese in the last couple of years since they opened up a store in my town, and there have definitely been some that have fallen short of the mark on flavor, by my standards, whether you might consider them 'cheap' or not.
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: quietdesperation on September 21, 2020, 02:04:04 AM
hey, that looks like a good start! here are some ideas:
- to my eye, you’re over-baking your pies. the crust looks a little too dark and the cheese is oiling off. what’s your baking temp and time? pls post a pic of the undercrust of a slice.
- very few ny shops cook their sauce. try and find some scalfani crushed tomatoes, dump into a mesh sieve, drain well and then push the tomatoes through the sieve with the back of a wooden spoon into a bowl. at the end of the process, the sieve will have tomato skin and seeds which can be discarded, the bowl will contain a thin sauce. taste the sauce and add a dash of oregano and a pinch of salt. taste again and then use the sauce in the bake. from there you can vary the oregano/salt and try other ingredients like grated hard cheese, olive oil and sugar. we have a long thread around ny sauce: https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=48058.0
- are you weighing your ingredients including sauce and cheese? how much are you using?
- on the grande, your best bet is to ask pizza shops to sell you some. i pay $5 a pound from my local shop.

good luck!
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: radstronomical on September 21, 2020, 10:49:15 AM
- on the grande, your best bet is to ask pizza shops to sell you some. i pay $5 a pound from my local shop.

Wow, I love this idea. Going hunting this friday.
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: quietdesperation on September 21, 2020, 11:32:56 AM
suggest you call first to see who has grande, if they'll sell you some and the price. I worked through about 7 places in fl before I found someone that had it. My experience has been just about everyone is willing to sell mozz. In the end, it works out to less $ than our local grocery store mozz. See if anyone has east coast blend, that's my favorite.
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: piesofsatan on September 28, 2020, 02:26:23 PM
Had a fairly successful pizza night last night!

Did a variation of the Baking Steel 72 hour dough (https://www.bakingsteel.com/blog/72-hour-pizza-dough) though I did 96 hours total, and added 1% sugar, 1% oil. I was a little worried as I've never gone as high as 70% hydration before, and I did have some snags opening the balls - a hole in pie #2, and $4, happened transferring from screen to steel, which hasn't happened to me before. Here was my workflow for four 16" balls:

Flour (100%):    1041.12 g  |  36.72 oz | 2.3 lbs
Water (70%):    728.78 g  |  25.71 oz | 1.61 lbs
IDY (.2%):    2.08 g | 0.07 oz | 0 lbs | 0.69 tsp | 0.23 tbsp
Salt (3%):    31.23 g | 1.1 oz | 0.07 lbs | 5.6 tsp | 1.87 tbsp
Oil (1%):    10.41 g | 0.37 oz | 0.02 lbs | 2.31 tsp | 0.77 tbsp
Sugar (1%):    10.41 g | 0.37 oz | 0.02 lbs | 2.61 tsp | 0.87 tbsp
Total (175.2%):   1824.03 g | 64.34 oz | 4.02 lbs | TF = 0.08
Single Ball:   456.01 g | 16.08 oz | 1.01 lbs

I was still very happy with how these came out, the dough had the flavor I've been looking for this entire time, I just never really had the patience to wait the 96 hours previously, tasted just like a crust from a good nyc shop.

My sauce was Sclafani crushed through a food mill with some salt, oregano, garlic powder, pepper and EVOO. My first time using Sclafani and I was pretty happy with the flavor, but will experiment with different spice amounts next time, maybe some onion powder in the mix? Dash of sugar? We'll see.

Cheese was Boar's Head WM Mozz, found it for 6 dollars a pound and hadn't used it before so figured i'd give it a shot! Really good flavor, best out of everything I've tried thus far, but still need to get me some Grande! Oh also used some fresh mozz on the pies too. Couple pies finished with Parm, couple with Romano.

I'm still eyeballing for sauce and cheese application, I know I probably should measure it out but I just do what looks right. Second and fourth pies had my favorite flavors which funnily enough were the two with the holes in 'em.

Used a proper screen for the first time to achieve a full 16" pie on my 16" round baking steel. Still want to find a mesh one but no leads yet. Also should probably just get a 16x20" steel to be able to launch 16" pies directly on the steel, but cant seem to find one of those either. Cooked at 510F for 6+ mins. Middle rack.

Can't wait for the next round. Feel like I'm finally getting closer to where I want my pies to be!
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: Peter B on September 28, 2020, 02:55:52 PM
Damn - those looks great!

Where did you get your round steel and do you know the thickness?
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: piesofsatan on September 28, 2020, 03:07:45 PM
Damn - those looks great!

Where did you get your round steel and do you know the thickness?

Thanks! Got this one - https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01MA356TX/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o08_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1
1/4inch thick!
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: nyMike on September 28, 2020, 06:58:56 PM
I really need to upgrade to a steel from a stone,

those are some nice looking pies.

Are you hand mixing or using a stand mixer?
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: jvp123 on September 28, 2020, 08:02:31 PM
Had a fairly successful pizza night last night!


Very nice pies! :chef:   
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: piesofsatan on October 06, 2020, 12:20:58 AM
This was the one. Tonight was the closest I’ve gotten so far to what I grew up with in Valley Stream & Queens. Made me smile a lot.

Dough is Chris Graff’s from this forum as I just got my hands on some LDM and the dough came out great, flavor was incredible for a same-day dough (5hr RT ferment here), imagine its the LDM? Sauce was Bianco DiNapoli Crushed Tomatoes with some salt, oregano, granulated garlic, EVOO, pepper and one basil leaf. WM LM Mozzarella (Wegmans brand) + got my hands on some fresh Buffalo mozz to crumble on & finished with some parmigiano reggiano post-bake. 16 or 17” Baked at 510F on a Baking Steel for 4-5 mins on a screen + 2 minutes directly on steel.

STILL have not gotten out to Sansone to grab some Grande, but this was so good. My roommates and friends have witnessed me time and time again take a pie out of the oven excitedly, and then bite into a slice only to be disappointed in the flavor, they all enjoyed every one I've made thus far and have told me I'm crazy multiple times, but I'm sure many here can understand the frustration of trying to hit that specific NYC taste. I was always under-saucing and over-cheesing, and over-baking, and I feel like I finally am starting to hit the sweet spot. Can't wait to do another round. Think i'll do Chris' dough again next time.

Last week I used Sclafani, does anyone prefer Sclafani to Bianco DiNapoli? I think I might honestly - is that a strange opinion?

Having only started doing this for real in July of this year, I'm very proud of this bake!

Thanks as always for all the encouragement and tips along the way!
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: Peter B on October 06, 2020, 08:09:35 AM
Last week I used Sclafani, does anyone prefer Sclafani to Bianco DiNapoli? I think I might honestly - is that a strange opinion?

So I figured out that the Don Pepino I mentioned uses "Jersey Fresh" tomatoes.  My theory as to why I liked it so much is because the NJ pizza places I went to used those tomatoes as well - since it would be a local product for them.  I saw someone mention on this board that they thought "Jersey Fresh" were the best American tomatoes.  I remember that Pizzeria Beddia (sp?) uses that as well, and has a really good reputation in Philly.  Anyway - when I was doing some research, I found that Scalfani is a sister product to Don Pepino.  So no - I don't think it would be unusual to prefer it.  In fact, I want to get my sister to stop by and pick up some cans for me the next time we plan to get together.

Again - your pies looks awesome.  Funny, as I am right there with you re: being a perfectionist / disappointed in something you did and having others around you look at that response to your work as weird.  The family and I went to a sort of famous wood fired pizza place near here for my birthday, and both my wife and I thought my pizza was better - even though I am always critical of something in my own creations.

I started taking more notes and measuring more things to help me refine.  I used the toppings chart from this board as a starting point, and am making revisions as I go.  I figured I could use the "Pie of the day" board to post my pics and jot down my notes (how much of this and that I used, what went wrong, what went right, what I tried to do differently) so I could search them later.

You are lucky to have some people to be able to feed.  I don't have many people right now, as we just moved here maybe six months ago and it is super hard to make friends because of the covids.  But getting the chance to make more and more and not have to eat ALL of it, not to mention getting feedback from folks, is really helpful in my mind.

Oh and with regard to Grande, I saw 5 pound bags of pre-shredded East Coast blend at a Gordon Food Service store here the other day.  I never heard of that store before moving here, but if you have that sort of place, give them a try.
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: Pete-zza on October 10, 2020, 07:17:54 PM
This was the one. Tonight was the closest I’ve gotten so far to what I grew up with in Valley Stream & Queens. Made me smile a lot.
piesofsatan,

Maybe you have not seen the new thread at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=65664.msg642396#msg642396 but I think your latest pizza would fit in well with the other posts in that thread, so you might consider putting a photo and related details in that thread also so that other members can see what a nice a job you did.

Peter
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: piesofsatan on October 11, 2020, 04:21:42 PM
piesofsatan,

Maybe you have not seen the new thread at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=65664.msg642396#msg642396 but I think your latest pizza would fit in well with the other posts in that thread, so you might consider putting a photo and related details in that thread also so that other members can see what a nice a job you did.

Peter

Thanks for the tip and kind words!! Done :)
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: hammettjr on October 11, 2020, 08:53:46 PM
I only tried Bianco a couple times, but wasn't thrilled with it. If you get out to Sansone, make sure you get some cans of Stanislaus (Alta Cucina and/or 7/11).

Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: piesofsatan on October 12, 2020, 04:05:32 PM
I only tried Bianco a couple times, but wasn't thrilled with it. If you get out to Sansone, make sure you get some cans of Stanislaus (Alta Cucina and/or 7/11).

They taste great honestly, maybe the Crushed can I used was a bit off, because using one of their WP cans I remember being much happier. Either way, I am sure that the flavor you and I are both going for as Long Island guys who love Queens pizza would be different that one you can achieve with Bianco DiNapoli, definitely going to try out Stanislaus tomatoes once I get to Sansone, was even thinking of ordering one of the big cans off of Amazon. Would you say that 7/11 / Alta are the way to go over something like Tomato Magic? Or are they all pretty similar?
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: hammettjr on October 12, 2020, 04:32:56 PM
...Would you say that 7/11 / Alta are the way to go over something like Tomato Magic? Or are they all pretty similar?

Tomato Magic and 7/11 are very similar, but 7/11 has some skin left in it. Alta is whole peeled, so it's rather different from the crushed varieties.

Depends on personal preference and what you're after. But for me, the sauce needs to be really thin and wet, which requires whole peeled.

Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: kenjialt on October 17, 2020, 04:20:11 PM

All were older posts through searches i've done when researching, but it seemed like people thought that he'd borrowed a lot of specific info from this forum's users for his recipes without any credit. I have enjoyed watching Kenji's videos, and like I said - watching/reading his recipes has made me more confident in doing this, and ultimately led me here so can't be all bad.


Heya - this is my first time back on here in a long time, but someone mentioned to me on Instagram that some folks here had accused me of stealing recipes or something without giving credit, so I searched and found this.

Can you point me to where people have made that claim? Because, well, it's not true. I don't have anything against the forum, but I personally don't spend much time here and never have. I also try to be quite meticulous about crediting people and sources whenever I borrow ideas or elaborate on them. I honestly don't know where this idea could have come from, but I'd be happy to talk with whoever was making those accusations and answer any questions they may have.

Best,
 Kenji
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: RHawthorne on October 17, 2020, 09:22:42 PM
Heya - this is my first time back on here in a long time, but someone mentioned to me on Instagram that some folks here had accused me of stealing recipes or something without giving credit, so I searched and found this.

Can you point me to where people have made that claim? Because, well, it's not true. I don't have anything against the forum, but I personally don't spend much time here and never have. I also try to be quite meticulous about crediting people and sources whenever I borrow ideas or elaborate on them. I honestly don't know where this idea could have come from, but I'd be happy to talk with whoever was making those accusations and answer any questions they may have.

Best,
 Kenji
Not long ago, somebody posted something to the effect of "I know people around here don't seem to like him much" (referring to you), and I questioned them about it, but got no response. I have no idea where that impression is coming from either, but I've only been on this forum for about a year myself, so whatever he was referring to, it was probably quite some time ago, and probably greatly exaggerated. But now that you're here again, don't be a stranger. Don't worry about putting rumors to rest; just contribute. If anybody wants to confront you about any alleged misconduct, they're free to do that, but I doubt that will happen.  We're always happy for good input around here, and I'm sure you can bring it.
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: piesofsatan on October 18, 2020, 04:02:27 PM
Heya - this is my first time back on here in a long time, but someone mentioned to me on Instagram that some folks here had accused me of stealing recipes or something without giving credit, so I searched and found this.

Can you point me to where people have made that claim? Because, well, it's not true. I don't have anything against the forum, but I personally don't spend much time here and never have. I also try to be quite meticulous about crediting people and sources whenever I borrow ideas or elaborate on them. I honestly don't know where this idea could have come from, but I'd be happy to talk with whoever was making those accusations and answer any questions they may have.

Best,
 Kenji

Hi Kenji, I can’t point you to exact posts as they had just come up searches when doing general research on here a while back. What I can tell you is that I do recall the comments being from older posts. I’m sure if you search your name you can find what I was referring to. Me even posting that comment was pointless and I regretted it as soon as I posted it because well, your recipes and videos kickstarted me making pizza to begin with and I appreciate that.
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: kenjialt on October 20, 2020, 04:28:34 PM
Not long ago, somebody posted something to the effect of "I know people around here don't seem to like him much" (referring to you), and I questioned them about it, but got no response. I have no idea where that impression is coming from either, but I've only been on this forum for about a year myself, so whatever he was referring to, it was probably quite some time ago, and probably greatly exaggerated. But now that you're here again, don't be a stranger. Don't worry about putting rumors to rest; just contribute. If anybody wants to confront you about any alleged misconduct, they're free to do that, but I doubt that will happen.  We're always happy for good input around here, and I'm sure you can bring it.

Thanks! I’m super busy working on a wok cookbook now but we still make pizza once a week at my house with my toddler. I’m much more of a seat-of-my-pants type cook at home when I’m not specifically working on a recipe which is why I don’t often visit online forums for niche subjects. I’ll try and drop in more frequently though!

Have a nice day.
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: kenjialt on October 20, 2020, 04:29:37 PM
Hi Kenji, I can’t point you to exact posts as they had just come up searches when doing general research on here a while back. What I can tell you is that I do recall the comments being from older posts. I’m sure if you search your name you can find what I was referring to. Me even posting that comment was pointless and I regretted it as soon as I posted it because well, your recipes and videos kickstarted me making pizza to begin with and I appreciate that.

Got it. I don’t really see the need to go digging up older posts to defend myself now so thanks for letting me know!
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: yarbrough462 on October 27, 2020, 01:47:18 PM
Welcome back Kenji!  Good to see you here.
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: piesofsatan on November 03, 2020, 03:47:58 PM
Hey all!

Haven't posted in a bit but here are some photos of this past Sunday's attempt.

Dough recipe is Chris Graff's from this forum again as it was delicious last time! Adjusted to make 16" pie.

Sauce is Sclafani Crushed through a food mill on the fine plate, with some salt, oregano, sugar, garlic powder and one basil leaf cut up into small pieces.

Cheese is Wegmans WM LM, + some fresh mozz + 20 month aged Parmigiano Reggiano to finish. Used some fresh basil post bake because I've been eating a lot of L'Industrie Pizza lately and feel like I subconsciously tried to make this pie look like theirs, haha.

Was maybe my best attempt yet, tasted great! This was a 5 hour RT dough, and I feel like I can't nail the hand mix, I never know if I've done too much or too little kneading, I definitely get thin spots when opening the doughs, no holes though. Would like to get it more consistent & workable. But that will come with time I'm sure, i've definitely been more focused on cheese and sauce. Having said that I still could improve sauce and STILL unhappy with the cheese though.

Debating placing an order on PenMac or something as it seems like getting out to Long Island to grab some Grande + Alta Cucina is proving harder than I thought. Anyone use them before to have cheese and tomatoes shipped to them?

Anyway, pics below! All told this was delicious and my roommates agreed! 
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: piesofsatan on November 03, 2020, 03:48:44 PM
Also, does image quality always degrade when uploading here? Is there an alternative, or am I doing something wrong?
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: mattspips on November 03, 2020, 08:24:04 PM
Looking great - do you bake on the screen on the steel first and then transfer off the screen directly to the steel or is it screen on steel the whole time?

Hey all!

Haven't posted in a bit but here are some photos of this past Sunday's attempt.

Dough recipe is Chris Graff's from this forum again as it was delicious last time! Adjusted to make 16" pie.

Sauce is Sclafani Crushed through a food mill on the fine plate, with some salt, oregano, sugar, garlic powder and one basil leaf cut up into small pieces.

Cheese is Wegmans WM LM, + some fresh mozz + 20 month aged Parmigiano Reggiano to finish. Used some fresh basil post bake because I've been eating a lot of L'Industrie Pizza lately and feel like I subconsciously tried to make this pie look like theirs, haha.

Was maybe my best attempt yet, tasted great! This was a 5 hour RT dough, and I feel like I can't nail the hand mix, I never know if I've done too much or too little kneading, I definitely get thin spots when opening the doughs, no holes though. Would like to get it more consistent & workable. But that will come with time I'm sure, i've definitely been more focused on cheese and sauce. Having said that I still could improve sauce and STILL unhappy with the cheese though.

Debating placing an order on PenMac or something as it seems like getting out to Long Island to grab some Grande + Alta Cucina is proving harder than I thought. Anyone use them before to have cheese and tomatoes shipped to them?

Anyway, pics below! All told this was delicious and my roommates agreed!
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: piesofsatan on November 04, 2020, 02:14:37 AM
Looking great - do you bake on the screen on the steel first and then transfer off the screen directly to the steel or is it screen on steel the whole time?

Yes exactly! So my issue is that I have a 16” round baking steel, so launching a 16” pizza on to said steel could easily be a nightmare each time, hence the screen. I start on the screen and then about halfway through the bake I transfer directly to the steel. Plus I don’t mind the screen marks as it reminds me of some Queens spots I grew up with :)
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: Wilsonwilsonn on November 06, 2020, 12:14:24 AM
Piesofsatan that last pie looks great man!
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: piesofsatan on November 06, 2020, 11:24:40 AM
Piesofsatan that last pie looks great man!

Thank you so much!!
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: piesofsatan on November 17, 2020, 11:22:01 AM
Alright, two more pies on the books!

Really happy with how consistent I'm getting these. Dough same recipe as last time (Chris Graff's from this forum), Bianco DiNapoli Whole Peeled through a food mill with salt, oregano, & some sugar. Only had some Wegman's PS Mozz + Fresh Mozz and I loved the look but definitely missed the WM flavor. Parmigiano Reggiano to finish.

I would imagine the Grande East Coast Blend is perfect, one day i'll grab some. Is the Trader Joe's WM Mozz close in flavor to Grande? Know alot of people prefer it and that would be much more accessible than getting out to Sansone for me.

Also think I could get the sauce better too, even though it was damn close this time.

510F on Baking Steel, 5 mins on screen, 2-3 mins directly on steel.
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: wb54885 on November 17, 2020, 11:35:36 AM
Pies look really good, but I’m also commending the Veltins/Overholt/Motörhead T-shirt combo in the background on your prior bake. 🤘
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: Jersey Pie Boy on November 17, 2020, 12:36:08 PM
Looks great, Mr. Satan >:D
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: Peter B on November 17, 2020, 12:39:19 PM
How is the taste / texture?

I am contemplating asking the chefs of some of the better looking pies to help me with EVERY SINGLE STEP to get mine to improve.  Your pies are some of the examples.
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: billg on November 18, 2020, 09:17:19 PM
Awesome looking Pies!!!!!!  What is your dough formula?
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: piesofsatan on November 27, 2020, 03:01:57 PM
Awesome looking Pies!!!!!!  What is your dough formula?

Chris Graff’s! It’s in this NY forum just look for Chris Craff’s NY Style Pizza thread.
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: piesofsatan on November 27, 2020, 03:02:49 PM
Pies look really good, but I’m also commending the Veltins/Overholt/Motörhead T-shirt combo in the background on your prior bake. 🤘

🤘🏻🤘🏻🤘🏻🤘🏻
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: piesofsatan on November 27, 2020, 03:07:02 PM
Finally got out to Sansone!!

Got some All Trumps coming in the mail too. This week should be interesting.

Anyone want to let me know how much oil / salt / oregano / garlic. Etc they’d use in these 6lb cans? Gonna mess with the Alta Cucina first through a food mill on the fine plate. Just don’t want to under spice or over spice! Any guidance would be appreciated :)
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: hammettjr on November 27, 2020, 03:53:14 PM
Finally got out to Sansone!!

Got some All Trumps coming in the mail too. This week should be interesting.

Anyone want to let me know how much oil / salt / oregano / garlic. Etc they’d use in these 6lb cans? Gonna mess with the Alta Cucina first through a food mill on the fine plate. Just don’t want to under spice or over spice! Any guidance would be appreciated :)

Awesome! I freeze the tomato in individual portions, which gives me the option to change the spices each bake (and ensures I dont ruin an entire can).


Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: RHawthorne on November 28, 2020, 10:09:47 AM
Finally got out to Sansone!!

Got some All Trumps coming in the mail too. This week should be interesting.

Anyone want to let me know how much oil / salt / oregano / garlic. Etc they’d use in these 6lb cans? Gonna mess with the Alta Cucina first through a food mill on the fine plate. Just don’t want to under spice or over spice! Any guidance would be appreciated :)
My standard additions to any #10 can of tomato product are 1 clove of crushed garlic, 1 tsp of sea salt, and 1 tsp of dried oregano. That's my preferred starter seasoning blend, and if I think it needs anything more, I go from there, but I rarely ever do. I like to keep my seasoning minimal, and let the quality of the tomatoes do the talking. I recall the Alta Cucina tomatoes being just fine with that seasoning. But some people also like to add some black pepper or crushed red pepper flakes, too. I occasionally add a dash of black pepper myself.
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: corkd on November 30, 2020, 08:44:14 AM
Your pies look awesome. Focusing on one thing & doing it well. I love where your profile says “not too hot boss”... nothing so aggravating as when they reheat your slice so much it burns the s#*t out of your mouth.
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: piesofsatan on December 05, 2020, 09:50:59 PM
Alright! First two pies using All Trumps flour, Grande cheese and Stanislaus Tomatoes on the books!

...of course I over-seasoned the sauce  :-D

It's okay, I took hammettjr's advice and portioned out the entire #10 can, so not a total loss but felt like an idiot being so excited to use this can of 711 and then making a sauce I was unhappy with, haha, I was just just overthinking it perhaps.. Especially when they tasted so good right out of the can. I think next time I will hit it with some salt, and maybe and a pinch of oregano and thats it and go from there. Can't seem to get the flavor I'm looking for attempt after attempt, but that seems to be a common issue here, haha.

Anyway, the pies were some of the most beautiful looking ones i've made to date. The Grande East Coast Blend was great, full of flavor, though I'm curious to try just the WM alone. Dough was Chris Graff's recipe again, can't get enough of it. Bumped up my oven to 550 this time and I think I might drop back down to 510-520F next time, I felt like I got a better bake with the slightly lower heat and slightly longer cook time. 3 mins on screen, 3 mins directly on steel.

Another attempt down. Thanks for reading!

Side note- I went to Philomena's last night for the second time and the slices blew me away - went back in and got a third after my initial two. I would kill to make a pie that good. God. So much flavor.
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: scott r on December 06, 2020, 09:22:53 AM
this looks absolutely incredible!
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: hammettjr on December 06, 2020, 09:58:03 AM
this looks absolutely incredible!

 ^^^ killer pie, congrats!

Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: chrisgraff on December 06, 2020, 04:07:57 PM
Killer pie!
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: billg on December 07, 2020, 09:50:27 PM
That pie is beautiful.  I tried to find the formula but couldn't for some reason.  Would you mind sharing the formula and fermentation times for the last pie.  Loved the looks of that!!!!!
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: piesofsatan on December 08, 2020, 02:54:41 PM
this looks absolutely incredible!


^^^ killer pie, congrats!


Killer pie!

Thank you all!! Means a lot coming from you guys!

That pie is beautiful.  I tried to find the formula but couldn't for some reason.  Would you mind sharing the formula and fermentation times for the last pie.  Loved the looks of that!!!!!

Yes of course - below is the Chris Graff recipe directly from his post!
(and a link to the thread itself - https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=59406.0 )

Hi folks! I thought I'd share the culimination of 12 years of learning from this forum. Here's "Chris Graff's NYC style for the home oven"

**Dough for three pizzas** 

Percentage | Ingredient                         | Weight
-------------|------------------------------- |----------
100.00%   | Flour (All Trumps                | 624.00g
 60.00%    | Water (bottled, cold)           | 374.40g
  3.00%     | Olive oil                             |   18.72g
  2.50%     | sea salt (fine)                     |   15.60g
  2.00%     | Low diastatic malt               |   12.48g
  1.00%     | sugar                                 |     6.24g
  0.28%     | instant yeast                       |     1.75g
 
 

1. Stir to combine all of the water and 1/4 of the flour 
2. Wait 10 minutes 
3. Add/stir malt, sugar, yeast 
4. Wait 10 minutes   
5. Add/stir salt & oil 
6. Gradually work as much as remaining flour in to the dough as it will take. As a rule, don't force flour into the dough. With high gluten flour, I usually have 50g or so left over. 
7. Dump the dough on a floured counter, cover with the bowl, and wait 20 minutes. 
8. Knead for a couple minutes until the dough feels smooth, not tacky. 
9. If dough is still tacky, cover and wait another 10 minutes, knead another another minute or two. 
10. Divide dough, form in to balls, and place into lightly oiled containers.

For a standard home oven, each dough ball should weigh between 300-350g, which translates to a 13 to 14 inch pizza.
 

In a warm room (~80°F), this dough should be ready to bake in 3 hours.

Bake on steel @ 510ºF (convection) for 5-6 minutes.
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: piesofsatan on December 08, 2020, 03:17:48 PM

Thank you all!! Means a lot coming from you guys!

Yes of course - below is the Chris Graff recipe directly from his post!
(and a link to the thread itself - https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=59406.0 )

Also I should mention I use his dough formula to make two 16" pies instead of three 14"s.
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: billg on December 08, 2020, 05:40:46 PM
Thank you!!!!!
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: PizzaSean on December 11, 2020, 04:35:37 AM
Wow those recent pics look absolutely incredible. I wish I had that pie right now!
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: chrisgraff on December 11, 2020, 02:30:36 PM

Thank you all!! Means a lot coming from you guys!

Yes of course - below is the Chris Graff recipe directly from his post!
(and a link to the thread itself - https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=59406.0 )

If you have time, increase the duration of the autolyze step... 20 to 40 minutes? You might even be able to let it go longer. Tartine bakery uses a 2hr poolish (for bread).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCu3dQj4dl0&t=10m33s
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: Peter B on December 11, 2020, 07:54:26 PM
If you have time, increase the duration of the autolyze step... 20 to 40 minutes? You might even be able to let it go longer. Tartine bakery uses a 2hr poolish (for bread).

Autolyze would be step 2 from the procedure noted a few posts above?  Or would it be step 4 or 7?
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: chrisgraff on December 14, 2020, 01:36:52 AM
Autolyze would be step 2 from the procedure noted a few posts above?  Or would it be step 4 or 7?

Step 2 from above
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: Peter B on December 21, 2020, 11:00:48 PM
3 mins on screen, 3 mins directly on steel.

Strange question, but is your steel big enough to support the size pie you are making from raw?  My steel is too small for a 16" pie (14"x16"), so I have been starting on a disc and moving to the steel, like you.  I had been doing 5 minutes on the disc, and last week bumped it down to 4 minutes without any disasters.  I think I would like to get the pie on the steel and under the broiler even sooner, but I am not sure if 3 minutes would be enough to get some structure underneath so that the edges don't collapse where unsupported by the slightly small steel.
So if your steel is also slightly small and you are getting away with 3 minutes, I will give it a shot as well.
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: piesofsatan on December 22, 2020, 11:30:25 AM
Strange question, but is your steel big enough to support the size pie you are making from raw?  My steel is too small for a 16" pie (14"x16"), so I have been starting on a disc and moving to the steel, like you.  I had been doing 5 minutes on the disc, and last week bumped it down to 4 minutes without any disasters.  I think I would like to get the pie on the steel and under the broiler even sooner, but I am not sure if 3 minutes would be enough to get some structure underneath so that the edges don't collapse where unsupported by the slightly small steel.
So if your steel is also slightly small and you are getting away with 3 minutes, I will give it a shot as well.

My steel is a round one and 16" in diameter so thats how i get away with pulling the screen earlier. I've had to wait 4 minutes before before it was set enough to transfer to steel. Since you're using a smaller steel maybe just keep it around 4 minutes!
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: piesofsatan on December 22, 2020, 12:07:57 PM
Alright, here's my last few pies over the last few weeks!

First up we got a regular pie, same recipe as before. This one was great, been messing around with my sauce a lot more since and I think i'll try it on the regular pie next time. Really can't wait to run out of east coast blend so I can pick up a loaf of grande whole milk, think I will like that better though the ECB is still pretty great! Still rocking Chris Graff's dough recipe, though I had this one in the fridge for 72 hours, flavor was pretty nuts but I might take it down to somewhere between 24 and 48 as it was pretty delicate at 72 and I got a lot of thin spots. We'll see! Finished my pies with a few squirts of the Frankie's 457 Olive Oil and the flavor was great, will do that more often.

The following week I decided to try my hand at a Grandma Pie, I used to make them all the time with dough from a pizza place but this was the first time using my own. Same dough recipe I've been using for my round pies. 11x17 very old, well seasoned sheet tray. This time I slowly cooked the sauce on the lowest heat, not even really a simmer, for about 15-25 minutes with some grated garlic, oregano, and salt + 1tbsp butter then let it come down to room temperature. Tasted really good!! The pepperoni was Applewood Farms or whatever, all I could find at the store in a pinch, nothing to write home about but it did the job. Cooked in the tray on top of my steel at 550F until it looked done (I didn't time it, maybe 9-10 mins?). Was good! I probably could've used a bit more sauce but came out nicely nonetheless. This was a kind of lazy day pie.

Which leads me to this week! I forgot I made two doughs the day of the Grandma pie and had one in the fridge for upwards of 112 hours! Figured the easiest thing to do was bust out my detroit pan and do ANOTHER square pie for a lazy Monday. This dough was a pain in the ass to stretch, took forever to get it into all four corners but it happened, albeit unevenly, and I got a HUGE bubble in the middle, AND I overcooked it a bit, AND it just looks a little sloppy, but you know what? It was delicious!! I've always been a proponent of char being "flavor" and not "burnt" so I didn't mind the extra doneness. But the big standout besides the lovely long fermented dough flavor was the SAUCE. After reading about it being done before I took half of what I was going to use and cooked it slow and low for about 20 mins with garlic, salt, oregano, butter, and then let it slightly cool before adding back to the other half of raw tomatoes and stirred it and shook it up and it was really good. Everyone in the house who had a slice commented on the sauce immediately. I think i'll stick with this one and see how it fares on a round pie though I'll feel weird using a semi-cooked sauce for a regular pie, but I have to check.

Thanks for reading as always  :pizza:
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: Peter B on December 22, 2020, 01:19:29 PM
My steel is a round one and 16" in diameter so thats how i get away with pulling the screen earlier. I've had to wait 4 minutes before before it was set enough to transfer to steel. Since you're using a smaller steel maybe just keep it around 4 minutes!

Thanks - will do.  I am going to add a little LDM, which I think will help.  Maybe what I will do is turn the oven off at 3 minutes (or 3:30) and turn the broiler on.  Being an electric oven, it takes a few seconds for the top element to fire up, so maybe I can use that time to my advantage and have that be the time that I am working on transferring from disc to steel.  I did take your tip of using a slightly lower oven temp than maxing it out at 550.  This seems to give the advantage of letting me preheat the oven at a given temp, but then still having the ability to increase the temp, just as I am inserting the pie.  This way - I know the bottom element will be on. 

Once again - your pies look gorgeous.  To clarify - your second pie (the half cheese/half pepp Sicilian / Grandma) is also the same dough recipe as your round?  Do you par-bake those first?

As an FYI - I made a flavor breakthrough the other day on my round pie.  I feel like it is basically where I want it to be (wasn't sure I would ever be able to say that) for sauce/cheese, and I think I am in striking distance with the crust.  I am going to refine my recipe a few more times to make sure I have it nailed down.  Once I do, I would like to work on aesthetics a bit.  This is where I think I am going to ask for your help.  I am going to want to pick your brain for some details on dressing / baking the pie.  HammetJr as well - his pies look different from yours, but they also seem to look perfect.
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: hammettjr on December 22, 2020, 10:23:52 PM
Those pies all look terrific!!

Looking forward to hearing your thoughts when you try the sauce on the round pie.
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: piesofsatan on January 08, 2021, 03:26:22 PM
First pies of the new year!

Changed things up a bit and used TxCraig's NY dough formulation after reading the thread about user Novawaly's bubble problems using it, but Re-reading Craig's thread and admiring the photos made me want to try it out!

The crispiness achieved using this formula was great. I made two pies, I had trouble opening the first ball and eventually tore a hole in it transferring from screen to steel mid-bake. Still was delicious - though I'm only posting the second pie photos here ;). Second ball opened beautifully and was probably the most even stretch i've gotten thus far.

4 mins on screen, 2-3 mins on steel. I think I got the oven up to nearly 600 degrees, the thermometer I have hanging in my oven only goes to 550 and it was "off the charts". Need to get an IR Thermometer to see exact steel temp soon.

Used up the last of my Grande East Coast Blend, as well as the last of my 711 tomatoes on this pie.

The sauce I made this time was maybe a bit over seasoned and I don't think I like the method of slow cooking half the sauce (as I explained earlier) for regular pies. It still worked and was good but I'm really excited to crack open the can of Alta Cucina I have on deck and start again - want to try just salt and a touch of EVOO next time and then hit the pie with oregano post-bake and see how I like it. Feel like I'm maybe just doing TOO much and need to let the nice tomatoes sing on their own!

Pepperoni was some leftovers I had from recent bakes, not very good but wanted to use it up. Will grab some Rosa Grande next time I hit Sansone to re-up on my cheese, which will be Grande Whole Milk Mozz this time instead of ECB. Curious to see if I notice much of a difference.

Anyway, it was great. I'm hitting a sort of level plane now where pies are coming out uniform and taste a little better each time but there's always something missing, and I'm not getting discouraged but need to desperately crack this code and I think the code is the sauce.

Some cool news though - a good friend who works at a metal shop is making me a custom 3/4" steel to fit the exact dimensions of my oven rack which will ideally eliminate my need for any sort of screen and i'll be launching pies with no worries of overshooting this round 16" steel I have now. Very excited about that. Pic unfinished steel attached.
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: piesofsatan on January 09, 2021, 12:35:08 PM
Saved myself a trip to Sansone by asking nicely at a local spot :)

15 bucks!
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: hammettjr on January 09, 2021, 12:42:14 PM
Saved myself a trip to Sansone by asking nicely at a local spot :)

15 bucks!

Wow! That's amazing, easy and great price!

Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: 02ebz06 on January 09, 2021, 01:55:21 PM
Saved myself a trip to Sansone by asking nicely at a local spot :)

15 bucks!

Nice score!
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: jkb on January 09, 2021, 04:47:01 PM
Saved myself a trip to Sansone by asking nicely at a local spot :)

15 bucks!

Nice.  My local guys want to maintain 33% food cost.  I worked in grocery as a kid.  Profit was 3%.
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: Peter B on January 10, 2021, 10:30:57 AM
4 mins on screen, 2-3 mins on steel. I think I got the oven up to nearly 600 degrees, the thermometer I have hanging in my oven only goes to 550 and it was "off the charts".

To clarify - you have the screen on the oven rack in a low position and then switch to the steel (removing from the screen) on an upper rack - yes?  Also, when you move to the upper rack, are you switching on the broiler or do you stay with the 550-ish oven setting?
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: piesofsatan on January 10, 2021, 01:30:23 PM
To clarify - you have the screen on the oven rack in a low position and then switch to the steel (removing from the screen) on an upper rack - yes?  Also, when you move to the upper rack, are you switching on the broiler or do you stay with the 550-ish oven setting?

No actually!! Rack is second from the lowest, steel is on that rack, screen goes right on top of steel initially and then i just transfer directly on steel once the pie is set. I have a gas oven with the heat source on the bottom and just a knob for the temp, and setting my dial to broil doesn't do anything but add temperature, which is how I'm able to get mine to like 600, I just preheat with the broil setting for an hour+!

Everyones oven is completely different and I haven't baked pizza in any other oven so I would just do whats best for yours at home - your pies look pretty damn good as is!
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: Peter B on January 10, 2021, 01:47:34 PM
No actually!! Rack is second from the lowest, steel is on that rack, screen goes right on top of steel initially and then i just transfer directly on steel once the pie is set. I have a gas oven with the heat source on the bottom and just a knob for the temp, and setting my dial to broil doesn't do anything but add temperature, which is how I'm able to get mine to like 600, I just preheat with the broil setting for an hour+!

Everyones oven is completely different and I haven't baked pizza in any other oven so I would just do whats best for yours at home - your pies look pretty damn good as is!

Oh!  That is interesting - so you are still getting browning and structure on the bottom crust after 4 min with it sitting on a screen that is sitting on the steel?
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: piesofsatan on January 10, 2021, 04:15:17 PM
Oh!  That is interesting - so you are still getting browning and structure on the bottom crust after 4 min with it sitting on a screen that is sitting on the steel?

Yes for sure! I only use the screen for it to set and then transfer to steel as soon as possible. For me the screen is an extra step I'd like to eliminate when I get a bigger steel. My use of it is only out of a desire to get a pie the exact size of my 16" round steel. if my steel was rectangular, or square, and I didn't risk a mess every time I launched a pie I'd never use a screen.
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: vincentoc13 on January 11, 2021, 01:58:04 PM
Tried Chris Graff recipe for same day dough on Saturday.  Never made a same day dough before, so didn't know what to expect, but the recipe got really good reviews, so I gave it a shot.  The pizza looked pretty good, but the flavor and texture was not there for me, it was kinda bland with no crunch factor.  Maybe something had to do with cooking it on the Oonie Koda16, it was a 8min bake with the stone ranging from 735F to 550F.  Could have been the 3% oil or LDM, not to sure, maybe next time I will cut back on the oil and bake in the mid 600's, any feed back would be appreciated.  Anyway it sure was fun trying!!
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: piesofsatan on January 11, 2021, 03:15:37 PM
Tried Chris Graff recipe for same day dough on Saturday.  Never made a same day dough before, so didn't know what to expect, but the recipe got really good reviews, so I gave it a shot.  The pizza looked pretty good, but the flavor and texture was not there for me, it was kinda bland with no crunch factor.  Maybe something had to do with cooking it on the Oonie Koda16, it was a 8min bake with the stone ranging from 735F to 550F.  Could have been the 3% oil or LDM, not to sure, maybe next time I will cut back on the oil and bake in the mid 600's, any feed back would be appreciated.  Anyway it sure was fun trying!!

Looks really good! Sorry to hear the flavor wasn't there for you. I'm baking on a steel in my home oven and I always am able to get good crunch, but I always bake my pies on the well-done side (personal preference). I usually bake at 550-600. You could certainly try taking the oil down to 2%, and the LDM down to 1% and see if that helps!
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: scott r on January 11, 2021, 06:22:57 PM
Looks awesome!!!   Dont be discouraged by same day changing the crisp factor.   It has the potential to be just as crispy as cold ferment.  A factor in crispness is how fermented the dough is, and thats harder to nail down with a fast moving dough at room temp. 
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: vincentoc13 on January 11, 2021, 06:36:03 PM
Looks really good! Sorry to hear the flavor wasn't there for you. I'm baking on a steel in my home oven and I always am able to get good crunch, but I always bake my pies on the well-done side (personal preference). I usually bake at 550-600. You could certainly try taking the oil down to 2%, and the LDM down to 1% and see if that helps!
I'm really thinking about purchasing a baking steel, but not too sure yet, Tony G recommends two, bottom and top rack.  Would you use two or are you fine with one?
Looks awesome!!!   Dont be discouraged by same day changing the crisp factor.   It has the potential to be just as crispy as cold ferment.  A factor in crispness is how fermented the dough is, and thats harder to nail down with a fast moving dough at room temp. 
Thanks! it was my first shot at it, so I'm definitely going for it again.
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: Peter B on January 12, 2021, 07:48:29 AM
I'm really thinking about purchasing a baking steel, but not too sure yet, Tony G recommends two, bottom and top rack.  Would you use two or are you fine with one?

I have a stone and a steel, and I would say that having two gives you flexibility.  Right now, I use both for the Sicilians that I do because I am looking for super crisp on the bottom which is obviously harder in a pan.  For the rounds, I will either use a screen and then transfer to the steel or just use the steel by itself.  But - having options to try different combinations is really important IMO.  You can learn what works best in your oven by adjusting rack positions, when to move from stone to steel or vice versa and so on.
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: chrisgraff on January 12, 2021, 11:46:41 PM
Tried Chris Graff recipe for same day dough on Saturday.  Never made a same day dough before, so didn't know what to expect, but the recipe got really good reviews, so I gave it a shot.  The pizza looked pretty good, but the flavor and texture was not there for me, it was kinda bland with no crunch factor.  Maybe something had to do with cooking it on the Oonie Koda16, it was a 8min bake with the stone ranging from 735F to 550F.  Could have been the 3% oil or LDM, not to sure, maybe next time I will cut back on the oil and bake in the mid 600's, any feed back would be appreciated.  Anyway it sure was fun trying!!

Those amounts of oil/LDM are for a home oven. 525F (no fan) is about the sweet spot for me on 1/2" steel. Your pizza looks good, though!
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: vincentoc13 on January 13, 2021, 03:29:45 PM
Those amounts of oil/LDM are for a home oven. 525F (no fan) is about the sweet spot for me on 1/2" steel. Your pizza looks good, though!
I appreciate the info!  I'm seriously thinking about getting a baking steel, if I do, will most likely try to sell my Koda 16.  Thanks for the kudos!
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: piesofsatan on January 14, 2021, 10:51:43 PM
Last night's attempt!

16", 62% Hydration, 48hr CF using the Joe Rosenthal formula (https://www.richardeaglespoon.com/articles/how-to-pizza (https://www.richardeaglespoon.com/articles/how-to-pizza))
Some of the best dough I've handled thus far, might get stuck on this one for a while. Really tasty, and didn't miss the LDMP.

Grande WMLM Mozz, Alta Cucina tomatoes through a food mill on the fine plate with salt, evoo, and grated garlic. Oregano down on top of the sauce on the pie before cheese application. Some Wegman's brand cupping pepperoni. Frankie's 457 Olive Oil pre- bake then Grana Padana post-bake.

600F on Baking Steel. 4 mins on screeen (atop steel), 2-3 directly on Steel.

I liked this pie. Though still tastes very similar to the last ones i've done, and not much of a step up in my sauce dept. I also dont know if I noticed THAT much of a difference between the Grande WM vs. ECB, but I think I like the WM better. I also yielded smaller dough balls than I would have liked this time. Something like 440g for a 16" pie - I would've been happier if it was closer to 475.

I don't know how some of you home-pizza veterans have not driven yourselves crazy over sauce recipes. First time using Alta Cucina's and I liked them, but something is still off. The tomato flavor is just not jumping out at me. I wonder if I should be combining two different types of tomatoes. I've heard of people combining 711 and Alta Cucina. I have a can of Mutti in my cupboard that I might mill and combine 50/50 with Alta's next time.. Also - do you think milling just the whole tomatoes and discarding the juice from the Alta's would've been a better move than keeping the juices? I know I want a thin sauce, but I wonder if I'm diluting the tomato flavor from the actual whole tomatoes this way?
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: vincentoc13 on January 14, 2021, 10:59:52 PM
Last night's attempt!

16", 62% Hydration, 48hr CF using the Joe Rosenthal formula (https://www.richardeaglespoon.com/articles/how-to-pizza (https://www.richardeaglespoon.com/articles/how-to-pizza))
Some of the best dough I've handled thus far, might get stuck on this one for a while. Really tasty, and didn't miss the LDMP.

Grande WMLM Mozz, Alta Cucina tomatoes through a food mill on the fine plate with salt, evoo, and grated garlic. Oregano down on top of the sauce on the pie before cheese application. Some Wegman's brand cupping pepperoni. Frankie's 457 Olive Oil pre- bake then Grana Padana post-bake.

600F on Baking Steel. 4 mins on screeen (atop steel), 2-3 directly on Steel.

I liked this pie. Though still tastes very similar to the last ones i've done, and not much of a step up in my sauce dept. I also dont know if I noticed THAT much of a difference between the Grande WM vs. ECB, but I think I like the WM better. I also yielded smaller dough balls than I would have liked this time. Something like 440g for a 16" pie - I would've been happier if it was closer to 475.

I don't know how some of you home-pizza veterans have not driven yourselves crazy over sauce recipes. First time using Alta Cucina's and I liked them, but something is still off. The tomato flavor is just not jumping out at me. I wonder if I should be combining two different types of tomatoes. I've heard of people combining 711 and Alta Cucina. I have a can of Mutti in my cupboard that I might mill and combine 50/50 with Alta's next time.. Also - do you think milling just the whole tomatoes and discarding the juice from the Alta's would've been a better move than keeping the juices? I know I want a thin sauce, but I wonder if I'm diluting the tomato flavor from the actual whole tomatoes this way?
Now thats one hellava great lookin pie! Alta Cicina are my go to tomatoes, love the flavor.
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: scott r on January 14, 2021, 11:05:04 PM
Last night's attempt!
First time using Alta Cucina's and I liked them, but something is still off. The tomato flavor is just not jumping out at me. I wonder if I should be combining two different types of tomatoes. I've heard of people combining 711 and Alta Cucina. I have a can of Mutti in my cupboard that I might mill and combine 50/50 with Alta's next time.. Also - do you think milling just the whole tomatoes and discarding the juice from the Alta's would've been a better move than keeping the juices? I know I want a thin sauce, but I wonder if I'm diluting the tomato flavor from the actual whole tomatoes this way?

I did a bunch of tomato taste testing side by side recently.   I matched salt levels on everything before passing any judgements.   Even though Mutti whole peeled is Italian and Alta Cucina is CA, they were two of the most similar of the 20 (top brands) I tried.   I think if your going to blend Alta cucina with something your better off with the 7/11 than Mutti whole peeled.   

You will get a thicker sauce getting rid of the juice with the Altas, but the flavor is not going to change much/at all.

Killer looking/sounding pizza there.  You should be proud!
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: piesofsatan on January 14, 2021, 11:13:01 PM
I did a bunch of tomato taste testing side by side recently.   I matched salt levels on everything before passing any judgements.   Even though Mutti whole peeled is Italian and Alta Cucina is CA, they were two of the most similar of the 20 (top brands) I tried.   I think if your going to blend Alta cucina with something your better off with the 7/11 than Mutti whole peeled.   

You will get a thicker sauce getting rid of the juice with the Altas, but the flavor is not going to change much/at all.

Killer looking/sounding pizza there.  You should be proud!

Ahhh okay! Thanks for the info, good to know! Maybe Alta + a Jersey tomato like Sclafani / Jersey Fresh would be a good pairing.

Would you want to share your taste test conclusions though? :) Curious as to your favorites.

Thanks for the kind words!!
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: Peter B on January 15, 2021, 09:08:28 AM
Although I have not tried this yet, America's Test Kitchen in one of their recipes put a dash of red wine vinegar in their tomato to make the flavor pop a bit.  If I am not mistaken, this is the video:
https://vimeo.com/47961386

Again - no idea if this works or if this will get you where you are looking to go, but I like the idea of it and might try it at some point myself.
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: wb54885 on January 15, 2021, 10:04:13 AM
Sauce obsession is the thunderdome, don’t let anyone tell you something is off limits. My one big qualm with the richardeaglespoon link is his insistence that NY sauce is uncooked and that it’s not up for discussion. False, unhelpful, boring. You’ve tried it and liked it, therefore it is valid. Soy sauce, wine, vinegar, lemon juice, ungodly amounts of sugar or oregano—I’ve seen all of these in commercial pizzerias. And that’s after deciding what tomato product to use, which is its own journey. This forum is littered with the stories of sauce devotees who tweak ingredients and amounts in recipes for months on end trying to recreate a particular pizzeria’s sauce or chase the dragon in their mind’s eye of how good it could be, if only they tried just one more thing...

I love a dirty sauce on NY style pizzas. Give me basil and oregano and garlic and onion and salt and sugar. Not too much of any one, but at least some of each. You’re on a righteous sauce path. Welcome to the thunderdome.

Your pizzas are looking GOOD. 🤘
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: hammettjr on January 15, 2021, 03:03:46 PM
I agree with WB for the most part, but I think that the forum tends to have a majority of crust fanatics. I often see posts with titles like "Made a great pizza" that have lengthy paragraphs describing the dough formula and process followed by a picture of the pizza, and no reference to sauce or cheese at all. Part of it may be that there's only a handful of us really trying for a specific NY slice flavor. It may also be, and I'm not trying to be offensive or start debate, that being in NY where we have access to hundreds of pizzerias changes our perspective a bit. Putting aside the new-school joints, what separates pizzas from one block to the next? IMO the key differences are 1) sauce and 2) ratio of crust/sauce/cheese.

Three things I'll mention on sauce flavor:

1) As you said, experiment with blending tomatoes, but consider heavy puree and Escalon. I've read previously that a common mix is 1 part 7/11 or Alta, 1 part heavy puree, 1 part water. It may give you a more earthy/cooked/umami flavor...or maybe you wont like it, only one way to find out. Also, it's generally accepted here that Stanislaus is superior to Escalon, but I'm curious to know the differences, say 6in1 vs 7/11. Certainly some shops use them.

2) Keep experimenting with the seasoning. I believe many shops have people saying "wow that tomato tastes great" by using a subtle blend of ingredients to achieve a great flavor where no one item stands out. (Lucia keeps me baffled. You cant see or taste anything specific in the sauce, yet the flavor is great and they refuse to sell it separately.)

3) I hesitate on this one, and would be curious to hear opinions from WB and Scott, but there was a previous forum member who was very vocal and argumentative about NY pizza. I learned alot from him. But he felt that when you get to the detail of NY flavor we're seeking, that the oven really matters, and that we cant compete without a deck oven. Some folks, like Norma, have confirmed that their pizzas simply differ when they bake them in something other than their deck. But I still dont understand how our tomato would cook so differently in our ovens vs a deck. Just something to keep in mind.
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: jkb on January 15, 2021, 03:38:56 PM
I agree with WB for the most part, but I think that the forum tends to have a majority of crust fanatics. I often see posts with titles like "Made a great pizza" that have lengthy paragraphs describing the dough formula and process followed by a picture of the pizza, and no reference to sauce or cheese at all. Part of it may be that there's only a handful of us really trying for a specific NY slice flavor. It may also be, and I'm not trying to be offensive or start debate, that being in NY where we have access to hundreds of pizzerias changes our perspective a bit. Putting aside the new-school joints, what separates pizzas from one block to the next? IMO the key differences are 1) sauce and 2) ratio of crust/sauce/cheese.

Three things I'll mention on sauce flavor:

1) As you said, experiment with blending tomatoes, but consider heavy puree and Escalon. I've read previously that a common mix is 1 part 7/11 or Alta, 1 part heavy puree, 1 part water. It may give you a more earthy/cooked/umami flavor...or maybe you wont like it, only one way to find out. Also, it's generally accepted here that Stanislaus is superior to Escalon, but I'm curious to know the differences, say 6in1 vs 7/11. Certainly some shops use them.

2) Keep experimenting with the seasoning. I believe many shops have people saying "wow that tomato tastes great" by using a subtle blend of ingredients to achieve a great flavor where no one item stands out. (Lucia keeps me baffled. You cant see or taste anything specific in the sauce, yet the flavor is great and they refuse to sell it separately.)

3) I hesitate on this one, and would be curious to hear opinions from WB and Scott, but there was a previous forum member who was very vocal and argumentative about NY pizza. I learned alot from him. But he felt that when you get to the detail of NY flavor we're seeking, that the oven really matters, and that we cant compete without a deck oven. Some folks, like Norma, have confirmed that their pizzas simply differ when they bake them in something other than their deck. But I still dont understand how our tomato would cook so differently in our ovens vs a deck. Just something to keep in mind.


Saporito in the Alta will get you part of the way, but it's all about Grande.
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: wb54885 on January 16, 2021, 11:26:35 AM
On point 3, I can’t find it right away, but I seem to remember he relented in at least one case and admitted that someone had gotten the bake just right and he could no longer say it was IMPOSSIBLE to match a deck oven in a home oven. But I think the biggest point in favor of that argument would be dimensional:  if you include the 18-20” diameter requirement in your definition of a NY street slice pie (and there is something to this claim, though I wouldn’t call it definitive) then chances are you won’t easily or often find a home oven that can fit a stone or steel of that size, and a deck oven leaves no edge of the pizza unaccounted for in terms of proximity to or contact with the baking surface (as opposed to, say, having a 16” steel and an 18” screen, or some similar setup). The other big argument he made in that direction was about insulation and top heat, which I believe was defeated by various home bakers using multiple stones or steel plates (or tiles, bricks, etc) to reflect heat downward to the top of the pizza, as well as broilers being used with perfect timing. Long story short, I think he eventually admitted that when it comes to the physics of how a plain pie bakes in a deck oven, the community had more or less figured it out in a few instances. But as I can’t find the thread(s) right now, it’s possible I’m misremembering.

Ovens are dumb machines, there’s really not much to them. Big heavy stones that retain heat and chambers that are designed to take advantage of the way the heated interior atmosphere moves. The goal is evenly cooking a pizza from the bottom up and the top down, given something like 5-10 minutes of baking time. As to whether the deck oven does things a home oven just can’t do, I don’t think I agree. But the deck oven does it much more easily, and with a sort of signature. The moisture of the air inside a gas deck oven will be different than an electric home oven, for instance, but is that a noticeable difference on the receiving end? And of course many home ovens use gas...and now with everybody moving to Pizzamaster ovens, NY slices are being baked in professional electric ovens with broilers. Is the pizza fundamentally changed by gas vs. electric, broiler vs. not?

If anything, I’d say maybe using broilers changes the cheese/sauce in a way that deck ovens don’t. I’ve never tried using my home oven steel in combination with a stone above the pizza to redirect heat, but my hunch is this would be closer to a deck oven bake. Of course, you could compensate by adding water to a sauce that was going to encounter broiler heat so that the tomato was more gently treated, or even spritz the top of your cheese with water before launching to give the broiler something to work through before it got to the point of harshing your melt.

Bottom line, at this point in my life I believe any claim that deck ovens do things to pizza that home ovens can’t be made to do—with a mind toward maximizing the capabilities of YOUR oven, and adapting YOUR pizza to it—is based more in psychology than physics. If physical differences are there, they’re not nearly as important to the end result as the skill and experience of the pizza maker. Anybody who really listens to their oven, their crust, their melt, and tries over and over again, can hit pizza bliss.

All that said, I think Matt is right on about seasoning. It’s the difference between thinking all you need are the right brands of tomatoes and cheese, and figuring out where that extra something is coming from. Also from Matt’s world, if you’re not already keeping track of how much sauce and cheese you’re using, that is a big help. This last pizza almost looks a bit dry on the pepperoni slice. I’m wondering if you’re trying to err on the side of not using too much cheese, and instead you’re using too little. I usually do that so I’m very conscious of the danger! In your older pizzas you were sometimes using fresh mozz as well as aged/shredded—that adds water to the pizza and helps with the melt, so if you’re only using shredded now and you want that same melt, the moisture has to come from somewhere else. Using more cheese will also change the sauce because what you’re really doing is flash-melding them into a single entity, and the interaction will vary noticeably based on their respective ratios. Since you’re using a screen and you prefer a more well-done bake, you might try going 5-10% heavier than you think you should on both sauce and cheese and see how you like the result. Then, try again. There’s a sweet spot between all these factors for your personal tastes and, unfortunately, you’re just gonna have to make and eat a lot of awesome pizza to find out where your perfect bullseye is. Hell of a problem.
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: Peter B on January 17, 2021, 12:14:23 PM
WB- your comments made me think of something that had not occurred to me before.  I did not see any recent chatter on this site about it either. 

I am sure folks have seen the double ovens where you have a sort of deck oven shape space on the top and a smaller "large" oven space on the bottom.  So you could have your Thanksgiving turkey going in the large space at 350, while you have cookies going in the top space at 425 (or whatever).

The top space seems like it would work as a deck oven - no?  I have not viewed one in person since this occurred to me, but I would think that the electric ones would still have the element on top, so you could preheat a stone/steel for bottom heat and non-broiler heat from the top element would cook from the top down.  No idea how the gas equivalent would work.

Obviously this is a solution that only works when you are doing a remodel, buying new construction, you old oven dies, etc.  We are currently in the market for a house and may have to buy new construction, so the thought crossed my mind. 

Anyone have any experience in this direction?
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: piesofsatan on January 18, 2021, 04:05:52 PM
You guys are the best. Really appreciate all the input, help, and encouragement!

I think i'd like to try cutting the remainder of my portioned out Alta's with Saporito or some sort of heavy puree.. Has anyone had good results with SuperDolci? Have seen it mentioned a few times.

I kept going back and fourth on sauce being complicated, or simple. So many times in books, and pizza related videos, and even here on the forums you'll see people say "Just a great can of tomatoes and salt is all you need" and I wanted to believe that to be true but I think for what i'm trying to do it simply is not, at least, as far as just using one type of tomatoes goes.

Any purees that are readily available at grocery stores any of you prefer? Might not be able to get a can of Stanislaus puree for a bit.

This last pizza almost looks a bit dry on the pepperoni slice.


It does, but I think its because of the photo degradation from uploading here, it actually wasn't dry! I think i've been doing something like 7-8oz of sauce + 7-8oz of cheese per 16" pie. Usually do two pies per bake so I'll adjust for the second pie depending on how the first comes out. These photos are from the second pie where I believe I used a bit more sauce + a bit less cheese. I was scared to go too heavy as my dough balls were smaller than usual and stretching to 16 was a bit risky. Will correct that next bake.

Matt, if I recall you're going 8oz + a tablespoon or something in that ballpark for sauce on a 14"? or did you lower it more recently? Could be an issue of under-saucing / under-cheesing for me then if that is the case.

I'm just excited to have another route to go down, another lead, haha - I've not experimented with a puree in my sauce at all yet so this will be exciting!

Thanks again for everyones help!!



Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: hammettjr on January 18, 2021, 04:28:51 PM

Matt, if I recall you're going 8oz + a tablespoon or something in that ballpark for sauce on a 14"? or did you lower it more recently? Could be an issue of under-saucing / under-cheesing for me then if that is the case.


I'm using a heaping 3/4 cup for 14"". So maybe 7oz? For a 16" pan i use 1 cup + 2 spoons.

Cheese is where we differ more. I use 9oz mozz on 14", which is significantly more than what you're using.

No right or wrong on any of this though.

Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: vincentoc13 on January 18, 2021, 04:45:15 PM
Oh to be clear the last round pie pic is a picture of a Roebling Pizza pie, not mine, I wish!!

These are usually 14-15" pies as my peel cant handle any bigger, I just ordered a new one that is 16x18 so in theory i'll be able to launch a 16" pie onto my 16" inch round baking steel though it'll be risky, haha.

The sauce and cheese questions will be harder to answer. The most recent pies I posted I was using a spouted measuring cup, thanks to a tip from Norma, and doing her method of putting some cheese down on the dough, then spiral the sauce with the measuring cup, then more cheese on top. I eyeballed both of the last two pies. I'll weigh it all out next time and let you know!

And yes, as I mentioned I'm using a steel!
-
And also, just for anyone reading or wondering, haha, my username comes from my favorite song by a 70's punk band from Cleveland called The Pagans, their song was called Eyes of Satan, which is the handle I use for everything else, but considering the nature of this forum PiesOfSatan seemed more fitting ;)
I'm looking into getting a pizza steel(s), was just wondering if you were to purchase a new steel for yourself, what size would you buy?  also, would you ever invest in buying two baking steels? I really like the looks of your pizzas, so just thought I would ask you since your putting out some great pies! Thank you.
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: piesofsatan on January 18, 2021, 04:57:12 PM
I'm using a heaping 3/4 cup for 14"". So maybe 7oz? For a 16" pan i use 1 cup + 2 spoons.

Cheese is where we differ more. I use 9oz mozz on 14", which is significantly more than what you're using.

No right or wrong on any of this though.

This is good info! Because your pies never look over cheesed or over sauced and still very neat. Gives me confidence to up my amounts a bit!
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: piesofsatan on January 18, 2021, 05:00:36 PM
I'm looking into getting a pizza steel(s), was just wondering if you were to purchase a new steel for yourself, what size would you buy?  also, would you ever invest in buying two baking steels? I really like the looks of your pizzas, so just thought I would ask you since your putting out some great pies! Thank you.

I'd personally try to find something rectangular that would take up most of the area of my oven rack, this way launching will be less risky. For my oven, which doesn't have too much depth to it, I'd probably look into getting a 16 x 20" steel. Not sure you can find one of the already seasoned Baking Steel brand ones in that size though, would likely have to be a custom job.

I haven't thought of getting a second one only because I haven't seemed to have much trouble with top browning, but I can't imagine it would hurt to have two, which would in theory replicate a deck oven!
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: vincentoc13 on January 18, 2021, 05:03:59 PM
Thanks, looks like I will be looking into a custom job.
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: RHawthorne on January 19, 2021, 03:05:06 PM
Although I have not tried this yet, America's Test Kitchen in one of their recipes put a dash of red wine vinegar in their tomato to make the flavor pop a bit.  If I am not mistaken, this is the video:
https://vimeo.com/47961386

Again - no idea if this works or if this will get you where you are looking to go, but I like the idea of it and might try it at some point myself.

The video won't load from the link you posted for whatever reason, but I'm sure I can find it on YouTube. Anyway, I've experimented with small quantities of vinegar in my pizza sauce and I can't say I've really detected a major flavor impact. I guess I would just need to use more. Someone also posted recently that they heard about John's of Bleecker Street using lemon juice in their sauce to give it that acidic twang. My most recent experiment was with balsamic vinegar, and the next time I use it, I'll bump it up a bit and see what happens.
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: piesofsatan on January 19, 2021, 03:49:47 PM
I actually forgot to mention, when I scored that loaf of Grande recently - I was initially outside of the shop eating a slice, and noticed through the window behind the counter they had cans and cans of Dole Pineapples (couldn't tell if they were cans of juice or chunks) on a shelf (kinda hidden but you can see from the outside of the storefront). I wonder if they use pineapple juice in their sauce. Feel like I've heard it being done before too. Either way, interesting - wonder how it would be!
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: RHawthorne on January 19, 2021, 04:37:48 PM
I actually forgot to mention, when I scored that loaf of Grande recently - I was initially outside of the shop eating a slice, and noticed through the window behind the counter they had cans and cans of Dole Pineapples (couldn't tell if they were cans of juice or chunks) on a shelf (kinda hidden but you can see from the outside of the storefront). I wonder if they use pineapple juice in their sauce. Feel like I've heard it being done before too. Either way, interesting - wonder how it would be!
It might be interesting, but it certainly wouldn't be my first choice. I would think it would make it too sweet and too thin, and wouldn't bring any acidity to add counterbalance. I've heard of it being used to great in effect in barbecue sauce, though.
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: hammettjr on January 19, 2021, 05:53:26 PM
You and I think alike!
https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=51924.msg587402#msg587402

Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: piesofsatan on January 26, 2021, 02:37:56 PM
Just picked some Sicilian oregano up for the first time!

Not trying to get my hopes up too high, but the smell alone makes me feel like this is at least PART of the missing link in my sauce.

Thursday is pizza night, will report back!  ;D
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: hammettjr on January 26, 2021, 03:21:20 PM
I have the same oregano, its excellent! Its different than the usual stuff, so I go back and forth with which I use.

Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: Peter B on January 26, 2021, 03:23:31 PM
Last night's attempt!

16", 62% Hydration, 48hr CF using the Joe Rosenthal formula (https://www.richardeaglespoon.com/articles/how-to-pizza (https://www.richardeaglespoon.com/articles/how-to-pizza))
Some of the best dough I've handled thus far, might get stuck on this one for a while. Really tasty, and didn't miss the LDMP.

Assuming you are still digging this recipe - Which thickness did you use?  I am looking to switch recipes, as my dough keeps tearing and it is frustrating me. But even his thick setting is thinner than what I have been doing (and still managing to tear it).

Out of the ones that I can recall you have done (this one, Txcraig, chrisgraff, the baking steel one), which do you think you like the most?  I think you and I are going for similar crusts (more to the well done side, crispy underneath, cracks when you fold it, etc.). 
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: piesofsatan on January 26, 2021, 06:08:34 PM
Assuming you are still digging this recipe - Which thickness did you use?  I am looking to switch recipes, as my dough keeps tearing and it is frustrating me. But even his thick setting is thinner than what I have been doing (and still managing to tear it).

Out of the ones that I can recall you have done (this one, Txcraig, chrisgraff, the baking steel one), which do you think you like the most?  I think you and I are going for similar crusts (more to the well done side, crispy underneath, cracks when you fold it, etc.).

I just adjust to make the dough balls 510 grams each per 16” pie. I’m trying to Rosenthal formula again on Thursday. Will be the second time. But I really loved how easy it was to work with. Give it a shot!
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: vincentoc13 on January 26, 2021, 09:42:43 PM
I just adjust to make the dough balls 510 grams each per 16” pie. I’m trying to Rosenthal formula again on Thursday. Will be the second time. But I really loved how easy it was to work with. Give it a shot!
Just picked up my 17x17x3/8 steel today from the metal shop  ;D  I have it soaking in vinegar till tomorrow.  I'm gonna try Rosenthal work flow and recipe for pizza on Friday, cant wait to try out the steel!  I have a feeling I'll be putting my Koda16 to sleep for awhile  :-D 
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: jlijoi on January 27, 2021, 01:38:12 PM
Just picked up my 17x17x3/8 steel today from the metal shop  ;D  I have it soaking in vinegar till tomorrow.  I'm gonna try Rosenthal work flow and recipe for pizza on Friday, cant wait to try out the steel!  I have a feeling I'll be putting my Koda16 to sleep for awhile  :-D

Been looking for a larger size steel plate myself.  Is there any particular type of steel I should be asking for?
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: vincentoc13 on January 27, 2021, 01:59:18 PM
Been looking for a larger size steel plate myself.  Is there any particular type of steel I should be asking for?
A36 low carbon steel plate.
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: piesofsatan on January 30, 2021, 02:39:13 PM
Would say Thursday was a success. I can nitpick all day but this was GOOD, and first time in a long time I wasn't disappointed.

Some notes:

- Dough ball weight increase was super necessary. 510g seems to be pretty close to a sweet spot for a 16", could maybe even up it 10+ more grams perhaps without it feeling too thick.

- As discussed previously with Matt, upping my sauce and cheese amounts made a BIG difference. I think i did nearly 10oz of sauce, and 9oz of cheese, I even went heavier than that on the second pie (one with toppings) which was almost overboard but still worked out well.

- Sicilian oregano is AWESOME, wish I put more of it in my sauce initially but adding it post-bake worked well. To those who use it - do you find it to be much more subtle than the normal kind you'd find in a shaker? I felt like I added the right amount to the sauce but it didn't totally come through initially on the pizza. Either way, it is great and will just use more next time.

- I mixed Mutti and Alta's for the sauce because thats what I had and wanted to try combining. I liked it. I would still like to try Alta + a heavy puree.

- I did a lower temp / longer bake than I've been doing recently and I'm absolutely sticking to it. somewhere around 520F for around 10 mins was great and got the melt that I wanted and the nice color on the crust. At this temp, leaving it in maybe a minute longer than I thought I should also was a good move.

- Sesame seed crust is pure nostalgia for me, as some of my first pizza experiences with my Dad as a kid were from a shop with sesame seed crust. As long as I have the seeds on hand I think all my crusts moving forward will be seeded.

- Dough was Joe Rosenthal's formula again. 62% Hydration, and I was patient and did a 72 hour cold ferment and it was worth it. Great flavor!

- Second pie had fresh garlic, onion and basil on request of the missus

- Grande WM, Some grated Grana Padano, and then some Frankie's 457 EVOO pre-bake on each pie.

Finally feels like im GETTING SOMEWHERE!  :chef:
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: hammettjr on January 30, 2021, 05:19:41 PM
Wow, success indeed! That slice!!

Not too many people use that oregano. Where'd you find it?

I've found this oregano to be stronger than regular oregano. But I'm heavy-handed to begin with. I don't use any of the whitish flower looking parts. And I break the leaves into smaller pieces (but not too small) using my thumb and finger. I read somewhere here that breaking it helps release the oils.

Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: Peter B on January 30, 2021, 06:39:50 PM
I am glad you mentioned the 510 grams for a 16".  That seems to be the thickness that I liked, but thought that maybe I had been out of NJ for too long (considering Rosenthal says he is all the way down at 400 grams).  I am tempted to try your 10oz of sauce too.

I am thinking of changing my baking technique next time.  I have had issues getting the pie off the screen onto the steel.  So I think what I am going to try is put the screen on a lower rack like usual, but put my pizza stone just above it for that deck oven effect.  The stone I have is maybe a 15" diameter, and the pizza would be a 16" but I think the heat would radiate out at an angle and not straight down.  Plus I think this would allow me to go with a longer bake as you have suggested, without blasting the hell out of the cheese just so I can get some color on the top crust.

I skipped this week just to try to give myself some time to get confidence back.  We had standard Ohio pizza, which wasn't bad for Ohio pizza.  It will never replace that cheese / sauce / crust flavor and crunch symphony of a proper NJ slice.
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: piesofsatan on January 30, 2021, 07:38:59 PM
Wow, success indeed! That slice!!

Not too many people use that oregano. Where'd you find it?

I've found this oregano to be stronger than regular oregano. But I'm heavy-handed to begin with. I don't use any of the whitish flower looking parts. And I break the leaves into smaller pieces (but not too small) using my thumb and finger. I read somewhere here that breaking it helps release the oils.

Thanks Matt! Really loved the melt - looked a little like yours which made me happy haha!

I bought the oregano online actually! There were  green and yellow-ish leaves I would pinch off the stem and break up between my fingers into smaller pieces into a small bowl. Hopefully did it the right way but it tasted good, so!
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: vincentoc13 on January 31, 2021, 01:44:09 PM
Would say Thursday was a success. I can nitpick all day but this was GOOD, and first time in a long time I wasn't disappointed.

Some notes:

- Dough ball weight increase was super necessary. 510g seems to be pretty close to a sweet spot for a 16", could maybe even up it 10+ more grams perhaps without it feeling too thick.

- As discussed previously with Matt, upping my sauce and cheese amounts made a BIG difference. I think i did nearly 10oz of sauce, and 9oz of cheese, I even went heavier than that on the second pie (one with toppings) which was almost overboard but still worked out well.

- Sicilian oregano is AWESOME, wish I put more of it in my sauce initially but adding it post-bake worked well. To those who use it - do you find it to be much more subtle than the normal kind you'd find in a shaker? I felt like I added the right amount to the sauce but it didn't totally come through initially on the pizza. Either way, it is great and will just use more next time.

- I mixed Mutti and Alta's for the sauce because thats what I had and wanted to try combining. I liked it. I would still like to try Alta + a heavy puree.

- I did a lower temp / longer bake than I've been doing recently and I'm absolutely sticking to it. somewhere around 520F for around 10 mins was great and got the melt that I wanted and the nice color on the crust. At this temp, leaving it in maybe a minute longer than I thought I should also was a good move.

- Sesame seed crust is pure nostalgia for me, as some of my first pizza experiences with my Dad as a kid were from a shop with sesame seed crust. As long as I have the seeds on hand I think all my crusts moving forward will be seeded.

- Dough was Joe Rosenthal's formula again. 62% Hydration, and I was patient and did a 72 hour cold ferment and it was worth it. Great flavor!

- Second pie had fresh garlic, onion and basil on request of the missus

- Grande WM, Some grated Grana Padano, and then some Frankie's 457 EVOO pre-bake on each pie.

Finally feels like im GETTING SOMEWHERE!  :chef:
Excellent looking pies, looks like you got it nailed!  Last night used my steel and Rosenthal's recipe for the first time.  Ok, even though I over cooked all the pizza's I made last night (4) and my oven sabotaged me, I could tell Rosenthal's recipe is very good.  I loved the way the dough handled right out of the gate. I'm super worried about my oven, and the way it handled last night.

I pre-heated the oven at 550° for 1.5 hours before the bake, the steel was between 540° and 549°.  I launched and baked the first two pies with no issues, but as we finished eating the second pie, I glanced over at the oven and noticed it was flashing a F9 error code and the oven turned off.  According to GE, "when the oven gives this error code it means the oven has detected a problem with the automatic door lock."
When I tried to turn it back on it gave me another error code saying "door locked" even though it wasn't.  Once the oven cooled down, it let me turn it back on and I was back in business and made the third pie. While making the 4th pie, the error codes came back on and the heat turned off, so I just launched the pie and used the residual heat.

I'm not sure if there is anything I can do about this other than not letting the oven get too hot, but that really sucks! I might not ever be able to obtain the NY style I dream of.  If anyone has experienced this problem please let me know.  Thanks.

(I forgot to add that I used the broiler for have of the bake on the pies and my steel is 17x17x3/8)

Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: [email protected] on February 07, 2021, 10:16:21 AM
Hey there. Good looking pies you’re making.

 (Edit: found the thread I was looking for, look forward to following yours)

Saw your mention of a Scarr’s dough clone at the beginning of the thread and searched a bit without fruition.

Any chance of a point in the right direction for a forum newb?
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: stevenfstein on February 07, 2021, 11:29:37 AM
Saved myself a trip to Sansone by asking nicely at a local spot :)

15 bucks!

I have access to this and other Grande loafs at Ace Endico but have been reluctant to purchase, only make a few pies every week or so. Usually get shredded East Coast Blend, portioned and frozen in ziplock bags. What do you use to grate all that cheese. I imagine I would cut into sections and freeze the remaining portions but my 14-16" pies use 8-11 oz of cheese at a time.

Best... Steve
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: stevenfstein on February 07, 2021, 11:31:13 AM
Sesame seeds on the crust sounds interesting - how do you achieve that please?

Best... Steve
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: hammettjr on February 07, 2021, 11:44:55 AM
I have access to this and other Grande loafs at Ace Endico but have been reluctant to purchase, only make a few pies every week or so. Usually get shredded East Coast Blend, portioned and frozen in ziplock bags. What do you use to grate all that cheese. I imagine I would cut into sections and freeze the remaining portions but my 14-16" pies use 8-11 oz of cheese at a time.

Best... Steve

Thats what I do. Cut into ~10oz chunks, wrap in plastic wrap and freeze. Then thaw and shred for each bake. (I use a potato grater to get bigger shreds.)

There really isn't a huge difference between their whole milk and east coast blend though.

Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: piesofsatan on February 07, 2021, 09:46:54 PM
Sesame seeds on the crust sounds interesting - how do you achieve that please?

Best... Steve

I just brush the rim with a little water and sprinkle em on before I sauce or cheese the pie!
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: piesofsatan on February 07, 2021, 09:48:25 PM
Thats what I do. Cut into ~10oz chunks, wrap in plastic wrap and freeze. Then thaw and shred for each bake. (I use a potato grater to get bigger shreds.)

There really isn't a huge difference between their whole milk and east coast blend though.

Yep same!
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: piesofsatan on February 08, 2021, 01:21:10 PM
I want to get a can of either Full Red, Super Dolce, or Saporito to mix with my Alta Cucina's. Seems like it will get me one step closer to where I want my flavors to be. Any one prefer one to the other? As I've stated I'm literally just trying to get my sauce to taste anywhere near a GOOD nyc slice's would.

Also - there is a short video series about Scarr's, I'm not sure if it was posted here yet but it looks like they use #10 cans of Bianco DiNapoli "SAUCE", which I have not tried yet. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7k_hqR9TJ6c&t=90s Anyone mess around with their prepared sauce before? (comes in at 1:27 in the video)
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: RHawthorne on February 08, 2021, 01:49:03 PM
I want to get a can of either Full Red, Super Dolce, or Saporito to mix with my Alta Cucina's. Seems like it will get me one step closer to where I want my flavors to be. Any one prefer one to the other? As I've stated I'm literally just trying to get my sauce to taste anywhere near a GOOD nyc slice's would.

Also - there is a short video series about Scarr's, I'm not sure if it was posted here yet but it looks like they use #10 cans of Bianco DiNapoli "SAUCE", which I have not tried yet. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7k_hqR9TJ6c&t=90s Anyone mess around with their prepared sauce before? (comes in at 1:27 in the video)
I just got myself a can of Bianco DiNapoli tomatoes and used it on my pizzas yesterday. I thought they made a good sauce, but I wouldn't say they were any better than others I've come to rely on. Mutti San Marzanos are still my favorite, and Cento all-purpose ground tomatoes are as good as the Bianco DiNapolis, in my opinion. I wouldn't necessarily say I was disappointed with them (okay, maybe a little, after all the hype I've been hearing about them for so long), but now that I've tried them, I don't feel any need to use them again.
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: piesofsatan on February 08, 2021, 02:06:41 PM
I just got myself a can of Bianco DiNapoli tomatoes and used it on my pizzas yesterday. I thought they made a good sauce, but I wouldn't say they were any better than others I've come to rely on. Mutti San Marzanos are still my favorite, and Cento all-purpose ground tomatoes are as good as the Bianco DiNapolis, in my opinion. I wouldn't necessarily say I was disappointed with them (okay, maybe a little, after all the hype I've been hearing about them for so long), but now that I've tried them, I don't feel any need to use them again.

Oh yeah I meant their SAUCE product, I've used their Whole Peeled and Crushed tomatoes before and liked them but was curious about this:
https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/524b0fd3e4b0b054d2f65e22/1588452513268-SWG4QMEU033UA6Z55F17/ke17ZwdGBToddI8pDm48kIN5LfX9-0h7Ghnev0lihcp7gQa3H78H3Y0txjaiv_0fDoOvxcdMmMKkDsyUqMSsMWxHk725yiiHCCLfrh8O1z4YTzHvnKhyp6Da-NYroOW3ZGjoBKy3azqku80C789l0o8OMvY5tuV_wqZQCqqStn6TLQlsf89CrXSpCVTAQ8arOUUWcdNrARruD1pDI4y-jw/IMG_2508.jpg

Bottom left is the one I mean
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: RHawthorne on February 08, 2021, 02:43:28 PM
Oh yeah I meant their SAUCE product, I've used their Whole Peeled and Crushed tomatoes before and liked them but was curious about this:
https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/524b0fd3e4b0b054d2f65e22/1588452513268-SWG4QMEU033UA6Z55F17/ke17ZwdGBToddI8pDm48kIN5LfX9-0h7Ghnev0lihcp7gQa3H78H3Y0txjaiv_0fDoOvxcdMmMKkDsyUqMSsMWxHk725yiiHCCLfrh8O1z4YTzHvnKhyp6Da-NYroOW3ZGjoBKy3azqku80C789l0o8OMvY5tuV_wqZQCqqStn6TLQlsf89CrXSpCVTAQ8arOUUWcdNrARruD1pDI4y-jw/IMG_2508.jpg

Bottom left is the one I mean
I'm sure it's probably a fine product, but I would imagine it's just like the whole tomato product, but pureed and maybe seasoned a little bit.
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: piesofsatan on February 18, 2021, 06:28:45 PM
Just re-upped on my tomatoes. Got a can of 7/11, Alta Cucina, and took a shot and got a can of Full Red Pizza Sauce. Now I just need to decide what I'd like to mix and portion out together. I was thinking I'd crack the Full Red and immediately portion out and freeze half untouched, then use the other half to combine with either a full can of 7/11 through a strainer or a full can of Alta through a strainer. Thinking 7/11 since It's been a while since I've used them.

Also strangely enough a Grande rep got in touch with me today and offered me some samples?! Crazy!!
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: piesofsatan on March 02, 2021, 02:58:42 PM
Two more pies from my most recent bake!

I went 58% hydration this time using the Rosenthal calculator and 3% salt and I think I'm going to stick to it for a while, really nailed the texture and mouth feel of a classic new york slice for me. This was my first time going below 60. I really liked it. Hand mixing was a bit tougher but I liked the challenge honestly! Did a 72 hour CF.

My sauce was 1 part Alta Cucina milled, 1 part 7/11 straight out of the can, and then a bit of Full Red Pizza Sauce (not fully prepared) straight out of the can. This was a thicker sauce than usual and I will thin it out a tiny bit next time but I liked the taste and consistency a lot that the 7/11's gave straight up mixed with the thin Altas. I don't know if the full red did anything huge here but I liked my sauce more than usual. Salt, Pepper, Sicilian Oregano, Olive Oil, and microplaned fresh garlic was the recipe this time. It was a step above usual, but still of course missing something. Starting to be convinced of the idea that a deck oven just produces a different flavor. It's okay though, i'll keep trying!

16" pies. Cheese was Grande WMLM, I believe I did nearly 10oz of sauce and 9oz of cheese on the first pie,  I over-cheesed the second pie a bit but it was still good, and got that orange gold - though I liked the first pie way better. Pies finished with Frankies olive oil pre-bake, with Grana Padano post bake.

Next time will play around with sauce again, maybe do 57% hydration, and maybe do a smaller dough ball - these were 510 for a 16" but could maybe size it down to 500.

Thanks for lookin!
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: Peter B on March 02, 2021, 03:05:08 PM
Those look yummy!
Is this the Rosenthal formula, just using less water?
What are you doing with the extra tomato that you have leftover? 
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: piesofsatan on March 02, 2021, 03:32:44 PM
Those look yummy!
Is this the Rosenthal formula, just using less water?
What are you doing with the extra tomato that you have leftover?

Thanks! Yeah, sorry - edited the post, 58% hydration using the Rosenthal calculator, and upped the salt to 3%. 

I took a page from Matt's book and portion the tomato out into pint containers (untouched) and freeze them! Never noticed a dip in quality. The Alta's were from a can I cracked back in late Dec.
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: vincentoc13 on March 02, 2021, 03:41:49 PM
Those pies definitely look legit!  Are you using AP flour? 
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: piesofsatan on March 02, 2021, 04:50:55 PM
Those pies definitely look legit!  Are you using AP flour?

Thanks Vincent! I've been messing around with a mix of 50% All Trumps B&B, and 50% King Arthur AP
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: piesofsatan on March 04, 2021, 01:09:30 PM
I got the itch and made more dough to make more pies because I want to keep in practice.

I'm really glad I did because I had a SAUCE BREAKTHROUGH LAST NIGHT. God, finally we're getting somewhere! :-D :-D :-D

This was a quick 24 hour CF, and I also went down to 57% hydration and loved the crust it produced. Had a ton of flavor too, actually. Used the Rosenthal calculator and adjusted percentages accordingly. 3% Salt, 2% Oil, 1.4% Sugar, 0.25% IDY.

About the SAUCE. First time maybe ever I was like "this tastes like a pizzeria!!" I didn't make it much different than usual, but this is the second time I mixed three different types of tomatoes. Uncooked. And it was the first time I added some grated yellow onion, and I LOVED the flavor it added. I'm not sure why I didn't try this sooner as Matt has been (had been?) doing the same thing for a while. But I remember tasting it before I put the lid on and put it aside and said "Yes!" out loud to my empty kitchen.

I wrote down the recipe, it's simple as hell. But the tricky thing is that I used an unusual amount of tomatoes for the recipe, like 34-36oz of tomato due to mixing three different types. It was like 14oz of Alta Cucina, Milled, 14 oz of 7/11 untouched from can, and like 4-5oz of Full Red and a tiny bit of water. Don't ask me why I did it this way, I just did, haha. Ingredients were:

1 heaping teaspoon of grated yellow onion
1t olive oil
1 clove of grated garlic
1t sicilian oregano
1t sugar
1t salt
1/2t black pepper

Now, I also recently acquired a lot of cheese as I was very lucky to be able meet with a Grande rep who gave me a bunch of samples. Super sweet guy, seemed to just be excited that I was trying to produce this style of pizza in my home oven. He reached out on instagram and offered and I obviously could not refuse. One of the things he gave me was a bag of Grande grated Romano cheese. I put down a good amount on top of my sauced pie before I cheesed it. I haven't used Romano in a while, because for some reason the last block of aged Romano I bought I really didn't like, so I have been leaving it out. This Grande kind was really good though! Maybe because it was nothing fancy, and produced that old school pizzeria flavor when combined with the sauce. I also used some bits of their fresh mozz on these pies which was pretty alright but nothing special. Other cheese was their whole milk mozz, and then some grana padano to finish. I used about 10 oz of sauce on these pies, and about 8-9oz of cheese.

So it is either the grated onion, or the romano that is helping the sauce, or both. But its getting closer and that makes me happy!

Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: Peter B on March 04, 2021, 01:33:13 PM
Damn - that looks good.

Questions:

Grrr...... I would LOVE to get my hands on some Grande samples.  I am not sure I have ever seen Grande Romano, but I am meeting another forum member at Restaurant Depot in a few days to just check out the store - I wonder if they have it.  I have been off of hard cheese lately, as mixing in some provolone works really well IMO.  Having said that, I have thought about a dusting of hard cheese in addition to what I already do.
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: billg on March 04, 2021, 01:35:36 PM
What is the Rosenthal Calculator you are referring to?
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: Peter B on March 04, 2021, 02:13:30 PM
What is the Rosenthal Calculator you are referring to?

Here you go
https://www.richardeaglespoon.com/articles/how-to-pizza#doughCalculator
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: piesofsatan on March 04, 2021, 02:19:07 PM
Damn - that looks good.

Questions:
  • When you say grated, are you using a particular size?  I have a microplane and a more conventional, but not the potato grater (yet).  I wonder if it even matters.
  • With the sugar, does the sauce taste sweet?  I wouldn't think so with such a small amount, but I know there is a style of sauce that some folks love for NY that is sweet.  I had a sweet sauce at a NY style place in Seattle and I did not like it at all.  I loved the place, but I never went back.
  • Have you ever tried the minced garlic in a jar?  I wouldn't think it would work as well as your grated garlic, but I would be happy to be wrong.

Grrr...... I would LOVE to get my hands on some Grande samples.  I am not sure I have ever seen Grande Romano, but I am meeting another forum member at Restaurant Depot in a few days to just check out the store - I wonder if they have it.  I have been off of hard cheese lately, as mixing in some provolone works really well IMO.  Having said that, I have thought about a dusting of hard cheese in addition to what I already do.

Thanks Peter!

- Grated as in like the smallest side of a box grater, super finely grated, usually how any romano usually comes pre-grated. Microplane would do the trick but would be a bit different consistency.

- I wouldn't say the sauce is overly sweet at all, no.

Pre-minced garlic is garbage. Tried it once a while back (not for pizza) and hated it. Didn't taste right.

I could be remembering wrong but restaurant depot does not carry Grande products unfortunately!

What is the Rosenthal Calculator you are referring to?

https://www.richardeaglespoon.com/articles/how-to-pizza#doughCalculator
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: vincentoc13 on March 04, 2021, 09:25:17 PM
Your firing on all cylinders, you pizzas are looking excellent!  I'm diggin on that last slice.  I've never used onion in my sauce, could you taste it, or did it just blend in and help the flavor of the overall sauce?
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: billg on March 04, 2021, 09:27:27 PM
Here you go
https://www.richardeaglespoon.com/articles/how-to-pizza#doughCalculator
 

Thanks Peter!!!!
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: hammettjr on March 04, 2021, 09:50:47 PM
Awesome.

Romano is definitely a huge flavor boost and key to some pizzerias. I think you said you were a fan of Suprema. To me, their slice is dominated by Romano. (Try Louie and Ernie's for another nice slice with Romano.) In one of Norma's videos with Frank G he talks about how pizzerias have mostly stopped using Romano ("they never should've stopped doing that").

I think I really like onion too. WB### has inspired me to try using a combination of both fresh and powder.

Funny reaction to the jarred garlic. The last month or so I've been using it alot (pizza and pasta) and have really liked it. It seems to have some butteryness to it. Who knows, I'm going in circles with my sauce. But happy to see you're making good progress.

Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: Pete-zza on March 04, 2021, 09:53:23 PM
For those who are interested, I added a link to the Richard Eaglespoon calculator to the list of goodies in the thread at:

https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=59104.msg592940#msg592940

Peter
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: corkd on March 05, 2021, 10:18:17 AM
For those who are interested, I added a link to the Richard Eaglespoon calculator to the list of goodies in the thread at:

https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=59104.msg592940#msg592940

Peter
My go to is the herokuapp!  ;D
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: Pete-zza on March 05, 2021, 10:37:42 AM
My go to is the herokuapp!  ;D
corkd,

That is the calculator that replaced the forum's calculators that were based on Flash, which was terminated by Adobe.

Peter
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: billg on March 05, 2021, 11:56:27 AM
corkd,

That is the calculator that replaced the forum's calculators that were based on Flash, which was terminated by Adobe.

Peter

This is what I use as well.  It wold be perfect if you could add the desired fermentation times and temperatures ( stage 1 and 2 ) and have it built into the app.
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: piesofsatan on March 25, 2021, 01:24:59 PM
Four pies from the other night, as well as an upside down sicilian from a week or so ago!

Details on the round pies:
• 60% Hydration / 30hr CF
• Alta Cucina, 7/11, Full Red mix with added small amounts of grated yellow onion, salt, pepper, sicilian oregano, sugar, evoo, fresh garlic
• Grande WMLM Mozz, Fior di Latte, and Romano cheeses
• Sicilian Oregano down on top of the sauce
• Grana Padano to finish
• Vegan pie had sliced peppers, onion, garlic, evoo, and a sesame seed crust. Finished with some vegan parm.

These pies were part of a surprise birthday thing for a friend of mine, had a socially distanced hang on my roof with some friends - first time having more than just a couple people try my pies. They went over swimmingly, and everyone said some really nice things. The best compliments came from other friends born in NYC of course, was nice to hear they found it comparable to an actual good slice shop. I unfortunately only got to try 2 slices out of the last pie I brought up but I really enjoyed it and thought the sauce was the best I've made thus far. Really good! Though I will say I am interested to go back to the East Coast Blend after I finish off this loaf of Whole Milk.

Also part of me wants to try my tomatoes straight out of the can, no seasoning except for what goes down on top of the sauced skin (romano / oregano). I always have tinkered with ingredients but funnily enough have never tried any tomatoes just on their own. In an interview with Scott Weiner, Paulie Gee's Slice Shop mentioned using Tomato Magic right out of the can just blended down a bit, and their slice tastes very classic NY to me. I'd like to try it for myself.

I also have a custom steel finally arriving tomorrow that will take up the entirety of my oven rack, so I will finally be bidding adieu to my screen and launching my 16" pies the real way.

Details on the square:
• 70% hydration 5hr RT based on HansB's famous reply 115 formula
• 7/11, Alta Cucina, Full Red mix
• Grande Italian Blend
• Grande Romano
• Sicilian Oregano
• Grana Padano
• Sesame seed crust

This was a same day pie I made because I had leftover sauce, and leftover cheese to use from a prior bake. It came out surprisingly good!!! I'd like to try par baking next time for my squares to get that nice big crumb. 
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: johnnyoak on March 25, 2021, 02:08:08 PM
These look awesome! Where can I find that original formulation?
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: piesofsatan on March 25, 2021, 03:09:36 PM
These look awesome! Where can I find that original formulation?

For the square from HansB personal thread in Detroit Style, I just doubled this recipe because I was using a 10x14 pan:
100% KABF     160g
  70% HYD       112g
   1% IDY         1.6g
   2% Salt         3.2g
   2% LDMP      3.2g

Total 280g in an 8X10 pan. 4 hour RTF. Middle rack @525F.

For the round pies, I just played around with the Joe Rosenthal dough calculator:
https://www.richardeaglespoon.com/articles/how-to-pizza#doughCalculator

Tick the ADV button to adjust percentages, I did (i think) 60% Hydration, 3% Salt, 3% Oil and left the sugar and yeast at the default.
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: piesofsatan on April 02, 2021, 12:04:43 PM
Hey guys,

Couple pies from last night testing out a brand new custom 16x20" steel. If you've followed along on my journey from the beginning you know I was launching using a screen because I had a 16" ROUND steel, and was too stubborn to make anything smaller than a 16" pie. This new steel is a game changer, the rectangular shape makes it so that almost my entire oven rack is covered, and makes launching properly off of a peel a breeze.

For the first pie I tried to channel my favorite specialty pie from Scarr's. The Hot Boi is so damn good and I had to give it a shot at home. Half of it is veggie pepperoni for a vegetarian friend, and this was no where near as good as Scarr's obviously but I loved it. I’m also officially a Mikes Hot Honey convert from this pie. I don’t know what I was thinking not jumping on board earlier, maybe just being too much of a stubborn purist.I’m going to make this pie much more often, it was really delicious. Also of course had to make a regular pie, and it came out really well.

Here is the scoop on both:
 
16" (more like 15" post bake) 58% Hyd, 3% Salt, 2% Oil, 1.4% Sugar, 0.25% Yeast. - 50hr CF using the Rosenthal calculator

7/11 + Full Red mix with just some salt and evoo added. Trying to essentially start from scratch with my sauce and keep it incredibly simple, I liked how this tasted tonight but it definitely needs a little something else. Perhaps a basil leaf.

Grande WMLM / Grande Romano / Lioni Fresh Mozz / Grana Padano

Sicilian Oregano + some Frankie's 457 EVOO

For the hot boi:
Rosa Grande Pepperoni + Veggie Sausage + Jalapeño + Mikes Hot Honey drizzled post bake
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: Pete-zza on April 02, 2021, 01:15:50 PM
piesofsatan,

I'd say you did very well.

Can you tell us the dough ball weight you used to make the pizza?

Peter
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: piesofsatan on April 02, 2021, 01:24:18 PM
piesofsatan,

I'd say you did very well.

Can you tell us the dough ball weight you used to make the pizza?

Peter

Thank you Peter, means a lot coming from you! The dough balls were around 505g each! I remember Tom Lehmann saying a 16" NY Style pie should be somewhere near the 17.75oz range and that stuck with me.
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: CheeseMcSauceface on April 02, 2021, 02:59:53 PM
Awesome Pies!! I’m a big fan of your thread and it has helped me so much! What flour did you use for these?
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: piesofsatan on April 02, 2021, 03:40:38 PM
Awesome Pies!! I’m a big fan of your thread and it has helped me so much! What flour did you use for these?

50/50 mix of King Arthur All Purpose and All Trumps B&B
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: Jersey Pie Boy on April 03, 2021, 02:57:13 AM
That's a fine-looking pie!
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: foreplease on April 03, 2021, 08:34:48 AM
Pizza looks great! I especially like the bottom. Tell me about that pineapple, please. Were you able to grow that indoors?
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: piesofsatan on April 03, 2021, 03:39:58 PM
Pizza looks great! I especially like the bottom. Tell me about that pineapple, please. Were you able to grow that indoors?

Thanks! And no unfortunately not haha, just had to move it from the kitchen table to make space for pizza night.
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: piesofsatan on April 21, 2021, 03:45:53 PM
One of my best friends lives in Philly, and started making pizza around the same time as me, he works as a metal fabricator so he is pretty handy. Early on in the pandemic he hand made this kind of Frankenstein wood fired oven in a little alley / yard he has. I'd see the results he'd get from it and become very jealous.

Having been recently vaccinated I took a trip to see my best friend and we decided to do a marathon session with his WFO, I'd use my dough recipe and make a batch of dough for 3 pies, and he'd do the same with his recipe when I got to town. We did just that, and then let them CF for 48 hours. In the meantime we took a trip to Pizzeria Beddia as we had both never been. The room temperature tomato pie slice as an appetizer was incredible, but we both found ourselves slightly disappointed in the round pies we got. One regular / one with sausage and onions. I guess it was going to be impossible for it to live up to any hype at that point but I definitely thought it'd be better than it was. At the end of the day it was still pretty good, and I'm glad I went - would go back for the tomato pie, drinks, and salad.

The next day we fired up the oven and cranked out 6 pies for some friends. The oven was amazing, we baked between 650 - 750F. I never achieved a crust like I did with some of these pies before - oven spring-wise AND flavor-wise. To me, the whole flavor profile in general was different. These pies, specifically the first one in the photos below, were the best and closest flavor to a pizzeria flavor I've gotten (I know I have said that multiple times, haha, but its all just forward moving progress!). It was just also just wonderful to crank them out and have friends try them and enjoy them.

Details for my dough & 3 pies:

- 58% Hydration, 2% Oil, 3% Salt, 1% Sugar, 0.25% IDY.  48hr CF, 510g balls, 16" pies
- Alta Cucina through a food mill on the fine plate, with a tiny bit of full red mixed in along with some salt & EVOO
- Grande Romano, Grande Whole Milk + Trader Joe's Part Skim
- Sicilian Oregano
- 24 Month Parm
- Specialty pie was with sliced sausage and cherry peppers.

The third pie had a small launch issue which caused the odd shape - but no one seemed to mind.

Again, was super happy with all three of these pies, and am going to go back down ASAP to bake with my friend again!
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: foreplease on April 21, 2021, 06:13:15 PM
Great story of good pizzas with good friends. Awesome. It’s been a long wait for all of us.
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: ThePizzaFollowing on May 14, 2021, 10:31:44 AM
Damn, that is nice looking.


Hey guys,

Couple pies from last night testing out a brand new custom 16x20" steel. If you've followed along on my journey from the beginning you know I was launching using a screen because I had a 16" ROUND steel, and was too stubborn to make anything smaller than a 16" pie. This new steel is a game changer, the rectangular shape makes it so that almost my entire oven rack is covered, and makes launching properly off of a peel a breeze.

For the first pie I tried to channel my favorite specialty pie from Scarr's. The Hot Boi is so damn good and I had to give it a shot at home. Half of it is veggie pepperoni for a vegetarian friend, and this was no where near as good as Scarr's obviously but I loved it. I’m also officially a Mikes Hot Honey convert from this pie. I don’t know what I was thinking not jumping on board earlier, maybe just being too much of a stubborn purist.I’m going to make this pie much more often, it was really delicious. Also of course had to make a regular pie, and it came out really well.

Here is the scoop on both:
 
16" (more like 15" post bake) 58% Hyd, 3% Salt, 2% Oil, 1.4% Sugar, 0.25% Yeast. - 50hr CF using the Rosenthal calculator

7/11 + Full Red mix with just some salt and evoo added. Trying to essentially start from scratch with my sauce and keep it incredibly simple, I liked how this tasted tonight but it definitely needs a little something else. Perhaps a basil leaf.

Grande WMLM / Grande Romano / Lioni Fresh Mozz / Grana Padano

Sicilian Oregano + some Frankie's 457 EVOO

For the hot boi:
Rosa Grande Pepperoni + Veggie Sausage + Jalapeño + Mikes Hot Honey drizzled post bake
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: piesofsatan on June 02, 2021, 02:53:34 PM
Couple more from last week!

So I got a stand mixer finally, and so far I hate it.  :-D 2 out of the 3 times I've used it I tricked myself into thinking the dough was properly mixed and it was definitely under mixed. I feel like my hand mixing was so much more consistent. I'll keep working with the mixer as I know it is a learning curve but its driving me a bit crazy. You can see the color on the crust on the plain pie is so much more pale than my usual pies, and it was way more brittle, etc. Having said that, they tasted pretty great, and if the dough was on-point could have easily been three of the best pies i've made.

These were - 62% Hyd / 50hr CF / 510g Dough Balls / 15-16". Topped with Tomato Magic + small amount of Full Red with Salt, Pepper, EVOO, Sicilian Oregano, One fresh basil leaf chopped, and a touch of granulated garlic. I really liked the sauce this time. Cheese was Grande Romano down on the sauced skin, followed by a pinch of sicilian oregano, then Grande East Coast Blend, and finished post bake with 24 month Parmagiano Reggiano.

First pie was the regular cheese pie. I'm a huge fan of Philomena's and this pie reminded me of theirs a bit in the looks department which made me happy (just wish the crust was better)

Toppings on the second pie were meatballs I made using Impossible beef (for vegetarian friends) sliced, and dollops of ricotta, people seemed to love that one.

Third pie was a Scarr's style "Hot Boi" pie with half Seitan Pepperoni (for veg friends) / half Rosa Grande + Jalapeño, and Mike's Extra Hot Honey.

Could have been a much worse pizza night, but just makes me more excited to do better next time!

Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: billg on June 02, 2021, 11:26:21 PM
Really Nice!!!!!!!
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: pizzamaestro on June 28, 2021, 04:13:14 PM
I'm a bit late to this thread but how did you get the sesame seeds on the crust (and so evenly spread)??
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: billg on June 28, 2021, 04:21:33 PM
I'm a bit late to this thread but how did you get the sesame seeds on the crust (and so evenly spread)??

Where do you see sesame seeds? ???
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: Peter B on June 28, 2021, 07:32:18 PM
Where do you see sesame seeds? ???

A couple of these pies have them:
https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=64602.msg665464#msg665464
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: piesofsatan on June 29, 2021, 05:01:38 PM
I'm a bit late to this thread but how did you get the sesame seeds on the crust (and so evenly spread)??

A pastry brush and a tiny bit of water in a bowl. Just be careful not to get water on the peel !
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: piesofsatan on July 07, 2021, 04:56:22 PM
So, I tried my hand at a pie with vodka sauce, and then I made a regular pie as well.

Andrew Bellucci generously gave me some guidance toward making a vodka sauce fairly close to what he makes at his shop, and it came out amazing.

Dough Details: 58% Hydration, 2.5% Salt, 0.25% IDY, 2% Oil, 1.4% Sugar. 510g Doughballs, 15-16"-ish pies, 30hr CF with a couple hours on each end at RT

I like this formula, and have used it many times with great results from 30hr all the way to 72hr CF, but something is different my last few bakes. I can't put my finger on it, it seems to be so much crisp without the chew / airy inside. The only changes I've made recently is that I am using a different steel than before, and I am also using 100% KA AP flour when I used to do a mix of KA AP and All Trumps B&B, I'm leaning toward the flour being the issue, but I also know plenty of people who use KA AP for pizza and get great results. The steel I have now is incredibly smooth, vs. the baking steel brand one I had before which was more rough. Could it be something with the smooth like glass steel / moisture having nowhere to go? Not an expert by any means but just throwing things out there. Any thoughts would be great.

Anyway back to the pizza!

The vodka sauce was made with a mix of Bianco DiNapoli, Tomato Magic, and Jersey Fresh (The recipe was for a large amount of sauce and this is what I had on hand), and instead of simmering on the stovetop, it was baked at 350 in a dutch oven for nearly 3 hours slow and low. Andrew's recipe uses two very specific tomato brands for his sauce. I don't want to share his recipe without permission but I will say there's nothing out of the ordinary in the sauce - onion, heavy cream, vodka, salt, pepper, pecorino romano, sugar. It came out great. Probably the best vodka sauce I've ever made.

For the vodka pie, I opened the skin and topped it with Grande East Coast Blend, and some Lioni Fresh Mozzarella, and hit it with a little olive oil before baking, and then spooned the sauce onto the pie post-bake from a warm saucepan on the stove (Bellucci has his vodka sauce in a warmer and tops the pies with it post-bake). I finished it with 24 month Parmigiano Reggiano and Fresh Cracked Tellicherry Pepper. It was so delicious that it was almost unfair. I want to make it again ASAP and luckily I have a ton of sauce leftover in the freezer.

The other pie was a good ol' regular pie with a sauce made from Bianco DiNapoli and Tomato Magic mixed. Sauced skin got hit with some Pecorino Romano, and Sicilian Oregano, then Grande East Coast Blend, and post-bake finished with Parm and EVOO.

Besides the dough issue I spoke of, these were great pies, and I'm very happy I attempted a vodka pie. Sorry for lack of pics, they got eaten faster than I could take 'em.
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: Peter B on July 07, 2021, 07:34:47 PM
Beautiful as always.

I would be looking at the flour as well.  I did some pies over the weekend in a friend's backyard WFO that came out more bready than I would have liked.  I changed several variables, but my primary guess is that "the flour did it".
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: Jon in Albany on July 12, 2021, 09:16:53 AM
I've made a knock off of Andrew's Vodka-Roni pie, cheese and pepperoni with post bake vodka sauce. Really delicious combination.

Edit: forgot to mention the pizzas look really good!
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: piesofsatan on September 27, 2021, 02:08:33 PM
Been a while!! Mostly because my pies were coming on par with other pies I've posted here previously and didn't feel the need to constantly update.

Last night was a really big success and I got a new little light rig to take better photos of my pizza so I thought I'd share.

- Two 16" Pies
- 58% Hyd, 3% Salt, 2% Oil, 1% Sugar, 0.25% Yeast.
- 72hr CF
- 500g Doughball weight
- Bianco DiNapoli / Jersey Fresh mix
- Grande Whole Milk Mozz
- Meatballs from a local shop on one pie, refrigerated, then sliced before baking.
- Baked at 550-ish (Steel temp) for 9-10 mins

So I don't have a light in my crappy oven, and so I used the light I bought for photos aimed at the oven and my launches were perfect for both pies. Doing that from now on. Felt blind before and always ended up with a misshaped pie.

These both tasted great, maybe a little too much cheese on both, still trying to figure out the perfect melt. My sauce could've been better too but I was overall very happy with these. Can't wait to bake again.
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: Jon in Albany on September 27, 2021, 02:47:16 PM
You should absolutely feel free to post photos like these at any time. Looks great.
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: vincentoc13 on October 01, 2021, 11:19:54 PM
Been a while!! Mostly because my pies were coming on par with other pies I've posted here previously and didn't feel the need to constantly update.

Last night was a really big success and I got a new little light rig to take better photos of my pizza so I thought I'd share.

- Two 16" Pies
- 58% Hyd, 3% Salt, 2% Oil, 1% Sugar, 0.25% Yeast.
- 72hr CF
- 500g Doughball weight
- Bianco DiNapoli / Jersey Fresh mix
- Grande Whole Milk Mozz
- Meatballs from a local shop on one pie, refrigerated, then sliced before baking.
- Baked at 550-ish (Steel temp) for 9-10 mins

So I don't have a light in my crappy oven, and so I used the light I bought for photos aimed at the oven and my launches were perfect for both pies. Doing that from now on. Felt blind before and always ended up with a misshaped pie.

These both tasted great, maybe a little too much cheese on both, still trying to figure out the perfect melt. My sauce could've been better too but I was overall very happy with these. Can't wait to bake again.
Great looking pie!! Are you using King Arthurs AP flour?
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: piesofsatan on October 02, 2021, 04:22:44 PM
Great looking pie!! Are you using King Arthurs AP flour?

This round was actually All Trumps Unbleached Unbromated. I do like to do a 50/50 mix of AT and KAAP though!
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: Jersey Pie Boy on October 02, 2021, 09:03:30 PM
Mr. Satan,
Those are really great looking pies!
.had plenty of NYC pizza,and this looks top shelf. Way top.
Cheese/sauce balance looks quite optimal, actually modest in cheese in a good way..bottom nice and toasted.

Those are hella good pies, but of course, you're...well. you know  >:D
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: corkd on October 03, 2021, 09:23:03 AM
This round was actually All Trumps Unbleached Unbromated. I do like to do a 50/50 mix of AT and KAAP though!
Where in the oven do you place your steel for your favorite results? Those are great lookin pies.
Title: Re: NYC guy makes NYC pie
Post by: piesofsatan on October 03, 2021, 02:24:43 PM
Where in the oven do you place your steel for your favorite results? Those are great lookin pies.

Second from the bottom rack! My heat source is at the bottom.