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Author Topic: Pizza Canotto with Biga  (Read 59900 times)

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Offline plusacht

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Re: Pizza Canotto with Biga
« Reply #720 on: September 18, 2021, 09:33:37 PM »
For those just getting started with biga based pizzas or looking to learn from the Master - Marco Fuso, you're in luck!

Marco Fuso released a series of videos and an ebook in collaboration with Arla Pro, a cheese producer. You can access the ebook here:

https://www.arlapro.com/globalassets/arlapro/uk/passion-for-pizza/122211_mf_reciepe_book_low.pdf/Download

And you can watch the full playlist of Marco Fuso making pizzas here:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLlXOMSzNXTIsFDpBCi3qya11NIfIpsZOk

For those who'd like to see a pro mixing biga by hand, this video is very helpful. Marco shows his excellent method for hand mixing biga, and then he shows you a 100% biga dough recipe and bakes a pizza.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrPSNRYwiCk&list=PLlXOMSzNXTIsFDpBCi3qya11NIfIpsZOk&index=8&t=68s&ab_channel=ArlaPro.UK

Am I right to say he is using 100% BIGA in his video? So if I want these beautiful high airy crust this is only achievable with 100% BIGA or are there other methods?

Offline DoouBall

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Re: Pizza Canotto with Biga
« Reply #721 on: September 18, 2021, 10:18:29 PM »
Yes, that recipe is 100% biga because Marco doesn't add any flour - 100% of the flour is in the biga, so hence it is a 100% biga dough. The huge bubbles will come from any percent of biga starting from 20%, but the biggest bubbles and cornicione happen when using 60-100% biga, with 100% biga giving the tallest crusts, provided that the biga and dough are correctly formed and fermented.

It also helps to use a hydration of 70-75%, although that is more challenging to handle than the traditional 58-63% range for Neapolitan pizza.

However, decent results can also be achieved with 65% hydration. I wouldn't go any lower than this if you're going for a large rim with big bubbles.
Alex

Outdoor Oven: Blackstone. Indoor Oven: Gaggenau.

Offline plusacht

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Re: Pizza Canotto with Biga
« Reply #722 on: September 20, 2021, 07:58:59 PM »
Hello. Attached the results, after preparation and 48 hours later. Next up baking it.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2021, 08:03:51 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline DoouBall

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Re: Pizza Canotto with Biga
« Reply #723 on: September 20, 2021, 10:37:22 PM »
Hello. Attached the results, after preparation and 48 hours later. Next up baking it.

Looks pretty good. This time you're good - you can just let it rest, shape and bake. Next time I would fold your dough one or two more times before putting it to rest. The bulk dough should be smooth and homogeneous.
Alex

Outdoor Oven: Blackstone. Indoor Oven: Gaggenau.

Offline plusacht

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Re: Pizza Canotto with Biga
« Reply #724 on: September 20, 2021, 10:52:19 PM »
Looks pretty good. This time you're good - you can just let it rest, shape and bake. Next time I would fold your dough one or two more times before putting it to rest. The bulk dough should be smooth and homogeneous.

Yea you are right, it seems like preparing the dough is slightly under control. Next up is folding a wet/sticky dough to be smooth and homogeneous - this really needs practice. After this we can focus on stretching the dough before baking - long way to go. :)

Maybe one short question at the end: When u fold the dough are u using cold water (for your hands) or flour?

Thanks for help.

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Offline DoouBall

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Re: Pizza Canotto with Biga
« Reply #725 on: September 21, 2021, 12:04:10 AM »
I don't use flour for this stage - only water or oil, typically water because it's less messy for me. I recommend you to follow the folding method from Marco Fuso starting with 3:20s in this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlJCSVW2fzI&ab_channel=ArlaPro.UK

This works very well, but if your dough is not completely smooth, you may need to do this once, cover your dough with a large bowl, or oil it and then cover with plastic wrap and then walk away. Come back in 15 minutes and fold again. Once the dough is smooth, you are ready to put it away for a longer rest if doing bulk fermentation or divide and shape into balls depending on your process.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2021, 12:15:05 AM by DoouBall »
Alex

Outdoor Oven: Blackstone. Indoor Oven: Gaggenau.

Offline plusacht

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Re: Pizza Canotto with Biga
« Reply #726 on: September 23, 2021, 02:04:39 AM »
Trying my best here - now a 100% biga after kneading in kitchen aid. Doesnít look like in the video. Maybe the reason is that I used the biga right out of the fridge instead of room temperature? So it looks to me not really combined. Hydration is 65% but it was a mess when I tried to shape it. Not sure maybe even go down to 63%?

Offline Pete_da_Bayer

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Re: Pizza Canotto with Biga
« Reply #727 on: September 23, 2021, 06:29:03 AM »
Trying my best here - now a 100% biga after kneading in kitchen aid. Doesnít look like in the video. Maybe the reason is that I used the biga right out of the fridge instead of room temperature? So it looks to me not really combined. Hydration is 65% but it was a mess when I tried to shape it. Not sure maybe even go down to 63%?
Hi Plusacht,
you can try 2-3 stretch and folds every 15-30 minutes. This should smoothen out and strengthen the dough.
Cheers
Peter

Offline DoouBall

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Re: Pizza Canotto with Biga
« Reply #728 on: September 23, 2021, 01:35:21 PM »
KitchenAid is not ideal, but it's possible to make a biga based dough in one. If you're using a normal biga (45-50% hydration), then you can put soak your biga in some water for about 30 minutes prior to mixing. This will help soften the hard crusty bits on the outside and form a smoother dough. When mixing biga based doughs in the KitchenAid, I've had better success using the paddle hook - I found the dough hook to be pretty useless.

Peter's advice to do folds every 15 minutes until the dough is smooth might also help this time.

You could also consider using a sponge method which uses a 60% hydrated fridge biga also known as sponge - much easier to mix in a KitchenAid:

Alex

Outdoor Oven: Blackstone. Indoor Oven: Gaggenau.

Offline plusacht

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Re: Pizza Canotto with Biga
« Reply #729 on: September 23, 2021, 10:47:59 PM »
Thanks guys. You are referring to this one right?


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Offline plusacht

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Re: Pizza Canotto with Biga
« Reply #730 on: September 23, 2021, 10:59:11 PM »
KitchenAid is not ideal, but it's possible to make a biga based dough in one. If you're using a normal biga (45-50% hydration), then you can put soak your biga in some water for about 30 minutes prior to mixing. This will help soften the hard crusty bits on the outside and form a smoother dough. When mixing biga based doughs in the KitchenAid, I've had better success using the paddle hook - I found the dough hook to be pretty useless.

Peter's advice to do folds every 15 minutes until the dough is smooth might also help this time.

You could also consider using a sponge method which uses a 60% hydrated fridge biga also known as sponge - much easier to mix in a KitchenAid:



Thanks again, so what exactly is the sponge method? What I see in video is a 60% BIGA and the rest of the preparation is pretty much inline with the other videos you shared and I watched :)

As a next step I could do a 60% hydrated BIGA using the paddle hook?

Offline DoouBall

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Re: Pizza Canotto with Biga
« Reply #731 on: September 24, 2021, 01:59:30 AM »
Yes thatís the paddle hook.

Yes sponge is typically around 60% hydration but it is not a codified preferment like a biga - people do it in different ways. Some people even add salt to it but I donít think itís needed.

Itís a little easier to mix final dough with sponge. You may like it better if youíre struggling with biga.
Alex

Outdoor Oven: Blackstone. Indoor Oven: Gaggenau.

Offline plusacht

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Re: Pizza Canotto with Biga
« Reply #732 on: September 24, 2021, 04:39:25 AM »
Yes thatís the paddle hook.

Yes sponge is typically around 60% hydration but it is not a codified preferment like a biga - people do it in different ways. Some people even add salt to it but I donít think itís needed.

Itís a little easier to mix final dough with sponge. You may like it better if youíre struggling with biga.

Thank - I guess I need to practice more. Let me do another one with 60% BIGA and use the paddle. Also following your advise with putting it in water when it comes out of fridge. A bit of a hybrid between your earlier videos and the recent one you shared.

Offline Pete_da_Bayer

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Re: Pizza Canotto with Biga
« Reply #733 on: September 24, 2021, 06:15:55 AM »
Thank - I guess I need to practice more. Let me do another one with 60% BIGA and use the paddle. Also following your advise with putting it in water when it comes out of fridge. A bit of a hybrid between your earlier videos and the recent one you shared.
I suggest to practice with straight forward, direct doughs first, until you develop a feeling for the dough, fermentation and other steps, like opening the pie e.g.  Once you got a grip on that, you can start playing with preferments. Just an advice...

Offline DoouBall

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Re: Pizza Canotto with Biga
« Reply #734 on: September 24, 2021, 11:19:09 AM »
I completely agree with Pete. Direct dough is probably the way for you right now. No need to complicate things with preferments until youíve got the direct process down pat.
Alex

Outdoor Oven: Blackstone. Indoor Oven: Gaggenau.

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Offline DoouBall

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Re: Pizza Canotto with Biga
« Reply #735 on: September 26, 2021, 05:29:00 PM »
During the MasterBiga's podcast with Piergiorgio Giorilli, the master mentioned that for most pizzerias, a Long Direct dough with Autolyse is the best because it produces a nice canotto without the complexity of managing a biga. I found his recipe in Giorill's book "La Mia Pizza". Adapted to use instant dry yeast:

500g Polselli Vivace w290
350g water
12.5g salt
0.6g instant dry yeast (SAF Red)

Process:
1) Mix 500g flour with 275g water (55% hydration) in spiral mixer at 100rpm for 6 minutes on lowest speed to make an autolyse. Rest 1 hour at room temp. (Maybe resting in fridge is even better?)
2) Add yeast on top of autolyse and start mixing. Increase speed to 200 rpm and slowly add rest of water, bit by bit.
Salt added towards end of mixing.
3) Bulk 16H at 16C. Form balls.
4) Balls 2h at room temp, 21h in fridge at 3-4C, 3h room temp to warm up

I was very impressed with the puff from a direct dough - probably the puffiest direct I've gotten so far. Flavor was very good. Crust browning was much better than with biga doughs. Dough was just a little more chewy in the cornicione than my best biga doughs but not too bad. Overall, a very nice alternative to biga.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2021, 10:15:20 PM by DoouBall »
Alex

Outdoor Oven: Blackstone. Indoor Oven: Gaggenau.

Offline Icelandr

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Re: Pizza Canotto with Biga
« Reply #736 on: September 26, 2021, 06:12:52 PM »
Very Nice Looking Pizza!
Greg
PizzaParty 70x70, saputo floor

Offline DoouBall

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Re: Pizza Canotto with Biga
« Reply #737 on: September 26, 2021, 06:32:43 PM »
Alex

Outdoor Oven: Blackstone. Indoor Oven: Gaggenau.

Offline Pete_da_Bayer

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Re: Pizza Canotto with Biga
« Reply #738 on: September 27, 2021, 08:28:57 AM »
That is gorgeous. The crumb looks perfect to me! Another item on my to do list, thank you:) Can imagine, that a long, cold maturation of dough balls comes in handy for Pizzerias.

Offline davidholmes

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Re: Pizza Canotto with Biga
« Reply #739 on: September 27, 2021, 09:25:04 AM »
Thanks for all the great information here.

I am trying to use my sourdough starter with biga. I've had great luck following TXCraig's recipes and fermentation guides in the past, so as a starting point I've used 1% - 1.5% starter with 100% biga. I can't seem to ferment for more than one day at 15c/60f. At two days it seems like the gluten is destroyed. At 24 hours I get great results with a big puffy crust. I can't really measure less than 1% starter accurately, so it might be harder to reduce the starter amount. I can possibly reduce the temperature, but that starts to feel too cold, and previously with poolish 15c seemed to be the sweet spot for my starter. 

What is the maximum fermentation time for 100% biga with sourdough?

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