Oven within oven: Will this config. work? (pic)

[Santo]

I have often contemplated the oven within an oven idea.  Would this oven configuration help me (photo below)?

I realize that my 16-in round Stone leaves open space on its left and right sides but if my square Lloyd's 14x14 pan is directly below the stone , would this fit the bill for something that will aid, even to some small extent, in better top heat for my Sicilian pies?

I do cook them on my bottom rack for the intense bottom heat for 5 minutes and then the rest of the three minutes bake are in the middle rack.  if I leave it longer than 5 minutes on the bottom it begins to burn. I'm pretty happy with how this cooks the bottom of my pizza but the cheese is a little pale.

Basically i have been achieving good results on the bottom of my sicilian pizza but the top cheese is not getting enough of a good/thorough melt or slight browning. I have attached pics of the oven within the oven configuration i am considering, and pics of my cheese melt vs the cheese melt i want to achieve (the pic is from a local Brooklyn NY pizza place i think has great pizza.)

My post about my cheese melt issue is here: https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=74038.msg707367#msg707367 .

 Thank you very much.

[texmex]

Yes, placing that stone above will change the way the top of the pie bakes.
I had to move stones around in my oven often before I created the oven within an oven you speak of. One of my best scenarios in home oven included using a cast iron lid with my stone placed atop to bake the pie on, and another stone on the rack above. I have also laid down a strip of foil across the back part of a shelf to trap the heat in that smaller area.

[Santo]

Yes, placing that stone above will change the way the top of the pie bakes.
I had to move stones around in my oven often before I created the oven within an oven you speak of. One of my best scenarios in home oven included using a cast iron lid with my stone placed atop to bake the pie on, and another stone on the rack above. I have also laid down a strip of foil across the back part of a shelf to trap the heat in that smaller area.

Interesting. Should i be preheating this stone for 1 hour even though my sicilian pan will be placed under it and at no point will it be actually on top of the stone? And also, how was the cast iron lid used in your situation? Do you have any pictures of that?

[texmex]

The amount of time your stone is preheated will change results.  I would try it first by merely using this configuration with your normal workflow of getting the oven and stone to temp and bake your sicilian. If you see some results, but not optimal, try heating the stone longer or use a strip of foil along the back of the shelf where your stone is.
My cast iron/stone configuration was to get added heat on the bottom of the pizzas when I had to move my bake up from using the bottom shelf where my crust would burn on the stone. It would not brown optimally one shelf up, so I balanced the stone on the cast iron lid, and it was a good bake there. I do have pictures, let me find them.

[texmex]

I have spotty memory from burnt crusts, stones, and broiler use, etc. 6 years ago. Here is a pic of the stone on the upside down lid in oven, with stone above and looks like foil used as well, plus another where I used 2 stones, foil and forgot the cast iron. ( reply numbr 48 and also number 52).
https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=14714.msg414166#msg414166

[Santo]

The amount of time your stone is preheated will change results.  I would try it first by merely using this configuration with your normal workflow of getting the oven and stone to temp and bake your sicilian. If you see some results, but not optimal, try heating the stone longer or use a strip of foil along the back of the shelf where your stone is.

Thanks for your help. Do you mean that I should just preheat the oven until it reaches 550, and then bake (takes 15-20 minutes from cold oven to get to 550)? Or do you mean that i should wait until the stone is preheated to 550 also (this may take about an hour - i am not sure because i don't have one of those infrared thermometers) - i normally preheat the stone for an hour for my ny style pizzas so i assume thats how long it takes for the stone to get to that temp or whereabouts.

is the stone there merely to discourage the heat to just rise up to the top of the oven and it traps it a little bit, to stick around and heat the top of my pizza like a little chamber of heat? Or is it to be a really hot stone that serves that purpose plus the added benefit that it is scorching hot and eminating its own heat down to the pizza only several inches below?

[texmex]

Thanks for your help. Do you mean that I should just preheat the oven until it reaches 550, and then bake (takes 15-20 minutes from cold oven to get to 550)? Or do you mean that i should wait until the stone is preheated to 550 also (this may take about an hour - i am not sure because i don't have one of those infrared thermometers) - i normally preheat the stone for an hour for my ny style pizzas so i assume thats how long it takes for the stone to get to that temp or whereabouts.

is the stone there merely to discourage the heat to just rise up to the top of the oven and it traps it a little bit, to stick around and heat the top of my pizza like a little chamber of heat? Or is it to be a really hot stone that serves that purpose plus the added benefit that it is scorching hot and eminating its own heat down to the pizza only several inches below?

Both.
The stone holds heat, but it also creates a new top of oven scenario. I would not worry about getting the stone hotter than hot for your first try. Just go about your usual bake plus stone when the temp reads 550. If it doesn't help proceed with adding a strip of foil, if that isn't enough do the saturated heat for the stone.

[Santo]

My cast iron/stone configuration was to get added heat on the bottom of the pizzas when I had to move my bake up from using the bottom shelf where my crust would burn on the stone. It would not brown optimally one shelf up, so I balanced the stone on the cast iron lid, and it was a good bake there. I do have pictures, let me find them.

So if it was on the bottom rack you were getting burned, but the next rack up you were not getting brown enough, but if it was on the bottom rack + height from inverted lid, it was good? That is a great legend congrats for figuring it out. Only on this website can you find a story like that. I'm gonna try out the stone on top of the lloyds pan this weekend, i'll let you know what happens. thanks.

[Santo]

Both.
The stone holds heat, but it also creates a new top of oven scenario. I would not worry about getting the stone hotter than hot for your first try. Just go about your usual bake plus stone when the temp reads 550. If it doesn't help proceed with adding a strip of foil, if that isn't enough do the saturated heat for the stone.

I am considering trying something like this for my NY style pies. I have a big stainless steel lasagna pan thats good for roasting turkeys. Do you think it would work as well, to put this heavy pan on the rack above the stone, for an NY style pie?

[texmex]

I am considering trying something like this for my NY style pies. I have a big stainless steel lasagna pan thats good for roasting turkeys. Do you think it would work as well, to put this heavy pan on the rack above the stone, for an NY style pie?

I hope you find the stone above your Sicilian helps the cheese melt!
As far as using your stainless steel pan above the stone for N.Y. pizza, I would be reluctant with an empty pan. I think it would badly warp your lasagna pan. I would try covering the rack above with foil. It will provide the lower ceiling without sacrificing your pan to harsh treatment. Always remove foil from the oven after you are done. My stone temps rose an extra 100 degrees or so by creating this smaller slot to bake pizza in my home oven.  I have seen others who use fire brick splits or terracotta in the oven to create similar configurations of the oven within an oven.  It may take many tries and depends on where your main heat source comes from. My gas oven is very small and has all heat coming from a separate broiler drawer at the bottom of the oven. There are several threads about home oven tricks to assist your bakes.  One of my favorites: Making the most of your home oven: https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=37996.0

[Santo]

I hope you find the stone above your Sicilian helps the cheese melt!
As far as using your stainless steel pan above the stone for N.Y. pizza, I would be reluctant with an empty pan. I think it would badly warp your lasagna pan. I would try covering the rack above with foil. It will provide the lower ceiling without sacrificing your pan to harsh treatment. Always remove foil from the oven after you are done. My stone temps rose an extra 100 degrees or so by creating this smaller slot to bake pizza in my home oven.  I have seen others who use fire brick splits or terracotta in the oven to create similar configurations of the oven within an oven.  It may take many tries and depends on where your main heat source comes from. My gas oven is very small and has all heat coming from a separate broiler drawer at the bottom of the oven. There are several threads about home oven tricks to assist your bakes.  One of my favorites: Making the most of your home oven: https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=37996.0

Yes my oven is a gas oven which has all of the heat coming from the bottom as well. It has a convection bake and convection roast mode as well. I have noticed that all pizza related endeavors only succeed if everything is done at the bottom rack. I am not complaining about that exactly because i feel like i've been pretty fortunate with some success (after many many tries of course). So since i'm always doing things at the bottom I do have limitations getting top heat.

So just tinfoil is enough to trap the heat? Should i be covering all possible space on the rack above my stone or just focus on the area directly above the stone? I Guess putting as much foil as possible to cover like every inch of space is going to make the biggest difference.

I will check that thread out. Thanks.

[texmex]

Placement of foil in my oven has more to do with the vents in the ceiling of my oven. There are many circular vents at the back portion, none in the front portion of the ceiling.  My oven is always hotter at the back wall, so I placed my foil only at the back half of the upper rack to force that heat to roll over the pie towards the front.  You will have to experiment. I don't recall the melting point for foil, but I used heavy duty and it did not melt at temps in the mid 600's.

[T-bone]

I have the Lloyd's 14x14x1.5 Sicilian pan. 

I cook all my pan pizzas on a 1/4" pizza steel on the lowest rack position, at 500 degrees bake (no broiler).  I preheat for 1 hour although 45 minutes might suffice for 1/4" steel. I've posted pics here in forum.

For grandma, Sicilian, and pizza Hut pan style, I usually use 3-4 tablespoons of olive oil.  Tonight I used 2 tablespoons of butter flavored Crisco.  This was a 10 minute bake.  See pics.

Edit:
We don't mind that the cheese has a Browning effect throughout most of it. With only splotches of white mozzella peeking through.  But the crust always has a nice Browning effect. Putting it directly on a piece of steel on the lowest rack I think is the way to go.  If we wanted to limit the Browning of our cheese we could easily regulate that by putting a aluminum sheet pan above the pizza.  Or we could parbake crust.

Edit2:
Chiming in mainly the show that the crust can be cooked as well as the cheese if you just up the temperature of your oven.  But based on pictures alone, your pizza looks much nicer than mine :-)