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Author Topic: 00 flour vs bread flour  (Read 1130 times)

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Offline caltheide

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00 flour vs bread flour
« on: May 20, 2022, 02:09:11 PM »
All other thing being equal, and in a home oven, what will be the difference in the finished crust between a dough using 00 caputo flour, King Arthur bread flour and King Arthur high gluten flour?

Offline Deluca50

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Re: 00 flour vs bread flour
« Reply #1 on: May 21, 2022, 11:10:33 AM »
Hello, I normally use bread flour for he simple reason that the recipe Iíve tinkered with for so long calls for it. I have tried 00 twice. My experience was a nice crips crust on the outside and a bit chewier on the inside. Not a lot. I noticed the difference because I was looking for it. My wife couldnít tell the difference. I sorta set her up by asking after she ate it and also comparing what she had a week before. It wasnít a side by side comparison. I havenít used high gluten flour though. Sorry.

Offline caltheide

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Re: 00 flour vs bread flour
« Reply #2 on: May 21, 2022, 01:12:06 PM »
Thank you :)

Offline 02ebz06

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Re: 00 flour vs bread flour
« Reply #3 on: May 21, 2022, 01:15:45 PM »
00 flour needs higher temps to brown that a home oven can't provide, without adding sugar or DMP to the recipe.
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Offline jsaras

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Re: 00 flour vs bread flour
« Reply #4 on: May 21, 2022, 01:22:23 PM »
All other thing being equal, and in a home oven, what will be the difference in the finished crust between a dough using 00 caputo flour, King Arthur bread flour and King Arthur high gluten flour?

If you don't know the specific reason to use Caputo 00 in your formulation, then you probably shouldn't be using it. 
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Offline QwertyJuan

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Re: 00 flour vs bread flour
« Reply #5 on: May 21, 2022, 11:17:44 PM »
The difference? HUGE... the bread flour will give you better browning and more rise as opposed to Caputo 00.

FWIW, even in my deck oven at 650, I don't get good rise or browning out of Caputo 00. It doesn't make a bad pizza at that temp.... but it's not a great pizza.

Offline PizzaPassion

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Re: 00 flour vs bread flour
« Reply #6 on: June 09, 2022, 04:55:03 PM »
I may be one of the least experienced people on this panel but I was extremely disappointed in Caputo 00 in my home oven. I wanted to use the same flour as the professionals but I didn't have the equipment or experience that the professionals have. As for bread flour I've been using Bob's Red Mill Artisan Flour with good results. I'm constantly tweaking this or that in search of the perfect crust but honestly think my results will be limited due to the limitations of a home oven. I've thought about purchasing a Ooni pizza oven but the last thing I need is something else cluttering my home and besides that they seem very small. So for now I'll just keep on tweaking and having some fun with pizza making.

Online Pete-zza

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Re: 00 flour vs bread flour
« Reply #7 on: June 09, 2022, 05:16:07 PM »
I may be one of the least experienced people on this panel but I was extremely disappointed in Caputo 00 in my home oven. I wanted to use the same flour as the professionals but I didn't have the equipment or experience that the professionals have. As for bread flour I've been using Bob's Red Mill Artisan Flour with good results. I'm constantly tweaking this or that in search of the perfect crust but honestly think my results will be limited due to the limitations of a home oven. I've thought about purchasing a Ooni pizza oven but the last thing I need is something else cluttering my home and besides that they seem very small. So for now I'll just keep on tweaking and having some fun with pizza making.
PizzaPassion,

Several of our members have used Caputo 00 flour combined with another flour in order to increase the flour's combined protein content and thereby improve the performance of the dough in a home oven. In some cases, this combination flour approach has been used to allow members to use up their Caputo 00 flour rather than discarding it.

There is even a tool that can be used to make different flour blends with different protein values for the blends. It was created by one of our very smart and talented members FoodSim. The tool is the Mixed Mass Percentage Calculator at:

https://foodsim.toastguard.com/

Peter

Offline PizzaPassion

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Re: 00 flour vs bread flour
« Reply #8 on: June 09, 2022, 07:38:49 PM »
PizzaPassion,

Several of our members have used Caputo 00 flour combined with another flour in order to increase the flour's combined protein content and thereby improve the performance of the dough in a home oven. In some cases, this combination flour approach has been used to allow members to use up their Caputo 00 flour rather than discarding it.

There is even a tool that can be used to make different flour blends with different protein values for the blends. It was created by one of our very smart and talented members FoodSim. The tool is the Mixed Mass Percentage Calculator at:

https://foodsim.toastguard.com/

Peter
Thanks Peter. My Caputo flour days were years ago when I thought all I needed to make professional dough was professional flour and my Kitchen Aid mixer and dough hook. Little did I know that the seemingly endless combination of 5 or 6 ingredients in combination with mixing, kneading, resting, degasing, fermenting and baking all contribute to this simple disc that we call a pizza dough. I honestly don't know why it has captivated me as it has but every week I tweak something a little different and tell my wife that this weeks pizza will be the best ever. Guess it's all part of the fun. Thanks Again.

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: 00 flour vs bread flour
« Reply #9 on: June 10, 2022, 12:26:48 PM »
All other thing being equal, and in a home oven, what will be the difference in the finished crust between a dough using 00 caputo flour, King Arthur bread flour and King Arthur high gluten flour?

Other than the bread flour giving you better browning, the main difference is that your wallet will be fatter if you avoid the 00.
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Online 9slicePie

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Re: 00 flour vs bread flour
« Reply #10 on: June 10, 2022, 12:46:40 PM »
I've thought about purchasing a Ooni pizza oven but the last thing I need is something else cluttering my home and besides that they seem very small.

FWIW, their 16-inch ovens aren't that small.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2022, 12:49:26 PM by 9slicePie »

Offline joelouw

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Re: 00 flour vs bread flour
« Reply #11 on: June 18, 2022, 07:21:43 AM »
my 2cents worth, I am a full-on advocate for the 00, mainly because it's a light and strong flour. What I mean by that are the flour are strong and can handle much more stretching (you know those guys that flip the pizza dough in the air and spin it around to make the dough circle bigger. You know the old fashioned Italian pizza flour.
But the main reason are the fact that the flour are light and where ladies generally do not eat more than one pizza with normal bread flour the laddies that had the 00 flour pizza say they can eat more plus they do not feel so bloated or full. It's very light.
At least that is my expirance and I have been making pizzas the last 7 years only using the 00 and do not look back. I use it in ALL my baked recipies, from Cinnamon rolls to pasta.

Offline QwertyJuan

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Re: 00 flour vs bread flour
« Reply #12 on: June 18, 2022, 10:12:39 PM »
my 2cents worth, I am a full-on advocate for the 00, mainly because it's a light and strong flour. What I mean by that are the flour are strong and can handle much more stretching (you know those guys that flip the pizza dough in the air and spin it around to make the dough circle bigger. You know the old fashioned Italian pizza flour.
But the main reason are the fact that the flour are light and where ladies generally do not eat more than one pizza with normal bread flour the laddies that had the 00 flour pizza say they can eat more plus they do not feel so bloated or full. It's very light.
At least that is my expirance and I have been making pizzas the last 7 years only using the 00 and do not look back. I use it in ALL my baked recipies, from Cinnamon rolls to pasta.

What brand of flour are you using?

Offline RHawthorne

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Re: 00 flour vs bread flour
« Reply #13 on: June 18, 2022, 11:12:13 PM »
PizzaPassion,

Several of our members have used Caputo 00 flour combined with another flour in order to increase the flour's combined protein content and thereby improve the performance of the dough in a home oven. In some cases, this combination flour approach has been used to allow members to use up their Caputo 00 flour rather than discarding it.

There is even a tool that can be used to make different flour blends with different protein values for the blends. It was created by one of our very smart and talented members FoodSim. The tool is the Mixed Mass Percentage Calculator at:

https://foodsim.toastguard.com/

Peter
You rang? I'm definitely one of those people, especially lately. I use it to get a little bit more aeration in my cornicciones, but I've had excellent results with just straight bread flour, too. I don't advocate the use of "00" flour exclusively for anybody just using a home oven, though, unless they're using it for a very specific purpose and are prepared to take the time to handle the learning curve. But it must also be said that it is well suited for thick crust pan pizzas, especially when using a preferment such as poolish. Truth be told, I often like the results I get with "0" flour just as much or better most of the time, though.
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Offline Essen1

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Re: 00 flour vs bread flour
« Reply #14 on: June 18, 2022, 11:16:35 PM »
Caputo makes a bunch of different flours, ranging from Type 00 to Type 1.

The numbers after the name usually indicate the grind, with 00 being the finest. Most Caputo flours are ill suited for a home oven. You'll need a flour with an added browing agent in it, such as malt.

Craig already said that a bread flour is a good substitute. If you want to take it a step further, go with Central Milling's Tony Gemignani's 00 flour.

You'll be surprised 😯
Mike

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Offline RHawthorne

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Re: 00 flour vs bread flour
« Reply #15 on: June 18, 2022, 11:17:58 PM »
If you don't know the specific reason to use Caputo 00 in your formulation, then you probably shouldn't be using it.
I think a lot of newer pizza makers aren't aware that there is a specific purpose for it at all. And to be fair, even if you don't get the kind of results you want with it in a home oven, it's still worthwhile to get a feel for how it handles, and it can make a great pan pizza. In those kinds of applications, where you're getting browning from the pan, it's still a solid choice.
If we're not questioning the reason for our existence, then what the hell are we doing here?!

Offline Cheazy E

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Re: 00 flour vs bread flour
« Reply #16 on: June 18, 2022, 11:34:34 PM »
Truth be told, I often like the results I get with "0" flour just as much or better most of the time, though.

Me too. I really dig the Caputo Nuvola Super Type 0 for Neapolitan.

Caputo makes a bunch of different flours, ranging from Type 00 to Type 1.

Their Americana is really nice. I still prefer to blend it with bread flour, but itís malted and a good choice for home ovens for folks who want to work with 00.

I think a lot of newer pizza makers aren't aware that there is a specific purpose for it at all.

I started making pizzas at home about two years ago and there are a lot of YouTube tutorials and sites that promote both 00 and 70% hydration. Theyíre presented as the secrets to good at home pizza. 

I guess the good news there is that when you learn to successfully make dough and stretch a pizza with those two elements, when you shift to bread flour and ~60% hydration, itís like kicking the game down from hard to normal difficulty. :P

Offline joelouw

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Re: 00 flour vs bread flour
« Reply #17 on: June 19, 2022, 07:16:18 AM »
I use Molino Soncini Cesare (GREEN) - Think it's from Italy. I get it from a local Italian supplier.
If you lie to have you proving to be 24 hours go for the RED, with the highest protein level.

See the images attached.

Joe

Offline QwertyJuan

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Re: 00 flour vs bread flour
« Reply #18 on: June 19, 2022, 10:34:13 PM »
So let me get this straight. In your experience, "Ladies" can eat more pizza if it's made with 00 flour vs. a bread flour?

Offline joelouw

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Re: 00 flour vs bread flour
« Reply #19 on: June 20, 2022, 12:02:48 AM »
:-) and men

Basically the 00 flour pizza does not fill you up as much as the normal bread flour pizza.

This data (experience) comes from an Italian Jamie Oliver restaurant too.

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