How did she make the Sicilian Pizza?

[jim2022]

GCPizza,

"You might want to try lowering your hydration to 58% on your next attempt and see how that works."

I have been bouncing around from one recipe to the next, but I really like the latest one I came across.

I will do as you suggest ( reduce the H2O ) but keep everything else the same, and be careful with the foil especially after it comes out the oven.

Not only would I like to come up with specific weights for all ingredients in grams, but be able to share those with others here.  Also the pan is 13" x 9.5" by measuring the outer most dimensions. It has a slope to the side of the pan on all sides that's where I came up with those other smaller dimensions. I actually think that slope is pretty cool rather than being, "straight down". The slight angle helps to get the pizza out at least.

Thanks for your input on this pizza making expedition for a few months here, really it has been on and off for like 20 yrs .

Jim F.

[gcpizza]

I will do as you suggest ( reduce the H2O ) but keep everything else the same, and be careful with the foil especially after it comes out the oven.

To keep the crust from getting soggy and losing its crisp, when it comes out of the oven immediately remove it from the pan and go straight to a cooling rack. Don't cover it and let it steam off for 5 to 10 minutes before moving it to a cutting board, cutting and then back to the cooling rack.  Or do it like Grandma Gina and leave it on the cooling rack and use kitchen scissors to cut it.

[jim2022]

Hi GCPizza,

"To keep the crust from getting soggy and losing its crisp"  I saw this and I think you misunderstood what I was saying. Historically I have ruined many pizza's by just letting it sit out and not using any foil.

Most of the pizza's I have made end up in some way rock hard. I figured with the latest pizza ( the mangia bedda recipe ), I would add the foil to stop the rock hard state. But I kept the foil on too long and went from what I believe would have been rock hard to very soggy. I use this technique with bread almost, except I use a large plastic bag to control the rock hard state. So I put the bread into a plastic bag and keep testing the crust until I get the exact crunch I am looking for.

However having said that I will take a look at that video you posted.

Thanks,

Jim

[gcpizza]

But basically I used the 2nd rack from the bottom, set the oven to convection bake and set the temp to 425F.

The pan was very lightly oiled and the dough was pressed in after allowing 2 hrs for the first rise. The second rise ( about 30 mins for this ) was done while the sauce was added near the start of the second rise.

When you say "rock hard" do you mean the whole crust or just the exposed edges?

When I made the dough recipe that was at 45% hydration it was dense, but it wasn't "hard". I think that 45% hydration was too low, but otherwise the recipe worked.

I know that you're following a recipe, but you are getting away from temperature requirement in your original post of 350° F. Using 425° plus convection is getting you into pizza temperatures rather than the lower temperature you remember as well as the lower temperatures in many recipes that I read. The recipe that I followed baked at 375° (no convection) and it baked perfectly. That recipe also had a second 30 minute rise in the pan, but did not add the sauce until after that rise. The first rise was also done in a greased bowl and punched down. At 45% hydration the dough seemed like Silly Putty and I didn't think it was going to work, but it actually stretched really easy.

The above is just letting you know what worked for me hopefully giving you ideas as to what you can try to fix the issues that you're experiencing.

[jim2022]

Hi GCPizza,

"I know that you're following a recipe, but you are getting away from temperature requirement in your original post of 350° F"

My original thought was to try to recreate a pizza from some of the highlights of what I remember. And now I am thinking, I know the final goal and this last pizza is close to the final goal so keep tweaking this latest recipe to reach it. Maybe as you suggest using a bit less water.

The rock hard reference could mean just the undercarriage with a thick layer of crust growing maybe 1/8" straight up or just most of the crust. I can't be more specific because this rock hard reference takes into account many failed attempts over the years with many different recipes.

I believe your pizza came out the way you said it did, and for me I am going to stick with the mangiabedda recipe. There is no mention of convection oven in her recipe, I added that to cook the pizza faster than regular 350F oven setting. I was thinking faster cooking means less water escaping and therefore a overall softer crust. I was guessing the crust was going to be not what I want if I went with the regular oven setting. Overall I know this is not necessary since my mom never had convection bake as an option. But for now I am going to keep the convection bake setting. If everything comes together the way it is supposed to, then as a last option just use the bake setting and see what happens then.

Thanks,
Jim

[gcpizza]

At this point there have been enough changes to the recipe that you can start calling it your recipe instead of the mangiabedda recipe 😉.

If the undercarriage is browning too much or too fast, try baking it on a middle rack and lower the temperature, first by turning off convection. At this point, I don't think that you necessarily have a dough formula problem, rather a temperature and/or heat balance issue which in home pizza making is one of the toughest problems to solve. It seems like with each bake you are getting closer to your desired result. I look forward to seeing your final results.

[Pizza-Face]

Convection, which is airflow, by definition means more moisture removal.

[gcpizza]

At this point there have been enough changes to the recipe that you can start calling it your recipe instead of the mangiabedda recipe 😉.

If the undercarriage is browning too much or too fast, try baking it on a middle rack and lower the temperature, first by turning off convection. At this point, I don't think that you necessarily have a dough formula problem, rather a temperature and/or heat balance issue which in home pizza making is one of the toughest problems to solve. It seems like with each bake you are getting closer to your desired result. I look forward to seeing your final results.

If you're going to continue to bake at higher temperatures, you might consider reducing the sugar from the almost 3% to 1-2%. That much sugar and baking at higher temperatures is likely contributing to the "hardness" you have described.

[James P]

I haven’t made Sicilian pizza in the outdoor oven yet. But I wanted to share a memory I had as kid in NY and spent some time in the local pizzeria. I remember when Romeo made Sicilian pizza, it was the same dough, only he allowed the dough rise in the pan first, and cook it twice. Oil on the bottom, and cook the first time and allowed to cool. Second cook with topping. Not sure this helps, just wanted to share a memory d for 35+ years ago. Good luck and let us know the results.