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Author Topic: Modernist Pizza  (Read 5727 times)

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Offline Bill/SFNM

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Re: Modernist Pizza
« Reply #40 on: October 09, 2021, 11:05:15 PM »
All questions about what is permissible on this site should be directed to Steve.

Offline bakerbill

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Re: Modernist Pizza
« Reply #41 on: October 12, 2021, 10:04:19 AM »
OK, I paid the full $425 for this three volume tome. Whether it was worth the price will take some time as it runs for about a thousand pages and weighs a ton. It would be unfair to write a fair review at this time, but I have a few impressions. First, the recipe for artisan pizza dough which is cited often provides no information that is not already available to readers of this forum and all this after supposedly countless experiments. The recipe lists water temp but no reference to temperature formulas as other books do, Also, there is no mention of stretch and fold techniques which I have found in other recipes and have found to be helpful. Second, after all their sleuthing about the great pizzerias of this world, why not dig deeper and find out what the recipe is for Nancy Silvertonís pizza which I have found outstanding. (The recipe in her book is not the same as used in the restaurant). The final test will come when the recipes are tried and eaten. Until then the jury is still out.

Offline DoouBall

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Re: Modernist Pizza
« Reply #42 on: October 12, 2021, 11:25:36 AM »
OK, I paid the full $425 for this three volume tome. Whether it was worth the price will take some time as it runs for about a thousand pages and weighs a ton. It would be unfair to write a fair review at this time, but I have a few impressions. First, the recipe for artisan pizza dough which is cited often provides no information that is not already available to readers of this forum and all this after supposedly countless experiments. The recipe lists water temp but no reference to temperature formulas as other books do, Also, there is no mention of stretch and fold techniques which I have found in other recipes and have found to be helpful. Second, after all their sleuthing about the great pizzerias of this world, why not dig deeper and find out what the recipe is for Nancy Silvertonís pizza which I have found outstanding. (The recipe in her book is not the same as used in the restaurant). The final test will come when the recipes are tried and eaten. Until then the jury is still out.

Thanks for your pre-review. If you love Mozza pizza, have a quick look at TxCraig's wonderful thread about Mozza inspired pizza baked in a home oven. I've tried this method with was happy with the result. 

The thread start:

https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=36346.0

My results:

https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=36346.msg468025#msg468025
« Last Edit: October 12, 2021, 11:28:44 AM by DoouBall »
Alex

Outdoor Oven: Blackstone. Indoor Oven: Gaggenau.

Offline SonVolt

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Re: Modernist Pizza
« Reply #43 on: October 13, 2021, 08:22:46 AM »
(The recipe in her book is not the same as used in the restaurant).



This drives me absolutely nuts and it's far too common in restaurant-themed cookbooks.

Offline DoouBall

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Re: Modernist Pizza
« Reply #44 on: October 13, 2021, 11:24:06 AM »


This drives me absolutely nuts and it's far too common in restaurant-themed cookbooks.

It drives me absolutely nuts as well. Same story for Chris Bianco's cookbook. My guess is that these chefs are afraid of losing their competitive edge or losing customers by releasing their most prized recipes. However, customers are always asking them for recipes so they need to provide them something, and hence we get these watered-down recipes. It's a shame really. Luckily, there are many other chefs more than willing to give us the real deal.
Alex

Outdoor Oven: Blackstone. Indoor Oven: Gaggenau.

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Offline amolapizza

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Re: Modernist Pizza
« Reply #45 on: October 13, 2021, 01:29:47 PM »
I think that there are no real secrets..

It's all down to the knowledge and skill of the pizzaiolo, and the oven!

Sure there is a lot to learn, and there are things that are done differently with different styles, but there is no recipe as such.  I can give you all my recipe (which I do), and your pizza will come out differently!
Jack

Effeuno P134H (500C), Biscotto Fornace Saputo, Sunmix Sun6, Caputo Pizzeria, Caputo Saccorosso, Mutti Pelati.

Offline Bill/SFNM

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Re: Modernist Pizza
« Reply #46 on: October 13, 2021, 01:33:39 PM »

I'm curious to understand the target audience and how one fills 1700 pages in a way that makes that audience feel they got value.

Offline RHawthorne

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Re: Modernist Pizza
« Reply #47 on: October 14, 2021, 01:58:24 AM »
I'm curious to understand the target audience and how one fills 1700 pages in a way that makes that audience feel they got value.
Dare I say it, I suspect that you may have already nailed it in one of your earlier posts when you said the book contained "mind numbing detail". I'm wondering if the extreme length of the work is meant to serve the purpose of doing exactly that, and ultimately driving some people to conclude that they're in way over their head, and that pizza just isn't for them, and thus also concluding that the author must be the world's foremost authority on the subject. I don't know; maybe I'm way off base and not making sense, but I am highly perplexed by the idea of just exactly what makes any author of pizza cookbooks think that a 1,700 page text will do anything other than completely lose the interest of even the most devout pizza fanatic. Maybe I'm crazy, but I think that what people need to keep moving along in the right direction in their pursuit of great pizza is live, interactive, open source, real time, cooperative, hands-on activity- such as the kind of thing we've got going on here, not reading some supposedly all-encompassing tome of information in written form. Call me crazy, but that's my reaction to this book.
If we're not questioning the reason for our existence, then what the hell are we doing here?!

Offline artaxares

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Re: Modernist Pizza
« Reply #48 on: October 14, 2021, 07:14:21 PM »
Have you guys seen Modernist bread from the same authors? It's not all about going into mind numbing details, it's more of an encyclopedia, they put everything from history and origin stories to various recipes. Authors divide content from really scientific stuff to home oriented and it's pretty easy to navigate and find your level of understanding and follow those techniques and recipes for your own level of knowledge and equipment.
I'd actually say those books are for active hobbyists because they are too large for someone who just wants to make quick bread/pizza and they aren't as deep as some really scientific works. It's really a shame that these books are just so damn expensive that most people in that audience just can't afford them. For 100$ I'd buy them without blinking, but 400$ is pretty steep price.

Offline SpiceChef

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You're all kidding yourselves...
« Reply #49 on: October 17, 2021, 08:28:10 PM »
if you really believe that you won't learn anything new or that the authors are just regurgitating publicly available information from other cookbooks or whatever, you really have no idea what the Modernist Cuisine people do.   Need proof without buying the books?

Watch this video and tell me you're doing these things.  You're not.  I already know it.


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Offline TXCraig1

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Re: You're all kidding yourselves...
« Reply #50 on: October 18, 2021, 08:17:21 AM »
I always wonder about the folks who register and their first real post is promoting a cookbook.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, baker's yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
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Offline DoouBall

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Re: You're all kidding yourselves...
« Reply #51 on: October 18, 2021, 12:24:51 PM »
I always wonder about the folks who register and their first real post is promoting a cookbook.

Totally. I watched parts of the video for fun - Francisco sure has some nice toys! Most of them, like his freeze drier or his suspended camera, have nothing to do with making pizza. I imagine the Modernist team put a lot of effort into this and may even offer some good insights. I'm just not sure they're worth $425. Also if you watch the video, he does make a decent Neapolitan pizza, but the cheese is not properly melted and he tries to demonstrate the Neapolitan slap and does it completely wrong.

Meanwhile, you can pre-order Joy of Pizza by Dan Richer of Razza for $32 or get The Pizza Bible for $20 or just simply read our forums and learn for free from people who have been making far more (and likely better) pizzas than the modernist team could do in a couple of years of experiments for the book.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2021, 01:40:17 PM by DoouBall »
Alex

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Offline Bobino414

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Re: You're all kidding yourselves...
« Reply #52 on: October 18, 2021, 02:20:55 PM »
I think the video is interesting.

Re: Modernist Pizza Book

Scam Alert:  Amazon listed the hardback 1708 pages for $382.50 and the paperback 32 pages for $250.  Packaging looks the same but author is different.
« Last Edit: October 18, 2021, 02:23:25 PM by Bobino414 »

Offline amolapizza

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Re: You're all kidding yourselves...
« Reply #53 on: October 18, 2021, 04:28:14 PM »
Nice video and toys!

He made a nice looking pizza, but I was somewhat disappointed that it wasn't a molecular pizza!  :D :D :D
Jack

Effeuno P134H (500C), Biscotto Fornace Saputo, Sunmix Sun6, Caputo Pizzeria, Caputo Saccorosso, Mutti Pelati.

Online ARenko

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Re: Modernist Pizza
« Reply #54 on: October 19, 2021, 05:14:03 PM »
Watch this video and tell me you're doing these things.  You're not.  I already know it

Tell me why we'd want to do all those things.

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Offline werty20

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Re: Modernist Pizza
« Reply #55 on: October 19, 2021, 05:16:11 PM »
just watched modernist pizza ig live with tony g, he went to 4-5 h fermentation now !

Offline amolapizza

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Re: Modernist Pizza
« Reply #56 on: October 19, 2021, 05:17:33 PM »
Tell me why we'd want to do all those things.

To make a cherry sized object that explodes with pizza margherita taste and costs $5! :)
Jack

Effeuno P134H (500C), Biscotto Fornace Saputo, Sunmix Sun6, Caputo Pizzeria, Caputo Saccorosso, Mutti Pelati.

Offline wb54885

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Re: Modernist Pizza
« Reply #57 on: October 19, 2021, 07:46:35 PM »
I'm curious to understand the target audience and how one fills 1700 pages in a way that makes that audience feel they got value.

Based on this categorization, Iíd say the target audience is rich folk who have $400 to spend on a set of picture books.

And, of course, Larry (thezaman) who is obsessed and deserves a free copy and editing rights  :-D
« Last Edit: October 19, 2021, 07:59:07 PM by wb54885 »
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Offline Bill/SFNM

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Re: You're all kidding yourselves...
« Reply #58 on: October 19, 2021, 09:10:10 PM »
if you really believe that you won't learn anything new or that the authors are just regurgitating publicly available information from other cookbooks or whatever, you really have no idea what the Modernist Cuisine people do. 

I had a lot of fun with the first book, Modernist Cuisine, trying many new techniques; I did indeed learn quite a bit from it. (For example, the caramelized carrot soup was a revelation. I've applied that technique to other soups and blown away anyone who has tried it.)

But Modernist Bread was a real disappointment in almost every way. I learned almost nothing useful and found many of the "modernist" recipes to be inferior variations of traditional techniques. As stated upthread, I read the books from cover to cover and tried most of the recipes.

I'm waiting for my copy of Modernist Pizza (not sure why the shipment is stuck in USPS) and intend to give it a fair shake and see what new things the authors may have uncovered. Amazon gives me until the end of January to return it, so this was pretty much a no-brainer. 

Offline wb54885

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Re: You're all kidding yourselves...
« Reply #59 on: October 20, 2021, 10:37:19 AM »
Amazon gives me until the end of January to return it, so this was pretty much a no-brainer.

Hadnít even considered this. I was going to wait until a library near me carried it to take a look, but thatís a clever workaround.

Iíll be most curious to see what they can come up with to say about ovens and heat transfer in the baking process. Thatíd be interesting to see through their lense.

They came to a pizzeria in Seattle where I was working to research the book. I declined to be present for the meeting. I was told Myrhvold ate a whole 18Ē pie and more by himself and didnít ask a lot of questions, which is why Iím inclined to believe this was an eating tour for him personally with a picture book to show for it. But I canít wait to hear more reviews from members here and to get my hands on it as well. Even a pig can sometimes show you where to find a truffle.
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