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Offline jsaras

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Re: Post a Pic of Your Pie - Daily Update
« Reply #19220 on: October 10, 2021, 09:42:48 AM »
Jonas,

Not to take away from the very talented members of this forum, including you for sure, but Hans is like the Michael Jordan of pizza. The man knows what he is doing, and also why. We can all learn from him.

Peter
Iím firmly in the Charles Barkley category
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Offline Gianni5

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Re: Post a Pic of Your Pie - Daily Update
« Reply #19221 on: October 11, 2021, 04:35:16 PM »
Some Detroitís. Happy with the results but the bottoms stuck a little in my Lloydís pans for the first time. Not sure why.

Offline Papa T

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Re: Post a Pic of Your Pie - Daily Update
« Reply #19222 on: October 11, 2021, 10:50:02 PM »
The best round pizza Iíve ever made. Sourdough. Perhaps the best tasting one Iíve eaten from anywhere, and Iíve had a few from all over during my decades of existence.

Itís 15 inches of sourdough pizza and delivers a mouth flavor bomb. Iíve been to NYC many times, but have never had Di Faraís, though Iíve seen many pictures of it. This one seems to be ďDi Fara-esqĒ in appearance, but I donít know about the taste or texture since Iíve never had it.

After 40+ years since my last sourdough bake, I decided to make a new starter the first week of September, mainly to see how it works out for pizza, but to also make breads. The breads have been a big hit with friends. This pie is the first Iíve made using sourdough, and it wonít be the last.

I wanted to make a 14 inch pizza, so calculated for a 328 gram dough ball with a .075 TF. Yes, thin, and definitely not an American style pizza. Since my stone is 16x14 inches, I was going to use my 16 inch screen to start it off on the stone, then slide it off the screen after the pie had a bit of structure. That takes about 2 minutes. The Lloyd screen makes it easy to ďshake and breakĒ the pie free of the screen, then slide onto the stone.

Of course, since I was using the screen to handle the precision needed to put a 14 inch pizza on a 14 inch stone, I knew I was going to see how far I could stretch this, and it ended up at 15 inches for the 328 gram ball. That lands the TF just above .065. Yes, it was mighty thin, scary thin for me.

Iím sure that it could have been stretched to the full 16 inches by more experienced pizzaioli, of which Iím not. I was amazed that I could get it this far without tearing. The gluten structure was definitely working overtime to keep this one together. Once the dough sets enough to slide off the screen directly to the stone, a little hang off the stone edge doesnít seem to affect the bake much. This is how I normally bake 16 inch pies on a 14 inch stone.

The dough handled very well. As you can see in the photo of the unbaked pie, it was extremely thin near the center, especially in the 10 to 11 oíclock area, and the ďwindow paneĒ showing the screen underneath is obvious. The dough held up under fire during the entire process. One day, after a few hundred more pies, Iíll figure out how to keep the center from getting too thin. Everything in its due time and place.

The flavor that sourdough brings to the dough party is simply in a league of its own. Iíll list the dough recipe below. No magic, itís the straightforward basic Lehmann dough recipe at 58% hydration, with two modifications since Iím dealing with sourdough.

First, my sourdough culture is 100% hydration. Equal parts flour and water by weight. My starter always brings equal amounts of extra water and flour to the party, so that has to be factored in. In this recipe, I dropped the hydration to 54%, since the sourdough starter at 20% was going to be bringing about 4% hydration along with it. This gave the dough a 58% effective hydration.

Second, I increased the salt from the 1.75% standard in the Lehmann recipe, to 2%, since the starter has no salt, just flour and water. I wanted to ensure that the dough was not under salted. It not a critical thing at this level, but Iíd rather have a bit too much salt than not enough. I preheated my oven, with the stone on the bottom rack for one hour before the bake. The max my oven will do is 525F, and when I checked the stone with the IR thermometer at bake time, it was sitting at 525.

As most of us that have baked pizzas long enough come to realize, less is more when it comes to topping the skins. I made the sauce using simple ingredients and cooked it a bit, mostly to bloom the dry ingredients. No serious or long term simmering or boiling was done. Just a low simmer for about 15 minutes to let it all get happy then off the burner to cool.

After I made the skin, I gave it a light brushing with refined olive oil, then a few grinds of black pepper. The cheese is about 4 ounces of shaved LMPS mozzarella off the block, about 2 ounces of whole milk fresh mozzarella torn from the ball, and about an ounce of fresh grated Pecorino Romano cheese sprinkled about.

The sauce was dolloped on instead of spread around, as Iíve found that I like the taste better from a heterogenous topped pizza more than its topping being homogenous. A little bit of something different on each bite keeps the pie interesting. Itís all about the ratios experienced on each bite. When the sauce and cheese are evenly spread across the pie, each bite is basically the same, and can become monotonous. Not so when topped as shown here.

Since this was my first ever sourdough pizza, I kept is simple. Sourdough, sauce, and cheese. After tasting it, it seems that it would almost be a crime to add anything else to this. It was so good. Iím sure that I will add a topping or two on future bakes, but they too will be minimal and heterogenous in application. Keeping the toppings in balance to each other, while letting them all do their own thing on each random bite, seems to work out best for the overall eating experience.

An oven set in mid-600F range like Di Fara uses may offer a faster bake, but Iím not sure that itís a better bake. Especially after seeing some of the burned pizza photos uploaded by their customers to Yelp and Trip Advisor. At very high oven temps, 30 seconds too long can take a pizza from done to oops.

I put this pizza in the oven at 525F, shook the pie off the screen around 2 minutes in, turned it 180 at 5 minutes in, and pulled it at 8.5 minutes. The pie was fully baked around the 6.5 minute mark, and could have been pulled then for a less brown and crisp crust. I pulled this one at 8.5 minutes because it looked as I wanted. It could have likely gone close to 10 minutes for those that the like darker crusts.

On my own scale, since I have nothing to compare this one to other than my own past bakes, Iím giving it a 9.1. There is room for improvement, but if I could hit this mark every time I made a round pie, I could die happy.


For a 328 gram sourdough ball, TF .075 for a 14 inch pizza:
Flour, KAAP, 182 grams. Feel free to sub your fav flour.
Water, 98 grams at 85F
Salt, sugar, oil, 4 grams each
Sourdough starter at 100% hydration, 36 grams
I stretched mine to 15 inches, so it worked out to about a .065 TF

Lehmann recipe with IDY for 328 gram dough ball:
Flour 200 grams, 100%
Water, 116 grams, 58%
Salt, 3.5 grams, 1.75%
Sugar, Oil, 4 grams, 2%
IDY, 0.75 gram, 0.375%

I used King Arthur all purpose flour as itís a strong AP flour, and I didnít think that I needed to have a higher protein/gluten content at this lower hydration level. It seemed to work out well. The 36 grams of sourdough starter brings 18 grams each of flour and water to the party, effectively making the flour 200 grams, and water 116 grams, or 58% hydration.

The standard Lehmann recipe calls for 0.375% IDY. Since this is sourdough, it brings its own yeast and microbes, so no commercial yeast of any kind is used. Itís all mother nature. If IDY had been used, it would have been about ľ teaspoon or 0.75 grams for this batch. But, since itís sourdough, itís hard to be exact and know how much yeast and microbes are coming to the party. However, I figure that the 36 grams of sourdough starter brought in the equivalent of 1/16 to 1/8 teaspoon of IDY.

I mixed the dough in a stand mixer, adding the water first, then the sourdough starter to throughly stir in by hand, then the flour and dry ingredients. All was mixed for two minutes at low speed to loosely incorporate. Then the bowl covered to sit for 10 minutes to let the flour hydrate a bit.

After that, I continued mixing on a medium speed, drizzling in the oil at the start. The dough looked good around six minutes, so I stopped mixing and balled it. A lightly oiled bowl with cover was used, and left to sit at RT for 8 hours. This is sourdough, not commercial yeast, so it takes longer to get happy.

After the RT time, into the fridge for 16 hours, then out to the counter for 3 hours to warm up before making the skin and topping. This dough could have easily sat in the fridge for 3 more days and not over proofed. If I had left it on the counter from the start, it would have been ready to bake with additional 3-4 hours of RT time. It just depends on what youíre looking for as to which way to go.

What ever pizza I make next will also be sourdough, whether round, square, or rectangular. Stay tuned.

For those wondering, I ate every square inch of this pizza.
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Online Pizza_Not_War

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Re: Post a Pic of Your Pie - Daily Update
« Reply #19223 on: October 11, 2021, 11:40:21 PM »
KABF, olive oil and garlic, Muenster, Zoe's Spanish Chorizo and Blue cheese after bake. Sourdough fermented.

Offline RHawthorne

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Re: Post a Pic of Your Pie - Daily Update
« Reply #19224 on: October 12, 2021, 11:04:34 AM »
The best round pizza Iíve ever made. Sourdough. Perhaps the best tasting one Iíve eaten from anywhere, and Iíve had a few from all over during my decades of existence.

Itís 15 inches of sourdough pizza and delivers a mouth flavor bomb. Iíve been to NYC many times, but have never had Di Faraís, though Iíve seen many pictures of it. This one seems to be ďDi Fara-esqĒ in appearance, but I donít know about the taste or texture since Iíve never had it.

After 40+ years since my last sourdough bake, I decided to make a new starter the first week of September, mainly to see how it works out for pizza, but to also make breads. The breads have been a big hit with friends. This pie is the first Iíve made using sourdough, and it wonít be the last.

I wanted to make a 14 inch pizza, so calculated for a 328 gram dough ball with a .075 TF. Yes, thin, and definitely not an American style pizza. Since my stone is 16x14 inches, I was going to use my 16 inch screen to start it off on the stone, then slide it off the screen after the pie had a bit of structure. That takes about 2 minutes. The Lloyd screen makes it easy to ďshake and breakĒ the pie free of the screen, then slide onto the stone.

Of course, since I was using the screen to handle the precision needed to put a 14 inch pizza on a 14 inch stone, I knew I was going to see how far I could stretch this, and it ended up at 15 inches for the 328 gram ball. That lands the TF just above .065. Yes, it was mighty thin, scary thin for me.

Iím sure that it could have been stretched to the full 16 inches by more experienced pizzaioli, of which Iím not. I was amazed that I could get it this far without tearing. The gluten structure was definitely working overtime to keep this one together. Once the dough sets enough to slide off the screen directly to the stone, a little hang off the stone edge doesnít seem to affect the bake much. This is how I normally bake 16 inch pies on a 14 inch stone.

The dough handled very well. As you can see in the photo of the unbaked pie, it was extremely thin near the center, especially in the 10 to 11 oíclock area, and the ďwindow paneĒ showing the screen underneath is obvious. The dough held up under fire during the entire process. One day, after a few hundred more pies, Iíll figure out how to keep the center from getting too thin. Everything in its due time and place.

The flavor that sourdough brings to the dough party is simply in a league of its own. Iíll list the dough recipe below. No magic, itís the straightforward basic Lehmann dough recipe at 58% hydration, with two modifications since Iím dealing with sourdough.

First, my sourdough culture is 100% hydration. Equal parts flour and water by weight. My starter always brings equal amounts of extra water and flour to the party, so that has to be factored in. In this recipe, I dropped the hydration to 54%, since the sourdough starter at 20% was going to be bringing about 4% hydration along with it. This gave the dough a 58% effective hydration.

Second, I increased the salt from the 1.75% standard in the Lehmann recipe, to 2%, since the starter has no salt, just flour and water. I wanted to ensure that the dough was not under salted. It not a critical thing at this level, but Iíd rather have a bit too much salt than not enough. I preheated my oven, with the stone on the bottom rack for one hour before the bake. The max my oven will do is 525F, and when I checked the stone with the IR thermometer at bake time, it was sitting at 525.

As most of us that have baked pizzas long enough come to realize, less is more when it comes to topping the skins. I made the sauce using simple ingredients and cooked it a bit, mostly to bloom the dry ingredients. No serious or long term simmering or boiling was done. Just a low simmer for about 15 minutes to let it all get happy then off the burner to cool.

After I made the skin, I gave it a light brushing with refined olive oil, then a few grinds of black pepper. The cheese is about 4 ounces of shaved LMPS mozzarella off the block, about 2 ounces of whole milk fresh mozzarella torn from the ball, and about an ounce of fresh grated Pecorino Romano cheese sprinkled about.

The sauce was dolloped on instead of spread around, as Iíve found that I like the taste better from a heterogenous topped pizza more than its topping being homogenous. A little bit of something different on each bite keeps the pie interesting. Itís all about the ratios experienced on each bite. When the sauce and cheese are evenly spread across the pie, each bite is basically the same, and can become monotonous. Not so when topped as shown here.

Since this was my first ever sourdough pizza, I kept is simple. Sourdough, sauce, and cheese. After tasting it, it seems that it would almost be a crime to add anything else to this. It was so good. Iím sure that I will add a topping or two on future bakes, but they too will be minimal and heterogenous in application. Keeping the toppings in balance to each other, while letting them all do their own thing on each random bite, seems to work out best for the overall eating experience.

An oven set in mid-600F range like Di Fara uses may offer a faster bake, but Iím not sure that itís a better bake. Especially after seeing some of the burned pizza photos uploaded by their customers to Yelp and Trip Advisor. At very high oven temps, 30 seconds too long can take a pizza from done to oops.

I put this pizza in the oven at 525F, shook the pie off the screen around 2 minutes in, turned it 180 at 5 minutes in, and pulled it at 8.5 minutes. The pie was fully baked around the 6.5 minute mark, and could have been pulled then for a less brown and crisp crust. I pulled this one at 8.5 minutes because it looked as I wanted. It could have likely gone close to 10 minutes for those that the like darker crusts.

On my own scale, since I have nothing to compare this one to other than my own past bakes, Iím giving it a 9.1. There is room for improvement, but if I could hit this mark every time I made a round pie, I could die happy.


For a 328 gram sourdough ball, TF .075 for a 14 inch pizza:
Flour, KAAP, 182 grams. Feel free to sub your fav flour.
Water, 98 grams at 85F
Salt, sugar, oil, 4 grams each
Sourdough starter at 100% hydration, 36 grams
I stretched mine to 15 inches, so it worked out to about a .065 TF

Lehmann recipe with IDY for 328 gram dough ball:
Flour 200 grams, 100%
Water, 116 grams, 58%
Salt, 3.5 grams, 1.75%
Sugar, Oil, 4 grams, 2%
IDY, 0.75 gram, 0.375%

I used King Arthur all purpose flour as itís a strong AP flour, and I didnít think that I needed to have a higher protein/gluten content at this lower hydration level. It seemed to work out well. The 36 grams of sourdough starter brings 18 grams each of flour and water to the party, effectively making the flour 200 grams, and water 116 grams, or 58% hydration.

The standard Lehmann recipe calls for 0.375% IDY. Since this is sourdough, it brings its own yeast and microbes, so no commercial yeast of any kind is used. Itís all mother nature. If IDY had been used, it would have been about ľ teaspoon or 0.75 grams for this batch. But, since itís sourdough, itís hard to be exact and know how much yeast and microbes are coming to the party. However, I figure that the 36 grams of sourdough starter brought in the equivalent of 1/16 to 1/8 teaspoon of IDY.

I mixed the dough in a stand mixer, adding the water first, then the sourdough starter to throughly stir in by hand, then the flour and dry ingredients. All was mixed for two minutes at low speed to loosely incorporate. Then the bowl covered to sit for 10 minutes to let the flour hydrate a bit.

After that, I continued mixing on a medium speed, drizzling in the oil at the start. The dough looked good around six minutes, so I stopped mixing and balled it. A lightly oiled bowl with cover was used, and left to sit at RT for 8 hours. This is sourdough, not commercial yeast, so it takes longer to get happy.

After the RT time, into the fridge for 16 hours, then out to the counter for 3 hours to warm up before making the skin and topping. This dough could have easily sat in the fridge for 3 more days and not over proofed. If I had left it on the counter from the start, it would have been ready to bake with additional 3-4 hours of RT time. It just depends on what youíre looking for as to which way to go.

What ever pizza I make next will also be sourdough, whether round, square, or rectangular. Stay tuned.

For those wondering, I ate every square inch of this pizza.
Looks outstanding. My first thought was that it actually reminded me a little of a Grimaldi's pie, but without the coal char. And the recipe you used looks quite a bit like the one I saw posted for their dough here recently.  I've been giving a lot of thought lately myself to trying sourdough again, but what always holds me back is that just about every sourdough pizza I ever see pictures or videos of looks way thicker than I like to make. This makes me think I should probably give it a try.
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Post a Pic of Your Pie - Daily Update
« Reply #19225 on: October 12, 2021, 01:09:17 PM »
The best round pizza Iíve ever made. Sourdough. Perhaps the best tasting one Iíve eaten from anywhere, and Iíve had a few from all over during my decades of existence.
Tim,

Congratulations on another successful outcome.

I read your post with great interest because many years ago, in 2005, I experimented with using natural preferments (sourdough) with Tom Lehmann's NY style recipe. At the time, I was a relative novice, and especially so with sourdough, but I wanted to learn more about how sourdough could be used in pizza making. As it turned out, the pizzas tasted great and exceeded my expectations. If you (or others) are interested, you can read and see the pizzas I made and the methods I used and the many lessons I learned in the following posts, in the order in which I made the pizzas:

Reply 151 at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,576.msg11774.html#msg11774

Reply 161 at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,576.msg12367.html#msg12367

Reply 165 at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,576.msg12644.html#msg12644

Reply 175 at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,576.msg12748.html#msg12748

With respect to the thickness factor you used, one of our members at the time, Evelyne Slomon, gave me some information relating to NY style pizzas from which I was able to calculate thickness factors. The TFs may not have been precise but still in the ballpark. I discussed this matter in Reply 7 at:

https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=7342.msg63410;topicseen#msg63410

As you can see, your latest pizza fell into the thickness factor range that I calculated.

As an interesting side note, in the four Lehmann-based posts I cited above I often used the terms "retarded" and "retardation" for fermented doughs. Along the way, a member suggested that I stop using those terms. Even though such terms were commonly used in the trade, I did stop, and never used the terms again.

Peter






Offline Gluten4punishment

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Re: Post a Pic of Your Pie - Daily Update
« Reply #19226 on: October 13, 2021, 10:31:48 AM »
Thai chicken and Margherita

Offline DaveG_NJ

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Re: Post a Pic of Your Pie - Daily Update
« Reply #19227 on: October 14, 2021, 04:35:08 PM »
Had a pizza party with the family on Sunday and had my hands full helping the grandkids make pies and then cook them. Didn't have a chance to take any pictures, but the next day, I had one dough ball left over and it was at least a 96hr dough at that point, so I wanted to use it up and made a Prosciutto and Veggie white pie. I thought the dough held up remarkably well given how long it had been in the fridge. It was a pretty basic direct ferment, 65% hydration dough with no fat.


Offline nickyr

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Re: Post a Pic of Your Pie - Daily Update
« Reply #19228 on: October 15, 2021, 10:26:49 PM »
Some Detroitís. Happy with the results but the bottoms stuck a little in my Lloydís pans for the first time. Not sure why.
Thatís a lot of ricotta! Looks great!

Offline RHawthorne

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Re: Post a Pic of Your Pie - Daily Update
« Reply #19229 on: October 16, 2021, 12:39:37 PM »
Thatís a lot of ricotta! Looks great!
I thought it was buratta.
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Offline vincentoc13

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Re: Post a Pic of Your Pie - Daily Update
« Reply #19230 on: October 16, 2021, 10:08:11 PM »
Been using my baking steel for all my pies for a few months, but decided to dust off the Koda 16.  Sure glad I did, this Pepperoni and Calabrese Salami pie came out excellent!!

Offline domba

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Re: Post a Pic of Your Pie - Daily Update
« Reply #19231 on: October 17, 2021, 08:53:04 AM »
This one is made of dough that I forget about Ö  fermentation in total was over 115h CF and 10h RT, and I was about to trow it away, and then I realize it doesnít smell bed , so, I made pie Ö



And tried sweet pizza for 1st time Ö mmmm

Offline RHawthorne

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Re: Post a Pic of Your Pie - Daily Update
« Reply #19232 on: October 17, 2021, 02:24:21 PM »
Today's bake session, with a few firsts going on. My first time using the Grande avorio fresh mozzarella loaf and parmesan, first time using dough made with the Gold Medal "00" Neapolitan flour I bought last week, first time using Delallo pepperoni stick cut by hand, and first time using pork tenderloin for my homemade sausage. All of these things were highly satisfying. As the pictures show, I didn't have to use much of the avorio mozz and parmesan at all for a good coverage, and the flavor was great. I was concerned that pork tenderloin wasn't fatty enough to work well for pizza sausage, and I did have a little trouble getting all of it through the grinder, but it turned out excellent. Tomatoes were the Sclafanis I found two weekends ago, and I'm highly satisfied with that as well. Pizzas were baked in the Ooni with anthracite at a starting temp of around 750 degrees or so; good and roaring hot.
The first pizza was topped with just pepperoni, and the second with sausage with Delallo pepper drops. Both came out very nicely, and I'm really satisfied with the Grande cheese. My first test batch of dough with the GM "00" came out pretty well, but I think I'll increase the hydration rate next time around from 60% to somewhere between 62% and 64%, as it was just a bit too elastic for my liking and I definitely felt that it could handle more water and probably a little oil in the mix. All in all, probably my most satisfying pizza day with the Ooni oven to date, and I'm hugely thankful to Paul the Grande rep for generously giving me those cheese samples to try.
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Offline hbrochs

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Re: Post a Pic of Your Pie - Daily Update
« Reply #19233 on: October 17, 2021, 03:21:47 PM »
Shiitake pesto and pepperoni
« Last Edit: October 17, 2021, 03:58:37 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline gdepozsgay

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Re: Post a Pic of Your Pie - Daily Update
« Reply #19234 on: October 17, 2021, 06:57:28 PM »
Two pies for 2 nite. One pepperoni, mushroom and black olives: the other, mushroom, red and green peppers, red onions and black olives. Done on the Blackstone.
George

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Offline gloopdegurp

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Re: Post a Pic of Your Pie - Daily Update
« Reply #19235 on: October 17, 2021, 09:53:12 PM »
I did these two pizzas without my makeshift "dome" in the oven. It was nice to have more room again, though  the bakes took longer and had less top color on the rim.

The jalapeŮo and onion was started on a pan and finished on my tiles while the pepperoni was launched onto the tiles for the whole bake. Still need a lot of practice launching from the peel.

Ron

Offline vincentoc13

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Re: Post a Pic of Your Pie - Daily Update
« Reply #19236 on: October 17, 2021, 10:02:23 PM »
Baked on steel at 490 for 8 min.  I just can't get enough of these Margheritas!!

Offline billyjoeusc

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Re: Post a Pic of Your Pie - Daily Update
« Reply #19237 on: October 18, 2021, 09:33:35 PM »
Here is my first mixed dough. 75% KABF. 25% KA Whole Wheat flour. 68%hydration. Straight dough 6 hour bulk ferment and 24 hours in the fridge. Iím vegan so this one has my scratch made vegan mozzarella. It bubbles and has a bit of stretch and is so much better than anything you get in a store. Added some sweet earth vegan deli pepperoni also. The crust is really good. Good flavor, nice chew and crisp crunch. I think it turned out pretty dang good!
« Last Edit: October 19, 2021, 01:11:20 PM by Pete-zza »

Offline NepaBill

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Re: Post a Pic of Your Pie - Daily Update
« Reply #19238 on: October 19, 2021, 12:44:28 PM »
This weekend's experiment..  I was trying a dough recipe that involved using a biga..  The final dough hydration was 66%..  I made a fresh basil/mozz (left), a NYC style (middle), and for lack of a better name on the (right) a "Swirl top"... "Jersey Shore"...  "Grotto'esque"..  LOL..  The pizza on the right which is my favorite style has a sweeter sauce and Land O'lakes mild cheddar..

Offline Peter B

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Re: Post a Pic of Your Pie - Daily Update
« Reply #19239 on: October 19, 2021, 01:15:52 PM »
Iím vegan so this one has my scratch made vegan mozzarella.

I would love to hear more about this.
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He said "change only comes from within".  :-/

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