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Author Topic: Matt's NY Pizza, by HammettJr  (Read 95617 times)

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Offline hammettjr

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Re: Matt's NY Pizza, by HammettJr
« Reply #1780 on: April 29, 2021, 09:21:00 PM »
I'm honored! Great looking pie, glad all my posts have helped  :chef:

Matt

Offline hammettjr

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Re: Matt's NY Pizza, by HammettJr
« Reply #1781 on: May 27, 2021, 03:18:22 PM »
Question for anyone - would it matter if I bake on a stone that is a bit angled in the oven rather than level? My concern is whether the sauce/cheese will slide during the bake.

I spent a good hour and a half looking at ovens, testing to see if an 18" stone would fit by using a pizza box. Finally found what appears to be the one, but the rack leaves a few inches of space in the back of the oven, therefore the stone would have to go over the back of the rack, and there's a lip where the back bar of the rack is raised.

2 pics below with a closeup of the back bar and the pizza box sitting on top of it and therefore sloped down a bit. (I dont think you can see the slope in the pic, but you can get a sense of the height of the bar.)



« Last Edit: May 27, 2021, 03:20:21 PM by hammettjr »
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Offline parallei

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Re: Matt's NY Pizza, by HammettJr
« Reply #1782 on: May 27, 2021, 03:31:38 PM »

........... therefore the stone would have to go over the back of the rack, and there's a lip where the back bar of the rack is raised.


I think I remember folks here discussing using a steel bar across the front edge of the rack to address this issue. This may have been in conjunction with a pizza steel. The bar, or whatever, placed on the front edge of the rack would level the the steel up. Should work with a stone if the stone is thick enough. It will only be supported along the front and rear.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2021, 03:35:24 PM by parallei »

Offline jkb

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Re: Matt's NY Pizza, by HammettJr
« Reply #1783 on: May 27, 2021, 03:39:36 PM »
I would look for a flat replacement rack of the same width.
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Offline quietdesperation

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Re: Matt's NY Pizza, by HammettJr
« Reply #1784 on: May 27, 2021, 03:47:19 PM »
Hi Matt,

 I did this and it worked perfectly, found the tubing at home depot and they cut if for me:
https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=31267.msg311008#msg311008

"Sometimes the lips on the back of shelves can protrude considerably and rob you of precious plate depth.  If that happens, raise the plate above the lip with square steel tubing, like Mary Ann did with her plate here.

The fabricator you purchase your plate from should have tubing, or you can get tubing from Home Depot.  Square steel tubing will fit the bill, as will aluminum square tubing.  Just make sure the tubing is just large enough to get the plate above the lip, as too thick tubing will rob precious heat and add even more weight to the equation."

the lousy photo below makes it look like the steel isn't level but it is perfectly level.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2021, 03:57:38 PM by quietdesperation »
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Offline hammettjr

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Re: Matt's NY Pizza, by HammettJr
« Reply #1785 on: May 27, 2021, 04:30:36 PM »
Excellent, many thanks guys. Seems like I'll have options. I'm still not even sure if the mild slope will cause a real problem.

My preference is to get a flat rack, and I actually tried putting in racks from different ovens at the store to get a sense of how standard the sizing is. It'll need to fit well though given the weight of the stone.

But sounds like a simple trip to home depot for tubing if needed.

I dunno what a homebaked 18" pie will be like, but I'm excited to finally have the option. Will be a few months though. Meeting with my contractor tonight. Hopefully the new kitchen cabinets will be ordered next week.

Matt

Offline 02ebz06

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Re: Matt's NY Pizza, by HammettJr
« Reply #1786 on: May 27, 2021, 04:35:12 PM »
Since you are remodeling your kitchen, and if you are getting new countertops, you might be able to get the countertop people to route the back edge of the stone so it will slide over the back lip of the rack.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2021, 04:39:11 PM by 02ebz06 »
Bruce here... My cooking toys --> FGM 800-B Pizza Oven, Pellet Grill, Pellet Smoker, Propane Griddle, Propane Grill

Offline hammettjr

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Re: Matt's NY Pizza, by HammettJr
« Reply #1787 on: May 27, 2021, 04:45:39 PM »
Since you are remodeling your kitchen, and if you are getting new countertops, you might be able to get the countertop people to route the back edge of the stone so it will slide over the back lip of the rack.

Interesting idea! I met with a local fabricator today...he might do it.

Matt

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Matt's NY Pizza, by HammettJr
« Reply #1788 on: May 27, 2021, 04:49:07 PM »

Offline quietdesperation

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Re: Matt's NY Pizza, by HammettJr
« Reply #1789 on: May 27, 2021, 05:06:20 PM »
Matt,

Craig also used a support bar approach:

https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=39045.msg390558#msg390558

Peter

I've always loved craig's solution. we're selling our place in westchester and hoping the new place we find will have an oven which accommodates an 18 inch steel. Unfortunately, streeteasy/zillow doesn't have a way to filter by size of pizza steel :)
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Offline 02ebz06

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Re: Matt's NY Pizza, by HammettJr
« Reply #1790 on: May 27, 2021, 06:04:44 PM »
Unfortunately, streeteasy/zillow doesn't have a way to filter by size of pizza steel :)

Poorly written software.  :-D
« Last Edit: May 28, 2021, 02:30:50 PM by 02ebz06 »
Bruce here... My cooking toys --> FGM 800-B Pizza Oven, Pellet Grill, Pellet Smoker, Propane Griddle, Propane Grill

Offline nickyr

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Re: Matt's NY Pizza, by HammettJr
« Reply #1791 on: May 28, 2021, 01:37:17 PM »
As a renter, my apartments’ entire ranges have always been less level than that and it’s been fine for pizza. Pain on the stove, though.

Offline hammettjr

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Re: Matt's NY Pizza, by HammettJr
« Reply #1792 on: May 28, 2021, 07:26:48 PM »
As a renter, my apartments’ entire ranges have always been less level than that and it’s been fine for pizza. Pain on the stove, though.

Thanks! I'm sure my Blackstone isn't level and it rotates and it was always OK too.

Matt

Offline hammettjr

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Re: Matt's NY Pizza, by HammettJr
« Reply #1793 on: June 16, 2021, 01:51:42 PM »
Question - if I cook a sauce and the volume of it reduces by 40%, can I simply add water back to it to get to the original volume? I tried cooked sauce again this week and found the thickness hurt the melt/overall feel, and likely was too "robust" a flavor. While it seems totally logical to just add water back, it feels strange!

Background:

My current experimentation is based on my recent visit to Lucia (4th time total), which you can read about here:
https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=55305.msg673666#msg673666

My wife found "Il Villaggio" parm-reggiano at the grocery store (evidently at $20/pound!), so I gave that a shot along with some butter and fresh basil.

While I suspect that Lucia cooks their sauce, I'm not certain I need to for the parm/butter, but I wanted to try putting the basil leaves in for a cook, then removing them.

I tasted the sauce as I tinkered with it on the stove and it tasted amazing! What was extra and didnt make it onto the pie also tasted amazing a few hours later. But on the pie itself I found that 1) the parm was a bit lost 2) the basil was too strong 3) it was too thick for my melt 4) it may have just been too rich strong.

Next time I plan to leave out the basil just so I can test the parm/butter combo. I'll likely cook it and add water unless someone here compels me to do otherwise.

Regarding the basil amount, it was probably equivalent to 10 leaves in 1.25 cups tomato, which was too much, but I'm still surprised it came through the pizza flavor given I removed the leaves after 1 or 2 minutes only of cooking.


« Last Edit: June 16, 2021, 01:53:19 PM by hammettjr »
Matt

Offline jkb

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Re: Matt's NY Pizza, by HammettJr
« Reply #1794 on: June 16, 2021, 02:35:40 PM »
What about draining the tomatoes before cooking and adding the drained liquid back?
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Offline nickyr

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Re: Matt's NY Pizza, by HammettJr
« Reply #1795 on: June 16, 2021, 03:07:05 PM »
Is the only thing you want to accomplish by cooking getting some more basil flavor in? You could try not cooking and just letting the basil sit in the tomatoes for several hours or a day. It just takes longer to infuse without the heat.

Offline wb54885

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Re: Matt's NY Pizza, by HammettJr
« Reply #1796 on: June 16, 2021, 04:54:22 PM »
Try cooking in a pot with a lid on! It’ll capture steam and water will collect on the underside of the lid and you can drip the water back in when you take the lid off to check on it. I can end up with a wetter sauce than before cooking between the tomatoes breaking down and the water being retained.

I think a very slow warmup helps too. It used to take me an hour or more to bring a batch of sauce to just below a simmer, and at that point there would be a change in color and a pool of steaming water sitting on top of the sauce, which I would stir back in along with the captured water from the underside of the lid. It would be close to boiling hot, but it never reached a simmer or a roll on its way to that state.

It might be easier to “cook” a larger amount of sauce than a single serving, too. I would think at that small an amount, the tomatoes want to just boil away and thicken instead of sit around and break down for a while. Does that ring true at all?

Great looking slice there, no matter what! How was the melt affected?
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Offline hammettjr

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Re: Matt's NY Pizza, by HammettJr
« Reply #1797 on: June 16, 2021, 07:33:42 PM »
What about draining the tomatoes before cooking and adding the drained liquid back?

Ah, well my tomato is finely milled so its all liquid...but you got me thinking! Why not just add raw tomato instead of water?? I tried once the "cook half the tomato add the other half raw" technique, but here I could add as much raw as needed to get to the desired volume for the amount of herbs I used. (Meaning I'd have to add an amount more than half the original to account for the evaporation.) Very interesting, I want to try this.

Thanks JKB!
Matt

Offline hammettjr

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Re: Matt's NY Pizza, by HammettJr
« Reply #1798 on: June 16, 2021, 07:35:38 PM »
Is the only thing you want to accomplish by cooking getting some more basil flavor in? You could try not cooking and just letting the basil sit in the tomatoes for several hours or a day. It just takes longer to infuse without the heat.

Sort of, but I'm not really sure. I'm still curious about trying cooked sauces generally, what it does to the tomato, the other herbs/spices and if it impacts the hard cheese by melting it into the sauce.

My first thought was to just let basil sit in the raw sauce as you suggested, and I asked about it on the (less read) sauce board. I actually tried MAE in oil and tasted the oil. It was a little basily, but I dont think enough to work.

Matt

Offline hammettjr

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Re: Matt's NY Pizza, by HammettJr
« Reply #1799 on: June 16, 2021, 07:56:40 PM »
Try cooking in a pot with a lid on! It’ll capture steam and water will collect on the underside of the lid and you can drip the water back in when you take the lid off to check on it. I can end up with a wetter sauce than before cooking between the tomatoes breaking down and the water being retained.


I actually had remembered you mentioning that before. Isnt that the same as adding water? Or is somehow the collected steam different?

I'm using a small frying pan (my egg pan), which I dont think has a lid.


I think a very slow warmup helps too. It used to take me an hour or more to bring a batch of sauce to just below a simmer, and at that point there would be a change in color and a pool of steaming water sitting on top of the sauce, which I would stir back in along with the captured water from the underside of the lid. It would be close to boiling hot, but it never reached a simmer or a roll on its way to that state.

It might be easier to “cook” a larger amount of sauce than a single serving, too. I would think at that small an amount, the tomatoes want to just boil away and thicken instead of sit around and break down for a while. Does that ring true at all?



Wow, I certainly went super fast! Like warm in a minute...you're probably right, but I dont have enough experience with full pots of sauce to have seen the difference. Maybe I'll just be more careful about heating slower and trying to avoid overheating. But as I mentioned above in the response to JKB, if I have enough raw tomato on hand, I can add whatever I need back in to regain the volume/thinness.


Great looking slice there, no matter what! How was the melt affected?


Thanks! Perhaps I'm using the word "melt" too liberally. Maybe I mean more the mouthfeel. Having thin tomato is just different. (I remember you posted recently that you came around on this idea, not sure if you still feel the same.) As great as crushed tomatoes can be, and as great as the pizzas made with them can be, it's just different than when I use whole peeled. (And similar for a thickened/reduced sauce.) Not necessarily worse, just not what I'm currently after. It's too simple for me to say that the problem was the pie lacked wetness, but I'm not sure how else to describe it.

« Last Edit: June 16, 2021, 08:03:50 PM by hammettjr »
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