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Author Topic: Two more pies up for review. Made progress, and have more questions.  (Read 2910 times)

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Offline hammettjr

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Re: Two more pies up for review. Made progress, and have more questions.
« Reply #80 on: February 27, 2021, 07:31:05 PM »
It's not ideal. If you don't let it get so warm it'll let you stretch it. That way you have control over the size (and can avoid thin spots).

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Offline sal951

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Re: Two more pies up for review. Made progress, and have more questions.
« Reply #81 on: February 28, 2021, 10:20:23 PM »
When the dough sort of stretches itself out, is that a good sign or bad sign?

If you mean when it sort of widens more like a disc while still in your container, it's not something to worry about. I've found it does that far more on the higher hydration doughs I make (behaves more like a liquid the more liquid is incorporated - go figure). Usually when I take my dough out of its container and get it ready for stretching, it's essentially in a thick disc shape after a 4 or so day cold ferment and resting on the counter at room temp for maybe 2 hours. When I prep my dough to stretch, I rub a decent layer of flour on the work bench I use, and plop it down on top. I then sprinkle a dusting of flour on the top and rub it in a bit, since I find after having let it sit, there is a good amount of moisture still there. I don't drown it in flour while stretching, but just enough that it doesn't feel wet and sticky while I push down, flip, and shape/stretch.

If you mean stretching itself out, like very little effort is needed to get it to stretch (doing whatever technique) then no, it's not necessarily a bad thing as long as it's elastic and strong enough to not tear, and you work gently enough to avoid doing so. There are many techniques which people will use to stretch, one of the simpler ones is holding it up, and turning it like a steering wheel while gravity stretches it for you. If you're working with a dough of 60% hydration or more it should respond pretty well to such a stretch. Lower hydration doughs you might have to be a bit rougher with it to get it to comply. If it's stretching so quickly all on its own that it's breaking itself apart or getting wider than you wanted or thinner in sections then it might be a problem, but it's probably more-so temperature related.

Offline AtHomePizza

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Re: Two more pies up for review. Made progress, and have more questions.
« Reply #82 on: March 01, 2021, 04:39:24 AM »

If you mean stretching itself out, like very little effort is needed to get it to stretch (doing whatever technique) then no, it's not necessarily a bad thing as long as it's elastic and strong enough to not tear, and you work gently enough to avoid doing so. There are many techniques which people will use to stretch, one of the simpler ones is holding it up, and turning it like a steering wheel while gravity stretches it for you. If you're working with a dough of 60% hydration or more it should respond pretty well to such a stretch. Lower hydration doughs you might have to be a bit rougher with it to get it to comply. If it's stretching so quickly all on its own that it's breaking itself apart or getting wider than you wanted or thinner in sections then it might be a problem, but it's probably more-so temperature related.

Yes, its the 2nd part.
Even just removing it from the bowl and its like working with dough that is stretched to about 14 inches long, but it doesn't break.
It is great that it stretches so nicely but is a bit difficult trying to get a circle out of something so long.
Even if I try to get my entire hand under the dough in the bowl it still stretches itself out quickly.

I do plan on checking the temperature of the dough next time as I do have a food thermometer.
Instead of sitting out the 2-3 hours, maybe try 1 hour next time or even try it after taking it right out of the fridge to see how that works out.
Since my plan is to try with the same recipe but lower the grill temperature to get a more evenly cooked pie, it would be a good comparison.


Offline Fiorot

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Re: Two more pies up for review. Made progress, and have more questions.
« Reply #83 on: March 01, 2021, 03:11:16 PM »
Yes, its the 2nd part.
Even just removing it from the bowl and its like working with dough that is stretched to about 14 inches long, but it doesn't break.
It is great that it stretches so nicely but is a bit difficult trying to get a circle out of something so long.
Even if I try to get my entire hand under the dough in the bowl it still stretches itself out quickly.


Turn the bowl upside down on your bench and it will remain round

Offline sal951

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Re: Two more pies up for review. Made progress, and have more questions.
« Reply #84 on: March 01, 2021, 10:54:21 PM »
Yes, its the 2nd part.
Even just removing it from the bowl and its like working with dough that is stretched to about 14 inches long, but it doesn't break.
It is great that it stretches so nicely but is a bit difficult trying to get a circle out of something so long.
Even if I try to get my entire hand under the dough in the bowl it still stretches itself out quickly.

I do plan on checking the temperature of the dough next time as I do have a food thermometer.
Instead of sitting out the 2-3 hours, maybe try 1 hour next time or even try it after taking it right out of the fridge to see how that works out.
Since my plan is to try with the same recipe but lower the grill temperature to get a more evenly cooked pie, it would be a good comparison.

From the looks of it on your last recipe post, you're not using a crazy high hydration percentage. I'm not sure how it would essentially turn into a non-newtonian fluid just from room temperature and the ferment, so there's got to be something we're missing there. Try 1 hour after the fridge as you mentioned and if it isn't firmed up I'd be interested in how much oil you're adding to the container/ball when you set it in the fridge originally to ferment, as well as what your general technique is for pulling the dough ball out of the container.

In the meantime, as AtHomePizza suggested - maybe try just turning the dough straight out of the container onto your bench, getting some flour on it, and working it from there.

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Offline AtHomePizza

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Re: Two more pies up for review. Made progress, and have more questions.
« Reply #85 on: March 06, 2021, 11:32:58 AM »
Same recipe as last week. Change are to the process.
KA Bread Flour (12.7%) : 205g
00 Flour                          100g     <----Used left over 00 Flour to used it up.
Water             186g
Sugar                 6g
Yeast               .93g
Salt                    5g
Oil                      9g

Yeast was added @ 101 degrees for 7 minutes.

Dough
Mixed the dough at a slow rate. Added the oil around the 10 minute mark and mixed for 3 more minutes.
When finished, worked the dough with my hands another minute before placing in the bowl overnight.

5 Pictures uploaded
1 - The yeast after 7 minutes
2 - Dough at 10 minutes when oil added.
3 - Dough after working with hands 1 minute

Offline AtHomePizza

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Re: Two more pies up for review. Made progress, and have more questions.
« Reply #86 on: March 06, 2021, 11:48:26 AM »
Pizza making time.

Dough
Removed after 14 hours in the fridge.
Yeast appears to be more active than last week.

Stuck in a meat thermometer and waited until dough hit 54 degrees then started making the pie. It took about an hour to get to 54 degrees.
Once again, the dough stretched extremely easy.
It probably took less than 1 minute (probably even 30 seconds) to stretch it out to the size in the picture.

QUESTION :  Should I be concerned or even care or should I be happy that it takes less than a minute to get the dough into pie form?

Cooking
This week the pizza was cooked for 8 and 1/2 minutes @ 453.
The pizza cooked more evenly but the Cornicione still didn't brown as expected.

QUESTION :  Any recommends to get a bit more browning on the cornicione?

Cut/Taste
Nice crunch with the slicer.
To be honest, probably another 30 seconds on the stone would have been better.
Overall, the pie was excellent, but it had too much flour on the bottom. Usually flinging the dough back and forth to knock off excess flour but the dough was stretching too easily and couldn't really do it this time.
Although not brown, the cornicione had a nice flavor and texture.


5 Pictures uploaded
1 - Dough after 14 hours in the fridge.
2 - Yeast appears very active.
3 - Ready for the oven. Used just a tad less cheese this time.
4 - When first removed
5 - Crust
6 - Inside cornicione looks nice
7 - Overall fairly thin
8 - another crust image.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2021, 11:50:24 AM by AtHomePizza »

Offline hammettjr

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Re: Two more pies up for review. Made progress, and have more questions.
« Reply #87 on: March 06, 2021, 12:19:25 PM »
Pizzerias get their pies stretched super fast. The question is whether the dough is stretching on you, causing major inconsistency in thickness across the pie. If not, then why worry. (Your slice shot looks very even.)

I'm partial to lower temp bakes, but 450 is real low. I do pan bakes at 460, but for over 15 minutes and that's with an upper heating element. You can try a broiler for top heat and see if you like it.

I like your approach, your making good progress.

Matt

Offline piesofsatan

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Re: Two more pies up for review. Made progress, and have more questions.
« Reply #88 on: March 06, 2021, 12:36:50 PM »
Pizza making time.

Dough
Removed after 14 hours in the fridge.
Yeast appears to be more active than last week.

Stuck in a meat thermometer and waited until dough hit 54 degrees then started making the pie. It took about an hour to get to 54 degrees.
Once again, the dough stretched extremely easy.
It probably took less than 1 minute (probably even 30 seconds) to stretch it out to the size in the picture.

QUESTION :  Should I be concerned or even care or should I be happy that it takes less than a minute to get the dough into pie form?

Cooking
This week the pizza was cooked for 8 and 1/2 minutes @ 453.
The pizza cooked more evenly but the Cornicione still didn't brown as expected.

QUESTION :  Any recommends to get a bit more browning on the cornicione?

Cut/Taste
Nice crunch with the slicer.
To be honest, probably another 30 seconds on the stone would have been better.
Overall, the pie was excellent, but it had too much flour on the bottom. Usually flinging the dough back and forth to knock off excess flour but the dough was stretching too easily and couldn't really do it this time.
Although not brown, the cornicione had a nice flavor and texture.


5 Pictures uploaded
1 - Dough after 14 hours in the fridge.
2 - Yeast appears very active.
3 - Ready for the oven. Used just a tad less cheese this time.
4 - When first removed
5 - Crust
6 - Inside cornicione looks nice
7 - Overall fairly thin
8 - another crust image.

Are you forming your dough into a tight ball and closing the seam on the bottom before fermenting? The photo of your dough before ferment and after donít look properly balled, which could be why youíre finding your dough to stretch too quickly.

Offline AtHomePizza

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Re: Two more pies up for review. Made progress, and have more questions.
« Reply #89 on: March 06, 2021, 03:22:33 PM »
Are you forming your dough into a tight ball and closing the seam on the bottom before fermenting? The photo of your dough before ferment and after donít look properly balled, which could be why youíre finding your dough to stretch too quickly.

Just searched and found this :

Will add this step into the next test.

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Offline AtHomePizza

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Re: Two more pies up for review. Made progress, and have more questions.
« Reply #90 on: April 10, 2021, 03:12:43 PM »
Still been doing weekly pies but haven't posted much other that a few threads with general questions.

Today I have 2 similar yet different recipes mostly for testing and very interested to read feedback.

Similar recipe as previous weeks, but now 0 sugar and 2g of Malt.
KA Bread Flour (12.7%) : 205g
00 Flour                          100g     <----Still including 00 Flour as I am down to 1 bag left.
Water             186g
Sugar                 0g
Malt                 .2g
Active Dry Yeast  .8g
Salt                    5.6g
Oil                      9g

Malt & Yeast were added @ 100 degrees for 7 minutes.

QUESTION :  Check the images. How is the image showing the pockets of air after removing the dough from the frig. Just as expected? Too small? Not enough?

Mixing
 Currently using a shifter for the flour and pour it in 3 parts.

After Mixing
Fold the dough about a dozen times and place in the bowl covered with tin foil.
Previously I was storing it in an oiled bowl but lately have been placing it in the bowl only with light flour used and folding the dough.

Pizza making time.
Removed from frig about 15 hours later and about 30 minutes prior to making the pizza.
I can remove the dough from the bowl and make it into a pie within 30 seconds.

Comment :  Originally I was concerned about how soft the dough was and how easy it was to make into a pie.
Even watching the professionals at the pizza shop take 3-5 minutes to flatten the dough.
I have become grateful for how easily I can flatten out the dough.


Cooking
Stone temp at insertion : 574 degrees
Rotated the pie at 6 minutes
Added the screen under the pie at 9 minutes
Removed from oven at 11 minutes and 30 seconds
Stone temp at removal : 485 degrees.

Visual/Cut/Taste
One issue/concern has been the cornicione not getting brown, but the pies this weekend show improvements.
Cutting the pie and felt/heard a nice crunch not heard in previous pies.
Taste was very good.


Visual/Cut/Taste
1 - Dough from the frig
2 - Fermentation results.
3 - Getting ready for the oven/grill
4 - Fresh from the oven/grill
5 - cornicione
6 - crust
7 - bottom of crust

« Last Edit: April 10, 2021, 03:39:56 PM by AtHomePizza »

Offline AtHomePizza

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Re: Two more pies up for review. Made progress, and have more questions.
« Reply #91 on: April 10, 2021, 03:39:36 PM »

One of my concerns have been how thick the crust was and would like to get it a bit thinner.

There are a couple of minor changes on this 2nd pie and it turned out better than expected.

Similar recipe as above. Using 0 sugar and 2g of Malt but also other changes.

KA Bread Flour (12.7%) : 305g    <----Trying 100% of this flour instead of incorporating the 00 flour
00 Flour                          0g     
Water             186g
Malt                 .2g
Active Dry Yeast  1.2g          <----Slightly more than above
Salt                    5.6g
Oil                      .5 tsp   <----Slightly less than above. Sorry not in grams

Malt & Yeast were added @ 100 degrees for 7 minutes.

QUESTION :  Check the images. How is the image showing the pockets of air after removing the dough from the frig. Just as expected? Too small? Not enough?

Mixing 
After Mixing
Pizza making time.
All same as above
In an attempt to get thinner pizza and avoid having to do any additional recalculation, I simply cut off part of the dough and tossed it. 

Cooking
Stone temp at insertion : 560 degrees
Rotated the pie at 9 mins and added the screen under the pie at 9 minutes (forgot to rotate until this time)
Removed from oven at 11 minutes
Stone temp at removal : 509 degrees.

Visual/Cut/Taste
One issue/concern has been the cornicione not getting brown, but the pies this weekend show improvements.
Cutting the pie and felt/heard a nice crunch not heard in previous pies.


Taste was very good and even better than the first.
The crust was slightly thinner than the first as well as the cornicione was slightly thinner.
This is more in line with what I was trying to do.


QUESTION :  Does it make sense that removing some dough did help with the slightly thinner pizza?

QUESTION :  By using 100% of the KA Bread Flour and 0% of the 00 Flour, what did that contribute to this pie? 

Visual/Cut/Taste
1 - Fermentation results.
2 - Getting ready for the oven/grill
3 - Fresh from the oven/grill
4 - bottom of crust
5 - cornicione
6 - nice thin crust


Offline Peter B

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Re: Two more pies up for review. Made progress, and have more questions.
« Reply #92 on: April 10, 2021, 08:25:02 PM »
Is there any way that you can post your  bakerís percentages?
I said to my little one, "come here so I can change you".
He said "change only comes from within".  :-/

Offline AtHomePizza

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Re: Two more pies up for review. Made progress, and have more questions.
« Reply #93 on: April 11, 2021, 01:40:17 PM »
Is there any way that you can post your  bakerís percentages?

I did it for the recipe which turned out better.

KA Bread Flour (12.7%) : 305g   
Water                         186g
Malt                             .2g
Active Dry Yeast            1.2g         
Salt                                  5.6g
Oil                                    2.1g
               ============
                  Total      500.1 g
            
Flour       =   60.87%
Water   =    37.19%   
Malt       =   .03%
Yeast    =    .23%
Salt      =    1.11%
Oil      =    .42%

Offline HansB

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Re: Two more pies up for review. Made progress, and have more questions.
« Reply #94 on: April 11, 2021, 01:49:37 PM »
I did it for the recipe which turned out better.

KA Bread Flour (12.7%) : 305g   
Water                         186g
Malt                             .2g
Active Dry Yeast            1.2g         
Salt                                  5.6g
Oil                                    2.1g
               ============
                  Total      500.1 g
            
Flour       =   60.87%
Water   =    37.19%   
Malt       =   .03%
Yeast    =    .23%
Salt      =    1.11%
Oil      =    .42%

It's actually:

Flour    100%
Water    61%
Malt      .065%
Yeast     .4%
Salt       1.8%
Oil       .68%
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Offline AtHomePizza

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Re: Two more pies up for review. Made progress, and have more questions.
« Reply #95 on: April 11, 2021, 01:57:10 PM »
It's actually:

Flour    100%
Water    61%
Malt      .065%
Yeast     .4%
Salt       1.8%
Oil       .68%

Percentages are based on flour and not entire weight?

Offline sal951

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Re: Two more pies up for review. Made progress, and have more questions.
« Reply #96 on: April 11, 2021, 02:11:54 PM »
Percentages are based on flour and not entire weight?
Flour is always considered 100%, and everything else measured is in relation to its weight, i.e. if you had 1000g of flour and 600g of water your water weighs 60% of your flour weight, therefore is 60% hydration.

The idea is that you can scale your recipe very easily that way, since 37% of the total weight of ingredients requires more steps to figure out than 60% of the weight of the flour used.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2021, 02:17:08 PM by sal951 »

Offline HansB

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Re: Two more pies up for review. Made progress, and have more questions.
« Reply #97 on: April 11, 2021, 03:02:29 PM »
Percentages are based on flour and not entire weight?

Yes.
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