A D V E R T I S E M E N T


Author Topic: First time NY pizza fail -help me please. UPDATE : still need help.  (Read 9619 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Chronic mole

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 106
  • Location: 25.0443 N, 77.3504 W
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: First time NY pizza fail -help me please. UPDATE : still need help.
« Reply #120 on: September 04, 2021, 08:40:00 PM »
Latest effort. Pep and Sausage.

Offline Chronic mole

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 106
  • Location: 25.0443 N, 77.3504 W
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: First time NY pizza fail -help me please. UPDATE : still need help.
« Reply #121 on: November 01, 2021, 02:35:09 PM »
Chronic mole,

Can you tell us what type and brand of flour you used? And did you measure the finished dough temperature after mixing and did you measure the temperature of the dough after letting it warm up at room temperature after the three days of cold fermentation? I assume that your refrigerator temperature is normal.

Overall, it looks like you did a nice job making and managing the dough. And the recipe looks sound.

Peter

Peter,
I have now purchased a digital thermometer to monitor the temperature of the dough. Can you please let me know the following:

1. the ideal finished dough temperature after mixing,
2. the ideal temperature the dough should be at before I place a lid on it in the fridge, and
3. tThe ideal temperature I should let the dough warm to at RT before opening the dough.

Thank you.

Offline Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 31060
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: First time NY pizza fail -help me please. UPDATE : still need help.
« Reply #122 on: November 01, 2021, 06:15:42 PM »
Peter,
I have now purchased a digital thermometer to monitor the temperature of the dough. Can you please let me know the following:

1. the ideal finished dough temperature after mixing,
2. the ideal temperature the dough should be at before I place a lid on it in the fridge, and
3. tThe ideal temperature I should let the dough warm to at RT before opening the dough.

Thank you.

Chronic mole,

The word "ideal" can have different meanings depending on whether a dough is made in a commercial setting, where a commercial cooler is used, or in a typical home setting, ​where a standard type of home refrigerator is used.

Starting with the finished dough temperature, the late Tom Lehmann used to recommend a finished dough temperature of about 80-85F in a commercial setting and about 70-75F in a home setting. The difference is because a commercial cooler operates more efficiently than a typical home refrigerator.

As for when to replace the lid of a dough storage container (like a bowl with a lid) for a refrigerated dough, Tom used to recommend an internal dough temperature of around 50-55F. In my case, I typically used time rather than temperature and, in that case, I would place the lid on the bowl after about 2 hours. Tom often mentioned 2 hours also for a home setting. I believe the 50-55F range was for a commercial cooler.

With respect to the temper temperature, Tom often quoted 50-55F. That happens to be what Papa John's and other commercial pizza chains use. For a home setting, Tom sometimes mentioned two hours as a good time to use in a home setting. I used to use about two hours but I would watch the dough carefully during that time to be sure that it didn't overferment. But when I wanted to use temperature instead of time, I tended to prefer about 60-70F.

In any given setting, the numbers can vary depending on a lot of factors, including room temperature at the time the dough is made and also at the time that the dough ball is allowed to warm up before using to make a pizza, the water temperature used to make the dough, and the efficiency of the refrigerator or cooler. The type of dough being made can also have varying numbers. For example, I intentionally made doughs where the finished dough temperature was in the roughly mid-60sF range. FYI, the low temperatures in my case, along with some other measures I used, allowed me to cold ferment doughs for weeks, not just a few days.

Peter




Offline Chronic mole

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 106
  • Location: 25.0443 N, 77.3504 W
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: First time NY pizza fail -help me please. UPDATE : still need help.
« Reply #123 on: November 03, 2021, 03:43:40 PM »
Latest one! I think Im making progress!!

Offline Chronic mole

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 106
  • Location: 25.0443 N, 77.3504 W
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: First time NY pizza fail -help me please. UPDATE : still need help.
« Reply #124 on: November 03, 2021, 03:43:55 PM »
Thanks Peter !

A D V E R T I S E M E N T


Offline Chronic mole

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 106
  • Location: 25.0443 N, 77.3504 W
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: First time NY pizza fail -help me please. UPDATE : still need help.
« Reply #125 on: November 20, 2021, 04:15:12 PM »
I have an issue with edge stretching - when I open a skin and attempt to edge stretch the dough is too soft to do so... I put both hands on the dough and try to turn it clockwise and literally nothing happens ( the dough shifts a little bit. Can anyone help me figure out why I can't edge stretch my dough? I'm thinking I need to lower my hydration to 60%, instead of 65%?
« Last Edit: November 20, 2021, 04:19:22 PM by Chronic mole »

Offline 02ebz06

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 7686
  • Location: Rio Rancho, NM USA
Re: First time NY pizza fail -help me please. UPDATE : still need help.
« Reply #126 on: November 20, 2021, 05:12:48 PM »
I don't know if this is the issue, but do you have enough flour on the board/counter so it can slide easily?
I do 60% but still need a fair amount of flour on the board so you can slide it around.

Check how this guy does it and how he flours the dough.  --> 
« Last Edit: November 20, 2021, 05:19:25 PM by 02ebz06 »
Bruce here... My cooking toys --> FGM 800-B Pizza Oven, Pellet Grill, Pellet Smoker, Propane Griddle, Propane Grill

Offline Chronic mole

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 106
  • Location: 25.0443 N, 77.3504 W
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: First time NY pizza fail -help me please. UPDATE : still need help.
« Reply #127 on: December 13, 2021, 05:13:59 PM »
Thank you 02ebz06, I will try that.

Quick question - how much does a polish or biga improve your pizza? Im wondering if I should try to experiment with it at all.

Offline 02ebz06

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 7686
  • Location: Rio Rancho, NM USA
Re: First time NY pizza fail -help me please. UPDATE : still need help.
« Reply #128 on: December 13, 2021, 05:19:55 PM »
Thank you 02ebz06, I will try that.

Quick question - how much does a polish or biga improve your pizza? Im wondering if I should try to experiment with it at all.

Can't help you with that, I don't use either.
I should try it some day.
Bruce here... My cooking toys --> FGM 800-B Pizza Oven, Pellet Grill, Pellet Smoker, Propane Griddle, Propane Grill

Offline Chronic mole

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 106
  • Location: 25.0443 N, 77.3504 W
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: First time NY pizza fail -help me please. UPDATE : still need help.
« Reply #129 on: December 13, 2021, 06:42:00 PM »
Question is open to anyone RE: poolish and biga.

A D V E R T I S E M E N T


Offline RHawthorne

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1764
  • Location: SW MI
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: First time NY pizza fail -help me please. UPDATE : still need help.
« Reply #130 on: December 13, 2021, 10:57:12 PM »
Question is open to anyone RE: poolish and biga.
I did my first poolish last week. I did 25% poolish with Caputo Nuvola Super "0" flour, and the rest of the flour for the secondary dough was King Arthur bread flour. Total hydration was 65%, salt was 3%, yeast was 0.2%, no oil or sugar added. I fermented the poolish for about 22.5 hours at RT and then mixed it with the secondary dough and let that ferment for about 18.5 hours at RT and another 36 hours cold before use. The resulting dough was surprisingly tight and not nearly as extensible as I was expecting, even after sitting out at room temp for a good 2 hours.
 I'm on my second poolish experiment now. I reformulated my dough after assessing the results of the first batch. For this one, I went with a 50/50 blend of the same flours, in both the poolish and the secondary dough. This batch is at 68% hydration, 2.5% salt, 0.3% yeast, and 1% dry malt extract (non-diastatic). I only let the poolish ferment at RT for 6 hours this time, and then mixed in the rest of the dough and let that sit at RT for 12 hours overnight. I then placed the dough balls in the fridge. That was about 14 hours ago, and I plan on using one dough ball tomorrow at lunch time. We'll see how that goes.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2021, 10:59:17 PM by RHawthorne »
If we're not questioning the reason for our existence, then what the hell are we doing here?!

Offline Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 31060
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: First time NY pizza fail -help me please. UPDATE : still need help.
« Reply #131 on: December 14, 2021, 09:44:53 AM »
Randy,

Out of curiosity, can you tell us how you decided when to use the poolish?

Peter

Offline RHawthorne

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1764
  • Location: SW MI
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: First time NY pizza fail -help me please. UPDATE : still need help.
« Reply #132 on: December 14, 2021, 11:16:07 AM »
Randy,

Out of curiosity, can you tell us how you decided when to use the poolish?

Peter
Do you mean when I decided to use the poolish method, or when to integrate the poolish in with the rest of the dough? If you mean the latter, I just did a little sleuthing around the web, and there didn't seem to be much consensus on the proper amount of time, so the first time I did it, I went with a pretty extended fermentation time on the poolish, just to be diligent on my first attempt. After that attempt, it wasn't clear to me whether I really needed to give the poolish as much fermentation time as I did, so I decided to give it a shorter one the next time, especially since I was using a little malt extract the second time around, and I didn't use any added sugar on the first one. So far, I've noticed that the dough with poolish that had a shorter fermentation time hasn't risen as much, but that could be because the fermentation was divided more evenly into RT and cold temps, and because the overall fermentation time hasn't been as long. On the first one, I had to punch it down twice during the extended RT rise. With the second, I only had to punch it down once (with a shorter RT fermentation time) and it did rise pretty dramatically, but I haven't noticed any real rise since they (the separate dough balls; I always ball up immediately after kneading regardless of any other factor) went in the fridge yesterday morning. I'll be using one of the dough balls in about an hour, and I'll see what I get.
« Last Edit: December 14, 2021, 11:17:41 AM by RHawthorne »
If we're not questioning the reason for our existence, then what the hell are we doing here?!

Offline Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 31060
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: First time NY pizza fail -help me please. UPDATE : still need help.
« Reply #133 on: December 14, 2021, 11:42:40 AM »
Randy,

I meant the time when you used the poolish to make the final dough. My practice when using poolish and other preferments has been to generally follow the instructions that I found in these two articles by Didier Rosada:

https://web.archive.org/web/20040814193817/cafemeetingplace.com/archives/food3_apr2004.htm

https://web.archive.org/web/20050829015510/www.cafemeetingplace.com/archives/food4_dec2004.htm

Unfortunately, the photos do not appear in the articles. The original articles no longer exist (as best I can tell) but I found them at the Wayback Machine.

Peter

Offline RHawthorne

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1764
  • Location: SW MI
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: First time NY pizza fail -help me please. UPDATE : still need help.
« Reply #134 on: December 14, 2021, 01:00:00 PM »
Randy,

I meant the time when you used the poolish to make the final dough. My practice when using poolish and other preferments has been to generally follow the instructions that I found in these two articles by Didier Rosada:

https://web.archive.org/web/20040814193817/cafemeetingplace.com/archives/food3_apr2004.htm

https://web.archive.org/web/20050829015510/www.cafemeetingplace.com/archives/food4_dec2004.htm

Unfortunately, the photos do not appear in the articles. The original articles no longer exist (as best I can tell) but I found them at the Wayback Machine.

Peter
Great article. That's definitely a keeper. Looks like I used a bit too much yeast according to the timeline specified there. I'm currently eating the pizza I made with this batch of dough, and I'll be posting pics soon.
If we're not questioning the reason for our existence, then what the hell are we doing here?!

A D V E R T I S E M E N T


Offline Chronic mole

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 106
  • Location: 25.0443 N, 77.3504 W
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: First time NY pizza fail -help me please. UPDATE : still need help.
« Reply #135 on: January 13, 2022, 11:15:12 AM »
Ok so I made and used my first poolish. Im not sure whether it is just right or overfwtmented but I had it sitting at RT for 15 hours. Pictures below and fingers crossed.

Offline RHawthorne

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1764
  • Location: SW MI
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: First time NY pizza fail -help me please. UPDATE : still need help.
« Reply #136 on: January 13, 2022, 12:58:18 PM »
Ok so I made and used my first poolish. Im not sure whether it is just right or overfwtmented but I had it sitting at RT for 15 hours. Pictures below and fingers crossed.
That's exactly what mine always looks like and I've had good success so far.
If we're not questioning the reason for our existence, then what the hell are we doing here?!

Offline Chronic mole

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 106
  • Location: 25.0443 N, 77.3504 W
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: First time NY pizza fail -help me please. UPDATE : still need help.
« Reply #137 on: January 15, 2022, 06:14:15 AM »
Sooo I dont think I will be doin a poolish again. I did not taste that big of a difference but maybe my taste buds arent there yet to notice a discernible difference.

Also sacrificing crust coloration is a major downside for minimal flavor increase.

Offline RHawthorne

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1764
  • Location: SW MI
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: First time NY pizza fail -help me please. UPDATE : still need help.
« Reply #138 on: January 15, 2022, 10:22:20 AM »
Sooo I dont think I will be doin a poolish again. I did not taste that big of a difference but maybe my taste buds arent there yet to notice a discernible difference.

Also sacrificing crust coloration is a major downside for minimal flavor increase.
Did you change something else about your dough recipe, like did you take out some sugar? I can see no plausible reason why using a poolish should give you lighter crust color. As far as any change in flavor, I don't use one for that reason; I do it because it gives my dough greater strength. Any fermentation process with sufficient time involved should give a good flavor. I don't know what your goal was with the poolish, but I wouldn't write it off so quickly. It can definitely bring improvements; you just have to use it for the right reason.
If we're not questioning the reason for our existence, then what the hell are we doing here?!

Offline scott r

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5389
  • Age: 51
  • Location: Boston
  • I Love Pizzafreaks!
Re: First time NY pizza fail -help me please. UPDATE : still need help.
« Reply #139 on: January 15, 2022, 10:40:52 AM »
If your poolish is over fermented it will greatly reduce the coloration in your pizza regardless of how spot on the final fermentation of your dough is.

A D V E R T I S E M E N T


 

wordpress