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  • #101 by dmaclaren on 20 Jun 2019
  • The one posted is the 1.2% 85% hydration.

    The second one was 75% hydration and 2.05 (8g) brand new oipened yeast that was frozen but never opened in a vac 1lb container.  so no iussues with this yeasrt


    I did the almost double yeast to see how it would rise.  The double in 2.2 hours was great but getting it out of bowl and getting it into place de-gased it completely then it was , I would say, harder to get a rise compared to the 85% in that stage.  In the last rise in pan, it wasn't as high as the 1.2%.

    I would have expected more rise in the later rises after bulk in bowl.  I just don't understand why the rise was slower.  I didn't add any sugar though tot he 75%, could that  have caused rise issues?  I know yeast likes sugar but shouldn't need it. 


    The second one, without a pic was

    100 - Flour - 390
    71 - water - 277
    2.8 - salt - 10.92
    2 - yeast - 7.8
    4 - oil - 15.6
    75% hydration



    The 90% flacvor was nice, texture was very nice, I just want more workable dough.  Maybe I need to give up on that and try to just focus on results and maybe just do the bowl rise then once into the pan and done. 



    Oh, I did the 75% in the food processor because I do it with a Sicilian one that is outstanding so I though it would do well.    I will try 80% with food processor today and see.




  • #102 by dmaclaren on 20 Jun 2019
  • I am a little all over the place.  Also, I am  using my warming drawer on Proof mode so I am at 80 degrees, they talked about it being hot in there   Maybe too hot?


  • #103 by dmaclaren on 20 Jun 2019
  •  Okay I did
    Flour (100%): 350 g 
    Water (78%): 273 g
    IDY (4%): 14 g
    Salt (2%): 7 g
    Oil (2%): 7 g 
    Sugar (2%): 7 g 
    Total (188%):   658 g  1/4 baking sheet

    Everying but salt and oil in a FOOD PROCESSOR pulse until just combined, 10 min Autolyse
    add salt and oil, run for about 45 seconds (nice elastic), put in bowl and rest until doubled @80 about 1.75 hours ( this was like a web so much gasses due to high yeast)
    put onto counter, form  into ball like the vid on pulls with  high hydration 
    let rest 30 min, flip, degas, push into rectangle
    rest 20 min flip
    20 min rest and put in pan, rise 35 - 40 min (this did not rise as much hear as I wanted it too
    cook on grill about 550 - 600 for 14 minutes.

    Flipped up cover neat 12 min because didn't want over cooked top.  I like this processor work as I do it with another dough of 70% that I like a lot.

    I didn't get an over yeast yet a pleasant one and the mouth feel was outstanding.

    One of the best textures as close to SLAB so far.  The dough held more of the shape after the balling on the first flip.

    I will try two more, one back to 1.5% yeast and one at 5% but 80% hydration and same method as I like this the most.


     




  • #104 by dmaclaren on 23 Jun 2019
  • Another 80%  GO WITH 4% yeast.  THis is by far the closest dough to the videos that I have done to date.  I m going to bake this one.  What I have so far is

    Flour (100%): 350 g | 12.35 oz | 0.77 lbs
    Water (78%): 273 g | 9.63 oz | 0.6 lbs
    IDY (4%): 14 g | 0.49 oz | 0.03 lbs | 4.65 tsp | 1.55 tbsp
    Salt (2%): 7 g | 0.25 oz | 0.02 lbs | 2.06 tsp | 0.69 tbsp
    Oil (2%): 7 g | 0.25 oz | 0.02 lbs | 1.56 tsp | 0.52 tbsp
    Sugar (2%): 7 g | 0.25 oz | 0.02 lbs | 1.76 tsp | 0.59 tbsp
    Total (188%):   658 g | 23.21 oz | 1.45 lbs | TF = N/A 1:15 PM
    (80% = 78% water & 2% oil )

    Used Food processor.
    All but oil and salt, pulse just to incorporate
    rest 10 min
    add salt oil and turn on for 1 minute (nice and elastic)
    rise 1 hour @ 80 degree  little over double happened
    form to tension with the pull into you on counter like the vieo to tension skin, heavy flour(sifted on top), rest 30 min
    flip, press out gas, four sit 20 min
    Flip and pan rest 20 min.

    Bake on stone in grill  stone 550 - 575 13 minutes

    I will update later   

    THe pictures are of a double batch.  I did 2 separate as 2 don't work well in food processor.   Once this formula is right, which I think it is now, I will do a mixer and then hand to test out the results. 

  • #105 by dmaclaren on 23 Jun 2019
  • THis is a 1/2 sheet.

  • #106 by dmaclaren on 23 Jun 2019
  • Final.

    This is my closest and I believe almost spot on.

    Sauce, I did San Marzano cooked high heat 5 minutes with some sugar.  Cheese, 50/50 Imported provolone and low moisture whole milk, oregano, pink salt, olive oil. 

    Boom, I find this recipe complete.   Now to try some mixer and hand mixed versions.   I love this recipe.



  • #107 by DanAyo on 24 Jun 2019
  • Hey Don, Abe (TFL) asked me to take a look at your post. He is out of commission at this time (computer problems).

    You are one tenacious guy! I admire your persistence. After reading every single post on TFL and here, I have a suggestion that may help.

    First, are you sure they use KABF?

    If you want to increase the rise and strength of the dough try acorbic acid.  For a kilo of flour I use as much as 1000mg of vitamin C. Get a 1000mg pill and crush it into fine powder between to spoons. Optionally a mortar and pestle is best. Take a look at this post for more info. http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/56563/tip-could-your-bread-use-little-vitamin-c

    I am going to search for an image that shows a comparative test of ascorbic acid vs no ascorbic acid. If I can find it I’ll post it.

    The way they bounce the dough as they turn it over and also the resiliency of that dough when they top it screams ascorbic acid or so similar oxidizer...
  • #108 by dmaclaren on 24 Jun 2019
  • DanAyo, I had no idea about this.  THey mentioned in a post that they do use the KABF.  I will check out that link and I will try some ascorbic acid.  I will try this tomorrow, and report back.

    Hey Don, Abe (TFL) asked me to take a look at your post. He is out of commission at this time (computer problems).

    You are one tenacious guy! I admire your persistence. After reading every single post on TFL and here, I have a suggestion that may help.

    First, are you sure they use KABF?

    If you want to increase the rise and strength of the dough try acorbic acid.  For a kilo of flour I use as much as 1000mg of vitamin C. Get a 1000mg pill and crush it into fine powder between to spoons. Optionally a mortar and pestle is best. Take a look at this post for more info. http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/56563/tip-could-your-bread-use-little-vitamin-c

    I am going to search for an image that shows a comparative test of ascorbic acid vs no ascorbic acid. If I can find it I’ll post it.

    The way they bounce the dough as they turn it over and also the resiliency of that dough when they top it screams ascorbic acid or so similar oxidizer...
  • #109 by DanAyo on 24 Jun 2019
  • Don,
    Not sure if you are old enough to remember this, but ascorbic acid is like “Brylcreem – A Little Dab'll Do Ya“
    scroll to 0:28 to hear for yourself  :D

    For 350g flour, I’d use no more than 1/3 of a tablet (1000mg). You should definitely notice a difference in your dough. I am hoping it will give your dough the same bounce as in the video.

    Please be sure to let us know...
  • #110 by dmaclaren on 25 Jun 2019
  • So I called and faked an allergy to Ascorbic acid (vit C) and said I wanted to try the pizza and breads.   They said it's not in there but who knows. 

    I will try it, hope to maybe today and can't wait to see/feel/texture taste what diff happens.


  • #111 by DanAyo on 25 Jun 2019
  • Sorry Don. I can't seem to find the image that I wanted to show you. It compared dough with and without Ascorbic Acid (AA). It is quite impressive.

    Here is a shot of a dough using AA. It rose 1/3 more than normal. Keep in mind the dough underwent a very long warm ferment. Without AA the dough wouldn't overflow. The strength and resiliency of the dough is greatly increased. The dough pushed to top up. Like the SLAB video, this dough is bouncy...
  • #112 by dmaclaren on 25 Jun 2019
  • so I have one going and my last one, which I loved was 4% yeast, very high.  This time I did the 1/4 sheet of 350g flour and 3% yeast with the AA

    going now

    One bad thing is I used 1/2 a tablet, not thinking.  Thoughts on if this is bad on a 3 hr rise?  I crushed it and diluted it in the water.




  • #113 by DanAyo on 25 Jun 2019
  • I wouldn’t worry. I use it at 1% and am told that is way too high. Next time (if there is a next time) you may want to reduce the amount.

    I am excited to hear your thoughts on the affects of AA.
  • #114 by dmaclaren on 25 Jun 2019
  • I wouldn’t worry. I use it at 1% and am told that is way too high. Next time (if there is a next time) you may want to reduce the amount.

    I am excited to hear your thoughts on the affects of AA.
    so if my math is correct .5 grams (1/2 1000 mg tablet) of 350 flour is .00143 or 1430ppm   is that right?  that's a lot


    Okay, I can feel a fifference in this dough after the first 1.5 hours on it

    it is stronger and holds more gas and does force that de gas need and it's more bouncy and allows me to handle more.  I kept the 80% hydration and reduced yeast to 3% from 4%

  • #115 by DanAyo on 25 Jun 2019
  • Don, mwilson, aka Michael on TFL told me that 0.01% of the total flour weight is a typical dose for AA. I trust him. At this rate 1/3 (.35) of a gram would be right. To be honest I would break 1/3 of a 1000mg pill, crush that and mix it into my dough water to make sure it was dissolved.

    When it comes to parts per million, the idea bewilders me :o
  • #116 by dmaclaren on 25 Jun 2019
  • OMG, LIFE CHANGING!

    Okay, I didn't notice the difference until like 2 hours into it. 
    The end was that Jiggly well formed and holding and held the sauce very nice, and I added more than normal.
    I went from 4% - 3% and may go back to 2 but leaving for now as I have to test again tomorrow.

    Here is the un-cut finish, check out that edge, like 3.5" high and  I would love it if there was on on every pie, that piece was outstanding.

    The mouth feel and chew was 100% than the last and it was SPOT ON.  It made you want to eat more and more and non stop.  IT melted in your mouth as you chewed.  It was a complete different pizza.   The last one held the full rise, this one, like slab lost some in the slices just like the one in the hand posted above and it didn't cause it to get tough.

    Below are a couple pics.   I can't thank ABE for asking and for you to hit me with that knowledge of AA.  What a relief to finally have people that care in what they do to share.

  • #117 by DanAyo on 25 Jun 2019
  • Great Don, I am thrilled hear it worked for. Please continue to post your progress. I know you’ll be micro tweaking it some more. Once you have it where you want it, I am definitely going to give this monstrosity a try!

    I’ll email Abe and tell him about your success. He should be back online soon.
  • #118 by Pete-zza on 25 Jun 2019
  • Papa John's has been using ascorbic acid in its doughs for years, as can be seen toward the bottom of Reply 492 at:

    https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=6758.msg260041#msg260041

    I discussed my experience using ascorbic acid in the last paragraph of Reply 336 at:

    https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=6758.msg160800#msg160800

    I had been earlier told by a PJ R&D employee that PJ used ascorbic acid in lieu of bromates, as I so noted at Reply 135 at:

    https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=6758.msg81078;topicseen#msg81078

    Peter

  • #119 by dmaclaren on 25 Jun 2019
  • Papa John's has been using ascorbic acid in its doughs for years, as can be seen toward the bottom of Reply 492 at:

    https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=6758.msg260041#msg260041

    I discussed my experience using ascorbic acid in the last paragraph of Reply 336 at:

    https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=6758.msg160800#msg160800

    I had been earlier told by a PJ R&D employee that PJ used ascorbic acid in lieu of bromates, as I so noted at Reply 135 at:

    https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=6758.msg81078;topicseen#msg81078

    Peter

    (My usage was a lot more than your mention, I used 500mg per 350g of flour and did a 3 hour ferment.  I noticed a huge difference while reducing the already large amount of yeast to get something workable.  I went from 2% in 80% hydration down to 3% with ascorbic and I feel could go lower if needed but the workability of the dough and it held up was outstanding, better than 4Q% yeast and no ascorbic.  The oven spring was also very noticeable and the texture different than the 4% non ascorbic and it was perfect.
  • #120 by DreamingOfPizza on 29 Jun 2019
  • Congrats! Its looking better ans better every time. Do you have a final recipe or you still tweaking the aa/ yeast?
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