Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?

[dmaclaren]

yes, not hard bottom and oozy cheese.

The amount of yeast in this is a lot more than what I use for Neapolitan. For Neapolitan, I only use .2%. This was 2%. Since the dough rises at room temperature, I didn't want too much yeast.


I added 95 degree water to the flour and let it autolyse for about 20 minutes before adding in the salt, sugar, and yeast. I don't know how long I mixed it in the bucket before the initial rise, but it wasn't long. When I did the stretch-and-folds, I went around twice so I did 8 each time. The dough didn't seem to do much for the first couple of hours. 


I'm going to make another mini-slab today, and will watch the Slab and Micucci videos again before starting. I'll take more notice of how long it rises, etc. Last time I was just winging it, and could have pulled the dough out sooner, but we weren't ready to eat so I let it rise longer. I don't remember seeing the Slab or Micucci dough rise in the pan, but I do that when I make Sicilian so it seemed like a good idea. I think 1 ½ hrs. was about right. The pan was lightly oiled before the dough went in.


The pizza was soft and pillowy, and it was still soft on the bottom. I didn't want it crunchy like Sicilian. Tonight I'll bake it on the lowest rack so the top doesn't turn out as dry. Adding more sauce and cheese should help too, but I don't want the cheese to be burnt. I want it to be oozy.

[moosebytes]

My slab was really good, but slightly doughy in the middle where the sauce and cheese pooled. It baked for 13 minutes at 500 degrees. I'm not sure how to fix that. I'll try increasing the bake time by 2 minutes next time. It baked on the bottom rack of the oven on a preheated baking stone. The bottom was slightly crispy, which was not my goal and which didn't happen with my first try. I think next time I won't use the baking stone, and may stick a baking sheet under my pan for insulation.


The dough was started at 11:30 AM, and I put it in the pan to rise at 4:30 PM. Stretch and folds were done every half hour or so until I felt it had enough structure and was getting puffy (maybe about 3 hours after mixing the dough?). I let the dough rise in the pan for about 1 ½ hrs. before baking. 



We both agreed that we could have eaten more, so I'll use my ¼-sheet pan for the next bake. Yeast amount seems to be fine, but I may want to increase the oil and sugar amounts. Since Neapolitan doesn't have oil or sugar, I'm not sure of the amounts I should use.

[moosebytes]

they didn't pre bake and i don't want
 to go down that road

I think pre-baking will get you crunchy-on-the-bottom Sicilian.

[moosebytes]

great info.  i will work out a batch this weekend and upadare.  i like what you are doing, mostly  the longer rise and the multiple,stretch fold. ,i,am going to do little,more yeast and more later rise flips.  i am for sure doing one exactly like you wrote..  thank you for taking a go at this.

don.

After I poured my dough on the counter onto LOTS of bench flour, I gently pulled it out a bit, poked it with my fingertips, and flipped it. I did this a couple of times with 10-minute rests in between and then into the pan to rise. After the 1 ½ hr. rise, I topped it with 5 oz. of sauce, 2 ½-3 oz. of shredded cheese, dried oregano, pepperoni, EVOO, and sea salt.


Good luck! I'll be interested to see how you make out. Too bad we can't eat pizza every night.

[moosebytes]

Good! I forgot to add it and just used 100% ap. 

I have not. I'm pretty sure this formula won't produce anything similar anyway. So far, it's looking "good". I mixed the flour and water and yeast together, let sit for 35 minutes then mixed the rest of the ingredients together and added to the flour mixture. Poured it in the pan I'll be baking in and now it's sitting on the stove under the microwave light. I'm waiting to see some heavy action before I decide if I'm going to de-gas and let rise again or just go straight to a 550 oven. I'm leaning towards just straight to the oven.

Although I still think the hydration level is to high in the recipe, using bread flour instead of AP flour might help. It would give it more structure. Maybe more time in between your stretch and folds would allow the gluten to develop. You need a fair amount of gluten to support all those bubbles.

[dmaclaren]

Thanks for the update, I am glad you took this on, you are doing great and the info is nice.  I am going to give it a go again tomorrow, just wanted to make sure I had proper time to give it so I could hit all the times areas.


I'll update and try to get pics of the progression.

[DreamingOfPizza]

My slab was really good, but slightly doughy in the middle where the sauce and cheese pooled. It baked for 13 minutes at 500 degrees. I'm not sure how to fix that. I'll try increasing the bake time by 2 minutes next time. It baked on the bottom rack of the oven on a preheated baking stone. The bottom was slightly crispy, which was not my goal and which didn't happen with my first try. I think next time I won't use the baking stone, and may stick a baking sheet under my pan for insulation.


The dough was started at 11:30 AM, and I put it in the pan to rise at 4:30 PM. Stretch and folds were done every half hour or so until I felt it had enough structure and was getting puffy (maybe about 3 hours after mixing the dough?). I let the dough rise in the pan for about 1 ½ hrs. before baking. 



We both agreed that we could have eaten more, so I'll use my ¼-sheet pan for the next bake. Yeast amount seems to be fine, but I may want to increase the oil and sugar amounts. Since Neapolitan doesn't have oil or sugar, I'm not sure of the amounts I should use.

That looks great! Looks like you are on the right track with this one!

[dmaclaren]

I didn't get to make one yesterday, will try to start one  shortly

[dmaclaren]

I just started a go at this.
I'll post numbers

All mixing is done in stand mixer, I want to try no hand mixing.

1 - Mixed Flour, water, sugar, yeast - Let stand for 15 minutes
2 - Mixed in salt and oil (read about oil/fat after dough hydrates and not to block it)
3 - Rise 10 minutes
4 - Mixed 10 seconds
5 - Rise 20 minutes
6 - Mixed 10 seconds
7 - Rise 20 minutes
8 - Mixed 10 seconds
9 Rise......  Total  since mix 2:30 minutes.  - It has nice pillow feel and it has structure   deflated and put on a sheet pan.

[moosebytes]

I just started a go at this.
I'll post numbers

All mixing is done in stand mixer, I want to try no hand mixing.

1 - Mixed Flour, water, sugar, yeast - Let stand for 15 minutes
2 - Mixed in salt and oil (read about oil/fat after dough hydrates and not to block it)
3 - Rise 10 minutes
4 - Mixed 10 seconds
5 - Rise 20 minutes
6 - Mixed 10 seconds
7 - Rise 20 minutes
8 - Mixed 10 seconds
9 Rise......  Total  since mix 2:30 minutes.  - It has nice pillow feel and it has structure   deflated and put on a sheet pan.

It’s looking really good! I’m looking forward to your next update. I’m anxious to try it again.
FYI...I have also read that sugar is hygroscopic so, just to be safe, I don’t mix that in until after the autolyse.

[dmaclaren]

So this was the shot, looking great, but flipping it like they did took all air out, right back to flat. 

The only hope is the final rise but his were nice and pillowy when ht put into his sheet pans, my deflated 100 on it's own.  No good.

It was great when it was in the pan, then this last hour, boooooo


Now I will have to try again.  Not sure what happened from the pan to the sheet and the structure let go.  I am still going to bake it though.

MAybe I need to shorted the rise and work it more before the end.  I started all this at 12:25

[dmaclaren]

So I need to cut back on some flour as it appears a little too much for the pan, 1/2 sheet.

I will cook this one though ans see how it is.

Since I like the first picture and then not the last one, after the clip, as it didn't hold up I will try again tomorrow. 

I checked the temp of the proofer and it was like 88 degrees  on the towel covering the dough.  So I will start to crack the proofer and or room temp, 71 degrees for the while time. 

I really liked the feel of the dough in the first picture, it was so promising.

[dmaclaren]

It went into the 1.4 sheet as flat as can be as all the air deflated on it's own. It did however, rise up nice after about 1.5 hours in pan.


My goal is to get it into the pan like his where it is nice and pillowy

[dmaclaren]

Not happy with results.
1.  I think under cooked a little, but I didn't want too much cheese to dry wanted it gooey.
2.  I believe too much dough for the 1/2 sheet as it is too dense but nice and light.
3.  it was very soft though.

[dmaclaren]

Tomorrow, I am going to try again and do the following.

1.  Reduce the flour for the 1/2 sheet
2.  Reduce time from 20 min between the 3 mixes to 10 minutes.
3.  Proof on the counter in 72 degree room
4.  more cheese
5.  Cook 17 minutes, even with less dough.  If top darkens too much will stop and see how it is.


Here is the formula for tomorrow
 

Code: [Select]

Flour (KABF): 100%   368g
Water: 88%           324g
IDY: 1.25%           4.6g
Salt: 2%             7.3g
Oil: 2%              7.3g
Sugar: 2%            7.3g


[moosebytes]

So this was the shot, looking great, but flipping it like they did took all air out, right back to flat. 

The only hope is the final rise but his were nice and pillowy when ht put into his sheet pans, my deflated 100 on it's own.  No good.

It was great when it was in the pan, then this last hour, boooooo


Now I will have to try again.  Not sure what happened from the pan to the sheet and the structure let go.  I am still going to bake it though.

MAybe I need to shorted the rise and work it more before the end.  I started all this at 12:25

I don’t think my dough deflated before I put it in the pan, but I was very gentle with it. After rising for 1 ½ hrs. in the pan, it was very pillowy. Did you use a pizza steel or stone? Mine was slightly doughy, so I'm wondering if I should cut down the amount of dough that goes into the pan. I don’t think I’m going to be able to try again until the weekend.

[moosebytes]

Not happy with results.
1.  I think under cooked, but I didn't want too much cheese to dry wanted it gooy.
2.  I believe too much dough for the 1/2 sheet as it is too dense but nice and light.
3.  it was very soft though.

What was your oven temp? The highest temp on mine is 500 degrees, but I'm going to move it as far past that as I can before it hits broil. Maybe it will get close to the 550 degrees he uses at Slab.

[dmaclaren]

I used Fibrament-D stone from https://bakingstone.com/  3/4"

it was 500 when I put it in.  I think the temp is okay if I cut the amount of dough down. 
If not, I will try heating oven to the 500 but heating the stone to 600 on grill. then placing it in oven.

TOmorrow we shall see, I really am making too many adjustments in one try but I kind have htese thoughts in my head of htings to change.  #1 change is the amount of dough. 

[dmaclaren]

You mixed it then did 3 stretch and folds or the mix after hydration counted as 1 of the three?

[dmaclaren]

So todays sample


 

Code: [Select]

For a 1/2 sheet pan.
Flour (KABF): 100%   368g
Water: 88%           324g
IDY: 1.25%           4.6g
Salt: 2%             7.3g
Oil: 2%              7.3g
Sugar: 2%            7.3g



I am dusting with flour to give it that skin, as he called it, to remove any sticking so it will not pull and deflate on flips and be easy to work with.
Lots of attention this dough is, not sure how they do it for all the customers.


Mix yeast, water, flour, sugar
10 Min rest
Mix oil, salt just to combined
10 Min rest
mix 10 seconds (basically until it pulled from side)
10 min rest
mix 10 seconds (basically until it pulled from side)
10 Min rest
mix 10 seconds (basically until it pulled from side)
20 Min rest
flip
20 Min rest
Flip
30 min rest
Move to sheet pan
1.5 hour rest
Bake 15 min

...