Help recreating - Slab Portland, ME it's such like soft pillow, thoughts?

[moosebytes]

I used Fibrament-D stone from https://bakingstone.com/  3/4"

it was 500 when I put it in.  I think the temp is okay if I cut the amount of dough down. 
If not, I will try heating oven to the 500 but heating the stone to 600 on grill. then placing it in oven.

TOmorrow we shall see, I really am making too many adjustments in one try but I kind have htese thoughts in my head of htings to change.  #1 change is the amount of dough.

I had my Fibrament stone on an upper rack and my baking steel on the lowest rack last time in case I needed to move the pizza if it was browning too much on the top or the bottom. I ended up leaving it on the bottom rack. I'm thinking of going with no stone or steel next time--whenever that is. Like you said, changing too many things at once is risky so next time might be just that change. After that, I'm going to try a Hawaiian with roasted fresh pineapples and onions.

[dmaclaren]

moosebytes - Do you like your fibrament?  I have two of them and they are only a few years old.  My orig round one is like 14 years old, a little pitted on top.  I read where some people think it's causing them to lose ability to remember things


I didn't like this go;
- I used the less dough
- I did the 3 mixes 10 min rather than 20 min in-between
- it was in 72 degree house and not in proofer

I can get it to hold up nice and take shape with the air inside.  THat last like flip to when I put in pan, it loses the structure to hold up well and  I need that longer rise in pan.


I must have had to much sauce cause it collapsed and still with less dough.  Oh, it was super tasty, best yet in flavor.  I didn't get as much open crumb as you.  it was super light eating though.


Not sure what the next iteration will be.  If you try again, can you up to the 1/2 sheet and try?


I wouldn't make this pizza, with these results normally because of the time involved in making it, so much hands on.

[moosebytes]

You mixed it then did 3 stretch and folds or the mix after hydration counted as 1 of the three?

I did not count the mixing after hydration as a stretch and fold. To be honest, I'm not sure I even counted the stretch and folds. I think you want to stop doing stretch and folds after the dough feels like it has enough structure and just let it rise undisturbed for maybe an hour or two.

[DreamingOfPizza]

I wonder if higher gluten flour is needed? it might help with the collapsing.

Dmaclaren, did you happen to get a crumb shot? You said the sauce and cheese weigh it down a bit, the crumb shots from slab show a high crust and a puffy, yet moderatly weighed down under the cheese and sauce.
To me the crumb to get so cotton candy like that and billowy it needs some structure to hold itself up like that. High gluten may help.... maybe.

[moosebytes]

moosebytes - Do you like your fibrament?  I have two of them and they are only a few years old.  My orig round one is like 14 years old, a little pitted on top.  I read where some people think it's causing them to lose ability to remember things


I didn't like this go;
- I used the less dough
- I did the 3 mixes 10 min rather than 20 min in-between
- it was in 72 degree house and not in proofer

I can get it to hold up nice and take shape with the air inside.  THat last like flip to when I put in pan, it loses the structure to hold up well and  I need that longer rise in pan.


I must have had to much sauce cause it collapsed and still with less dough.  Oh, it was super tasty, best yet in flavor.  I didn't get as much open crumb as you.  it was super light eating though.


Not sure what the next iteration will be.  If you try again, can you up to the 1/2 sheet and try?


I wouldn't make this pizza, with these results normally because of the time involved in making it, so much hands on.

Yes, I like my Fibrament. I ordered a rectangular size that covers almost the entire rack of my oven, and have had it for several years. I use it more for bread baking than pizza. I usually make pizza in our indoor wood fired oven. Interesting about the memory loss claims. I don't know how people make these connections.


Your pizza looks great! Sorry it didn't live up to your expectations. So, you don't recommend cutting back on the amount of dough? When I started down this path, I believe I made a note of how much dough they used to fill a full sheet pan, and used an eighth of that amount for my 1/8th sheet pan.


My next one will be in a ¼ sheet pan. There are only two of us so I don't know when I'll try the half sheet pan. The other thing is that the bigger the pan, the harder it is to manage moving the dough into it without a disaster. I'll have to work up my courage and my appetite.

[dmaclaren]

so the first 1/4 sheet I did was your size doubled.  I loved it but it was a little much dough I thought crammed in the pan to get me the more open crumb.  The reduced one was 85% of that which was a little more than the very first one I did.

Now it's all about the rise for sure and the work should be there.  I just want to have the dough with enough form like the videos that show the pillow  air filled that they flip and he folds into the pan.  I don't know, maybe when it's enough for a full pan, for them which I think may be a 2/3's because it doesn't look as big as  a full makers sheet.


I wonder if I should try more yeast for the structure?
It was holding up nice than about the second flip it was losing the ability to hold up and not flatten out.  Then when I put it int he pan to do the last rise it was almost flat.

[moosebytes]

so the first 1/4 sheet I did was your size doubled.  I loved it but it was a little much dough I thought crammed in the pan to get me the more open crumb.  The reduced one was 85% of that which was a little more than the very first one I did.

Now it's all about the rise for sure and the work should be there.  I just want to have the dough with enough form like the videos that show the pillow  air filled that they flip and he folds into the pan.  I don't know, maybe when it's enough for a full pan, for them which I think may be a 2/3's because it doesn't look as big as  a full makers sheet.


I wonder if I should try more yeast for the structure?
It was holding up nice than about the second flip it was losing the ability to hold up and not flatten out.  Then when I put it int he pan to do the last rise it was almost flat.

I just looked at the Slab video again, and I'm pretty sure it's a full sheet pan. The pizza is cut into 8 pieces, each weighing about a pound. They say "A half a slab is a half a sheet pan, and a full slab weighs in at a whopping 8 pounds of lumpy, bumpy perfection...". Did you notice how he flips the bottom third of the dough under and the top third over before moving it to the oiled pan? That is going to take some practice for me.


Do you think increasing the amount of yeast would give it more structure? I't would cause it to rise faster. Slower rises give the dough more flavor. Another thing to consider is that the room temperature it's rising at in the restaurant is probably much higher than home room temperature. Unless I'm short on time, I'll go for the longer rise. Neither the Slab video or the Micucci's video mentions letting the dough rise in the pan before baking. So they must be able to get the dough in the pan without deflating. Mine wasn't as puffy as theirs until after the rise in the pan.


Let me know if you increase the yeast and what happens.

[dmaclaren]

when I look at he mucchis, at the end the woman bring the pan to the woman at the counter.  you can see that it's perfectly fitting the pan, they would have to have let the final rise happen in the pan I would think, if maybe 15 - 30 min.  the jiggle it has  mine had. 

I may try my last measurements but change the processing to what I did the first time to see if I do want less dough.

[moosebytes]

when I look at he mucchis, at the end the woman bring the pan to the woman at the counter.  you can see that it's perfectly fitting the pan, they would have to have let the final rise happen in the pan I would think, if maybe 15 - 30 min.  the jiggle it has  mine had. 

I may try my last measurements but change the processing to what I did the first time to see if I do want less dough.

In the Slab video, it looked like the pizza was pulled out to about the size of the pan before it was folded and transferred. I don't remember any mention of a final rise in the pan.


I'll probably have a go at it next week.

[dmaclaren]

I will try to carve out time to make one tomorrow.   I need to think about going back to the last one I likes, with a little too mich dough then maybe just cutting only the amounts and keeping the process.


Then I can change the process little by little and see how it works.   Last time I did too many things different for it to have been a proper test.

[DreamingOfPizza]

you guys are doing gods work. Good luck, because I really want to try this once you guys have it all figured out 

[moosebytes]

I will try to carve out time to make one tomorrow.   I need to think about going back to the last one I likes, with a little too mich dough then maybe just cutting only the amounts and keeping the process.


Then I can change the process little by little and see how it works.   Last time I did too many things different for it to have been a proper test.

I'll look forward to your results, and will probably be making a ¼ sheet one within the next few days.

[ebpizza]

Tried it again:
-more flour
-mix by hand with gentle folds every 30min , rise in pan 30min
-500F 10min no cheese
-spray oven with water at start of the bake
-add cheese cook at 425 and keep lower temp so not to burn cheese
-3hr room temp rise , not overnight

Still light and fluffy. 

[dmaclaren]

moosebytes, I was at Micucci's yesterday.  I was only able to catch a couple things while there but some more info on their process none the less.   And yeah, I had a plain cheese and pepperoni. 

1.  For sure this is a sweetened COOKED sauce, yummy for sure
2.  They do a bulk ferment for sure
3.  They are as light and airy when they are flipping on the bench rise
4.  For that non sticky dough, once they tension the high hydration dough (by tucking in the bottom) they then use a strainer to sift a large amount of flour on the portioned dough.  They coat it for sure, then towel to let rise more.


After watching that much, the person stopped working on it as she was about to take that bulk out and start  portioning.  MAybe they are super protective.

[moosebytes]

moosebytes, I was at Micucci's yesterday.  I was only able to catch a couple things while there but some more info on their process none the less.   And yeah, I had a plain cheese and pepperoni. 

1.  For sure this is a sweetened COOKED sauce, yummy for sure
2.  They do a bulk ferment for sure
3.  They are as light and airy when they are flipping on the bench rise
4.  For that non sticky dough, once they tension the high hydration dough (by tucking in the bottom) they then use a strainer to sift a large amount of flour on the portioned dough.  They coat it for sure, then towel to let rise more.


After watching that much, the person stopped working on it as she was about to take that bulk out and start  portioning.  MAybe they are super protective.

Hey dmaclaren!
Thanks for the info. I'm getting ready to try again today. I picked up some of Micucci's pizza sauce last time we were in Portland. How do you know their sauce is cooked? I can never get a good look at what they're doing because I can't see through the pizza into the kitchen.


My last attempt was doughy in the middle. I think I didn't use enough flour when I was working with the dough. It stuck to itself and deflated a little. I did notice afterwards that I completely forgot to add sugar to the dough so that probably didn't help. I may try increasing the amount of oil in the dough this time.


Tonight's pizza will be another quarter sheet and have Hawaiian toppings that hopefully won't weigh the dough down too much. I'll try to get results posted tomorrow.

[dmaclaren]

moosebytes - It had that nice sweet cooked flavor that raw can't produce.  I noticed it more this last time up there and really think it's key.

[moosebytes]

moosebytes - It had that nice sweet cooked flavor that raw can't produce.  I noticed it more this last time up there and really think it's key.

Don,
You don't think it could just be the tomatoes they use?


Anyway, I purchased a couple of tubs of their sauce last time I was there so that’s what I used. The pizza was very tasty, but I’m still getting a bit of doughiness in the center. If my plain cheese slabs hadn’t had the same issue, I would have blamed it on too many toppings. Any ideas on how to solve that problem? It's frustrating.


I won’t be trying again for awhile. The slab dough is really time intensive. I’m doing two Neapolitans tonight—so much easier!

[dmaclaren]

Been away from this for a bit.  I am going to try another this weekend.

[moosebytes]

Been away from this for a bit.  I am going to try another this weekend.

Good luck! Let me know how it turns out.

[dmaclaren]

I made one yesterday, was not real happy.  Used previous formula but mixed it shorter time and less resting between.  Was a little too dense, but great chew.  Too much sauce too.

still, I don't  get that pillow dough they seem to get, ever in the process