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Author Topic: Salt and yeast mix  (Read 3853 times)

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Offline parallei

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Re: Salt and yeast mix
« Reply #20 on: November 28, 2016, 11:25:19 AM »
In your B experiment, if you had used more yeast than for A and C, you might have gotten better performance out of B because the added yeast would have compensated for the salt-damaged yeast.

Peter

True.  However, I had it in my mind to use a "typical" dough formulation.

...........my preference is to have them follow the conventional advice regarding yeast. In due course, they may go their own way, and if they are happy with what they do, that is fine by me.

Peter

Absolutely.  I've been using the food processor for some doughs lately and have just been measuring the IDY and salt into the same small container (shot  glass) and letting the two sit together while I prep.  No ill effects.

Based on my half-assed "experiment", I just wouldn't pitch the IDY directly into the water that has had the salt dissolved into it.  Dough A is how I normally do things when mixing by hand.  I rarely use a stand mixer.

As an aside, the salt solution was 3.2% NaCl (mass) based on the Bakers %'s of 60% HR and 2% Salt.

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Salt and yeast mix
« Reply #21 on: November 28, 2016, 11:39:54 AM »
Based on my half-assed "experiment", I just wouldn't pitch the IDY directly into the water that has had the salt dissolved into it.

I don't see how you get that conclusion from an experiment with a 45 minute saltwater soak?
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Offline parallei

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Re: Salt and yeast mix
« Reply #22 on: November 28, 2016, 12:06:03 PM »
I don't see how you get that conclusion from an experiment with a 45 minute saltwater soak?

I would avoid it because it appears to impact yeast performance in a bad way.  Like you, I'd guess time (and salt solution concentration) would play a roll in how yeast performance is impacted.

That said, I'm just a practical type guy and would avoid it on GP's.

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Salt and yeast mix
« Reply #23 on: November 28, 2016, 12:41:36 PM »
I would avoid it because it appears to impact yeast performance in a bad way. 

Chugging a gallon of whiskey would impact your performance in a bad way; should you avoid all drinking? I just think the 45 minute soak is such an outlier that you can't necessarily infer anything from it when applied to a realistic scenario that may only be a minute or two. When I use IDY, I add it with the flour, so I don't have much of an opinion on that, but with SD, I'm convinced that adding the culture to the salted water makes better pizza and bread.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, baker's yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
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Offline parallei

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Re: Salt and yeast mix
« Reply #24 on: November 28, 2016, 01:01:36 PM »

I just think the 45 minute soak is such an outlier that you can't necessarily infer anything from it when applied to a realistic scenario that may only be a minute or two.

As noted above, I'm sure time would have something to do with it.  Now, if I was just motivated enough to do 15 mini-doughs over a 30 min period!  Maybe the next snow storm.

............ but with SD, I'm convinced that adding the culture to the salted water makes better pizza and bread.

I typically add the salt at the end with SD doughs.  I do this for two reasons, 1) my SD bread making was mostly learned with Robertson's Tartine Bread book, and 2) it weirds me out how the SD tightens up when it hits the salt solution.  Pretty scientific, huh? ;D

Anyway, one can happily mix dry salt and IDY together.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2016, 01:27:05 PM by parallei »

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Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Salt and yeast mix
« Reply #25 on: November 28, 2016, 01:36:32 PM »
2) it weirds me out how the SD tightens up when it hits the salt solution.

I haven't experienced that even with large additions on the order of 15-20% sd.
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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Salt and yeast mix
« Reply #26 on: November 28, 2016, 01:45:10 PM »
When I use IDY, I add it with the flour, so I don't have much of an opinion on that, but with SD, I'm convinced that adding the culture to the salted water makes better pizza and bread.
Craig,

I was once chided by Marco (pizzanapoletana) on this point, and that prompted this post by Marco that confirms your approach, at:

Reply 4 at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=1085.msg9695;topicseen#msg9695.

I think where a lot of the confusion arises is when the process is viewed as a single step process where the salt, water and yeast are mixed together all at the same time as opposed to a two-step process where the salt and water are mixed together and the yeast then added to the brine.

Peter

Offline parallei

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Re: Salt and yeast mix
« Reply #27 on: November 28, 2016, 04:03:35 PM »
I haven't experienced that even with large additions on the order of 15-20% sd.

I notice it more with smaller %'s of SD.  I mix by hand mostly.  The salt solution tightens ,or makes stringy, (or something), the gluten, or proteins, (or something) in the SD matrix.  I find it dissolves better into the water without the salt.  But that's just me......... I'm sure it doesn't make a difference one way or another.   

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Salt and yeast mix
« Reply #28 on: November 28, 2016, 04:14:52 PM »
I start with all the formula water, dissolve in all the salt, then using a whisk, dissolve in the SD which is usually ~2%. Maybe using the whisk I don't see it?
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, baker's yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
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Offline parallei

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Re: Salt and yeast mix
« Reply #29 on: November 28, 2016, 04:29:08 PM »
I start with all the formula water, dissolve in all the salt, then using a whisk, dissolve in the SD which is usually ~2%. Maybe using the whisk I don't see it?

Next up:  Stringiness experiment. 8)

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Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Salt and yeast mix
« Reply #30 on: November 28, 2016, 05:11:03 PM »
If it's anything, it's just wet gluten with the starch washed away like is seen in the experiments Norma has done.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, baker's yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
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Offline The Dough Doctor

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Re: Salt and yeast mix
« Reply #31 on: November 29, 2016, 12:59:19 PM »
Parallei;
Your first step needs to be to define "stringiness" and then what you hope to show in your experiment, followed by an experimental plan/design.
We could have used you when we were doing our research! :)
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

Offline stetip

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Re: Salt and yeast mix
« Reply #32 on: February 22, 2017, 07:22:20 PM »
Guys, thanks for this. Being a novice this was a great help to me and a great read. Really love this pizza science. Like being back at school.
Thanks for all the replies, most great full.
Steve

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