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Author Topic: Confused about direct and indirect though  (Read 438 times)

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Offline ilya_n

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Confused about direct and indirect though
« on: March 17, 2021, 08:24:08 AM »
Hey all,

Forgive me in advance if this has been answered but I couldn't find the info.
I starting making my own pizza and have been pretty good/successful. So far I've followed the recipes from Vito Iacopelli mostly and made pizza with poolish. I then stumbled upon the Elements of Pizza book (after making the breads from FWSY) and used the straight dough as well as biga recipes.

So far I can say that using poolish and straight dough recipes were not a problem and I got the hang of it. All my recipes are at 70% hydration. When making biga recipe last weekend (also 70%) everything came out great but I felt the dough was a bit more fragile when I started stretching it. It would stretch thinner and was more of a rectangular to start with. In previous makings, the ball shape contained itself better. I'm not sure if biga came out more hydrated vs other recipes but it made me think.

If I'm not a pizzeria and don't worry about the time it takes to make pizza but at the same time I use 100% of my flour in BIGA... does it even make sense/difference to to use biga as pre-ferment rather than using straight doughs? If I used portion of flour - I understand the remaining portion doesn't get as preferemented but in my case particularly:

so comparison is this: all flour in biga and then add water and salt
vs: all ingredients mixed in and let to ferment for as long as it takes

I'm sure there are multiple opinions on this but something I've been searching an answer on the last few days :)


Thanks in advance,
Ilya

Offline ARenko

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Re: Confused about direct and indirect though
« Reply #1 on: March 17, 2021, 09:54:15 AM »
What flour are you using? 

From what I've seen, it's normal that 100% biga dough with 70% hydration will not maintain a ball shape, but if done right it should not be so fragile to shape.  Possibly it was over fermented. 

Your question was recently asked here...

https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=68737.msg664414#msg664414


Offline ARenko

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Re: Confused about direct and indirect though
« Reply #2 on: March 17, 2021, 10:00:02 AM »
These are the advantages of indirect method (compared to direct method) mentioned in Fabrizio Casucci's The Perfect Pizza Dough...

Better shelf life
More intense scent
Larger and more developed alveoli
High digestibility

Offline ilya_n

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Re: Confused about direct and indirect though
« Reply #3 on: March 17, 2021, 10:28:02 AM »
What flour are you using? 

From what I've seen, it's normal that 100% biga dough with 70% hydration will not maintain a ball shape, but if done right it should not be so fragile to shape.  Possibly it was over fermented. 

Your question was recently asked here...

https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=68737.msg664414#msg664414

Thank you. I'll take a look at the link. I may have phrased it wrong. It's not that it was breaking apart, it just wasn't as round as from my previous cooks when moving the "ball" from the tray onto the bench. It felt more spreading/liquidy/sticky if you know what I mean.

Offline ilya_n

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Re: Confused about direct and indirect though
« Reply #4 on: March 17, 2021, 10:29:22 AM »
These are the advantages of indirect method (compared to direct method) mentioned in Fabrizio Casucci's The Perfect Pizza Dough...

Better shelf life
More intense scent
Larger and more developed alveoli
High digestibility

Thank you! Based on this, I will continue playing with BIGA and maybe scale the hydration back a bit.

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Offline ARenko

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Re: Confused about direct and indirect though
« Reply #5 on: March 17, 2021, 10:34:05 AM »
Marco Fuso did a live cooking of 100% biga on FB.  See if his dough balls are similar to what you're seeing.  You can see them around 53:00...


Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Confused about direct and indirect though
« Reply #6 on: March 17, 2021, 11:13:20 AM »
These are the advantages of indirect method (compared to direct method) mentioned in Fabrizio Casucci's The Perfect Pizza Dough...

Better shelf life
More intense scent
Larger and more developed alveoli
High digestibility

That's an apples-oranges comparison of the methods that assumes a short final fermentation time for both.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, baker's yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
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Offline ARenko

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Re: Confused about direct and indirect though
« Reply #7 on: March 17, 2021, 12:34:38 PM »
That's an apples-oranges comparison of the methods that assumes a short final fermentation time for both.
Probably correct.  I don't doubt you can get at least the high digestibility and large alveoli with the direct method.

Offline ilya_n

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Re: Confused about direct and indirect though
« Reply #8 on: March 17, 2021, 12:50:47 PM »


Mine were a bit flatter

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Confused about direct and indirect though
« Reply #9 on: March 17, 2021, 01:40:08 PM »
Probably correct.  I don't doubt you can get at least the high digestibility and large alveoli with the direct method.

Sure you can. Ferment longer - and the high digestibility thing is a myth.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, baker's yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

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Offline foreplease

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Re: Confused about direct and indirect though
« Reply #10 on: March 17, 2021, 02:54:58 PM »
Thank you! Based on this, I will continue playing with BIGA and maybe scale the hydration back a bit.
I was part of that other thread and was going to suggest it too. One thing that came out there is that biga is strictly 44% (double check that) water. Delaying the addition of some of your water may help your current problem. Read through it and ask questions there if you have any. Member Rolls has laid it all out very well. Your finished dough temperature is going to play into this too.
-Tony

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