A D V E R T I S E M E N T


Author Topic: Preferment  (Read 1481 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Smokedham

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 99
  • Age: 25
  • This forum is my favorite place on my phone.
Preferment
« on: March 08, 2023, 01:32:50 PM »
Do you guys approve of these recipes and fermentation instructions?

Poolish:
_ Flour 100%
_ Water 100%
_ Yeast 5 gr for 300 ml water up to 5 liters
_ Honey, the same amount of yeast
Fermentation:
1 hour RT and 16_24 hours CF

Biga:
_ flour 100%
_ water 45%
_ Fresh yeast, 10 grams per one kilo of flour
Fermentation:
First method: 1 hour RT and 24_48 hours CF
Second method: 16_24 hours RT
 
My question is in what styles of pizza, using poolish or Biga is common?

Offline Swinger-mike

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 348
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: Preferment
« Reply #1 on: March 08, 2023, 01:50:05 PM »
I approve that you keep away from even thinking about preferments before you havent mastered direct doughs.


Offline Smokedham

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 99
  • Age: 25
  • This forum is my favorite place on my phone.
Re: Preferment
« Reply #2 on: March 08, 2023, 01:53:38 PM »
why? It's pretty easy to make biga and poolish.

Offline Swinger-mike

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 348
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: Preferment
« Reply #3 on: March 08, 2023, 01:54:49 PM »
why even ask then if its so easy?

Offline Smokedham

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 99
  • Age: 25
  • This forum is my favorite place on my phone.
Re: Preferment
« Reply #4 on: March 08, 2023, 01:56:37 PM »
why even ask then if its so easy?
I'm asking in what styles of pizza they are common.

A D V E R T I S E M E N T


Offline Swinger-mike

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 348
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: Preferment
« Reply #5 on: March 08, 2023, 02:01:23 PM »
none.

they are common in bread.

Offline Smokedham

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 99
  • Age: 25
  • This forum is my favorite place on my phone.
Re: Preferment
« Reply #6 on: March 08, 2023, 02:09:49 PM »
none.

they are common in bread.
That was surprising
Have you ever baked a Neapolitan pizza using biga?
« Last Edit: March 08, 2023, 03:47:21 PM by Smokedham »

Offline bjk

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 158
Re: Preferment
« Reply #7 on: March 08, 2023, 02:33:34 PM »
I would lower the yeast significantly and remove the honey. I know Vito calls for it in his recipe but it is simply an un-needed added step and ingredient. I personally do not like cold fermentation for such short periods of time but that doesn't mean they shouldn't be used. I also personally don't see a difference in my pizza when I use a poolish vs a direct dough when both take about 24 hours. I agree with the above comment about mastering a direct dough first however because it is the most simple way possible.

Have you ever made pizza dough and then baked a pizza is a more important question right now, I think. If so, what did you not like about the result and what do you wish you would have achieved but didn't? If you haven't made dough and baked a pizza then start with the basics of just flour, water, salt, and yeast. A 24hr room temp fermentation is my go to but there are plenty of different methods.

Offline Smokedham

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 99
  • Age: 25
  • This forum is my favorite place on my phone.
Re: Preferment
« Reply #8 on: March 08, 2023, 03:25:29 PM »
I had assumed that using poolish would reduce the fermentation time in addition to improving the taste, since Vito Iacopelli always emphasizes these two points, plus if they uses poolish in their dough, which they does 90% of the time, the fermentation time would be like:
bulk RT ferment 30 min then ball up and 1-2 hours RT ferment. 
In confirmation of your words, I must say that this is the opinion of pizza shark, who seems to be a professional and expert pizzaiolo, "I just got done screwing around with a poolish following Vito's YouTube recipe and it made absolutely no difference over the basic OONI dough recipe that  I'll do an overnight CF with.  Won't waste my time with that again.YMMV though. 
Now I think Vito uses poolish as a signature/touch in the pizza industry more than anything else.
« Last Edit: March 08, 2023, 03:43:20 PM by Smokedham »

Offline Timpanogos Slim

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1378
  • Age: 47
  • Location: Utah
  • Pizza time! Pizza time! Pizza time!
Re: Preferment
« Reply #9 on: March 08, 2023, 04:18:04 PM »
I had assumed that using poolish would reduce the fermentation time in addition to improving the taste, since Vito Iacopelli always emphasizes these two points, plus if they uses poolish in their dough, which they does 90% of the time, the fermentation time would be like:
bulk RT ferment 30 min then ball up and 1-2 hours RT ferment. 
In confirmation of your words, I must say that this is the opinion of pizza shark, who seems to be a professional and expert pizzaiolo, "I just got done screwing around with a poolish following Vito's YouTube recipe and it made absolutely no difference over the basic OONI dough recipe that  I'll do an overnight CF with.  Won't waste my time with that again.YMMV though. 
Now I think Vito uses poolish as a signature/touch in the pizza industry more than anything else.

A preferment is a way of getting some of the flavor of a long ferment without necessarily fermenting for a long time. As i understand it.

I like the pizza dough i am making with a preferment, an overnight bulk ferment, and then another night under refrigeration. I would be doing the overnight bulk (in the 12-15c range) and the overnight in the refrigerator regardless, and with a poolish, i like it a little better.

I also like how a poolish improves the flavor of the bread i make, which goes from mixer to oven in 3-4 hours.

In my case, it's something that takes me a few minutes to mix up the night before i mix the dough which seems to have a payoff.

I agree with bjk that the preferment should contain no honey or other sugars and should have maybe 10% of the yeast amount you suggested. If not less.

And while i appreciate that you may be enjoying the collection of information and thinking about the best way to go about things, i think that getting your hands into the dough and trying some things will help you learn much faster, and help you understand the things you are reading.
There are many kinds of pizza, and *Most of them can be really good.
- Eric

A D V E R T I S E M E N T


Offline Smokedham

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 99
  • Age: 25
  • This forum is my favorite place on my phone.
Re: Preferment
« Reply #10 on: March 08, 2023, 05:13:18 PM »
A preferment is a way of getting some of the flavor of a long ferment without necessarily fermenting for a long time. As i understand it.
Eric, by overnight you mean something between 8 to 16 hours?  I wonder if you ever made a New York style dough or a pan style pizza by Poolish and if yes, how do you describe that experience? Thank you for your advice about the real learning.

Offline Smokedham

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 99
  • Age: 25
  • This forum is my favorite place on my phone.
Re: Preferment
« Reply #11 on: March 08, 2023, 05:15:39 PM »
Also, thanks to both of you for correcting the amount of yeast and the honey removing part.

Offline halfprice

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1232
  • Location: Whittier, Ca
Re: Preferment
« Reply #12 on: March 08, 2023, 06:05:20 PM »
I've said this before on other threads and will say it again here I like and follow vitos poolish recipe.  It's my go to recipe now.  Easy and makes a great pizza.  I do add honey. Don't know if it does anything or not but I have honey here all the time so it's added. I like a big airy crust and the flavor I get.    I've tried numerous styles and procedures, long cf, 24 hr rt etc and always come back to vitos.   

Jerry

Offline Timpanogos Slim

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1378
  • Age: 47
  • Location: Utah
  • Pizza time! Pizza time! Pizza time!
Re: Preferment
« Reply #13 on: March 08, 2023, 06:09:31 PM »
Eric, by overnight you mean something between 8 to 16 hours?  I wonder if you ever made a New York style dough or a pan style pizza by Poolish and if yes, how do you describe that experience? Thank you for your advice about the real learning.

It's fairly cold in my kitchen at night, in the winter, so yes. I will probably change my strategy a bit in the summer.

My day-to-day pizza is much thinner than regular NY style and I'm not sure it easily fits into any major category. I think i have not done a pan style or regular NY style with a preferment yet.
There are many kinds of pizza, and *Most of them can be really good.
- Eric

Online Pete-zza

  • Lifetime Member
  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 31499
  • Location: Texas
  • Always learning
Re: Preferment
« Reply #14 on: March 08, 2023, 08:06:24 PM »
Eric, by overnight you mean something between 8 to 16 hours?  I wonder if you ever made a New York style dough or a pan style pizza by Poolish and if yes, how do you describe that experience? Thank you for your advice about the real learning.
Smokedham,

Several years ago, I tried to help member Norma make a NY style dough using preferments, including a poolish. You can see an example of a dough recipe that I came up with using a poolish at:

Reply 149 at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=9908.msg88687#msg88687

There were some fits and starts but eventually Norma came up with a poolish-based pizza that she liked a lot. She discussed her results starting at:

Reply 171 at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=9908.msg89247#msg89247

You might find it useful to scan the thread that I cited to get a feel for how a poolish can be used to make a NY style pizza.

Peter

A D V E R T I S E M E N T


Offline Smokedham

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 99
  • Age: 25
  • This forum is my favorite place on my phone.
Re: Preferment
« Reply #15 on: March 09, 2023, 10:10:57 AM »
I like these different points of view. I know which Vito'recipe you are referring to. Jerry, Have you ever tried Vito's pistachio mortadella topping, it looks great.

I like Vito a lot, their energy and passion about pizza is great. I wish I could bake pizza with him.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2023, 05:03:53 PM by Smokedham »

Offline halfprice

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 1232
  • Location: Whittier, Ca
Re: Preferment
« Reply #16 on: March 09, 2023, 10:18:51 AM »
I like these different points of view. I know which Vito'recipe you are referring to. Jerry, Have you ever tried Vito's pistachio mortadella topping, it looks great.

I like Vito a lot, their energy and passion about pizza is great. I wish I could bake pizza with Vito.
No. Haven't seen that video.   I've only seen a couple of vitos videos.   I should watch more of his videos to get some ideas but I normally just make "my" typical pizza

Jerry

Offline Smokedham

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 99
  • Age: 25
  • This forum is my favorite place on my phone.
Re: Preferment
« Reply #17 on: March 09, 2023, 10:21:18 AM »
Thank you for the answer. Yes, I have seen one of your pizzas, in the slice that you posted, the dough was so thin that the tomato sauce was visible, it remained in my mind.

Offline Smokedham

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 99
  • Age: 25
  • This forum is my favorite place on my phone.
Re: Preferment
« Reply #18 on: March 09, 2023, 10:24:09 AM »
Thank you peter, the dough was perfect, but the sauce and cheese were a little bit mixed together.

Offline Smokedham

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 99
  • Age: 25
  • This forum is my favorite place on my phone.
Re: Preferment
« Reply #19 on: March 09, 2023, 10:33:55 AM »
oh, I'm curious about your typical pizza, I should check the post a pic of your pie's board sometimes.

A D V E R T I S E M E N T


 

wordpress