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Author Topic: Put Cheese down first, or sauce down first?  (Read 1211 times)

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Offline Santo

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Put Cheese down first, or sauce down first?
« on: March 10, 2022, 10:59:55 PM »
What's the reality here? I personally want to make some stunning work with the cheese on top, in line with what i consider to be tradition.

I think most nyc pizzerias put sauce down first. of course you have the upside down pies here and there, obviously like L&B, and i'm seeing that detroit style is always sauce on top. I'm shocked when i see that sauce go down post-bake. I guess i just live under a rock here in nyc!

I'm also seeing some stunning work where ppl are putting cheese layer, then sauce, then more cheese on top of that. Best of both worlds?

Also if using a higher hydration like 70% (looking to do Hans' detroit style pizza but making it with a sicilian presentation) is there even more of a reason to avoid putting sauce down first? Would this lead to an especially soggy pie?

And what exactly is the gum line?

Thanks.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2022, 09:00:40 AM by Santo »

Offline RHawthorne

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Re: Put Cheese down first, or sauce down first?
« Reply #1 on: March 11, 2022, 03:22:32 PM »
What's the reality here? I personally want to make some stunning work with the cheese on top, in line with what i consider to be tradition.

I think most nyc pizzerias put sauce down first. of course you have the upside down pies here and there, obviously like L&B, and i'm seeing that detroit style is always sauce on top. I'm shocked when i see that sauce go down post-bake. I guess i just live under a rock here in nyc!

I'm also seeing some stunning work where ppl are putting cheese layer, then sauce, then more cheese on top of that. Best of both worlds?

Also if using a higher hydration like 70% (looking to do Hans' detroit style pizza but making it with a sicilian presentation) is there even more of a reason to avoid putting sauce down first? Would this lead to an especially soggy pie?

And what exactly is the gum line?

Thanks.
My main reasons for putting sauce on top are that the sauce tastes better and more upfront, and leftovers hold up better. This is because the sauce isn't sitting right on top of the crust. Quite often when pizza gets reheated, the flavor of the sauce has completely disappeared because the sauce has just sunken into the crust over time. Gum line, as I understand it, is where the dough has not fully baked, leaving a gummy layer under the sauce and cheese. You see this a lot with cheaply made pizzas where the dough doesn't have a lot of time to ferment and the bake time is minimal. Little Caesar's is the worst offender on this point in the fast pizza world, in my experience.
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Online Pizza_Not_War

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Re: Put Cheese down first, or sauce down first?
« Reply #2 on: March 11, 2022, 06:10:45 PM »
I switch it up. Cheese first sometimes, especially if the sauce is wet and it will be sitting a bit before baking. If I'm using oil based sauce such as pesto that usually goes first. You can make two identical pizzas with just reordering ingredients and it tastes a lot different.

Offline Puzzolento

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Re: Put Cheese down first, or sauce down first?
« Reply #3 on: March 11, 2022, 07:09:18 PM »
My sauce always boils and comes through the cheese.

When I was in college in New York, I went to Ray's, and their pizza had cheese on top. It was melted but not browned, and the sauce stayed under it. I wonder how they did that.

Clarification: I went to the actual Ray's, not Original Ray's, Real Original Rays, Only Genuine Certified Ray's, Authentic Ray's, Cosmic Ray's or Gamma Ray's.
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Offline RHawthorne

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Re: Put Cheese down first, or sauce down first?
« Reply #4 on: March 11, 2022, 10:31:05 PM »
My sauce always boils and comes through the cheese.

When I was in college in New York, I went to Ray's, and their pizza had cheese on top. It was melted but not browned, and the sauce stayed under it. I wonder how they did that.

Clarification: I went to the actual Ray's, not Original Ray's, Real Original Rays, Only Genuine Certified Ray's, Authentic Ray's, Cosmic Ray's or Gamma Ray's.
I would guess they probably used sliced cheese.
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Offline Puzzolento

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Re: Put Cheese down first, or sauce down first?
« Reply #5 on: March 12, 2022, 10:16:00 AM »
I use slices.
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Sicilian pizza is Godzilla. Thin pizza is Japan.

Offline patnugent

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Re: Put Cheese down first, or sauce down first?
« Reply #6 on: March 19, 2022, 08:36:26 AM »
I do sliced cheese, sauce and then add a little bit of fresh mozz and pecorino romano on top.

Offline Pizza-Face

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Re: Put Cheese down first, or sauce down first?
« Reply #7 on: March 19, 2022, 03:27:56 PM »
My sauce always boils and comes through the cheese.

When I was in college in New York, I went to Ray's, and their pizza had cheese on top. It was melted but not browned, and the sauce stayed under it. I wonder how they did that.

Clarification: I went to the actual Ray's, not Original Ray's, Real Original Rays, Only Genuine Certified Ray's, Authentic Ray's, Cosmic Ray's or Gamma Ray's.

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Offline aks801

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Re: Put Cheese down first, or sauce down first?
« Reply #8 on: July 23, 2022, 12:04:01 AM »
For Sicilian, I ALWAYS put the sauce on top, it's the very last thing I put on.  I've always put a dollop in the middle of where each piece will be cut, but next time I may do the "rows" of sauce thing.
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Offline GumbaWill

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Re: Put Cheese down first, or sauce down first?
« Reply #9 on: July 24, 2022, 04:08:20 AM »
In my last experiment, I put down 2/3 of the sauce on the par-baked base. Then the last third is on top of a heavy cheese layer. I did this to keep the cheese from browning.
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Offline Santo

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Re: Put Cheese down first, or sauce down first?
« Reply #10 on: July 24, 2022, 12:30:44 PM »
In my last experiment, I put down 2/3 of the sauce on the par-baked base. Then the last third is on top of a heavy cheese layer. I did this to keep the cheese from browning.

hey your pizza looks cool what is the inspiration for that? how did you layer the cheese and how long did you let it melt in the oven? it looks like a lot of nicely melted , not browned cheese. but i dont see much sauce on top...

Offline GumbaWill

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Re: Put Cheese down first, or sauce down first?
« Reply #11 on: July 24, 2022, 01:07:22 PM »
Hi, Santos.
 Thanks. The inspiration is from Armondos pizza on Rockaway Parkway (The last stop of the "L" train, in Canarsie Brooklyn. They are still open and from what I hear still make a kick-ass Siscilano pizza! I did not nail their pie. However like you said a very cool pizza! Check out my thread "Hip to be square for more very cool Siciliano pies. This link should answer your questions. https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=74732.msg716871#msg716871
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