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Author Topic: More flavorful tavern crust?  (Read 856 times)

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Offline tjr

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More flavorful tavern crust?
« on: January 18, 2021, 09:18:06 PM »
Tonight I made some pretty good little tavern-styles, adapting somewhat from Renchero's Antioch/Waukegan style. Texture was excellent but the flavor of the crust was a little blah. Here's my recipe for 3 9"ers:

300g Ceresota AP flour
140g water
6g SAF Premium IDY
25g corn oil
6g salt

Using a breadmaker (it was already out from another project), mix flour, water and yeast until dough comes together in ragged pieces. Let stand 10 minutes. Add oil and salt. Knead until dough is just smooth. Let dough stand for 30 minutes. Form 3 balls and put in refrigerator for 48 hours. Allow to warm up for 1 hour. Roll to 9", roughly 1/8" thick. Rest 10 minutes.

Topped and baked on a screen using a stone heated to 525F. When the cheese was bubbly (5ish minutes), I took the pizzas off the screen and baked directly on the stone until the bottom was lightly browned.

How could I get a little more flavor into the crust? Ferment at room temperature for a few hours? Use a different yeast (SAF rises excellently for bread  but doesn't impart a lot of yeasty flavor)? And was that too little salt?

Thanks for any advice.

Offline jsaras

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Re: More flavorful tavern crust?
« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2021, 04:40:35 PM »
Tonight I made some pretty good little tavern-styles, adapting somewhat from Renchero's Antioch/Waukegan style. Texture was excellent but the flavor of the crust was a little blah. Here's my recipe for 3 9"ers:

300g Ceresota AP flour
140g water
6g SAF Premium IDY
25g corn oil
6g salt

Using a breadmaker (it was already out from another project), mix flour, water and yeast until dough comes together in ragged pieces. Let stand 10 minutes. Add oil and salt. Knead until dough is just smooth. Let dough stand for 30 minutes. Form 3 balls and put in refrigerator for 48 hours. Allow to warm up for 1 hour. Roll to 9", roughly 1/8" thick. Rest 10 minutes.

Topped and baked on a screen using a stone heated to 525F. When the cheese was bubbly (5ish minutes), I took the pizzas off the screen and baked directly on the stone until the bottom was lightly browned.

How could I get a little more flavor into the crust? Ferment at room temperature for a few hours? Use a different yeast (SAF rises excellently for bread  but doesn't impart a lot of yeasty flavor)? And was that too little salt?

Thanks for any advice.

Your salt level (2%) is fine IMO, but I think your bigger issue is fermentation.  Your yeast level is at 2%.  Iíd suggest using 0.2%.  BYW, an overt yeast flavor is a defect to be avoided. If you like that, I suggest swilling a lager
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Offline tjr

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Re: More flavorful tavern crust?
« Reply #2 on: January 20, 2021, 08:28:46 PM »
Thanks, will try dramatically less yeast. Should I ferment longer given the low level of yeast? If so, at room temperature or in fridge?

What I was trying to avoid is a bland taste like Passover matzah. Perhaps I'm worried about nothing.

Offline jsaras

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Re: More flavorful tavern crust?
« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2021, 08:49:24 PM »
Thanks, will try dramatically less yeast. Should I ferment longer given the low level of yeast? If so, at room temperature or in fridge?

What I was trying to avoid is a bland taste like Passover matzah. Perhaps I'm worried about nothing.

0.2% is perfect for 48 hours in the refrigerator.  Let it warm AT room temp for about an hour, but it can go as long as 3 or 4. 
Things have never been more like today than they are right now.

Offline PizzaGarage

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Re: More flavorful tavern crust?
« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2021, 01:47:31 AM »
A couple of ideas for you, first convert your formulation to bakers percent.

Replace corn oil with pure olive oil, since your in Chicago burbs, look for a Pete's Fresh market and get Minerva Pure Olive oil.  It has great flavor, forget EVOO.  Add 3-4% OO

Add white sugar at 1% NO more

I use .375 yeast SAF as my go to percentage

Typically the tavern is a lower hydration, I think your over 50%, if you want more crisp drop that to 48% or leave as is.

Drop oven temp to 475 and go right on the stone, no need for a screen.  Check the bottom a few times.

The old school south side tavern pizza places donít use the ďproperĒ dough management procedure, they make the dough and it goes right into a tub, a lid is placed on the tub and the dough sits there until it is used the next day. 

Now, itís good to take from the mixer ball and ferment at 48, go ahead and follow that procedure and see if you like it.  If you want to try something different, a combination of proper and old school is to make the dough and put it in a sealed container for 12 hours, oil the bottom and sides with the OO.  Place it in a shaded area.  After 12, punch down, ball and ferment for 48. Also use Kosher salt, iodine table salt really isnít all that clean tasting.  Kosher gives a stronger bite of salt and tastes clean.  I use 1.50 to 1.75 but 2.0 is fine.  Keep in mind there is salt typically in the sauce, cheese, meats etc..so you want to balance the salt across all that goes into the product.

Just some ideas for you.
« Last Edit: February 03, 2021, 01:53:52 AM by PizzaGarage »

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Offline tjr

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Re: More flavorful tavern crust?
« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2021, 01:13:07 PM »
Sorry, missed this reply a while back! Have only made pizza once in the past few weeks, good review by one eater at least!

Here's my recipe rewritten in %, with a lower amount of yeast as suggested by jsaras:

100% Ceresota AP
47% water
2% salt
8.3% corn oil
.33% SAF IDY

So I was close to that 48% water figure. Sounds like I should try less oil and 1% sugar. I have a can of the Lefas olive oil that seems to be the standard inexpensive oil at Tony's, Caputo's, Butera's, etc.

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