This site is addictive

[tzoavva]

OK so during the major snow storm in the Washington DC area i came across this website.  So had lots of time to surf the net  so started to read things on the website and got extremely excited and hungry to take a crack at making a pizza from scratch.  For xmas I bought a KitchenAid Mixer so this was perfect.  So with the ingredients on hand a attempted my first pizza.  Not even sure what recipe it was ....but I am sure it was the NY Style and had the wrong flour but hey still wanted something to curb my appetite and excitement.  So the first picture is the my first pizza which obviously I needed to do my homework.

So I decided to regroup read thru more posts.  Decided NY style is good but i like more of an American style.  So came across the next candidate "Randy's American Style Pizza Dough" found at the opening comment on the following post ....ok system will not let me since I am a new member   it is found under American Style and the Post is titled "Randy's dough recipe with pictures"

I used KABF, canola Oil and didn’t have IDY so instead i used ADY but didn't proof it at all just add about half of a 1/3 tsp more ADY (so i guess 1/6tsp).  I read and reread the instructions before starting out but made the mistake to not stop the mixer after the dough pulled from the side of my KitchenAid.  Instead i stopped it after the 5min mark.  Let it sit for 5min then.  And did a knead for the 12min listed at speed 2.  So in total i did some extra stirring at the beginning at the Stir setting but what the heck.  Just because I was curious at the temp of the dough at the end of the kneading it was at about 80F.    I divided the dough into 2 balls since I planned to do 2 12 inch pizzas.  Pic of the dough’s below.  I was surprised at how wonderful the texture/feel of the dough was with this recipe compared to the first pizza (NY) that I had made a few weeks ago.

Anyway stuck the dough in the fridge on Fri night.  Last night (Sat) after one day ferm i took the one ball out and made a pizza. Wow is all I have to say.  Amazing how easy to work with to spread it out and lift it and shape it and all to get it on the pan and dressed to be cooked.  I posted some progress fotos below.  By the way I used this link for ideas on how to work with the dough to shape it. (...another link that can't be posted but go to YouTube and search for "Tony Gemignani - How to Make Pizza Dough Fundamentals") Actually I had it playing while I worked on my pizza ....what can I say am a computer Geek with a love of cooking

So I have another pizza ball in the fridge that I plan on taking out today and have some questions in case someone sees this post and can answer.  I noticed after I took the pizza dough from fride for the 3hour rise that it kept its shape since i placed it lightly on my work surface.  I wasn't sure if I was supposed to press it down at that point and let it do a second rise.  So i didn't do it and let it just sit.  After the 3 hours I pressed it out and shaped it using the style in the video link I posted above.  Not sure if that was right or not.  Anyway I shaped it into a 12in pizza but put it on a 14 pan (didn't have a 12in).

I also read on a post somewhere about putting the pizza for few minutes at the bottom of a gas oven.  I did that on the first pizza i made (NY) so decided to do it on this one as well so put it at the bottom for 4min and then put it up on center of the rack for I think another 5min.  Oven was on 500.  Quick fast heating.

I will say again this was one awesome pizza.  Just the perfect thickness.  Crunchy on the outside but yet soft bready and light in the center.  Can't wait to see how the one today comes out after 2 day ferm.  So I am open for any and all suggestions comments.  Definitely a winner and thanks to everyone that has contribuited to this site...excellent tips and pointers for newbies like me.

[tzoavva]

few more pics that couldn't fit on the last post here. 

The sauce I used was one I found on here called

Papa John's Pizza Sauce...apparently from the Top Secret Recipes book from Todd Wibur

1 can tomato puree (10 3/4 ounce)
1/4 cup water
1 tablespoon sugar (I only used half)
1 teaspoon olive oil
1/4 teaspoon lemon juice
1/4 teaspoon salt
1/4 teaspoon oregano
1/8 teaspoon basil
1/8 teaspoon thyme
1/8 teaspoon garlic powder

Combine ingredients in a small saucepan over medium heat. Bring to a boil.
Reduce heat and simmer for 15 to 20 minutes.

note: On the recipe above I used half the sugar (1/2tbs).  Also I mixed up my measurements and did 1/4tsp on Basil and 1/4tsp of thyme so to fix my error I upped the oregano to 1/2tsp to ensure the basil and thyme didn't overwhelm the taste.

For Cheese I used

1/2 Cup Part Skim Mozzarela
1/4 Cup Maplebrook smoked Mozzarela
1/4 Cup Wisconsin Munster
1/4 Cup Aged Provolone Imported from Italy

As you can see wasn't sure what to use for the Cheses so said what the heck add them all.

.....that is all she wrote

Joanna

[sconosciuto]

Hi Tzoavva!

Congrats on the good looking pies and welcome to the addictive hobby of pizza making!

So I have another pizza ball in the fridge that I plan on taking out today and have some questions in case someone sees this post and can answer.  I noticed after I took the pizza dough from fride for the 3hour rise that it kept its shape since i placed it lightly on my work surface.  I wasn't sure if I was supposed to press it down at that point and let it do a second rise.  So i didn't do it and let it just sit.  After the 3 hours I pressed it out and shaped it using the style in the video link I posted above.  Not sure if that was right or not.  Anyway I shaped it into a 12in pizza but put it on a 14 pan (didn't have a 12in).

No need to punch down the dough after removing from the fridge.  While in the fridge (and during rising) the dough develops a nice airy/bubbly structure that is ruined every time you punch it down.  Punching the dough down before the final rise won't kill your pizza but your dough structure will be starting all over again and thus smaller bread-like hole structure instead of a bubbly structure sought after by many pizza makers.  Of course there's no one pizza style or school of thought so whatever tastes good to you is the right way to go.  Try both methods and decide which one you like more.

[scott123]

No need to punch down the dough after removing from the fridge.  While in the fridge (and during rising) the dough develops a nice airy/bubbly structure that is ruined every time you punch it down.  Punching the dough down before the final rise won't kill your pizza but your dough structure will be starting all over again and thus smaller bread-like hole structure instead of a bubbly structure sought after by many pizza makers.

That is not correct  Punch downs create MORE airy structure, not less.

Yeast eat the nutrients that are in their vicinity.  Over a long cold ferment, the yeast have a tendency to consume everything around them.  A punch down takes the yeast stuck in pockets with exhausted nutrients (and hostile alcohol) and redistributes them to nutrient rich areas of the dough. This is why a traditional bread dough may take as long as 6 hours to double during the first rise, but only an hour for the second. Punch downs whip the yeast into a frenzy. They are yeast activity accelerators.

Now, in theory, you could punch down a dough, come back about 30 minutes later and be able to open it.  If you jump the gun and don't let the yeast do it's thing, sure, you're talking a tighter crumb than without the punch down. As long as you give it some time, though (usually about an hour), the dough will be back to it's original volume AND the yeast will be that much more active going into the oven.  Oven spring is not just about heat expanding pockets of steam and air.  It's about yeast activity/CO2 production going off the charts as the temperatures rise, until, of course, it hits the 120 range and the yeast kick the bucket.

I don't recommend punch downs to everyone, but many home pizza makers are handicapped by cheap stones and suffer poor oven spring.  A punch down isn't going to completely counteract that, but every little bit helps.

[Randy]

Well done.  An excellent pizza by the pictures.

When I take it out of the fridge, I divide the dough in-half then reshape into a ball again.  I give them a good dusting with flour then cover with a plastic wrap.  You can spray the plastic wrap with Pam if you would prefer.  I then cover the plastic wrap covered dough balls with a kitchen towel.

Don't hesitate to try your hand at a Chicago deep dish or a cracker crust as well.  There are some wonderful recipes on this site and it is easy to find help as well.

Randy

[sconosciuto]

That is not correct  Punch downs create MORE airy structure, not less.

Yeast eat the nutrients that are in their vicinity.  Over a long cold ferment, the yeast have a tendency to consume everything around them.  A punch down takes the yeast stuck in pockets with exhausted nutrients (and hostile alcohol) and redistributes them to nutrient rich areas of the dough. This is why a traditional bread dough may take as long as 6 hours to double during the first rise, but only an hour for the second. Punch downs whip the yeast into a frenzy. They are yeast activity accelerators.

Now, in theory, you could punch down a dough, come back about 30 minutes later and be able to open it.  If you jump the gun and don't let the yeast do it's thing, sure, you're talking a tighter crumb than without the punch down. As long as you give it some time, though (usually about an hour), the dough will be back to it's original volume AND the yeast will be that much more active going into the oven.  Oven spring is not just about heat expanding pockets of steam and air.  It's about yeast activity/CO2 production going off the charts as the temperatures rise, until, of course, it hits the 120 range and the yeast kick the bucket.

I don't recommend punch downs to everyone, but many home pizza makers are handicapped by cheap stones and suffer poor oven spring.  A punch down isn't going to completely counteract that, but every little bit helps.

Ahhhh that's blasphemy!!!!   

Just kidding with you, but seriously that's not my experience at all.  Punching down the dough creates a tighter structure in the dough itself creating a more bread-like crumb.  It may re-activate the yeast somewhat but I've never had a problem with oven spring on a 1-3 day old dough even in my home oven.  Oven spring and airy texture are related but not the same thing.  I could easily demonstrate making a pizza with great oven spring and a dense crumb but that's not what I prefer(there are probably some who do).  There are many pizza styles as well as opinions. 

Like I mentioned before he should experiment with both methods and find out what works well for him.

[Pete-zza]

scott123,

Maybe you have already done so, but can you tell us what your dough recipe/formulation is for your NY style dough, and the fermentation protocol? A link would do fine if you have already posted on the recipe.

Peter

[tzoavva]

OK Pizza #2 was baked this evening after 48 Ferm.  So decided to switch somethings up and not sure if final outcome was due to the changes if the additional 24 hours ferm had an affect.

This dough ball obviously rose more then the one yesterday as you can see from the pics below.  So decided to punch down the dough a little bit at the time i took it out of the fridge for the 3 hour wait.  Figured less handling after.   

Toping made half with the same cheese combo yesterday (had already premeasured things yesterday and stored it away so only used half).  Decided to not add the Bacon Bits i used yesterday because I found it was a bit salty.

The other half I decided to put a prepackaged Italian shredded mixture bought from Safeway (Part Skim Mozzarella, Mild Cheddar, Provolone, and Asiago) and topped that half with Tomato slices. 

I preheated the oven at 500F.  I placed the pizza on the bottom of the oven and immediately dropped the temp to 450.  Let it sit there for 4min and then brought it up to the center of the oven for 6min more still at 450F.

This Pizza was allot more airy then yesterdays didn't have that crunch but it was great tasting.  Would have liked it a bit very bit more.  So not sure if I needed to cook it a bit more or just the additional time ferm caused it to not crunch as much.  Regardless I have to say this pizza recipe rocks.  I will definitely make it again and play around with some of the % to see how it affects things.  I bought some Bread Machine yeast that I think is IDY if I am not mistaken so curios to see how it will come out using that yeast.  Supprised also that without putting the yeast in water that it still worked its wonder when put straight into the flour.

Sooo enough talking here are the pics from this evening's pizza.

[Mad_Ernie]

Nothing wronig with that.   


Nice job! 

[Randy]

All the pizzas I have made using my recipe, during all the testing, I have never once rolled it out.  I think I will next time just to see what happens.  Your pizza pictures have inspired me to step out of the box.

Randy

[tzoavva]

Randy,  I also want to thank you for your recipe it was a great beginner recipe I might add.

OK so after making the recipe last time I decided to go back and redo it again but to flip/reverse things around to see if the 24-48 hour ferm played a role, or the deflating and then second rise, or lower temp in having the dough look and react different between the two days.

So for this test on the 24 hour ferm i used the large square bowl deflated the dough let it rest for 3 hours shaped the dough put it in the pan and while I was prepping things it did another rest/rise for 30min.  The results were a light and puffier dough similar to the last time that it had a 48ferm.

The dough that had a 48 hour ferm this time rested 3 hours and was immediately shaped.  This dough didn't rise as much  and didn't have that crunchy dough that I had noticed with the 24 ferm last time.  I will say this dough was placed in a small square plastic container and in the 48 hours
lets just say it exploded pat the rim so I am sure that played a role. 

Both were baked in a baking pan with holes on the bottom of my gas oven for 5min and then brought up to the top shelf for another 5min baking.  1st one oven was preheated to 500 once pizza went in temp changed down to 450.  Second one was at 500 the whole time.

So my takeaway for this experiment is definitely use large bowls to let the dough rest and ferm in the fridge to have space for expansion and the second thing is when you take it out deflate it let it do a second rise and then shape it and place it in the pan and let it rest another 30min. This definitely had an affect on the final dough.

Now all these results are with me not using IDY but instead ADY (1/6tsp more then original recipe) so that definitely also may have affected everything. 

Soooooooo next test is to use IDY with deflating and not deflating the dough prior to the 3 hour rest period before baking.  Results to follow.

For now see the images below first two are 24ferm next two are 48 ferm from this weeks test.  (note I am playing around with different sauces and cheeses as well to see what I like best as you will tell from the pics).

[Kalvin]

I've gotta agree - we bought a KitchenAid for Christmas as well and Randy's recipe was one of the first we tried. My wife and I love it, especially if we give it a 2-night rise.

I've tried both rolling the dough and stretching it by hand. Both work pretty well, just with my untrained hands stretching tends to yield an uneven crust thickness.

I've been using KABF - Randy or anyone else, how does it differ if you use KASL instead?

Kal

[Randy]

Kal and Tzoavva, thanks so much for the compliments.  It makes me feel good as well, that you folks have used the recipe as spring board to higher level of pizza making which is what Steve wanted from Pizzamaking all along.

Kal, KASL flour is still the best flour for my recipe but the difference is less pronounced than other pizza recipes.  If you have a good economical source of KASL, then certainly give it a try.

Randy

[Pizzalover95]

tzoavva I am a new member too. We seem to use the same pizza crisper your pizzas look amazing on the first try mine dnt even look that good after like 100 trys. How do you get the bottom done with a pizza cripser my bottoms are never done. Thanks for the mouth watering pics.