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Author Topic: For the love of Pinsa  (Read 2304 times)

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Offline DoouBall

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For the love of Pinsa
« on: May 21, 2020, 11:06:39 PM »
Guys I have been making a lot of Pinsa Romana/Pizza in Pala, and I have really fallen in love with the style. I’d like to start this thread to document my progress and discuss how to get better. Here’s my latest, based on a recipe from Dario Scopelliti.

Biga
500g strong flour
300g water
5g dry yeast (kind of thinking this should be 3g dry yeast for next time)

Combine for 4 minutes in spiral mixer and into fridge for 24 hours. Next day,

500g flour
500g water
20g evoo
25g salt

Add biga, flour and 300g water. Mix in spiral mixer for a few minutes on speed 1. Once pumpkin forms, turn to max speed and mix adding rest of 200g water in 8 increments or less. Add salt and then evoo at the end. Leave out at room temp for 1 hour, form balls and in fridge for 24 hours. Remove, warm up until balls triple, stretch and bake.

Par baked at 580-600F on a stone at bottom of oven for 4 minutes.

Cooled for 5+ mins. Topped and baked another 4-5 minutes to finish.

This time, I used 90% caputo nuvola super and 10% fresh spelt. Last time I used 10% rye. I liked the rye better - gave a bit of tang to the dough.

 
 
Alex

Outdoor Oven: Blackstone. Indoor Oven: Gaggenau.

Offline Yael

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Re: For the love of Pinsa
« Reply #1 on: May 21, 2020, 11:50:56 PM »
Very good!! I love this style too
“Learn the rules like a pro so you can break them like an artist” - Pablo Picasso

Offline amolapizza

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Re: For the love of Pinsa
« Reply #2 on: May 22, 2020, 08:15:07 AM »
I love it too!

Even though having taken a few courses in doing it, I seem to always end up making thin round pizza instead.  ??? ??? ???
Jack

Effeuno P134H (500C), Biscotto Fornace Saputo, Sunmix Sun6, Caputo Pizzeria, Caputo Saccorosso, Mutti Pelati.

Offline Yael

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Re: For the love of Pinsa
« Reply #3 on: May 22, 2020, 08:44:46 AM »
I love it too!

Even though having taken a few courses in doing it, I seem to always end up making thin round pizza instead.  ??? ??? ???

Yeah, like pizza in teglia, the sweet spot of the dough is critical: too much strength and it will be too thick; not enough strength and it will be thin in the middle and thick on the edges...!
“Learn the rules like a pro so you can break them like an artist” - Pablo Picasso

Offline amolapizza

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Re: For the love of Pinsa
« Reply #4 on: May 22, 2020, 09:17:54 AM »
I meant that even though I've learnt how to make thick pizza, I somehow always end up making thin Roman or Neapolitan pizza, and now I'm embarking on making the thin Classical Italian pizza.

I really have to start making some thick ones too, but being all alone it's a lot of bread to eat making all these pizza...
Jack

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Offline Yael

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Re: For the love of Pinsa
« Reply #5 on: May 22, 2020, 09:59:37 AM »
I meant that even though I've learnt how to make thick pizza, I somehow always end up making thin Roman or Neapolitan pizza, and now I'm embarking on making the thin Classical Italian pizza.

I really have to start making some thick ones too, but being all alone it's a lot of bread to eat making all these pizza...

Haha ok, I hesitated about writing something like "it's because you're doing too much romana thin pizza", but I went for a more serious message instead  ;D
“Learn the rules like a pro so you can break them like an artist” - Pablo Picasso

Offline Rolls

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Re: For the love of Pinsa
« Reply #6 on: May 22, 2020, 10:14:11 AM »
Biga
500g strong flour
300g water
5g dry yeast (kind of thinking this should be 3g dry yeast for next time)

Is it possible the 5g were supposed to be compressed yeast, as that would amount to the traditional 1% CY used in biga?
The pinse look very good indeed.


Rolls
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Offline DoouBall

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For the love of Pinsa
« Reply #7 on: May 22, 2020, 11:12:45 AM »
Is it possible the 5g were supposed to be compressed yeast, as that would amount to the traditional 1% CY used in biga?
The pinse look very good indeed.


Rolls

Yes, I'm pretty sure when Dario gave me the recipe, he was thinking of compressed yeast. I will use 3g dry next time and see how it goes (MasterBiga recommends 60% dry yeast compared to fresh for the biga portion of the dough).

For me, the hardest part of this style is stretching the dough balls into the pinsa shape. I understand that the technique is to pin down the left and right edges first so the air can't escape. Then go through the middle. I find that I have a tendency to overdo it here, forgetting that when you lift the result to put it onto the peel, it tends to stretch quite a bit more by itself. This is what I'll be working on going forward.

For those who have made Pinsa, what are your favorite topping combinations? My favorites so far are:

1)Amatriciana - Bacon or Pancetta, Tomato Sauce (herbs and garlic not traditional, but add a nice flavor). I'd use Guanciale...if I could find it.
2)Apple Pancetta - Apples, Pancetta, Smoked Mozzarella, Parmesan, Black Pepper
3)Pepper and Salami - Sauteed Yellow and Red Bell Peppers, Thin sliced calabrese salami, fresh mozzarella, hand crushed tomatoes.

I typically pre-cook any watery toppings and strain or cook the tomato sauce because I have noticed that there isn't enough time for final Pinsa bake to eliminate moisture in the ingredients, and the moisture tends to pool in the middle of pizza if not pre-cooked.

Here’s a pic of my Amatriciana pinsa
« Last Edit: May 22, 2020, 11:24:13 AM by DoouBall »
Alex

Outdoor Oven: Blackstone. Indoor Oven: Gaggenau.

Offline amolapizza

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Re: For the love of Pinsa
« Reply #8 on: May 22, 2020, 11:25:46 AM »
Shaping and moving to the peel without losing too much air and elongating too much are my greatest challenges too :)  I've never made Pinsa, only alla Pala, but it looks to be the same.

Where do you get the flour mix from?  I think I've read that you can make a mix yourself with wheat flour mixed with soy and rice flour.
Jack

Effeuno P134H (500C), Biscotto Fornace Saputo, Sunmix Sun6, Caputo Pizzeria, Caputo Saccorosso, Mutti Pelati.

Offline DoouBall

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Re: For the love of Pinsa
« Reply #9 on: May 22, 2020, 11:54:28 AM »
Shaping and moving to the peel without losing too much air and elongating too much are my greatest challenges too :)  I've never made Pinsa, only alla Pala, but it looks to be the same.

Where do you get the flour mix from?  I think I've read that you can make a mix yourself with wheat flour mixed with soy and rice flour.

There are a couple differences between Pinsa and alla Pala, the main ones are 1)Pinsa is always small (180-250g dough balls), and Pala can be both small or quite large. 2)Pinsa is typically made with a flour mix of wheat, soy, rice, and dry sourdough starter. Sometimes spelt is added as well. Pala typically uses just wheat flour.

I can't buy proper Pinsa flour here, so I have played around with various mixes including:

1)87% Caputo Nuvola Super, 10% stone ground rice flour
2)90% Caputo Nuvola Super, 10% sifted stone ground rye flour
3)90% Caputo Nuvola Super, 10% sifted stone ground spelt flour
4)90% Central Milling High Mountain, 10% semola

So far, I like the 1) and 2) the best, but my wife likes 3) a lot too since she loves spelt flour. I've also experimented with adding 3% dry sourdough powder and 5% activated sourdough starter and both add a bit of extra flavor. Even when I add the sourdough or sourdough powder, I keep the commercial yeast constant because it is needed for the final oven spring after such a long time in the fridge. I have not tried adding soy flour because I learned from an interview with the Pinsa flour inventor that his soy flour is specially treated for this formulation, so I'm assuming regular off the shelf soy flour will not work, and might taste funky.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2020, 12:00:32 PM by DoouBall »
Alex

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Offline Pizza_Not_War

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Re: For the love of Pinsa
« Reply #10 on: May 22, 2020, 12:01:16 PM »
Looks delicious. But how much different is it than a dressed focaccia?

Offline amolapizza

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Re: For the love of Pinsa
« Reply #11 on: May 22, 2020, 12:20:23 PM »
Ah interesting, I'll have to read up on Pinsa some day.  I thought it more or less was something like the AVPN, you have to pay them and then buy their special flour mix to be able to sell Pinsa..

I didn't know that they are always made small, interesting!

FWIW, we made some teglia/pala with biga and a flour mix of 00, soy, and rice flour at the Confraternity's convention last year, and we might have done so at the courses but I can't remember.  What I remember from the convention was that it was a very nice 80% dough and that the result was very pleasing.  AFAIK, it was just normal soy flour, nothing special and I can't remember that anyone complained about a funky taste..! I'd say it's at the very least worth to buy a small packet just to try!  Though I can't remember how much of each was used.  Maybe 80% 00, 15% rice, and 5% soy, something like that.

The Italians have banged into my head that the fundamental difference between teglia/pala and focaccia is that the focaccia rises in the pan and thus gets very small round alveoli, while teglia/pala rises in a ball and then gets extended just before it goes into the oven.  It tends to have bigger alveoli and a much more open crumb structure.



Jack

Effeuno P134H (500C), Biscotto Fornace Saputo, Sunmix Sun6, Caputo Pizzeria, Caputo Saccorosso, Mutti Pelati.

Offline DoouBall

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Re: For the love of Pinsa
« Reply #12 on: May 22, 2020, 03:20:18 PM »
The Italians have banged into my head that the fundamental difference between teglia/pala and focaccia is that the focaccia rises in the pan and thus gets very small round alveoli, while teglia/pala rises in a ball and then gets extended just before it goes into the oven.  It tends to have bigger alveoli and a much more open crumb structure.

Yes, what Jack said right there. Focaccia is shaped and given a rise in the pan before being baked. This results in a light fluffy highly regular internal structure with lots of small holes. Pizza in Teglia and Pizza in Pala are shaped and baked immediately after shaping which keeps the big bubbles intact.

Another big difference is that Focaccia and Sicilian pizza are baked in a pan, often with lots of oil, they can get an almost fried texture on the bottom. After they sit around for a while, they have a tendency to taste soggy and/or oily.

Pizza in Pala / Pinsa Romana are baked directly on the stone - often parbaked and then baked a second time as I did. There is no oil used on the bottom, so the bottom of the Pinsa beccomes incredibly crisp, like the crunch of a freshly toasted crust of an artisan loaf of bread. They also don't get soggy, even if they sit around for a while.

Jack, Dario Scopelliti shared with me what he believes is the official Pinsa clone percentage, and I think it's exactly what you suggested:

800g strong white flour
150g rice flour
50g soy flour
« Last Edit: May 22, 2020, 03:26:47 PM by DoouBall »
Alex

Outdoor Oven: Blackstone. Indoor Oven: Gaggenau.

Offline amolapizza

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Re: For the love of Pinsa
« Reply #13 on: May 22, 2020, 03:24:32 PM »
Roman Pizza in Teglia is also normally cooked in the pan without any oil.  The dough might or might not contain some.
Jack

Effeuno P134H (500C), Biscotto Fornace Saputo, Sunmix Sun6, Caputo Pizzeria, Caputo Saccorosso, Mutti Pelati.

Offline amolapizza

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Re: For the love of Pinsa
« Reply #14 on: May 22, 2020, 03:26:51 PM »
Jack, Dario Scopelliti shared with me what he believes is the official Pinsa clone percentage, and I think it's exactly what you said:

800g strong white flour
150g rice flour
50g soy flour

Cool, I might give that a go someday, I do have some rice and soy flour that I bought in the freezer.  I'm happy that I seem to have remembered it correctly! :)
Jack

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Offline amolapizza

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Re: For the love of Pinsa
« Reply #15 on: May 22, 2020, 03:27:41 PM »
BTW, did you buy the saccorosso and do you like it?
Jack

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Offline DoouBall

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Re: For the love of Pinsa
« Reply #16 on: May 22, 2020, 03:51:22 PM »
BTW, did you buy the saccorosso and do you like it?

I haven't bought it because I ended up being able to purchase my favorite local flour - Central Milling Artisan Baker's Craft. It's very nice for bread. I also bought more of Caputo Nuvola Super because that's what I use the most for Pinsa. I remember in the past using Caputo Chef's flour (the small bag with 1000g sold in stores), and if I'm not mistaken, that is the same thing as Saccorosso. I once used it for Pizza in Teglia and I liked the result a lot. I also tried it for Pizza Napoletana, and I thought it was too chewy for that purpose. I think Caputo Pizzeria is better for that.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2020, 03:53:37 PM by DoouBall »
Alex

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Offline jsaras

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For the love of Pinsa
« Reply #17 on: May 22, 2020, 04:59:24 PM »
This is the recipe I found online a while back, though I’ve not tried it yet: https://www.silviocicchi.com/pizzachef/impasto-pizza-tipo-pinsa-romana/?lang=en

Does anyone have a better translation for “grip”
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Offline DoouBall

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Re: For the love of Pinsa
« Reply #18 on: May 22, 2020, 05:17:54 PM »
This is the recipe I found online a while back, though I’ve not tried it yet: https://www.silviocicchi.com/pizzachef/impasto-pizza-tipo-pinsa-romana/?lang=en

Does anyone have a better translation for “grip”

Thanks for sharing, jsaras! "grip" is just a mistake of Google Translate when trying to translate the word Pinsa to English. If you turn off the auto-translation by removing the /?lang=en at the end of the URL, the heading for the article is "IMPASTO PIZZA TIPO PINSA ROMANA", so Google Translate is replacing Pinsa with grip.

Grip, in Italian is Presa, which I guess seems close enough to Google. Lol.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2020, 05:27:32 PM by DoouBall »
Alex

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Offline texmex

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Re: For the love of Pinsa
« Reply #19 on: May 22, 2020, 05:44:26 PM »
pinsa or pince is to pinch, to clamp, to grip, to tweeze, It is probably about the style of pinching of the dough.
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