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Author Topic: Tommy's Pizza (Columbus OH) - Any recipe ideas  (Read 190430 times)

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Offline tedcholl

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Re: Tommy's Pizza (Columbus OH) - Any recipe ideas
« Reply #460 on: June 05, 2019, 03:54:11 PM »
I had not noticed and thanks for posting!   I was hoping they would carry this but having not yet tried it I'm disappointed that they aren't carrying the original as well.

Offline bobgraff

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Re: Tommy's Pizza (Columbus OH) - Any recipe ideas
« Reply #461 on: July 14, 2019, 04:10:09 PM »
I tried out these Jersey Fresh crushed tomatoes recently.  Similar consistency to what Tommy's uses and excellent flavor.  They may unseat Stanislaus as my go-to pizza sauce tomato.  $2.99 at Whole Foods.
Bob

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Offline spacelooper

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Re: Tommy's Pizza (Columbus OH) - Any recipe ideas
« Reply #462 on: July 27, 2019, 07:45:31 AM »
Those Tomatoes are from Frankie Avalon's sister.... hence the name Avallone. I was curious how they were.

Offline bobgraff

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Re: Tommy's Pizza (Columbus OH) - Any recipe ideas
« Reply #463 on: July 27, 2019, 08:02:59 AM »
I really like them.  I mixed up a sauce of 2 cups Avallone and 1 cup Stanislaus Full Red puree earlier this week.  Arguably the best pizza sauce I've ever made.
Bob

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Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Tommy's Pizza (Columbus OH) - Any recipe ideas
« Reply #464 on: July 28, 2019, 12:14:08 AM »
She don't look like Frankie. 😆
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Offline Mad_Ernie

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Re: Tommy's Pizza (Columbus OH) - Any recipe ideas
« Reply #465 on: August 26, 2019, 09:16:52 AM »
Results I had a couple weeks ago with my tweaked version of an Aimless Ryan recipe of Tommy's Pizza.  Tasted pretty darn good.
I used KAAP flour.

Mad Ernie’s variation of Tommy’s recipe for one 15” pizza, 0.09” thickness, 11% residue:

Flour (100%):       326.69 g  |  11.52 oz | 0.72 lbs
Water (44%):       143.74 g  |  5.07 oz | 0.32 lbs
IDY (1.5%):       4.9 g | 0.17 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.63 tsp | 0.54 tbsp
Salt (1.5%):       4.9 g | 0.17 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.02 tsp | 0.34 tbsp
Sugar (1.2%):       3.92 g | 0.14 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.98 tsp | 0.33 tbsp
Shortening (5%):    16.33 g | 0.58 oz | 0.04 lbs | 4.09 tsp | 1.36 tbsp
Total (153.2%):   500.48 g | 17.65 oz | 1.1 lbs | TF = 0.0999
Let them eat pizza.

Offline invertedisdead

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Re: Tommy's Pizza (Columbus OH) - Any recipe ideas
« Reply #466 on: August 26, 2019, 10:00:49 AM »
Results I had a couple weeks ago with my tweaked version of an Aimless Ryan recipe of Tommy's Pizza.  Tasted pretty darn good.
I used KAAP flour.

Mad Ernie’s variation of Tommy’s recipe for one 15” pizza, 0.09” thickness, 11% residue:

Flour (100%):       326.69 g  |  11.52 oz | 0.72 lbs
Water (44%):       143.74 g  |  5.07 oz | 0.32 lbs
IDY (1.5%):       4.9 g | 0.17 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.63 tsp | 0.54 tbsp
Salt (1.5%):       4.9 g | 0.17 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.02 tsp | 0.34 tbsp
Sugar (1.2%):       3.92 g | 0.14 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.98 tsp | 0.33 tbsp
Shortening (5%):    16.33 g | 0.58 oz | 0.04 lbs | 4.09 tsp | 1.36 tbsp
Total (153.2%):   500.48 g | 17.65 oz | 1.1 lbs | TF = 0.0999

Nice one Ernie!
the proof is in the pizza

Offline bobgraff

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Re: Tommy's Pizza (Columbus OH) - Any recipe ideas
« Reply #467 on: August 26, 2019, 10:03:23 PM »
Nice pizza Ernie!  Do you mind sharing the time and temperature of your bake?
Bob

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Offline Mad_Ernie

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Re: Tommy's Pizza (Columbus OH) - Any recipe ideas
« Reply #468 on: August 26, 2019, 10:17:02 PM »
Nice pizza Ernie!  Do you mind sharing the time and temperature of your bake?

I use my 2stone device on my Weber gas grill.  Oven temperature is about 550-600 degrees based on the lid thermometer; I am guessing the stone temperature is 700+ based on old infra-fed gun readings I did many years ago.  Cook time was sometime around 6 minutes.

-ME
Let them eat pizza.

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Tommy's Pizza (Columbus OH) - Any recipe ideas
« Reply #469 on: August 26, 2019, 10:22:17 PM »



   That there is damn proper Mad.... Excellent pizza dude!!   :chef:


That S&M side is whispering to me....💰
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Offline bobgraff

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Re: Tommy's Pizza (Columbus OH) - Any recipe ideas
« Reply #470 on: February 17, 2020, 08:31:47 AM »
Just read on the "Pizza Connoisseurs of Columbus" Facebook group that Weilands Market in Clintonviile is selling Ezzo pepperoni @ retail.

FYI to you Columbus locals out there!

Bob

"I learn each day what I need to know to do tomorrow’s work." - Arnold Toynbee

Offline Yeller

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Re: Tommy's Pizza (Columbus OH) - Any recipe ideas
« Reply #471 on: April 12, 2020, 03:31:51 PM »
Hey Ryan or anyone in CMH...get over to a Papa Joe's either in Blacklick or off Sawmill in Dublin and see if anyone can replicate  this cracker crust. TIA..I think it's franchised out of Pickerington.

Offline Chicago Bob

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Re: Tommy's Pizza (Columbus OH) - Any recipe ideas
« Reply #472 on: April 14, 2020, 10:10:13 PM »
Hey Ryan or anyone in CMH...get over to a Papa Joe's either in Blacklick or off Sawmill in Dublin and see if anyone can replicate  this cracker crust. TIA..I think it's franchised out of Pickerington.
you can do it man!!   :chef:
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Offline Piesearcher

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Re: Tommy's Pizza (Columbus OH) - Any recipe ideas
« Reply #473 on: May 10, 2020, 10:08:27 AM »
Thanks all for your help with creating a good cracker crust!

Offline tedcholl

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Re: Tommy's Pizza (Columbus OH) - Any recipe ideas
« Reply #474 on: February 28, 2021, 01:10:02 PM »
After using the same recipe now for several years, and being very happy with it,  I got the itch to do some experimenting again.  I also noticed that Aimless Ryan's last pizza post was 2 years ago, Reply #454 and no one had posted if they had tried it so I decided to give it a try.  I've been following him for several years and his recipes formed the basis for the recipes I've used.   While he hasn't posted in 2 years I see he has at least connected to this forum in the last week so I hope he can see this and realize there are people continuing to benefit and be influenced by his efforts.

Background - I ate Tommy's pizza as a youngster and later as a student at Ohio State.  I haven't been at a Tommy's now for a long time as I have lived away from Columbus for decades but I always missed that style of pizza as I moved around the country and was never able to find anything similar until I found Ryan's blogs and this forum and started making them myself.  As I began preparing for my experiments I reread the majority of the Tommy's pizza related posts and blogs.  There is quite a bit of helpful information on the actual ingredients and process that Tommy's uses and I wanted to try reproduce that pizza as much as possible.  I especially appreciate the efforts made by Floridian, 333Meg, and bobgraff.  I also found useful some links in this forum to people who shared some details of how Tommy's makes their pizza from people who reported to have worked at Tommy's.

I made 3, 14" pizzas for this experiment, all using a thickness factor of 0.08.  One was my normal recipe dough:

KABF
45% Water
1.5% ADY
1.0% Sugar
1.0% Table Salt
2% Shortening

The other 2 pizzas were made using Ryan's recipe with a few adjustments which I will comment on:

Ryan's recipe
100% bread flour or high gluten flour
48-50% water - I used 48%
2% IDY - I used 1.5% ADY
1% salt
2% oil
2% sugar or malt syrup - I used sugar

I did not use any bench flour and did not dock any of the 3 pizzas.

What I did for the 2 pizzas:
50/50 Blend of KABF and KA Hi Gluten  (I wanted to match the unbromated, unbleached, malted, and 13.6% flour that Tommy's uses)  I whisked together the 2.
48% Water - 91F.  I did add 1 tbsp of water to allow my Kitchenaid mixer with dough hook to incorporate the last remaining flour.
1.5% ADY - Ryan's recipe was for a more immediate use of the dough for pizza while I wanted to allow the dough to sit in the fridge and continue to develop so I used a lower % and what I've been using.  I left my dough in the fridge 2 days after a 10 hr bulk ferment at room temp with 2 punchdown's before dividing the dough into 2 balls and placing in plastic containers before putting into the fridge. 
1.0% salt - (per an anonymous post on Ryan's blog by someone who claims to have worked at Tommy's, they do not use sugar or salt in their dough)
2% oil  - I used Olive oil
2% sugar - I wanted to use the barley malt as that is what Tommy's is said to use but I wasn't able to get some in time, I will try using it the next time.

I mixed this dough for a total of 5 minutes in the Kitchenaid with dough hook. The final dough was a little drier than my normal dough and was slightly sticky. 

When I began to make the crusts I did so with the intent of working the dough as little as possible. One change from my normal routine was to allow the dough to warm to room temp before sheeting/rolling which helped and something I will continue to do in the future.
I bought a manual sheeter a number of years ago but stopped using it after I couldn't discern a benefit from rolling out dough and then folding and rerolling (and sometimes getting a tough/chewy crust).  As I wanted to follow Ryan's recipe I did use it for this experiment.  It is difficult to get a round crust of the right size with this manual sheeter and I don't like to trim it as to me that adds a variable in the thickness/taste of the finished product.  I sheeted the crust 4 or 5 times, each time reducing the spacing between the rollers, and then used a rolling pin and hand stretched to shape it into more of a round shape the size of the pan.  I placed the crust on the perforated American Metalcraft pans mentioned by Ryan.  I covered the crust with a sheet of parchment paper to help prevent them from drying out and then put them in the fridge for about 2 hours before making them into pizzas.   I've had better luck getting the bubbles in the crust in the past by cooking a cold crust in the oven.



Pizza #1 process
Crust - this one was made using 8 layers of dough - done by dividing the dough into 2 balls, rolling each out, folding, combining the 2 and then rerolling.
7.5 oz of sauce.  I used my standard Contadina crushed Roma with Basil (28 oz can) although I will try in the future the Dei Fratelli tomatoes that are closer to the Star Cross brand used by Tommy's.  I'm of the opinion that it won't make much of a difference in the taste.  Tommy's is reported to add only salt, pepper, and garlic powder to their sauce so I added 1/2 tsp of each to my 28 oz of sauce.   
After spreading the sauce on the dough, Tommy's sprinkles a blend of oregano, basil, and thyme on top of the sauce prior to cheesing.   I made a mixture of 3 tsp oregano, 2 tsp of basil, and 1/2 tsp thyme, crushed them in a mortar and pestle, put them in a spice shaker container, and shook them on the sauce.  I ended up liking the ratios I used.
I then added 8 oz of freshly shredded smoked Provolone.  Tommy's uses a smoked Provolone as well.  There is alot of variation in the Provolone you can buy, some much better for pizza than others.  I liked the one I used, Mezza Luna purchased in the specialty cheese section of my local HEB grocery store.  It shredded up light and airy and was not greasy when cooked.  Always interesting how when cooked it loses the smoky taste it has uncooked.  I also added some shredded parmesan on the cheese side.
I normally make 1/2 pepperoni and 1/2 cheese only pizza which I did this time as well.  I put 3.75 oz of pepperoni on 1 side.  I did microwave the pepperoni for 1 minute between paper towels to remove some of the grease, to reduce the pepperoni from shrinking so much in the oven, and to result in a more crisp pepperoni on the final product.  I used the Ezzo GiAntonio 38 mm Supreme Cup & Char pepperoni purchased from Pennmac.com - same brand as Tommy's but I don't believe they use the Cup & Char version. 
Finally, I sprinkled a powdered Pecorino and Romano cheese on top as Tommy's does.   I used Boar's Head brand.
This pizza was cooked in the pan on top of a 554F stone (preheated for over 1 hour in a 550F oven) for 7 minutes and then removed from the pan and cooked another 3 minutes directly on the stone.  I did this as the top was cooking faster than the crust and some of the pepperoni was getting overly charred.  It is reported that  Tommy's cooks in conveyor ovens and then in some cases or by customer request will transfer the pizza to an old deck oven for further cooking.
Upon removing the pizza I lightly sprinkled garlic powder on the pizza as Tommy's does.
Pizza #1 Comments and Observations
This pizza was the most chewy of the 3, possibly from overworking the dough?  It was also the least cooked of the 3 on the bottom - see first of the two underside of crust photos.   It was blistered but wasn't very browned.  It did not form any crust bubbles as it was cooking that needed to be popped and was not very laminated despite being the only 1 that I made using the layered dough approach. 
It had a great flavor and you could distinguish the flavors of the individual components.  I really like the smoked provolone I used.  As I mentioned, it has been a long time since I last ate a Tommy's Pizza so it is difficult for me to say how similar this was.  It didn't transform me back in time to when I used to eat Tommy's but this is a recipe I want to develop further as I believe it has promise. All of the family had a similar reaction to this one,  It started with thinking this wasn't so good which I believe was influenced by it tasting different than the recipe I've been using for a long time, followed by an increasing interest and appreciation for the taste and in the end saying this had the best flavor of the 3.

Pizza #2 Process
Same crust recipe as #1 but I did not layer the dough on this one.   I sheeted it 5 passes then rolled it a little to shape it and hand stretched it to fit the pan.   
Sauced and spiced the same as #1
I used Boar's Head aged, not smoked provolone.  9 oz instead of 8 oz.
Same pepperoni but I didn't microwave for 1 minute before using.
I cooked this one in the pan on top of a 3/8" thick steel plate at 554F for 9 minutes and then 2 minutes direct on the steel.
Pizza #2 Comments and Observations
Pizza crust browned nicely and had a nice crunch. See second of 2 undercrust photos.  I got a few crust bubbles I needed to pop.  Boar's Head cheese has too much fat and gives you a greasier pizza.  The pepperoni also had more grease by not microwaving in advance.  Did not get the nice separation of flavors nor the same level of flavor from this pizza which I believe was due to the grease.

Pizza #3 Pizza - The recipe I've been using.
I was able to get this one to size with 4 passes in the sheeter and a little hand stretching.  The least dough handling of the 3.  I did not layer the dough
Same sauce with pepper, salt, and garlic powder same as the other 2 but I sprinkled the King Arthur Pizza spice I normally use on top of the sauce.  This spice mix contains onion, garlic, basil, oregano, red pepper flakes, and salt.
9 oz of shredded smoked Mezza Luna provolone
1 minute microwaved pepperoni
Sprinkled some KA Pizza spice on top as I normally do
Powdered Pecorino and Romano cheese sprinkled on top
Cooked directly on 562F steel plate, no pan, for 7 minutes.  I normally cook this on parchment paper on steel for 9 minutes.  Used Semolina flour of the peel to launch onto the steel. 
Sprinkled garlic powder on top of cooked pizza as the other 2.
Pizza #3 Comments and Observations
Had the most crust bubbles of the 3.  Crust was blistered and nicely browned.  Crust seemed softer - not chewy but not crunchy - in between the other 2.
The most spicy of the 3 due to the KA Pizza mix with red pepper. 

Next Steps
Find a better method of mixing water and flour as my normal method regularly doesn't pick up and incorporate all the final flour requiring adding a tbsp of water at the end.  I think I need to alternate adding water and flour gradually.
Try the recipe using Dei Fratelli tomatoes
Try the recipe using 2% Barley Malt and no salt in the dough as Tommy's does.  I had in the past tried making dough with no salt but didn't like the taste as much buy I think it can be done when instead adding salt to the sauce.
Don't try to layer the dough - in the past and in this case it is alot more work and it's never shown me positive results with the recipes I've used.
Continue to warm dough up before rolling it.  Definitely makes it easier to roll and not overwork it.
Give the dough my normal 3 days in the fridge - seems to give it the best flavor profile
Try a 45% and a 50% hydration.  I would like to eliminate the stickiness of this new recipe as it makes it hard to roll as it sticks too much to the surface when rolling and I'd prefer to not use bench flour.
Try some other oil - I didn't see any issues with the Olive oil but would like to try other oils.  I'm also not yet convinced that oil is better than shortening but want to further explore this.
Continue to explore cooking in a pan vs direct on steel or stone.  It does seem to have an impact on the taste that I want to better understand.
Whatever becomes my final recipe I need to have a process like my current one that is easier to execute.   I don't have room for 3 pizza skins on pans in my fridge normally and I don't like having to remove the pizza from the pan several minutes into the cooking.  I would also like to go back to using only a rolling pin and eliminate the stickiness of the dough without using bench flour or trimming the dough.

I was exhausted at the end of this and ate more pizza than I normally do.  I really appreciate any questions, comments, and or suggestions / recommendations to this post.  Definitely helps to learn from this great community of pizza fanatics!
« Last Edit: February 28, 2021, 01:42:56 PM by tedcholl »

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Offline bobgraff

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Re: Tommy's Pizza (Columbus OH) - Any recipe ideas
« Reply #475 on: March 01, 2021, 09:15:52 AM »
I think the "micro" bubbles in the crust are a side effect of how Tommy's preps their crusts for the day, and I'm not convinced they are a good thing.  I recall you had previously suggested is that these bubble occur when one sheets/rolls out a skin and stores it in the refrigerator for some time.  My guess is that their workflow is to sheet a certain number of skins for a given shift and store them in their cooler until needed.  I have observed in both my pizzas and Tommy's that the amount of those bubbles correlates to the degree of crust toughness. 

Regarding oil/shortening, I had read a post (on Facebook?) from a former Tommy's employee that claimed that Tommy's uses "Butcher Boy Shortening".  I have not tried it myself as I have not figured out where to order it in less than 35 pound increments.

Good info on the provolone.  My experience with it is that it oils excessively, so I will have to keep an eye out for the Mezza Luna brand that you mentioned.

Thanks for sharing Ted - I always appreciate your insightful posts.

Edit: Butcher Boy Liquid Shortening
« Last Edit: March 01, 2021, 10:29:07 PM by bobgraff »
Bob

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Offline tedcholl

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Re: Tommy's Pizza (Columbus OH) - Any recipe ideas
« Reply #476 on: March 01, 2021, 09:31:31 AM »
Thanks for the reply and insights bobgraff.  Interesting information on the shortening,  I think it is the only ingredient in Tommy's pizza that I haven't ever seen identified either from dumpster diving or via posts from previous employees.   If you happen to come across the shortening post I'd love to see it. 

You've experimented with alot of different oils in your pizza's,  do you have a favorite type?  Have you seen much difference in the finished pizza based on the oil you used?  Thanks!

Added -  I looked at the Liquid Shortening you mentioned and per the Nutritional Info label it is 100% Soybean Oil which can be purchased via Amazon and I'm sure other places in smaller container sizes.  I ordered some, thanks Bob!

Finally, Mezzaluna Smoked Provolone is available from my local Whole Foods grocery so that may be a way for you to get some.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2021, 03:32:31 PM by tedcholl »

Offline bobgraff

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Re: Tommy's Pizza (Columbus OH) - Any recipe ideas
« Reply #477 on: March 01, 2021, 10:06:44 PM »
Thanks for the reply and insights bobgraff.  Interesting information on the shortening,  I think it is the only ingredient in Tommy's pizza that I haven't ever seen identified either from dumpster diving or via posts from previous employees.   If you happen to come across the shortening post I'd love to see it. 

You've experimented with alot of different oils in your pizza's,  do you have a favorite type?  Have you seen much difference in the finished pizza based on the oil you used?  Thanks!

Added -  I looked at the Liquid Shortening you mentioned and per the Nutritional Info label it is 100% Soybean Oil which can be purchased via Amazon and I'm sure other places in smaller container sizes.  I ordered some, thanks Bob!

Finally, Mezzaluna Smoked Provolone is available from my local Whole Foods grocery so that may be a way for you to get some.

I can't for the life of me find that post, but I did save the quote:  "They use liquid malt, butcher boy shortening, salt and red star yeast. I worked there."

My oil of choice is sunflower these days.  I tried it based on a recommendation in another thread here and decided that I liked the flavor.

I'll keep an eye out for Mezzaluna the next time I'm in Whole Foods.  Thanks again for the tip!
Bob

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Offline quietdesperation

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Re: Tommy's Pizza (Columbus OH) - Any recipe ideas
« Reply #478 on: March 01, 2021, 10:39:45 PM »
I check aimless Ryan's profile from time to time, I do think he reads these posts and hope he posts again.
jeff

Offline tedcholl

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Re: Tommy's Pizza (Columbus OH) - Any recipe ideas
« Reply #479 on: March 03, 2021, 11:01:35 AM »
Bob

I noticed your edit to the Butcher Boy Shortening reference, eliminating 'liquid' so I searched again and I see that Butcher Boy makes a number of different shortenings with different oils, not sure which they might use.  Thinking I might stay with with Crisco sticks shortening I've been using for a long time instead of trying oil.

Also, your quote says they use salt in the dough which contradicts a post from Ryans Pizza blog that says, "I worked at Tommy's for years.. There's no salt or sugar in the dough. Its bakers syrup - dark.  I used to make and roll dough every morning there.."   

This could be an error or a difference in recipes at different stores as there is some evidence that not all the locations follow the exact same recipe, or a change made at some point of time.   Anyway, I plan to try a no salt in the dough recipe on my next attempt.  I still think it might work if I add salt to the sauce which reportedly Tommy's does.

At Whole Foods the smoked provolone is in the specialty cheese section.  Hope you can find and try it.
« Last Edit: March 03, 2021, 08:31:44 PM by tedcholl »

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