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  • #141 by kori on 17 Nov 2021
  • Have you checked beer brewing supply stores? Pure 100% diastatic malt is available in a well stocked shop. Briess as well as some other companies sell it. Breadtopia here in the USA just repacks it as diastatic malt in smaller quantities. Has a high 200 or so L value.

    I have called 3 local home brew supply stores and checked on line as well, my findings were the same as what Randy is saying, they dont seem to carry diastatic.

    Funny you mentioned Breadtopia cause I'm ordering something from them and there's no extra shipping cost to add on 2 8oz bags of DM @ $4.95ea, so I guess I'll be getting some to play with!
  • #142 by RHawthorne on 17 Nov 2021
  • I have called 3 local home brew supply stores and checked on line as well, my findings were the same as what Randy is saying, they dont seem to carry diastatic.

    Funny you mentioned Breadtopia cause I'm ordering something from them and there's no extra shipping cost to add on 2 8oz bags of DM @ $4.95ea, so I guess I'll be getting some to play with!
    Yeah, diastatic malt extract is not used in homebrewing. Homebrewers who do extract brewing use malt extract specifically because they don't (or can't due to a vareity of reasons) do all-grain brewing. In the process of making malt extract, the enzymes present in the barley (or wheat) grains are exhausted, and are no longer in a usable state in the finished malt extract, and don't need to be. Diastatic malt extract has had enzymes added back in. Homebrewers who do extract (or partial mash) brewing either use enough malted grains to get the desired enzymatic activity going to get the necessary malt sugars, and may use a little amylase extract added straight to the brewing water if they feel it's needed. But the diastatic variety simply has no place in the process; or at least it would be a really expensive way to do it, and not really necessary if done properly.
  • #143 by Robenco15 on 20 Nov 2021
  • So Iíve had Mod Pizza since KA and Letters sent it out a month or so ago.

    Iíve enjoyed it a ton. The dough recipes have all produced some pretty fantastic results. I skimmed the previous posts for the most part here and obviously some have their issues with Nathan, but strictly speaking about the books, Iím incredibly happy with them and have been learning a lot, even after making strictly Neapolitan pizzas for the past 2 years. As an avid home cook, they are perfect for me. The Artisan dough may be my favorite of everything Iíve done. Made my first 16Ē NY pizza using their dough too and it couldnít have been easier or more enjoyable. Iíll post some pictures of some pizzas Iíve made, all made in an Ooni Koda 16.

    If thereís one takeaway on pizza I have between here and the eGullet forum, pizza is a topic people have A LOT of opinions on. I know this post sounds like a paid advertisement or something, itís obviously not. I just wanted to share my opinions on the books. I enjoyed Mod Pizza so much Iím going to get Mod Bread for xmas.
  • #144 by Bill/SFNM on 20 Nov 2021
  • I enjoyed Mod Pizza so much Iím going to get Mod Bread for xmas.

    IMO, there is a vast difference between the quality of the bread books and the pizza books in almost every way. I'll sell you my bread books, but I can't recommend them. PM me if you're interested.
  • #145 by Robenco15 on 20 Nov 2021
  • IMO, there is a vast difference between the quality of the bread books and the pizza books in almost every way. I'll sell you my bread books, but I can't recommend them. PM me if you're interested.

    Could you elaborate on these vast differences?
  • #146 by DoouBall on 20 Nov 2021
  • May I ask why you say to cf no longer then 48hrs.

    Main reason is that the sugars tend to get consumed by the yeasts and this results in a pale(r) corncicione without excellent browning. For Neapolitan style pizza it can result in a very pale crust with lots of black spots, if youíre into that kind of thing. I dinít care for the pale crust + black spots thing, but itís a personal preference.

    Robenco15, those are some excellent looking pizzas. Glad youíre enjoying the books. I might check them out too if one of my local libraries ever get a copy.
  • #147 by RHawthorne on 20 Nov 2021
  • So Iíve had Mod Pizza since KA and Letters sent it out a month or so ago.

    Iíve enjoyed it a ton. The dough recipes have all produced some pretty fantastic results. I skimmed the previous posts for the most part here and obviously some have their issues with Nathan, but strictly speaking about the books, Iím incredibly happy with them and have been learning a lot, even after making strictly Neapolitan pizzas for the past 2 years. As an avid home cook, they are perfect for me. The Artisan dough may be my favorite of everything Iíve done. Made my first 16Ē NY pizza using their dough too and it couldnít have been easier or more enjoyable. Iíll post some pictures of some pizzas Iíve made.

    If thereís one takeaway on pizza I have between here and the eGullet forum, pizza is a topic people have A LOT of opinions on. I know this post sounds like a paid advertisement or something, itís obviously not. I just wanted to share my opinions on the books. I enjoyed Mod Pizza so much Iím going to get Mod Bread for xmas.
    Very interesting effect with the rims on the pizzas in the top two photos. How are you getting those clear lines, with the outer areas darkier and crispier, and the inner areas softer? Are you scoring the rims or something? I've never seen anything quite like that.
  • #148 by Robenco15 on 20 Nov 2021
  • Very interesting effect with the rims on the pizzas in the top two photos. How are you getting those clear lines, with the outer areas darkier and crispier, and the inner areas softer? Are you scoring the rims or something? I've never seen anything quite like that.

    So I believe thatís just me taking the sauce closer to the edge. When the crust puffs up, it brings some sauce with it, thereby keeping it wet/moist in the oven on the inside rim and then the outer crisps up.

    All of those were made with an Ooni Koda 16 btw. Should have said that I guess. Those Neapolitans were made with Caputo Nuvola.
  • #149 by Bill/SFNM on 20 Nov 2021
  • Could you elaborate on these vast differences?

    This could be a long one: but let me start out with some brief points:

    1. Editing
    The pizza book is concise and well-organized, while the bread one is repetitive and disorganized as if the goal was to pad the content to reach the desired page count. Minor topics are covered in great detail, while important ones (like sourdough) are glossed over in the bread book

    2. Photos
    The photos in the pizza book are breathtaking; many of the photos in the bread book are boring and add little, as if they are padding the page count.

    3. Content
    Bread has been an integral part of our culture since it was discovered that soaked, fermented grains could be cooked to sustain us and contribute to our success as a species. Tens of thousands of years have gone into developing the ingredients, grain varieties, growing, harvesting, milling technologies, baking, packaging, distribution .....etc. There is relatively new under the sun when it comes to baking bread. Much of the content in the bread book has been extensively researched elsewhere, and much of it is well-known or of trivial importance to bread enthusiasts. There are precious few "modernist" techniques in the book that result in a better outcome.

    I'm still absorbing the content of the pizza book. Even though the authors are the same, the topic is very different (please shoot me now if this devolves into a "pizza is not bread" debate.) with countless ideas for improving my pizzas. Today is "toppings" day: I'm making Genovese Pizza inspired by Pietro Parisi (il Cuoco Contadino) with French onion sauce and braised short ribs. Also making a pressure-caramelized mushroom sauce for a different pizza. This is great fun! Maybe I'll have time to post photos.
  • #150 by RHawthorne on 20 Nov 2021
  • So I believe thatís just me taking the sauce closer to the edge. When the crust puffs up, it brings some sauce with it, thereby keeping it wet/moist in the oven on the inside rim and then the outer crisps up.

    All of those were made with an Ooni Koda 16 btw. Should have said that I guess. Those Neapolitans were made with Caputo Nuvola.
    I'll be baking some pizzas in my Ooni Pro, with dough made with 65% Nuvola/30% durum/5% rye, in less than an hour. I like the Nuvola better than any "00" type of flour I've ever used. That's interesting about the rim. Those lines look so clean.
  • #151 by Robenco15 on 20 Nov 2021
  • This could be a long one: but let me start out with some brief points:

    1. Editing
    The pizza book is concise and well-organized, while the bread one is repetitive and disorganized as if the goal was to pad the content to reach the desired page count. Minor topics are covered in great detail, while important ones (like sourdough) are glossed over in the bread book

    2. Photos
    The photos in the pizza book are breathtaking; many of the photos in the bread book are boring and add little, as if they are padding the page count.

    3. Content
    Bread has been an integral part of our culture since it was discovered that soaked, fermented grains could be cooked to sustain us and contribute to our success as a species. Tens of thousands of years have gone into developing the ingredients, grain varieties, growing, harvesting, milling technologies, baking, packaging, distribution .....etc. There is relatively new under the sun when it comes to baking bread. Much of the content in the bread book has been extensively researched elsewhere, and much of it is well-known or of trivial importance to bread enthusiasts. There are precious few "modernist" techniques in the book that result in a better outcome.

    I'm still absorbing the content of the pizza book. Even though the authors are the same, the topic is very different (please shoot me now if this devolves into a "pizza is not bread" debate.) with countless ideas for improving my pizzas. Today is "toppings" day: I'm making Genovese Pizza inspired by Pietro Parisi (il Cuoco Contadino) with French onion sauce and braised short ribs. Also making a pressure-caramelized mushroom sauce for a different pizza. This is great fun! Maybe I'll have time to post photos.

    Thanks so much! I think Iím definitely going to get Mod Bread even with everything youíve said. Appreciate the reply!

    And please post pictures or your pizzas! They sound INCREDIBLE!
  • #152 by Bill/SFNM on 20 Nov 2021
  • Here is a quick snap of the Parisi Genovese (sorry for the shallow depth of focus): French onion sauce, braised brisket point (recipe called for short rib, but I had a nice brisket point in the freezer.) Beef cooked sous vide because braising at high-altitude is problematic. The crust was from a sourdough prepared by a friend. The combination was perfect. Other similar pizzas which were topped with cheese, mushroom sauce, etc. weren't as good as this simple pizza with just two toppings.  The pressure caramelized mushroom sauce was silky and delicious, but really didn't belong in a 900F oven. I'm thinking of using the leftovers for a savory crepe filling. The French onion sauce is a winner!
  • #153 by RHawthorne on 20 Nov 2021
  • Here is a quick snap of the Parisi Genovese (sorry for the shallow depth of focus): French onion sauce, braised brisket point (recipe called for short rib, but I had a nice brisket point in the freezer.) Beef cooked sous vide because braising at high-altitude is problematic. The crust was from a sourdough prepared by a friend. The combination was perfect. Other similar pizzas which were topped with cheese, mushroom sauce, etc. weren't as good as this simple pizza with just two toppings.  The pressure caramelized mushroom sauce was silky and delicious, but really didn't belong in a 900F oven. I'm thinking of using the leftovers for a savory crepe filling. The French onion sauce is a winner!
    By any chance, were there any ideas from the Modernist Pizza book that were incorporated into this bake?
  • #154 by Bill/SFNM on 20 Nov 2021
  • By any chance, were there any ideas from the Modernist Pizza book that were incorporated into this bake?
    Of course; that is why I posted here. The entire Genovese pizza recipe from Parisi is in the book. The book calls for its "artisan dough", but I used the excellent sourdough a friend brought over. The recipes for the French onion sauce and the braised short ribs that are part of the Genovese pizza are from the book. Also the pressure-caramelized mushroom sauce which was used in another pizza is from the book. I didn't include a photo of it because I really didn't think it was something I want to use again in Neapolitan-style pizza. Maybe on a pan pizza or a savory crepe. 
  • #155 by RHawthorne on 20 Nov 2021
  • Of course; that is why I posted here. The entire Genovese pizza recipe from Parisi is in the book. The book calls for its "artisan dough", but I used the excellent sourdough a friend brought over. The recipes for the French onion sauce and the braised short ribs that are part of the Genovese pizza are from the book. Also the pressure-caramelized mushroom sauce which was used in another pizza is from the book. I didn't include a photo of it because I really didn't think it was something I want to use again in Neapolitan-style pizza. Maybe on a pan pizza or a savory crepe.
    Now I feel like an idiot. For some reason, I was thinking I was looking at the 'post a pic of your pie' thread. Anyway, I've had the idea for a long time to do a French onion sauced pizza and incorporate some beef bone marrow somehow. I've never heard of anybody using beef bone marrow in a pizza, and I think it could work well, but maybe not with the French onion sauce. Those two ingredients together might be a bit too much. I also can see how either of those elements might work best without any kind of cheese, or maybe just a very light topping. I was thinking that the French onion sauce might be well complimented with some sort of bread crumb topping, probably post-bake. Your post has got me revisiting and reformulating these ideas.
  • #156 by Bill/SFNM on 20 Nov 2021
  • Now I feel like an idiot. For some reason, I was thinking I was looking at the 'post a pic of your pie' thread. Anyway, I've had the idea for a long time to do a French onion sauced pizza and incorporate some beef bone marrow somehow. I've never heard of anybody using beef bone marrow in a pizza, and I think it could work well, but maybe not with the French onion sauce. Those two ingredients together might be a bit too much. I also can see how either of those elements might work best without any kind of cheese, or maybe just a very light topping. I was thinking that the French onion sauce might be well complimented with some sort of bread crumb topping, probably post-bake. Your post has got me revisiting and reformulating these ideas.

    Somewhere on some forum in the distant past I posted about a pizza with bordelaise sauce. I used to have easy access to marrow without the bone. Maybe something I should revisit, too.
  • #157 by RHawthorne on 21 Nov 2021
  • Somewhere on some forum in the distant past I posted about a pizza with bordelaise sauce. I used to have easy access to marrow without the bone. Maybe something I should revisit, too.
    I've never actually sourced bone marrow from anywhere, or even had it. It's just something that sounds good to me, and I think I've got at least some idea of what it should taste like. I would imagine any butcher shop should be able to provide at least the bones, but marrow without the bone? I don't know.
  • #158 by ptix on 21 Nov 2021
  • As I understand it, there is a hardcover recipe book and a duplicate spiral softcover version - I would be interested in buying the spiral from someone here who ordered the set. 
  • #159 by Robenco15 on 21 Nov 2021
  • As I understand it, there is a hardcover recipe book and a duplicate spiral softcover version - I would be interested in buying the spiral from someone here who ordered the set.

    The Kitchen Manual is what youíre looking for. Check Ebay and Amazon. I was able to get the Modernist Cuisine Kitchen Manual last year. Would be surprised if the pizza showed uo so soon. Canít even find Mod Bread right now.
  • #160 by hotsawce on 22 Nov 2021
  • Looks like more bread than pizza, but to each his own.

    Very interesting effect with the rims on the pizzas in the top two photos. How are you getting those clear lines, with the outer areas darkier and crispier, and the inner areas softer? Are you scoring the rims or something? I've never seen anything quite like that.
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