It’s 90+ degrees in our shop?!

[vitopiesclt]

We operate a carry-out only shop in SC - it’s 90-100 degrees 3-4 months out of the year. Our shop which is 600 sq ft is 90+ degrees on the nights we’re open. We are well accustomed to working in the heat as our pizza truck that we’ve operated for 9 years doesn’t have A/C however we hoped to have our shop as a relief to this problem. We lease our shop space and don’t want to spend anymore money as we just opened last year and spent enough already! It’s an old building with no insulation in the walls. We have put in new ceiling tiles laid new insulation on top of the tiles. Last summer the landlord installed a new 2.5 ton HVAC (with air handler on high) and we had a grease & heat hood system installed last fall. We have a deck Blodgett oven and no other cooking equipment. Not expecting it to be 70 degrees but it’s 90+ on a hot summer evening and employees and customers are complaining. Today it got up to 93 degrees! What else can we do?

[02ebz06]

I would thing it would be the landlords responsibility to provide a safe/healthy environment for you to run your business.

[waltertore]

We are in the same boat here in Reno Nv, minus humidity but get forest fires.    Our landlord is responsible for the HVAC and they put a new one in but it doesn't cool once above  80 degrees outside and once the ovens start making pies- 83 outside right now but no humidity or fires.  We have a swamp cooler in the back but can't use during fires.   They got a new HVAC company figuring out how to fix it.  We wear masks for COVID and between the heat of the oven, and the fires, which were at toxic levels all last summer, it is tough.  We run 2 blodgett 1000 ovens with lots of BTU's and a 40 year old hood with a fan.  It gets in 100's here and 90's near the ovens and I am 65 years old and the only one that makes pizza.  I get on my NJ summer mindset when I landscaped and lived in the 3rd floor of my childhood home with no A/C in the house. 

I have no advice but to get a competent HVAC engineer in.  Your cooler, prep fridges, proofer if you have one, all put off a lot of heat if not vented through the roof.  Our walk in is not vented through the roof.  We have a blodgett convection oven, upright fridge, prep rail, freezer, reach in fridge, and proofer as well.

[vitopiesclt]

We have Blodgett 1000s on our pizza truck. My grandfather and uncle has a truck with them as well and started the first Vito’s Pizza truck in the 90s before “food trucks” were a thing!!  This is my first time owning and operating a B&M shop.

Back to the A/C. Last year I hounded the landlord until they had it replaced because it was hot all summer without the ovens on or doors open. The new unit keeps it cool and temp where it should be but as soon as the ovens start preheating it skyrockets. Again I’m no stranger to the heat as our truck has reached 100+ temps while we served hundreds of customers all summer long but sure was expecting our shop to give some relief from running this business in the middle of these Carolina summers! Still working on a few minor tweaks such as shades for all the windows and possibly adjusting the a/c down blasters but other than that I’m out of ideas that may help enough to make a difference.

[waltertore]

We have Blodgett 1000s on our pizza truck. My grandfather and uncle has a truck with them as well and started the first Vito’s Pizza truck in the 90s before “food trucks” were a thing!!  This is my first time owning and operating a B&M shop.

Back to the A/C. Last year I hounded the landlord until they had it replaced because it was hot all summer without the ovens on or doors open. The new unit keeps it cool and temp where it should be but as soon as the ovens start preheating it skyrockets. Again I’m no stranger to the heat as our truck has reached 100+ temps while we served hundreds of customers all summer long but sure was expecting our shop to give some relief from running this business in the middle of these Carolina summers! Still working on a few minor tweaks such as shades for all the windows and possibly adjusting the a/c down blasters but other than that I’m out of ideas that may help enough to make a difference.

Congrats on having your own shop!  Ours is 1,200 sqft and the HVAC guys told us it would cost 60k to keep it cool at all temps.  The landlord cheaped out and now they are trying to figure out how to deal with.  Ours freezes up when over 90 and like you, once the ovens open the temps skyrocket.  I think the only way you are going to fix it is to have a highly skilled HVAC engineer assess the entire space includings HVAC stuff.  I imagine with your temps and humidity it must take a well designed system to cool you right.  I know how stressful this stuff is.  Sorry you have to deal with it.  At least here humidity levels are in the single digits to under 20% all summer. 

[waltertore]

Norma told me about this thing.  I am using it and it helps a lot around the oven heat.

https://www.kohls.com/product/prd-5087774/arctic-air-freedom.jsp?skuid=70201634&ci_mcc=ci&utm_campaign=PERSONAL%20CARE&utm_medium=CSE&utm_source=bing&CID=shopping20&utm_campaignid=401561977&utm_adgroupid=1235851302938522&gclid=ee6eef3940ba12d14a638d92b37948fe&gclsrc=3p.ds&msclkid=ee6eef3940ba12d14a638d92b37948fe

[foreplease]

I would thing it would be the landlords responsibility to provide a safe/healthy environment for you to run your business.

I spent 30+ years as a commercial, residential, and agricultural landlord and I have to say “not really.” It’s the landlord’s responsibility to provide whatever the lease calls for. Typically, in a commercial property triple-net lease, the tenant can have whatever they want, but they can expect to pay for it (and leave it behind when they vacate). I told a long term tenant from a financial services firm one time, when he was talking crazy, “We can come in here every Tuesday and paint this place a different color if you want, but you’re going to pay for it.”


Now, I agree if the OP rented a place with a working AC unit that no longer does the job, it may be the landlord’s responsibility to repair or replace it or it could be the tenant’s responsibility. Depends on the terms the parties agreed to in the lease. If it was built for office or retail space and multiple pizza ovens are now running - there is a gap there that should have been addressed before now. The lack of insulation is a bad sign, though, in terms of how this place was built and has been let out.

[vitopiesclt]

Appreciate the insight! From our experience so far and from our initial requests of the landlord I’m pretty positive they are not willing to do much of anything about our issue. We’ve been waiting months for them to fix our front door. That being said the building was built in 1970s and all around not in the best condition. They’ve thrown some money on it one building at a time. Our space was an old office building that we converted into a pizza carryout. Against my better judgment I proceeded with the lease due to all the “right” things about this space including and most of all the price point for our area.

Here is one of the “before” photos.

In your opinion do we have any bearings on getting the landlord to help do anything at this point?

[foreplease]

You or somebody did a nice job with the conversion. It does not sound to me like you are going to get this resolved by the landlord any time soon, or on any schedule you find convenient. Trying to do anything in court will be expensive and painfully slow. I don’t know the particulars of your arrangement but it sounds as if the landlord simply does not have the money to help you. Absent that, whether they would or not is anybody’s guess but my guess would be ‘not’. I’m sorry about it.

[scott r]

I have the same problem in one of my locations.   When my AC unit there finally kicked the bucket and it was time to get a new one I was so excited to up the BTU's.  It turns out that my existing ductwork could not handle a larger unit and I had to just buy a new version of what blew out.  My restaurant is still crazy hot on hot summer days. The new ductwork was VERY expensive and just not worth putting the money into. 

You could look into a mini-split system.  The costs have come down on those and they allow you to put AC where you need it without installing new ductwork.

[woodfiredandrew]

Just buy portable Ac unit. you can move it around.
we lost our AC unit on 2nd day we opened, we had 98 degrees in here back then, I gave 20% off to all customers who were dinning in. One older lady sat there and ate at 100 f . I volunteer to pack her food so she can take it home for free she refused and finished her food and gave us large tip.
Pizza Master's outside surface temp do not go above 100 f  and that is a game changer. 

[vitopiesclt]

We’d rather not invest more into a mini split with the chance of it not helping much considering the hood pulling out the cooled and warm air. Has anyone installed mini-split a/c and found it helpful?

[vitopiesclt]

Just buy portable Ac unit. you can move it around.
we lost our AC unit on 2nd day we opened, we had 98 degrees in here back then, I gave 20% off to all customers who were dinning in. One older lady sat there and ate at 100 f . I volunteer to pack her food so she can take it home for free she refused and finished her food and gave us large tip.
Pizza Master's outside surface temp do not go above 100 f  and that is a game changer.

We don’t have a window to vent the portable a/c…do you know of a type that doesn’t require the window vent?

[woodfiredandrew]

I don't,  but look it up.

[Pizza Shark]

If you can't cool the air to the temp you like you can always move air... and a lot of it.  Air King model 9230 is an absolute beast.  Not cheap but one of the few this size with a sealed motor that won't get gunked up and no belts to wear out.  I like floor models so when they get filthy you just wheel it outside and hose it down.  Keep a little Igloo box cooler filled with water & ice close by and a hand towel you can soak in it, wring out and wear around you neck.

[PizzaGarage]

What’s the CFM rating on the hood exhaust fan and does that match the requirements of the ovens?

There are 2 2x2 ceiling tiles one in front of the hood and one to the side- what are those - exhaust or AC output?

[Pizza Shark]

The entire idea of an "air conditioned" commercial line or kitchen or cooking area is an absolute fallacy if you ask me.  What's that saying?  If ya can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen"?  In my experience working in multiple food service establishments long ago the line and the kitchen is HOTTER THAN HELL.  Any attempt to pump A/C in there just gets sucked up in the hoods. 

One of the first restaurants I managed decades ago would hit 110 degrees almost every night.  How do I know that? Because there was a quick test thermometer on the line to check every dish to make sure it was fully cooked before it went out.  I well remember the day I pulled that thermometer that was registering 110 ambient and stuck it into the middle of what appeared to be a boiling hot lasagna plate after 2:30 in the high powered microwave, pulled and topped with sauce and cheese into the convection oven at 550 for 2 minutes more and when that thermometer hit the middle of that lasagna and DROPPED from 110 ambient to about 90... Did we all on the line every have a laugh over that!  Hotter on the line than this lasagna that has been nuked and convectioned! 

In my opinion... it's all about venting heat and bringing fresh air in and moving a lot of air with fans and such for those who work in that hot environment... and keeping that bucket of ice water with towels close by they could keep soaking and wrapping around their necks.   

[scott r]

We’d rather not invest more into a mini split with the chance of it not helping much considering the hood pulling out the cooled and warm air. Has anyone installed mini-split a/c and found it helpful?

Yes, I put one blowing right down onto the mouth of my oven and it helped tremendously.  Without it my employees dont want to work the wood burning oven, but with it there is no problem.

[vitopiesclt]

We now have 5 fans. It’s 95 degrees inside and 94 outside with heat index making it feel like 104. Fully understand heat for those in the kitchen is to be expected however our small 600 sq ft space is completely open to all staff and customers. It’s quite miserable for everyone. The mini split directly above our ovens may not make sense considering the hood will pull out cool air and even a fan blowing on it affects the cook time as they are not wood fired but stone deck ovens. Maybe worth a try…not sure though since it’s going to cost a lot to have someone come in and wire the electrical and finish installation. I haven’t found an effective solution yet.

[caymus]

One of the first restaurants I managed decades ago would hit 110 degrees almost every night. 

Did you worry about employees "sweating" on the food?