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Author Topic: Neapolitan dough issues  (Read 162 times)

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Offline Steevo124

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Neapolitan dough issues
« on: June 13, 2021, 11:02:11 AM »
Hello everyone. Iíve been experiencing an issue when it comes to balling my dough. I use Caputo Pizzeria 00 Blue for flour. Iím at 62-63% hydration. I dissolve fresh yeast in fridge temp water (holding back about 5% of the water) and add 50% of the flour. Then I mix in a Griletta spiral mixer for about two minutes, then add the remaining flour  and mix for another two minutes on slow speed. I then add the salt and mix for 5 minutes at medium speed. I then slowly add the remaining water and mix at medium to high speed for another 5 minutes or until dough is smooth. I give the dough a 10 min rest and mix again on high for 30 sec and the dough comes super smooth. I take the dough out, turn it into a bench, cover with a damp towel for 15 minutes, perform to
Or three gentle slap and folds and ball into a big ball (12 dough balls at 270). The dough is super smooth and when pressed the dough ball slowly springs back. The interior dough temp is usually about 25 deg C. Everything at this point seems to be going perfectly. I then put it into a 6qt container and let it bulk ferment for about 18 hours. I am using 0.9g of fresh yeast. When I take the dough out to ball, the dough is super sticky and weak. Very hard to ball. The balls never come out smooth and you can see tons of air bubbles and gluten (torn) strands. Does anyone know what is going on during the balling stage?  Iím at a loss. I usually then let them rise in balls for about 6 hours. Any ideas or suggestions are welcome. Thanks!! 
« Last Edit: June 13, 2021, 11:32:44 AM by Steevo124 »

Offline amolapizza

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Re: Neapolitan dough issues
« Reply #1 on: June 13, 2021, 01:49:23 PM »
I think you are over mixing it.  Neapolitan pizza doesn't need a lot of gluten development.

There are many ways of making a dough, my preferred method (with a Sun6 spiral mixer), is to add flour and salt to the bowl, then dissolve the yeast in the water, add it to the bowl and let the mixer run for 5 minutes at the lowest speed.  When I take it out it's kind of ugly looking, but I throw it in a tupperware and let it rest at RT for 1 hour.  When I come back to ball the dough, it makes really nice smooth balls.

Try it, maybe it helps with your problem.  Also drop the hydration a whee bit, around 60% is a good starting point.

Edit: If I use IDY I add directly to the bowl with the flour and salt.
Jack

Effeuno P134H (500C), Biscotto Fornace Saputo, Sunmix Sun6, Caputo Pizzeria, Caputo Saccorosso, Mutti Pelati.

Offline Ryan R

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Re: Neapolitan dough issues
« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2021, 08:47:08 PM »
Your workflow is very similar to mine. I also have the Famag Grilletta. I agree that you are overmixing. Aside from the speed, you aren't mixing too much longer than I do. The biggest difference I see is that I rarely go above medium speed. I would shave a few minutes off the total time, lower the speed and give it a shot. My results have been pretty consistent. (Same flour, Fresh yeast as well). Side note: I use 3% salt.
Ryan

Offline Steevo124

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Re: Neapolitan dough issues
« Reply #3 on: Yesterday at 06:47:04 AM »
Thanks for the advice everyone.  I actually gave the same advice to someone else about over mixing. I use to never go above 3-4 on the mixer but my dough wasnít coming out right. There is a video on YouTube with Vito Iacopelli (search Vito cold ferment) where he uses a spiral mixer and mixed on max speed for 20 minutes and the dough came out perfect. Guess that threw me off. I will try less mixing. Thanks!  I also use 3% salt.

Offline amolapizza

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Re: Neapolitan dough issues
« Reply #4 on: Yesterday at 07:44:45 AM »
If you recently got new flour then it could be that the flour is bad in some way.

Still all that mixing and then folding, I don't think that's right for Napoletana..

FWIW, I remember doing a course and working hard at making my dough smooth and beautiful for the bulk, then the teacher came by and pressed a finger into the dough, it sprung back pretty quickly.  He said bad, the indention shouldn't spring back much..
Jack

Effeuno P134H (500C), Biscotto Fornace Saputo, Sunmix Sun6, Caputo Pizzeria, Caputo Saccorosso, Mutti Pelati.

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Offline Steevo124

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Re: Neapolitan dough issues
« Reply #5 on: Yesterday at 11:19:38 PM »
If you recently got new flour then it could be that the flour is bad in some way.

Still all that mixing and then folding, I don't think that's right for Napoletana..

FWIW, I remember doing a course and working hard at making my dough smooth and beautiful for the bulk, then the teacher came by and pressed a finger into the dough, it sprung back pretty quickly.  He said bad, the indention shouldn't spring back much..

I do the finger test as well. Seems ok after I mix, it just gets very stuck and u manageable after the bulk ferment and just prior to balling. Never thought about the flour being bad. I buy my flour in 11lb re-packs so that could be an issue. Just purchased a 55lb bag. Weíll see how the next mix goes. Thanks again

Offline AntonioT

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Re: Neapolitan dough issues
« Reply #6 on: Today at 07:58:19 AM »
The first time I used my spiral mixer I also went with 20 mins of mixing, and the dough although super smooth was super weak. Tom was still with us at that point and advised me to just dump it all in and turn it on for go for 5-6 mins tops. Iím using a poolish preferment. I remember having to calculate the rpm of the hook and the bowl and compare it to the mixer that was being used for the 20 mins mix. That mixer was much slower than mine. The comparison was my mixer does in 5m45s what the other mixer took 20 mins.

Thanks for the advice everyone.  I actually gave the same advice to someone else about over mixing. I use to never go above 3-4 on the mixer but my dough wasnít coming out right. There is a video on YouTube with Vito Iacopelli (search Vito cold ferment) where he uses a spiral mixer and mixed on max speed for 20 minutes and the dough came out perfect. Guess that threw me off. I will try less mixing. Thanks!  I also use 3% salt.

Online scott r

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Re: Neapolitan dough issues
« Reply #7 on: Today at 08:24:54 AM »
Mixing time is all about hydration.   In the original post we are talking 62-63 percent hydration where you need a mixer set to slow and you can not mix too long in a spiral.   In Vito's video he is making a 75% hydration dough, and for that you need full speed for a long time in a spiral to build the same amount of strength into the dough.

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