A D V E R T I S E M E N T


Author Topic: Antimo Caputo 00 Red/Blue flour "copy cat alternatives" found/grown locally US?  (Read 621 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline 99.99%_Unix

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 6
  • Location: NYC
  • I Love Pizza!
Hello pizza nerds.

Have been making pizza and eating pizza for a long long time... there were some good times, bad times and "weird" times.

I got bored eating pizza found locally and its not that any different compared to home pizza.
Few pizzeria has superb pizza. Just don't live near em...

So over the decade of pizza making at home I have tried almost all brands of flours out there, bread flour, whole wheat flour, all purpose flour, organic flour and etc. Many different brands you can think of. The pizza never tastes (flavor) as good as to the pizzerias.
When it comes to flavor, it really has nothing to do with the oven as you'll see why soon.


Many YouTubers have no clue what they are talking about, followed their recipe and technique and the pizza still doesn't taste like the pizzerias.

So now I need to boost some "pizza IQ" if you know what I mean...

I usually go to this website called "Udemy.com" it's where you can learn new things of anything you can think of.
Thankfully "pizza" happened to be one of them that is available.

I followed the recipe and technique from a professional Italian pizza maker named "Gigio Attanasio" from Udemy course.

The recipe calls for imported Italian "Antimo Caputo" 00 Red and Blue flour bags. I was thinking this is waste of money but bought it to keep things "Authentic" and "consistent" with the course.

The pizza actually ended up like "WOW". The way the pizza dough stretches and forms is simply like butter magic with zero tearing of pocket holes. I use to work for "Dominos Pizza" for 3 years and was a manager over there and I know that their pizza doughs does not handle the way how the pizza dough handles from Gigio Attanasio's dough recipe.

The flavor of the pizza was the best homemade pizza I have ever eaten, it actually tastes better than most of the local pizzerias.
Pizza was so good that I would eat an entire 12" pizza all alone or a full 16" pizza in one day.
If I can easily obtain this "Antimo Caputo" flour, I would never buy pizza locally.
The Antimo Caputo 00 flour combination of red and blue makes literally the best NYC pizza I have ever eaten, the flavor of the thin crust is just ridiculously excellent. The guide was to make "Neapolitan Pizza" but I somehow ended up in making "NYC" style pizza lol  :-D

I started to realize you can make "pizzeria" grade pizza at home using the "right" flour. I believe the ingredients is more critical and important and should be first mastered before getting into the proper oven design and temps. My gas kitchen oven can provide 500F all day no problem for baking "great pizza". I use a thick 3/4" quality pizza stone, its been over 1 year and never cracked on me.

So my question is, I know it is somewhat silly but is it possible to find a copy cat or alternative to Antimo Caputo flour?
Few reasons why I ask is because it's hella expensive and hard to get.
My main source of getting this flour is from Amazon.
Amazon doesn't have the blue bag in 4.4 pounds as it did before.
The red bag costs $15 to $19 for 4.4 pounds.
The blue bag costs $32 for 11 pounds.

Please do not recommend the locally "alternative" flours such as "gold medal", "pillsbury", "king Arthur" or anything that is suited for "causal" baking. I have tried these flours over the years all in organic, non-organic, whole wheat and bread flour.
None of them never made pizzeria quality pizzas.

I would like recommendations that is specific with pizza, such as what the "pizzerias" use to make pizzas. I highly doubt pizzerias buys Antimo Caputo flour because they can never have a consistent business in using that stuff long term, it's wiser to use flour obtained locally.
I think it will be impossible to "replicate" the Antimo Caputo flour because it's most likely that the company "Antimo Caputo" is using a "particular" and "specific" "wheat berry" strain that can only be grow logically in the Italian lands and it is not best grown in the US (I hope I'm wrong)

Anyways thanks for any inputs. I live in NYC, USA.

Attached pics are some "homemade pizzas" I made few days ago.

First four Attached pics are the Antimo Caputo stuff.

The remaining four pics is a 50/50 mixture of an "Amazon" brand whole wheat flour and organic all purpose flour with some pure protein gluten I am trying out... nothing amazing as compared to the Antimo Caputo flours.

I would happily share the recipe I use for both the Antimo Caputo flour mixture and local branded flour mixture.

 :chef:
« Last Edit: January 28, 2022, 09:37:14 PM by 99.99%_Unix »

Online scott r

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5340
  • Age: 51
  • Location: Boston
  • I Love Pizzafreaks!
Please do not recommend the locally "alternative" flours such as "gold medal", "pillsbury", "king Arthur" or anything that is suited for "causal" baking. I have tried these flours over the years all in organic, non-organic, whole wheat and bread flour.
None of them never made pizzeria quality pizzas.

First off, your pizzas look really good!

But I have to say.... if you spend some time researching many of the very best pizza makers on this site, I think that they will tell you that caputo flour is good but not necissary for their best pizza, or even what they use. Many will actually say that they prefer USA flours (and some will say they prefer some of the specific ones you have named to any caputo flour or blend of caputo flours). 

We can probably get you Caputo flour at about 35 bucks for a 55lb bag locally... but before you go crazy spending all the money on caputo flour you need to match what you are doing in your dough making process with to a different flour.  This will take very subtle but meaningful adjustments. 

This might mean using the dough at a different time or very slightly adjusting the yeast level... maybe a touch more or less mixing, but before you change anything else.... make your dough with a non caputo flour feel like its the same hydration as your caputo flour when you go to stretch it.  Assuming fermentation amount is exactly the same, simply adjusting the hydration only, changing nothing else, the outcome might surprise you.  To do this make both doughs (BY WEIGHT!) with the same exact recipe to see if one is dryer (harder to pull out) than the other one.  if its harder to pull out add a little more water the next time.  Once matched up you might be very surprised.  If your problem then is ... the domestic flour browned too fast compared to the caputo flour, making me have to pull the pizza sooner causing it to be too floppy then....

This will only really effect how much your flour browns (it will brown less with this method), but you could also look for a domestic flour in the  all purpose to bread flour range that has no enzymes or malted barley flour listed on the bag. This is the main difference between caputo flour and good American flours.  It might take some time to find but its out there.  You will probably have better luck finding this stuff missing from the label on organic flour, but both organic and not exist without malted barley flour or enzymes.  Check grocery store house brands too.

Many here prefer a malted/enzyme enriched flour, so before you try looking for special domestic flours, first just try something like king Arther all purpose or bread flour again with the hydration matched.   Send lots of pics of your dough before you touch it, but as you are about to use it and we can help.   
« Last Edit: January 28, 2022, 11:06:41 PM by scott r »

Offline 99.99%_Unix

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 6
  • Location: NYC
  • I Love Pizza!
Hello Scott, thanks for the helpful reply and complement  :)

I do measure everything by weight. I have a professional scale that can measure up to 6 pounds with an accuracy resolution of 1/10th of a gram (.0g)  :D

Using many different flour brands found locally (from the supermarkets) and following the exact same gluten percentage and hydration as to the caputo recipe, I do tend to get now the same baked texture, browning, stretch and feel.

The only thing I am trying to improve is the flavor. For some reason all the pizza doughs I make which it's flour was obtained locally all taste the same. Very "wheat" or "flour" like flavor type. I have tried so many combination of things over the past 10 years, fermented in the fridge for days, fermented at room temperature, used sourdough starters and etc. The flavor never gets to the "wow" factor.

The caputo flour taste like pizzeria stuff, I have even used expired caputo flour and it still tastes like wonders. The flavor is just awesome.

I'll do some research in finding an alternative of caputo which can be found locally here in US.
Seems like there are other people who asked the same question and some have mentioned about using "GM's Neapolitan Flour", however a user have tried this "GM's Neapolitan Flour" and his taste buds says the caputo flour tastes better.  :o

Thank You for your advice.

Online scott r

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5340
  • Age: 51
  • Location: Boston
  • I Love Pizzafreaks!
I have caputo pizzeria at home right now along with King Arthur all purpose.  Its been a while since I have compared but I will do a comparison and see if maybe something has changed.

Online scott r

  • Supporting Member
  • *
  • Posts: 5340
  • Age: 51
  • Location: Boston
  • I Love Pizzafreaks!
https://belluccipizza.com
you should go here, they are using King Arthur all purpose.   I will say this, their head pizza chef who came up with all the recipes has left, so I am not sure of the quality now, but it might be surprising.

Also, Razza in Jersey city uses (around 80%) King Arthur all purpose and its a must hit pizzeria if you havent been.  They do mix in some other flour, but its mostly KAAP. 

Also, Last time I talked to them Mamas Too was using a blend of King Arthur all purpose and King Arthur sir Lancelot.   Its my favorite square slice ever. 

All these pizzerias are in NYC or within a quick drive if your ever near the city and have a car.

Im not sure who is using it locally to you, but Central milling 00 (made in USA) is considered better than Caputo flour by people with pizzerias that I trust because they make off the charts pizza.  Its actually a little more money than caputo, though.   

If you go to Chefs Warehouse in NY (and they are still doing cash and carry post covid like the used to) you can find central milling and caputo flours in massive 50-55lb bags for 40 bucks or under.  If they have stopped, I have noticed that caputo flour is now available from most of the businesses that sell to restaurants.  Maybe someone on here from you area knows of someone with caputo cash and carry if CW isn't doing it any more.
« Last Edit: January 29, 2022, 08:00:20 AM by scott r »

A D V E R T I S E M E N T


Offline 99.99%_Unix

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 6
  • Location: NYC
  • I Love Pizza!
Thank You for your reply Scott, super helpful.

I will get busy with your recommendations and will post back with results.  :chef:
« Last Edit: January 29, 2022, 01:05:40 AM by 99.99%_Unix »

Offline deb415611

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2701
  • Location: CT
a little bit away from NYC but if you are traveling through central CT --  Napoli Foods in Cheshire has Caputo Pizzeria and does cash & carry.   They are right off 84 exit 28   I just bought some a few weeks ago and think I paid $34
Deb

Offline Jon in Albany

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 3041
  • Location: Albany, NY
    • Jon In Albany Blog
Caputo products are imported by Orlando foods. I bet a quick call or email would point you to your closest point of sale.

http://orlandofoods.com/

edit: but the other flours and combinations would definitely be worth exploring.

Offline amolapizza

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 2551
  • Location: Luxembourg / Spain
  • If pizza is food for the gods, what are we..
Note, that I have no idea about US flours..

I concur with what Scott said above about matching hydration (and other things), that said my personal opinion is that Caputo is just a very tasty flour..  It's tastes better than the local flours I can get here in Luxembourg, and the dough is very nice to work with.  AFAIK, they source wheat from many sources, including the US.  They have a big laboratory and they keep testing and formulating a flour that is specifically for making thin crust pizza (the right dough properties).

I have no doubt that you can use other flours, but Caputo is right up there at the top for pizza flour (IMO).

It could also be that you'd be satisfied with only the blue or the red..  Like that you don't have to buy and store 2 different flours..
Jack

Effeuno P134H (500C), Biscotto Fornace Saputo, Sunmix Sun6, Caputo Pizzeria, Caputo Saccorosso, Mutti Pelati.

Offline rascali

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 252
  • Location: Michigan
  • I Love Pizza!
If the OP is watching, I think you might find that Je ne sais quoi you're looking for, in Scot's recommendation For Central Millings.

Their 00 organic reinforced is rather unique in it's flavor profile, very clean and nutty. Doesn't brown well, but there's ways around that. You can order smaller amounts directly, if you're in the mood to sample...

A D V E R T I S E M E N T