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Author Topic: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!  (Read 738487 times)

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Offline parallei

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #2880 on: March 20, 2019, 09:35:01 PM »
Joe,

Yes, use a 12" round pan and 1 lb. of dough.

Norma

So Norma is using a thickness factor (TF) of about 0.14oz/in2.  As Norma noted, the finished (baked) height of you pie will also depend on other variables.  Variables that come to mind include:  Proof time in the pan, dough hydration, oven temperature and amount of toppings added pre bake.

Offline norma427

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #2881 on: March 20, 2019, 09:49:29 PM »
So Norma is using a thickness factor (TF) of about 0.14oz/in2.  As Norma noted, the finished (baked) height of you pie will also depend on other variables.  Variables that come to mind include:  Proof time in the pan, dough hydration, oven temperature and amount of toppings added pre bake.

Thanks Paul!

Norma

Offline Joe1

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #2882 on: March 20, 2019, 10:12:13 PM »
Thank you Norma and Parallei! :)
Do you do a one time bake for this style pizza or do you do 2 step ? Thank you again Joe

Offline norma427

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #2883 on: March 21, 2019, 06:38:08 AM »
Thank you Norma and Parallei! :)
Do you do a one time bake for this style pizza or do you do 2 step ? Thank you again Joe

Joe1,

Only ever did a one time bake for this style of pizza.  At market the quickest method is used for the pizzas that are sold every week.  It is enough to wait for the dough to proof enough in the pan, which can take various amounts of time.  Sometimes the doughs are proofed in the pan in the heating cabinet at about 99 degrees F, and some are just left to proof at room temperatures.  That can vary a lot in the times the doughs are proofed enough.  Just have to watch and see when you think they are proofed enough.

Norma

Offline norma427

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #2884 on: March 21, 2019, 06:50:08 AM »
Thank you Norma and Parallei! :)
Do you do a one time bake for this style pizza or do you do 2 step ? Thank you again Joe

Joe1,

This is another thread of where some Detroit style doughs were used in another kind of pan.

https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=29378.0

Norma

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Offline Joe1

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #2885 on: March 21, 2019, 09:05:27 AM »
Thank you very much Norma ! :)

Offline Whisky

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #2886 on: March 21, 2019, 09:54:40 AM »
Yeah, thanks for the info guys....

So this is like a 3 hour dough, give or take? With that amount of yeast (.50%) and 70F room temp....

I know your procedure is different, Norma, for market, as you freeze the dough...But making this at home, suppose you would immediately push it out into the pan after mixing up the dough?

Offline norma427

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #2887 on: March 22, 2019, 06:55:07 AM »
Yeah, thanks for the info guys....

So this is like a 3 hour dough, give or take? With that amount of yeast (.50%) and 70F room temp....

I know your procedure is different, Norma, for market, as you freeze the dough...But making this at home, suppose you would immediately push it out into the pan after mixing up the dough?

Whisky,

Don't ever recall trying to make a Detroit style pizza in a 3 hour time frame and a room temperature ferment.  Maybe you could try to see if it would work.  The dough should be soft enough to push into the pan after mixing the dough though.

Norma

Offline Joe1

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #2888 on: March 30, 2019, 04:29:15 PM »
Norma,
 
When you use a 12 in pan , how much cheese do you usually use ? Or do you just eyeball it ? Was wondering if you ever weighed it out to see.. and also the sauce ? Iím seeing that itís very important to have good ratios cheese , sauce to dough .. I seem to always go too heavy on the cheese  ::)and maybe too light on sauce  :P sorry for all these questions last few days .. Iím learning a lot here itís great ! Thank you again ! :)

Offline norma427

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #2889 on: March 30, 2019, 10:56:31 PM »
Norma,
 
When you use a 12 in pan , how much cheese do you usually use ? Or do you just eyeball it ? Was wondering if you ever weighed it out to see.. and also the sauce ? Iím seeing that itís very important to have good ratios cheese , sauce to dough .. I seem to always go too heavy on the cheese  ::)and maybe too light on sauce  :P sorry for all these questions last few days .. Iím learning a lot here itís great ! Thank you again ! :)

Joe1,

I don't weigh the cheese/cheeses when making a 12Ē round pan pizza, but know the cheese is over 10 oz.  Usually spread the cheese at the edges first (a little heavier there), to make the cheese caramelize more during the bake, then add cheese all around the middle part (not a lot), then put the spiral of sauce on, then add a little more cheese.  Sauce just goes on in a spiral, like the regular NY style pies I make.  No weighing that either.  If you want me to take some photos, or take weights let me know. I can use a regular NY style dough to do the weights and photos.  For me this style of round pizza isn't as important to get the right amount of cheese and sauce.  Somehow it works ok with this style.  The sauce is fairly thick, but thin enough that it pours out of the Norpro.  https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000PSB5VU/?tag=pmak-20

To make this style of pizza taste better, do use some  Pecorino Romano over the sauce, before the last application of cheese.  Also now use some of this herb/garlic blend with other ingredients.  https://www.webstaurantstore.com/regal-herbs-garlic-blend-8-oz/10207335.html  That is sprinkled over the top before the bake.

I haven't been able to make any of these round 12Ē pizzas since Luis has gotten sick.  Either Luis or my granddaughter used to help me make doughs.  Now my daughter helps me to make doughs, but she isn't wild about helping every Sunday because she also has a full-time job and works overtime at her full-time job.  No frozen regular dough balls either.  We just make as many dough batches of regular round NY pizzas for each Tuesday now.  Customers are missing the 12Ē round pizzas and frozen dough balls.  I would make this dough myself and also the frozen dough balls to sell, but since my last operation am not allowed to lift more than 25 lbs.  Pulling all of that dough out of the mixer is too hard on where the hernias were repaired.  Am back to wearing a binder since I overdid it shoveling and snow blowing snow. 

Your questions are fine.  Glad you are learning a lot here on the forum!  ;D

Norma

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Offline Joe1

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #2890 on: March 30, 2019, 11:51:13 PM »
Norma,

Thanks so much ! :) thatís tough for you with that heavy dough donít want to get hurt .. better to lay off .. your curtomers will just have to wait  :) ;Dand a tough tough situation with Luis getting sick . My prayers are with you and family . I read he was sick in one of your previous posts . God Bless and prayers do work . 🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼 Iím a big big believer in prayer !

Thanks for all the tips ...that would be so cool if you could do that with your New York style dough . Weights with pics of sauce and cheese .and pizzas .. I think I read that you do 17 or 18 inch pizzas .. that would give me a good idea and then I can adjust to fit my home oven ..( maybe one day Iíll  open up a small shop thatís a dream of mine maybe 1 day ) :)do you cut them in 8 slices ? Just curious ? I see you use that large pizza cutter . Is that easier to use than the regular pizza cutter ? Again just curious .. and my last question on a regular day at the market how many pizzas do you make during the coarse of the day ? And do you sell more slices or whole pies ? Thanks

Offline norma427

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #2891 on: March 31, 2019, 09:02:31 AM »
Norma,

Thanks so much ! :) thatís tough for you with that heavy dough donít want to get hurt .. better to lay off .. your curtomers will just have to wait  :) ;Dand a tough tough situation with Luis getting sick . My prayers are with you and family . I read he was sick in one of your previous posts . God Bless and prayers do work . 🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼🙏🏼 Iím a big big believer in prayer !

Thanks for all the tips ...that would be so cool if you could do that with your New York style dough . Weights with pics of sauce and cheese .and pizzas .. I think I read that you do 17 or 18 inch pizzas .. that would give me a good idea and then I can adjust to fit my home oven ..( maybe one day Iíll  open up a small shop thatís a dream of mine maybe 1 day ) :)do you cut them in 8 slices ? Just curious ? I see you use that large pizza cutter . Is that easier to use than the regular pizza cutter ? Again just curious .. and my last question on a regular day at the market how many pizzas do you make during the coarse of the day ? And do you sell more slices or whole pies ? Thanks

Joe1,

Thanks for the prayers for Luis!

Will see if there is enough time to take photos and weights Tuesday.  The round regular pizzas are about 17Ē.  Hopefully someday you can open your own small pizzeria.  ;D Do cut the round NY style pizzas and the pan pizzas into 8 slices.  Yes, the rocker blade pizza is a lot easier to slice pizzas, when more pizzas are being made.  It can vary from week to week how many pizzas I can make, since I am the only one doing it.  Sell more slices than whole pies.  Whole pies usually have to be ordered the day before, but if there is time and not a lot of customers waiting we do some whole pizzas for some customers that just come up to order whole pies.  Could sell a lot more whole pizzas to customers that just stop by without ordering the day before, but that isn't usually possible.  Not sure how I will tolerate the heat of summer this year at market because it can get really hot, and working all day with only one bathroom break can make me really tired.  Steve is leaving in May because of the heat.  I sure will miss him and he is a great helper.  That is another thing about owning you own pizza place.  Good help is hard to find and being as small as I am comes with many obstacles.

Norma 

Offline Joe1

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #2892 on: March 31, 2019, 12:07:42 PM »
 Norma ,

Thanks for the help ! All good . Must be very hard and a lot of obstacles during the day and service ! But you are a true inspiration . That cutter is it American metal craft 10 in ?  And was curious if you still use the MAE/ November method with your sauce? I tried it it was great ! Do you like 6 in 1 or the saputio heavy sauce better ? I saw a can of the 6-1 before but never tried them . Joe

Offline norma427

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #2893 on: March 31, 2019, 09:10:35 PM »
Norma ,

Thanks for the help ! All good . Must be very hard and a lot of obstacles during the day and service ! But you are a true inspiration . That cutter is it American metal craft 10 in ?  And was curious if you still use the MAE/ November method with your sauce? I tried it it was great ! Do you like 6 in 1 or the saputio heavy sauce better ? I saw a can of the 6-1 before but never tried them . Joe

Joe1,

Your quite welcome.

There aren't a lot of obstacles during the day and service, but varying market temperatures do make things harder sometimes. Also trying to keep pizza trays and other things washed sometimes can be challenging.


Am not quite sure but think this 20Ē rocker cutter is what I use.

https://www.webstaurantstore.com/american-metalcraft-pkr20-20-double-nylon-handle-pizza-rocker-knife/124PKR20.html?utm_source=Google&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=GoogleShopping&gclid=Cj0KCQjwyoHlBRCNARIsAFjKJ6C9nQVtp235Aspkl-iDqATpYr9bh_lqckNwKuIecLMFmpG1bKpHqZUaAk5WEALw_wcB Think it was Peter that told me about them, but can't find that link right now.

Yes, still use November's MAE method to make part of the sauce, but don't use the same ingredients.  I like 6-in-1s but do like the Stanislaus Saporito Super Heavy Pizza Sauce with basil better.  Now add another Stanislaus product too. 

Norma

Offline Joe1

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #2894 on: March 31, 2019, 11:55:38 PM »
Thanks again Norma  :)

I can imagine the dough management to be very challenging .. getting the dough balls to rise and be manageable so you can make / sterech the pizzas ... each season must present a new challenge with the temps ..and I think you said that the summer is really hot in there at the market no AC ..you must have to put the dough balls in the fridge after they rise so they donít go too far and become harder to work with . Very interesting .... I really donít know how you do it  :) I saw a few of those video clips you posted before and it I see the space is very small .

Thanks for telling me which tomotes you like better using the MAE..and the cutter ..when you said you add other stantilus products ? Meaning to the saputio ? I add a lot of water to it .. itís so thick as you know . But interesting if you would add a different can of something then thin out ? Or am I off here ? That old sauce MAE recipe that I found on here tasted pretty good . I just couldnít find the Greek oregano . I used reglular oregano in its place . Do you keep some of the same ingredients as the other sauce recipe ? Just curious .. Iím just never completely satasfifed with my sauce . Or with my pizza too . ::) ::) My wife and daughters are my official taste testers .. my girls know every time I change the sauce  :o sometimes too sweet other times too acidic or too much garlic .. then the next I put no Garlic and they tell me itís needs more flavor !! ;D ;D ;D

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Offline norma427

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #2895 on: April 01, 2019, 08:20:40 AM »
Thanks again Norma  :)

I can imagine the dough management to be very challenging .. getting the dough balls to rise and be manageable so you can make / sterech the pizzas ... each season must present a new challenge with the temps ..and I think you said that the summer is really hot in there at the market no AC ..you must have to put the dough balls in the fridge after they rise so they donít go too far and become harder to work with . Very interesting .... I really donít know how you do it  :) I saw a few of those video clips you posted before and it I see the space is very small .

Thanks for telling me which tomotes you like better using the MAE..and the cutter ..when you said you add other stantilus products ? Meaning to the saputio ? I add a lot of water to it .. itís so thick as you know . But interesting if you would add a different can of something then thin out ? Or am I off here ? That old sauce MAE recipe that I found on here tasted pretty good . I just couldnít find the Greek oregano . I used reglular oregano in its place . Do you keep some of the same ingredients as the other sauce recipe ? Just curious .. Iím just never completely satasfifed with my sauce . Or with my pizza too . ::) ::) My wife and daughters are my official taste testers .. my girls know every time I change the sauce  :o sometimes too sweet other times too acidic or too much garlic .. then the next I put no Garlic and they tell me itís needs more flavor !! ;D ;D ;D

Joe1,

The dough management for these pan pizzas are actually easy, because they are just put in pans.  The proofing does matter though.  For the NY style pizzas it is a little more tricky to have the dough balls at the right fermentation during a whole day when it is hot.  I have put dough balls back into the prep fridge when they seem to become too far fermented and that does seem to make them more manageable. 

If you look at other members posts, you can see they also might add another sauce to a paste, or do different things to get the flavors that are wanted.  I fooled around for awhile with making a baked sauce for pan pizzas, and really liked the flavors that created, but in the end it was more work than I was willing to do each week for the pan pizzas.  This is that thread when using the Stanislaus Alta Cucina with basil, and also adding another sauce sometimes.  https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=45149.0 Stanislaus does encourage adding 2 sauces together.  You just have to find what you and your family prefer.  Stanislaus doesn't say to add water though to any of their sauce.  As you know the Saporito is very heavy.  I do add another Stanislaus product to the Saporito.  Steve my helper at market does use November's MAE method with 6-in-1s, but omits some of those ingredients.  It is a very tasty sauce.  I am like you in some ways.  Never satisfied with the pizzas. 

Norma

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #2896 on: April 01, 2019, 08:47:43 AM »
Norma,

Thanks again for the great tips ! I didnít know those things . I always just cut the heavy with water ALOT of water itís like paste .( as you know ) But you gave me an idea  ;)  I made a Detroit style dough yesterday  . Itís sleeping now in the fridge .  Iím going to apply some of the tips you gave me .  :)

Offline norma427

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #2897 on: April 01, 2019, 09:15:41 AM »
Norma,

Thanks again for the great tips ! I didnít know those things . I always just cut the heavy with water ALOT of water itís like paste .( as you know ) But you gave me an idea  ;)  I made a Detroit style dough yesterday  . Itís sleeping now in the fridge .  Iím going to apply some of the tips you gave me .  :)

Let us know how your Detroit style pizza turns out!   :)

Norma

Offline norma427

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #2898 on: April 01, 2019, 09:18:30 AM »
Norma,

Thanks again for the great tips ! I didnít know those things . I always just cut the heavy with water ALOT of water itís like paste .( as you know ) But you gave me an idea  ;)  I made a Detroit style dough yesterday  . Itís sleeping now in the fridge .  Iím going to apply some of the tips you gave me .  :)

Joe1,

One more thing to think about.  When making pizza sauce with ingredients and maybe using the MAE method, the sauce usually gets better tasting if left in the fridge overnight.

Norma

Offline Joe1

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Re: Two Billís pizza..dough and Carmelina Sauce..great!
« Reply #2899 on: April 01, 2019, 10:39:34 AM »
Norma,

Ok got it ! I will .. :) do you like to use oil in pan or butter? Or a mix ? Just curious . Thanks Joe

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