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Author Topic: Craig's NY Square  (Read 47656 times)

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Offline TXCraig1

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Craig's NY Square
« on: December 01, 2015, 08:54:15 PM »
This pizza was OK. I think I'm going to work on making a decent square. I want to get somewhere between Di Fara and Artichoke Basille's.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2015, 09:22:51 PM by TXCraig1 »
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Offline derricktung

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Re: Craig's NY Square
« Reply #1 on: December 01, 2015, 10:08:05 PM »
Looks like a helluva start!  I'd eat it!

Offline jeff v

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Re: Craig's NY Square
« Reply #2 on: December 01, 2015, 10:15:28 PM »
Nice. Is what you're describing grandma style?

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Craig's NY Square
« Reply #3 on: December 01, 2015, 10:19:36 PM »
Nice. Is what you're describing grandma style?

I don't know. If I google "grandma style pizza" the pictures that come up aren't really what I want to make. The look of the pie in the first post is pretty close - just a few things I want to tweak.
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Offline hotsawce

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Re: Craig's NY Square
« Reply #4 on: December 02, 2015, 01:20:52 AM »
When I had Artichoke recently, it was literally an inedible slice. I think you'd do best to use a good, typical NY dough recipe (62 to 63% hydration of which 2-3% is oil) and let the dough proof in an oiled 12 x 18 pan for a while. A couple hours I would think. Probably a thickness factor of 0.115 for a grandma pie..... you could also calculate a 0.075 thickness factor for a 20" round pie and use that same dough round in a 12 x 18" pan for a great grandma thickness factor. Pretty sure this is what Best Pizza does.

My favorite squares typically have fresh mozzarella on them, though under the sauce. I like how Prince and L&B do it with the sliced mozz, then a cooked sauce (in Prince's case) on top. Eliminates a par bake, keeps mozz from burning. Come up with a great cooked sauce (my favorite had no discernible garlic/marinara taste) and I think you're golden. 10 to 12 minutes in the pan, 2 minutes on the stone to crisp. Fresh basil and EVOO on the finish.

Keep us posted. I experimented extensively with this before doing Detroit style, though I'll end up with a hybrid of what I've described above and Detroit. There are elements of a great NY square that just can't be beat!

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Offline norcoscia

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Re: Craig's NY Square
« Reply #5 on: December 02, 2015, 06:31:09 AM »
This pizza was OK. I think I'm going to work on making a decent square. I want to get somewhere between Di Fara and Artichoke Basille's.

Looks great - wish I could turn into PAC-MAN and gobble a few of those up!!!!
Norm
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Offline mbrulato

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Re: Craig's NY Square
« Reply #6 on: December 02, 2015, 07:29:31 AM »
Craig,

FWIW, I've never eaten at either place, but I think what Lou said about the dough makes sense.  My brother-in-law used to own/operate a pizzeria/restaurant and he never made a separate dough for his Sicilian pizza.  He always used his NY dough in an oiled pan that proofed for a bit on top of his deck ovens.

Whatever you come up with, I'm sure it will be fantastic.  Please keep us posted.
Mary Ann

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Offline norma427

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Re: Craig's NY Square
« Reply #7 on: December 02, 2015, 08:16:33 AM »
Craig,

Looks like you are off to a great start!

I have been to Artichoke with you and the other members that went on that pizza crawl.  If I recall right the Artichoke pizza had somewhat of a salty good taste from the one cheese and a very crispy bottom crust.  The photos I posted start at Reply 234 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=17885.msg175810#msg175810  I wonder if they parbake first.  I never tasted Di Fara's square.  Which one did you like better Artichoke or Di Fara's?

Norma

Offline hotsawce

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Re: Craig's NY Square
« Reply #8 on: December 02, 2015, 12:18:15 PM »
By the way, if you want something close to DiFara, it was reported his square dough is 2 lbs, or about 907 grams. This is a TF in a 12 x 18" sheet tray of about 0.1485

Offline jonathan.copeland

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Re: Craig's NY Square
« Reply #9 on: December 02, 2015, 12:36:19 PM »
Love the look of the saucing and cheese. That's exactly what draws me to Sicilian/Grandma slices.

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Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Craig's NY Square
« Reply #10 on: December 02, 2015, 12:39:03 PM »
By the way, if you want something close to DiFara, it was reported his square dough is 2 lbs, or about 907 grams. This is a TF in a 12 x 18" sheet tray of about 0.1485

I had it all set in my mind to do TF=0.12 then I saw that Difara measurements chart and I moved it up to 0.15. For what I'm wanting, I think the number is between the two.
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Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Craig's NY Square
« Reply #11 on: December 02, 2015, 12:40:56 PM »
Love the look of the saucing and cheese. That's exactly what draws me to Sicilian/Grandma slices.

Thanks. I'm definitely targeting a well done pie. It's going to be pretty intense pizza. Using the sweet Scalfani tomatoes, I can balance quite a bit of browning. Much more like Artichoke and Difara than L&B.

Lou, what was bad about the Artichoke slice you had recently?
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, baker's yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
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Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Craig's NY Square
« Reply #12 on: December 02, 2015, 12:45:29 PM »
Also, for this, I'm only interested in direct method, relatively short fermentation. 5 hours max, and 3 is where I'm targeting.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, baker's yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
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Offline jonathan.copeland

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Re: Craig's NY Square
« Reply #13 on: December 02, 2015, 12:45:34 PM »
The one and only time I went to Artichokes was when I was living in NYC a few years ago. I got a slice and took a few bites. Was not impressed. Flipped it over and it was literally completely black on the bottom. No spotting, no, mottled coloring. No brown. It was burned to a crisp. It was quickly tossed in the garbage and I never went back.

DiFara Sicilian is better than the round pies in my opinion. Though I have only been twice.

When I was a cook at the Spotted Pig in the West Village, the restaurant would always order pizzas for us late night (as we were cooking until 2am and open until 4) from Bleecker Street Pizza. Their Sicilian also was far better than their round pies, and really is what drew me into the style.

Offline hotsawce

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Re: Craig's NY Square
« Reply #14 on: December 02, 2015, 01:47:28 PM »
The artichoke slice I had was like eating a slice of stale cake soaked in olive oil. It wasn't crisp. It wasn't even a little bit crunchy. It was like biting through a solid piece of crusty stale bread. And the toppings didn't taste super fresh, either...and honestly I thought the inside of that place looked pretty unclean as well.

Thanks. I'm definitely targeting a well done pie. It's going to be pretty intense pizza. Using the sweet Scalfani tomatoes, I can balance quite a bit of browning. Much more like Artichoke and Difara than L&B.

Lou, what was bad about the Artichoke slice you had recently?

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Offline jonathan.copeland

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Re: Craig's NY Square
« Reply #15 on: December 02, 2015, 02:24:20 PM »
Also, for this, I'm only interested in direct method, relatively short fermentation. 5 hours max, and 3 is where I'm targeting.

What is the benefit of a short fermentation other than logistics? I was just wondering because I saw something on one site about Stephen Lanzalotta at Micucci's also seemed to make his dough in 3-5 hours.

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Craig's NY Square
« Reply #16 on: December 02, 2015, 02:42:50 PM »
What is the benefit of a short fermentation other than logistics? I was just wondering because I saw something on one site about Stephen Lanzalotta at Micucci's also seemed to make his dough in 3-5 hours.

No other benefit. It's an experiment too - something I haven't done much of. I've had really good pizza made with 2-3 hour dough.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, baker's yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
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Offline jonathan.copeland

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Re: Craig's NY Square
« Reply #17 on: December 02, 2015, 04:16:02 PM »
No other benefit. It's an experiment too - something I haven't done much of. I've had really good pizza made with 2-3 hour dough.

That's what I thought. My dough that I am experimenting with is direct and I am stretching it out to about 8-10 hours fermentation. As much as I love extending the ferment and extracting flavor, I also really like working with dough that has been sitting out at room temp the whole time.

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Craig's NY Square
« Reply #18 on: December 02, 2015, 10:28:08 PM »
This crust was phenomenal - a bit hard top stretch the dough - but OMG - just crispy, tender, light as a feather, and really tasted good. My wife said it was my best pizza ever. 4 hours at 70F from first mix to bake. I got a bit crazy with the oil; lifting up the half-baked pie and pouring more under like Dom does, but I'm not sure I'd cut it back too much. It was bubbling around the edges like Difara.  I probably could have baked it for another 30 seconds.

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Water     62.0%
EVOO     3.0%
Salt        2.0%
L-DMP    2.0%
Sugar     1.0%
IDY        0.80%
« Last Edit: December 02, 2015, 10:30:27 PM by TXCraig1 »
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, baker's yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Craig's NY Square
« Reply #19 on: December 02, 2015, 10:45:56 PM »
Craig,

That certainly is a great looking pizza. Can you tell us the dough ball weight, the thickness factor you used this time, and the dimensions of your pan? And also the brand of low diastatic malt?

Thanks.

Peter

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