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Author Topic: Craig's NY Square  (Read 47659 times)

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Offline oliveview

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Re: Craig's NY Square
« Reply #40 on: December 09, 2015, 02:19:27 PM »
TXCraig1:

Really nice looking results! I think I might like to give that dough a shot. However, out here in CA, I don't believe we can purchase bromated flour products. Out of curiosity, is that going to be a noticeable difference if I substitute the usual AP or better-for-bread flour we have around here?

Cheers!

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Craig's NY Square
« Reply #41 on: December 09, 2015, 04:54:10 PM »
I think and decent BF would be just fine - or HG.
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Offline oliveview

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Re: Craig's NY Square
« Reply #42 on: December 09, 2015, 05:23:42 PM »
I think and decent BF would be just fine - or HG.

Thanks. I'm at a loss to know how the differences affect taste or texture. Again, I'm pretty sure we can't import bromated products into CA. But further than that, I have never found any high gluten type flour (like KASL) here in SoCal, either. Not sure why, but not a single market (and I've been to a million...) carry any of that. We only get basic Pillsbury, General Mills, and sometimes KA all-purpose, or KA bread.


Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Craig's NY Square
« Reply #43 on: December 09, 2015, 06:11:49 PM »
I'd be a little surprised if you can't bring it in to CA for personal use. I think you just can't sell it in the state.

If you ferment for more than 3-4 hours, you really don't need it at all, IMO.

Edit: typo
« Last Edit: December 09, 2015, 06:32:07 PM by TXCraig1 »
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, baker's yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
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Offline Bobino414

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Re: Craig's NY Square
« Reply #44 on: December 09, 2015, 06:24:41 PM »
Great looking pie

Did you par bake?  If so did you top the dough with oil or sauce?

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Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Craig's NY Square
« Reply #45 on: December 09, 2015, 06:25:29 PM »
Great looking pie

Did you par bake?  If so did you top the dough with oil or sauce?

Thanks. Yes, with sauce.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, baker's yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
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Offline oliveview

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Re: Craig's NY Square
« Reply #46 on: December 09, 2015, 07:18:50 PM »
I'd be a little surprised if you can't bring it in to CA for personal use. I think you just can't sell it in the state.

If you ferment for more than 3-4 hours, you really don't need it at all, IMO.

Edit: typo

Indeed. I wasn't trying to infer that we can't posses or use bromated grain products. Just that you can't buy it here. Bromide aside. Are the gluten differences worth concern between the plain KA bread flour I can find here, versus the KASL - which seems to be non-existent in SoCal (maybe it's bromated...)?

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Craig's NY Square
« Reply #47 on: December 09, 2015, 07:23:10 PM »
I'm generally not a fan of the very high gluten flours. This is the only style I've made with a 14%+ flour that I liked. I was about to throw the bag of AT away because I thought the NY style I was making with it was terrible - so tough. Plain KABF will work well. I'd certainly suggest making 5 or so batches and see what you can do with it before going out looking for some hard-to-find flour.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, baker's yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline oliveview

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Re: Craig's NY Square
« Reply #48 on: December 09, 2015, 07:35:37 PM »
I'm generally not a fan of the very high gluten flours. This is the only style I've made with a 14%+ flour that I liked. I was about to throw the bag of AT away because I thought the NY style I was making with it was terrible - so tough. Plain KABF will work well. I'd certainly suggest making 5 or so batches and see what you can do with it before going out looking for some hard-to-find flour.

Cool. Thanks. Very good to know. I've actually been using the KA bread for more than a year now, quite often, with generally excellent results for NY style dough. Any issues with those results, are strictly operator error. It was / is mostly idle curiosity about the higher gluten variants, being that I seemingly can't get my hands on such. Just curious whether I've been missing out - but it sounds like mostly not.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Craig's NY Square
« Reply #49 on: December 09, 2015, 07:46:17 PM »
Olive,

I recently addressed the issue of flours in California in response to some questions raised about flours in general by another member. The thread in which I addressed the California flours issue is at:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=38065.msg381038#msg381038

Maybe my response in Reply 4 can lead you to some of the possible sources of flour for you to use. Unfortunately, some of the flours are sold only on the commercial side to professionals and will not be found at the retail level. Or they may have to be ordered by mail, usually at fairly high prices once shipping charges are taken into account.

Peter

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Re: Craig's NY Square
« Reply #50 on: December 09, 2015, 08:07:22 PM »
Craig!
If you throw the AT bag away, throw it far and East please!  :-D   I'm mainly using GMFS now since I've got a nice big bag from RD. but seriously I wish I could find a 25 lb bag of AT...I like the stuff I've managed to snag from reluctant pizza shop owners..most of them throw me out,...Now, With 50 lbs each of GMFS and WW in the basement, another 50 lb bag could result in my untimely ejection from the premises. ;)

Offline oliveview

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Re: Craig's NY Square
« Reply #51 on: December 09, 2015, 09:32:22 PM »
Olive,

I recently addressed the issue of flours in California in response to some questions raised about flours in general by another member. The thread in which I addressed the California flours issue is at:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=38065.msg381038#msg381038

Maybe my response in Reply 4 can lead you to some of the possible sources of flour for you to use. Unfortunately, some of the flours are sold only on the commercial side to professionals and will not be found at the retail level. Or they may have to be ordered by mail, usually at fairly high prices once shipping charges are taken into account.

Peter

Peter,
Thanks so much for the link to your great and detailed read. Very informative!

Offline pk

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Re: Craig's NY Square
« Reply #52 on: December 10, 2015, 01:43:10 AM »
Craig looks great! Do you have a go to sauce recipe for your square pies?

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Craig's NY Square
« Reply #53 on: December 10, 2015, 09:07:25 AM »
Craig looks great! Do you have a go to sauce recipe for your square pies?

Thanks. It's pretty much the same as I use for everything else: canned tomato + salt. No cooking except for what happens on top of the pie. In this case I added a bit of oregano too. I often do this for NY-style and DS, but never for NP. The pie in the first picture used Sclafani crushed. The second pie use Sclafani crushed run through a food mill with the fine place. I liked the second a lot more. The first was too thick for this pie, IMO.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, baker's yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
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Offline oliveview

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Re: Craig's NY Square
« Reply #54 on: December 10, 2015, 10:14:14 AM »
TXCraig1:

I realized that your recipe indicates Low-DMP. I happen to have a package of regular DMP. Do you think the two would be generally interchangeable for a fermentation length such as yours? Or is there more of a substantial difference?

Thanks.

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Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Craig's NY Square
« Reply #55 on: December 10, 2015, 10:55:20 AM »
I don't know enough about the differences to have any advice. If it was me, I'd try to estimate the activity difference and adjust.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, baker's yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Craig's NY Square
« Reply #56 on: December 10, 2015, 11:05:31 AM »
TXCraig1:

I realized that your recipe indicates Low-DMP. I happen to have a package of regular DMP. Do you think the two would be generally interchangeable for a fermentation length such as yours? Or is there more of a substantial difference?

Thanks.
Olive,

If you have the regular diastatic malt, and is it a pure form of diastatic malt, it is likely to have a much higher activity level (its Lintner degrees number will be very high) as compared with the low-diastatic malt that Craig is using, which contains flour and a sugar of some sort (such as dextrose) as well as diastatic malt. My advice on these matters is to follow the recommendations of the producer of the diastatic malt you would be using. If that information is not available, you might tell us the brand of the product you would be using and maybe we can better advise you.

Peter

Offline oliveview

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Re: Craig's NY Square
« Reply #57 on: December 10, 2015, 11:33:32 AM »
Olive,

If you have the regular diastatic malt, and is it a pure form of diastatic malt, it is likely to have a much higher activity level (its Lintner degrees number will be very high) as compared with the low-diastatic malt that Craig is using, which contains flour and a sugar of some sort (such as dextrose) as well as diastatic malt. My advice on these matters is to follow the recommendations of the producer of the diastatic malt you would be using. If that information is not available, you might tell us the brand of the product you would be using and maybe we can better advise you.

Peter

Unfortunately, not sure what info I can really dig up. It's a "house" brand from Surfas, a local SoCal upscale cooking supply store. The package has no relevant info or directions, other than the base ingredients (malt barley, wheat flour, dextrose). Nor does their website offer any info regarding their food products.

Offline oliveview

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Re: Craig's NY Square
« Reply #58 on: December 10, 2015, 12:05:01 PM »
TXCraig1:

Sorry if I missed it elsewhere, but would you mind giving us a simple detailing of the process, as well? Stand mixer? Fermentation length & cold or RT? That sort of thing. Any very special steps to note? Approximate cook times & temps?

Thanks!

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Craig's NY Square
« Reply #59 on: December 10, 2015, 12:33:24 PM »
Unfortunately, not sure what info I can really dig up. It's a "house" brand from Surfas, a local SoCal upscale cooking supply store. The package has no relevant info or directions, other than the base ingredients (malt barley, wheat flour, dextrose). Nor does their website offer any info regarding their food products.
Olive,

Craig is using a low-diastatic malt from AB Mauri that I believe has a Lintner degrees number of around 20. If your ingredients list is actually correct, it would suggest a higher Lintner number than 20. However, I have seen several instances where the ingredients lists for diastatic malt products have been incorrect, both in spec sheets and on packaging labels. But if we assume that what dsissitka posted at Reply 171 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=34845.msg353253#msg353253 is correct, then your diastatic malt may have a Lintner value of around 60. On that basis, I would try using one-third of what Craig has specified and adjust the amount upwardly or downwardly from there based on your results.

I will also note that Surfas is using one of the standard sources of diastatic malt and is most likely repackaging it in small quantities. That is perhaps why you did not find any information of their repackaged product on the forum.

Peter

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