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Offline Andrew Bellucci

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Re: The Bellucci Sicilian
« Reply #20 on: April 30, 2021, 09:55:42 PM »
That looks great.  Not sure if it would work for you and your flow, but a pepperoni with vodka racing stripes sounds tasty to me.

Someone ordered a Sicilian with pepperoni + vodka sauce tonight. No racing stripes, but it looked great.

We have a vodka-sauce "Schmear" available for pies and slices. A lot of people add it on.

Offline nickyr

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The Bellucci Sicilian
« Reply #21 on: April 30, 2021, 11:26:55 PM »
Just made a Sicilian following your process pretty closely and it was definitely the best Sicilian I've ever made. Thanks so much for sharing your recipe!

Putting the sauce/water mixture on top before parbaking was revolutionary. The final pizza had a soft top but without the thick gum line you get when you don't parbake. And it baked very evenly. It really seemed like the best of both the parbaking and the non-parbaking worlds.

I did use more sauce and a lot more cheese than Andrew does because I wanted to. It seemed right to me, but I haven't had it Andrew's way, so I can't make any claims. I didn't pre-cook the sauce because I usually prefer it that way and since Andrew hasn't decided on a sauce recipe, I figured I'd just do my own thing with Sclafani crushed tomatoes.

I also adapted some stuff a little bit to make it easier for a home kitchen. A half sheet pan is 12x17, so I had to use a little under 2lbs of dough. I was definitely guessing about bake times and temperatures and mixing times and speeds (I'm using a KitchenAid mixer). I used some tips from https://www.chowhound.com/recipes/sicilian-pizza-la-regina-pizza-31228 for dough storage and workflow in a home setting.

Here's what I did, in case it helps anyone else looking to make Andrew's pizza. (If you're not looking to make it, you should be.) The dough formulation is from Andrew's other thread, https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=66053.210 (post 210).

For 12 x 17 half sheet pan:

King Arthur All Purpose flour: 100% - 857g
Water: 58.6% - 502 g
Salt: 2.6% - 22 g
IDY: 0.2% - 1.7g

(Edit: This is over 2 lbs and more dough than Andrew uses because I messed up...see comment below)

Mix water, flour, and yeast for 1 minute, until fully hydrated.
Cover and rest for 90 minutes.
Add salt, mix on low speed for 15 minutes.
Cover and bulk ferment at room temperature for 2 hours.
Place on oiled sheet pan, cover, and refrigerate for 48 hours.
Remove from fridge for 1 hour.
Crisco another sheet pan, flip dough onto it, and stretch out part way.
Let rest for 30-60 min, stretch out the rest of the way.
Proof at room temperature for 8 hours (over or under by an hour or two should be fine).
Squeeze any large bubbles to pop them.
Lightly but thoroughly cover with 50% water, 50% tomato sauce.
Parbake on preheated pizza stone at 550 for 15 minutes, rotating halfway through.
Transfer to wire rack and let rest for at least 30 minutes. (Andrew even recommends refrigerating overnight, but that didn't fit into my schedule)
When it's time to top, put pan in the oven with a few tablespoons of olive oil.
Meanwhile, dress the pie: 1.25 lbs sliced fresh mozzarella, ~20 oz of sauce, pecorino romano.
Take the now smoking pan out of the oven.
Carefully place the par-baked pie into the pan.
Place in oven and bake 10 minutes.
Pull it out and add another .25 lbs of sliced fresh mozzarella.
Bake until completion (15 minutes, rotating part way through).
Slice and top with basil.

I'm going to try making two changes next time:
I'm going to cold ferment for 72 hours instead of 48 and see if that makes the flavor even more awesome.
I'm going to skip putting the oiled pan in the oven before putting the pizza into it. That really made things smokey since I don't have a commercial hood!

Feedback welcome.

This pizza was really a winner. I'm extremely pleased. Thanks again!

Pics included of the parbake (first 3) and the final product (last 3). The three weird marks in the dough in the first pic are from where I almost knocked the pan off the counter and had to grab it!
« Last Edit: May 01, 2021, 11:25:07 AM by nickyr »

Offline nickyr

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The Bellucci Sicilian
« Reply #22 on: May 01, 2021, 11:03:12 AM »
Wow I realized I had a major brain fart. I should have used a little under 2 lbs of dough, but I used a little under 2 lbs of FLOUR. So my pizza is way thicker than Andrewís. Maybe thatís why it needed more cheese!

Oh well, it was good. Maybe Iíll try thinner next time :-)
« Last Edit: May 01, 2021, 11:07:28 AM by nickyr »

Offline NYSS

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Re: The Bellucci Sicilian
« Reply #23 on: May 04, 2021, 10:02:28 PM »
Wow I realized I had a major brain fart. I should have used a little under 2 lbs of dough, but I used a little under 2 lbs of FLOUR. So my pizza is way thicker than Andrewís. Maybe thatís why it needed more cheese!

Oh well, it was good. Maybe Iíll try thinner next time :-)

So how much flour should you have used?

BTW looks delicious either way!

Offline johnnyoak

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Re: The Bellucci Sicilian
« Reply #24 on: May 10, 2021, 02:05:55 PM »
Made another one yesterday for Mother's Day...tasted great, but I now know why vodka sauce goes on afterwards! What a mess and the crust was far less crisp

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Offline TXCraig1

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Re: The Bellucci Sicilian
« Reply #25 on: May 10, 2021, 02:49:01 PM »
PS - Amazing write-up in PMQ !!

Link? Please.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, baker's yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
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Online Pete-zza

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Re: The Bellucci Sicilian
« Reply #26 on: May 10, 2021, 03:08:58 PM »
Link? Please.
Craig,

I think this is the PMQ article:

https://www.pmq.com/bellucci-pizza/

Peter

Offline nickyr

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Re: The Bellucci Sicilian
« Reply #27 on: May 12, 2021, 12:16:46 AM »
So how much flour should you have used?

BTW looks delicious either way!

Thanks! I think this is the right formulation:

King Arthur All Purpose flour: 100% - 531g
Water: 58.6% - 311 g
Salt: 2.6% - 14 g
IDY: 0.2% - 1.06g

That gives a total dough weight of just under 2 lbs (scaled down slightly for a 12x17 half sheet pan instead of Andrew's 12x18 pans)

Offline Andrew Bellucci

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Re: The Bellucci Sicilian
« Reply #28 on: May 14, 2021, 08:21:06 PM »
Wow I realized I had a major brain fart. I should have used a little under 2 lbs of dough, but I used a little under 2 lbs of FLOUR. So my pizza is way thicker than Andrewís. Maybe thatís why it needed more cheese!

Oh well, it was good. Maybe Iíll try thinner next time :-)

That's a beautiful Sicilian - even if it's a little "big"!!   :-D :-D :-D

I experimented a bit this week with larger dough balls:  going up in increments of one ounce up to 2lbs, 8 oz.  Didn't like any of them:  910g is what I'm sticking with.

I still haven't settled on which tomatoes I'm using for the sauce.  I cook the sauce two #10 cans per batch and always include one that's ground peeled like the Pastenes or the 6 in 1s and the other can is Alta Cuchina or Valorosso, whatever I have laying around (I always have a lot of variety on hand).

But what has remained consistent is the recipe:

2 #10 cans of whatever I'm using
1/2 Cup EVOO
15 cloves garlic, minced
1/4 t chili powder (homemade, using real fire including dehydrated ghost peppers)
1 T kosher salt
1 Yellow onion very small dice
Black pepper to taste
1 Cup fresh marjoram, fine chopped
1 Cup fresh basil, fine chopped

Heat the oil, quick cook of the onions, then garlic - not adding color
Add everything else, but the fresh herbs, cook for 20 minutes
Take off the fire, add the fresh herbs
Good to go...

One more thing:

I've been real happy with the Winco pans - and I'm abusing them, what with the frying of the oil, they're getting a real workout and so far, so good.

There was a real interesting Instagram post from Apollonia's  in L.A.  He does great looking squares out there and lately has done some using a 99 cent disposable aluminum sheet tray from the discount store.  And the result was spectacular.

Technique trumps equipment every time...
« Last Edit: May 14, 2021, 11:12:01 PM by Andrew Bellucci »

Offline Andrew Bellucci

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Re: The Bellucci Sicilian
« Reply #29 on: May 14, 2021, 09:35:34 PM »
Just made a Sicilian following your process pretty closely and it was definitely the best Sicilian I've ever made. Thanks so much for sharing your recipe!

Putting the sauce/water mixture on top before parbaking was revolutionary. The final pizza had a soft top but without the thick gum line you get when you don't parbake. And it baked very evenly. It really seemed like the best of both the parbaking and the non-parbaking worlds.

I did use more sauce and a lot more cheese than Andrew does because I wanted to. It seemed right to me, but I haven't had it Andrew's way, so I can't make any claims. I didn't pre-cook the sauce because I usually prefer it that way and since Andrew hasn't decided on a sauce recipe, I figured I'd just do my own thing with Sclafani crushed tomatoes.

I also adapted some stuff a little bit to make it easier for a home kitchen. A half sheet pan is 12x17, so I had to use a little under 2lbs of dough. I was definitely guessing about bake times and temperatures and mixing times and speeds (I'm using a KitchenAid mixer). I used some tips from https://www.chowhound.com/recipes/sicilian-pizza-la-regina-pizza-31228 for dough storage and workflow in a home setting.

Here's what I did, in case it helps anyone else looking to make Andrew's pizza. (If you're not looking to make it, you should be.) The dough formulation is from Andrew's other thread, https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=66053.210 (post 210).

For 12 x 17 half sheet pan:

King Arthur All Purpose flour: 100% - 857g
Water: 58.6% - 502 g
Salt: 2.6% - 22 g
IDY: 0.2% - 1.7g

(Edit: This is over 2 lbs and more dough than Andrew uses because I messed up...see comment below)

Mix water, flour, and yeast for 1 minute, until fully hydrated.
Cover and rest for 90 minutes.
Add salt, mix on low speed for 15 minutes.
Cover and bulk ferment at room temperature for 2 hours.
Place on oiled sheet pan, cover, and refrigerate for 48 hours.
Remove from fridge for 1 hour.
Crisco another sheet pan, flip dough onto it, and stretch out part way.
Let rest for 30-60 min, stretch out the rest of the way.
Proof at room temperature for 8 hours (over or under by an hour or two should be fine).
Squeeze any large bubbles to pop them.
Lightly but thoroughly cover with 50% water, 50% tomato sauce.
Parbake on preheated pizza stone at 550 for 15 minutes, rotating halfway through.
Transfer to wire rack and let rest for at least 30 minutes. (Andrew even recommends refrigerating overnight, but that didn't fit into my schedule)
When it's time to top, put pan in the oven with a few tablespoons of olive oil.
Meanwhile, dress the pie: 1.25 lbs sliced fresh mozzarella, ~20 oz of sauce, pecorino romano.
Take the now smoking pan out of the oven.
Carefully place the par-baked pie into the pan.
Place in oven and bake 10 minutes.
Pull it out and add another .25 lbs of sliced fresh mozzarella.
Bake until completion (15 minutes, rotating part way through).
Slice and top with basil.

I'm going to try making two changes next time:
I'm going to cold ferment for 72 hours instead of 48 and see if that makes the flavor even more awesome.

I've made some changes to this formula and this is probably what I'm sticking with, it's been working great for over a week:

The Sicilian dough is the same as my rounds, and I've recently made some adjustments to that as well:

First, when I start my batch, I only mix the flour and water together for 1 minute. I then sprinkle the IDY Into the top. Then I Autolyse for 20 minutes. I feel the yeast blooms more evenly this way then mixing directly into cold water...

After the mix the dough goes into big boxes and bulk ferments for appx 15 hours. I tried everything from 3 hours to 36 hours and thought 15 was the best for consistency of ferment. I found anything under 10 hours was inconsistent. It made it very difficult for me to calculate the room temp ferment time after balling.

Typically now we mix our batches of dough starting at 5pm and then start cutting and balling the next morning at 8am.

The next step is crucial and that's the amount of time to let room ferment before placing in the walkin.  There's a lot of factors that play into this, and my current calculations have been pretty good based on those factors:

I take the room temp into consideration first, based on 82F, which is currently the average temp downstairs, at least for the past 3 weeks.

Then I factor in the bulk rise:  I grade 1 - 5, with 3 being perfect. A 1 would be very dense and a 5 would be overblown. I then look in the walkin at the progress of previous batches with their notations and determine the time.

For Sicilians right now we do a room ferment of 2:15, then into the walk-in

Ive been jamming the walk-in with dough, so I'm able to keep them in there at least 30 hours, which gives a total 47 hour ferment. I've tested at 36, 48, 72, 96 and really don't taste much of a difference. A thing less than 30 total hours and I start having bad texture foremost - and I've closed the shop because of this. Only happened the first month.

I Crisco the pan and put the cold dough onto the tray and if it's perfectly Fermented, it pans out flawlessly, absolutely no problem getting them in the corners.

Then the plastic sheet over the top and room temp ferment I've been doing downstairs at 83F for 8-9 hours before the parbake.

For the parbake I made a mistake in my original post, it's not a 50/50 mix of water and tomatoes it's like a 90/10 water/tomato mix. It's very little, very watery and it works great, just shake the excess water off.

Par-baking at 540F, 3/7 on the Pizzamaster really by eye, maybe 6-7 minutes.

And that's it. Pop it out, cool, refrigerate then dress and bake as you wish. We bake ours in the hot decks, 630F, 6/4.  I like it better than cooking in the clice oven at 540.  Especially with the oil, I want it blasting hot.

I'm linking to a video showing how I label my dough tins for reference.




« Last Edit: May 14, 2021, 10:53:09 PM by Andrew Bellucci »

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Offline steesmak

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Re: The Bellucci Sicilian
« Reply #30 on: May 20, 2021, 04:39:39 AM »
I love this and is very close to what im doing although ive renamed mine a cobbscillian as somethimes a hybrid between this and detroit

Offline nickyr

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Re: The Bellucci Sicilian
« Reply #31 on: May 28, 2021, 10:42:41 PM »
Thanks Andrew! Iím gonna try out your sauce recipe next week

Offline johnnyoak

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Re: The Bellucci Sicilian
« Reply #32 on: May 28, 2021, 11:18:15 PM »
This may be a silly question...is the bulk ferment done at room temp as well?

Offline Andrew Bellucci

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Re: The Bellucci Sicilian
« Reply #33 on: May 30, 2021, 10:53:53 AM »
This may be a silly question...is the bulk ferment done at room temp as well?

After the mix, we transfer the dough to large bins and immediately place them in the walk-in for the bulk ferment, anywhere between 15-17 hours.

Offline FunkedOut

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Re: The Bellucci Sicilian
« Reply #34 on: June 03, 2021, 08:04:32 PM »
Going for this myself tonight.
I have a few things going differently, but going to try and implement most of the techniques here.

I use a sourdough starter as my levin, but it was spiked with commercial yeast over a year ago, as the local yeast left a lot to be desired.
I'd venture to guess it's pretty much all commercial yeast with local bacteria eating what the yeast leave behind.
It makes tasty bread for me and I understand its behavior so I use it for almost all my bread.

Made a dough ball that works out to 0.135 oz/sq.in thickness factor.
It's going in an uncoated 10 gauge aluminum 17" x 12" baking sheet.
(2lbs of dough in this pan works out to a thickness factor over 0.150 oz/sq.in)

2 hour bulk ferment at room temp after mixing.
18 hour cold ferment in a bowl.
warmed up to room temp for a couple of hours before spreading into the baking sheet.
after 1 hour rest, I stretched it out again.
after 1/2 hour, the corners needed a little work.
I left it alone for 1 hour before the water/sauce and parbake.

Sauce is left over cooked sauce from dinner the other night.
Lots of beef and pork in the making of this sauce.

Oven only gets to 500*F
5/8" stone has been sitting in the preheated oven for 1 hour on the bottom rack.

Pictures inbound...

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Offline FunkedOut

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Re: The Bellucci Sicilian
« Reply #35 on: June 03, 2021, 08:25:15 PM »
1st, a pic of the dough right before getting water/sauced prior to the parbake
2nd, a pic of the dough water/sauced.  I put a bit too much in and let it run out just like in the video!
3rd & 4th, after a 15 minute bake with the sheet right on the stone at 500*F.
5th & 6th, while the parbaked crust cools, I make the insurance pies with thickness factor of 0.095 oz/sq.in.
7th & 8th, I made the square pizza a meat lovers.  No additional oil in the sheet and no heating the sheet.  about twice the amount of sauce I used for the other pies of equal area.

The crust got some color and was delicious.
Crispy, crunchy edges, soft interior and zero gummy goo!
This is the first time I get that result.
I blame the water/sauce technique.  @Andrew Belluci, you're the man!
Anyway, I got something from this forum and wanted to give something back.
Cheers!
Enjoy the pics.

Offline nickyr

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Re: The Bellucci Sicilian
« Reply #36 on: June 05, 2021, 11:31:07 AM »
Made it again, still great.

I made it extra thick again, this time intentionally, at the request of a South Jersey friend. She was thoroughly impressed.

I made Andrewís sauce this time. It was very tasty. Iíll need to do a side by side to compare it to what I did before some time because I couldnít decide which I liked best. This was definitely what my friend was looking for thoughóvery herby and flavorful.

I didnít smoke my oil this time, just warmed it a little. Seemed to work fine. The oven was still full of smoke from stuff falling out of the pan since I made the pizza so big. Whoops. Next time Iíll have to try the real size and it will probably be less smoky.

Offline johnnyoak

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Re: The Bellucci Sicilian
« Reply #37 on: June 05, 2021, 11:56:35 AM »
These look amazing

Offline Georgev

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Re: The Bellucci Sicilian
« Reply #38 on: June 06, 2021, 01:09:01 PM »
I've made some changes to this formula and this is probably what I'm sticking with, it's been working great for over a week:

The Sicilian dough is the same as my rounds, and I've recently made some adjustments to that as well:

First, when I start my batch, I only mix the flour and water together for 1 minute. I then sprinkle the IDY Into the top. Then I Autolyse for 20 minutes. I feel the yeast blooms more evenly this way then mixing directly into cold water...

After the mix the dough goes into big boxes and bulk ferments for appx 15 hours. I tried everything from 3 hours to 36 hours and thought 15 was the best for consistency of ferment. I found anything under 10 hours was inconsistent. It made it very difficult for me to calculate the room temp ferment time after balling.

Typically now we mix our batches of dough starting at 5pm and then start cutting and balling the next morning at 8am.

The next step is crucial and that's the amount of time to let room ferment before placing in the walkin.  There's a lot of factors that play into this, and my current calculations have been pretty good based on those factors:

I take the room temp into consideration first, based on 82F, which is currently the average temp downstairs, at least for the past 3 weeks.

Then I factor in the bulk rise:  I grade 1 - 5, with 3 being perfect. A 1 would be very dense and a 5 would be overblown. I then look in the walkin at the progress of previous batches with their notations and determine the time.

For Sicilians right now we do a room ferment of 2:15, then into the walk-in

Ive been jamming the walk-in with dough, so I'm able to keep them in there at least 30 hours, which gives a total 47 hour ferment. I've tested at 36, 48, 72, 96 and really don't taste much of a difference. A thing less than 30 total hours and I start having bad texture foremost - and I've closed the shop because of this. Only happened the first month.

I Crisco the pan and put the cold dough onto the tray and if it's perfectly Fermented, it pans out flawlessly, absolutely no problem getting them in the corners.

Then the plastic sheet over the top and room temp ferment I've been doing downstairs at 83F for 8-9 hours before the parbake.

For the parbake I made a mistake in my original post, it's not a 50/50 mix of water and tomatoes it's like a 90/10 water/tomato mix. It's very little, very watery and it works great, just shake the excess water off.

Par-baking at 540F, 3/7 on the Pizzamaster really by eye, maybe 6-7 minutes.

And that's it. Pop it out, cool, refrigerate then dress and bake as you wish. We bake ours in the hot decks, 630F, 6/4.  I like it better than cooking in the clice oven at 540.  Especially with the oil, I want it blasting hot.

I'm linking to a video showing how I label my dough tins for reference.



Hey Andrew I noticed in that video you posted where you took the dough temps of the individual balls that they where all in the 50-60s is this temp taken right after room bulk or after walk-in bulk then balled then you took the temp? Iím assuming post walk-in bulk right?

Offline NYSS

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Re: The Bellucci Sicilian
« Reply #39 on: June 06, 2021, 09:39:20 PM »
Made it tonight. Came out great!

Thanks Andrew and nickyr!

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