Pizza Making Forum

Pizza Making => New York Style => Topic started by: PizzaEater101 on July 08, 2016, 12:52:16 PM

Title: Grimaldi's Clone Recipe - Can We Figure It Out?
Post by: PizzaEater101 on July 08, 2016, 12:52:16 PM
This is not a review although I have great praises for Grimaldi's but there is a review board here if I want to do a proper review.  What I want is that recipe for dough and even the sauce.

I never have been to NYC.  I don't know how Grimaldi's is in NYC because I know when restaurants branch out sometimes it is different in different locations.   I knew about Grimaldi's from seeing it on TV about 5 years ago, maybe Food Wars.   About two years ago Grimaldi's opened up here in So Cal.  I was excited but because of the distance, only about 45 mins without traffic, but about 1.5 hours with LA traffic, and the fact I get busy I never had gone to it until last Saturday.    I went to Venice Beach and although not near Grimaldi's, I was out and about and on that side of town so my friend and I hopped on the freeway (I think 405 FWY) and made our way over there.

I was not sure what to expect but I always wanted some Grimaldi's and some coal oven pizza.   I enjoyed it greatly.  The sauce was excellent.  The crust was unbelievably good.  The whole pizza was incredible to say the least.  I'm not sure if there is a coal vs. wood fire thing going on which gives this an edge because I only had coal this one time and but have had wood fire pizza about a dozen times.  So maybe coal does or does not have to do with it.  I have found that coal leaves a drier cooking/baking environment and doesn't impart a smoke flavor like wood.  Not sure if that has a lot to do with Grimald's vs. other places that utilize wood.

So my question for you, those who are familiar with Grimaldi's would you be able to help in breaking down the formula for the dough and the sauce?  I'm not good at that kind of things and I only had Grimaldi's once so I am not going to figure out on my own.   On Food Wars the owner, she said they just import tomatoes from Italy and don't do much with it.  She couldn't tell what they do.  Whatever they do the sauce was great.  Maybe they are just good San Marazno with a little bit of help from salt? 

Any Grimaldi's fans out there?  I am. I do plan on visiting more even though I don't live near there.  Hey I love Pizzeria Luigi but that is in San Diego, so I only been there twice in about 5 years, so this Grimaldi's in El Segundo is a heck of a lot closer and easy to get to, so I should make it there once or twice a month.  Next I try the "White Pizza".


Thanks,


James
Title: Re: Grimaldi's Clone Recipe - Can We Figure It Out?
Post by: The Dough Doctor on July 08, 2016, 01:28:38 PM
James;
I can't speak to the Grimaldi's near to you as I have only been to one of the original "Patsy's" at the base of the Brooklyn Bridge, it is indeed a great pizza though a little on the tough/chewy side. I would think that any good New York pizza dough and sauce formula found here should at least get you pointed in the right direction and give you something to work on. Remember, unless you have an oven that is capable of reaching at least 700F it might take some "doing" on your part, but in any case you should be enjoying some great pizzas along the way.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor
Title: Re: Grimaldi's Clone Recipe - Can We Figure It Out?
Post by: PizzaEater101 on July 08, 2016, 01:40:11 PM
James;
I can't speak to the Grimaldi's near to you as I have only been to one of the original "Patsy's" at the base of the Brooklyn Bridge, it is indeed a great pizza though a little on the tough/chewy side. I would think that any good New York pizza dough and sauce formula found here should at least get you pointed in the right direction and give you something to work on. Remember, unless you have an oven that is capable of reaching at least 700F it might take some "doing" on your part, but in any case you should be enjoying some great pizzas along the way.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

For some reason the dough I had was not tough and chewy.  The waiter says they have a water tank that they make water that mimics NYC water.  So this must mean they alter the water to mimic the mineral content of NYC water.  I really don't think water has a lot to do with dough qualities.  I think that might be a myth.  But if it's true then I would need NYC like water.

I can get my oven up to about 800 degrees F.  Reason is I have a natural gas, gas grill that I bake on and it gets super hot.   But I can't do coal. I'm working on that now.

I'll go with a good dough one that I use but I don't think it's quite right.  I'm just trying to figure out if Grimaldi is high or low hydration.  Only went once and not sure.

Dough Doctor thank you for your input.
Title: Re: Grimaldi's Clone Recipe - Can We Figure It Out?
Post by: Pete-zza on July 08, 2016, 01:57:39 PM
James,

The post cited below is from 2008 and things may have changed at Grimaldi's, at least the one I visited, but you may want to read the post anyway. It is at Reply 16 at:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=3669.msg54056#msg54056

I also agree with Tom that the type of oven is very important. It and the dough formulation have to be very compatible.

As for the NY water matter, see this recent thread:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=43853.msg438965#msg438965

Peter
Title: Re: Grimaldi's Clone Recipe - Can We Figure It Out?
Post by: TXCraig1 on July 08, 2016, 02:10:34 PM
I'm not doubting Peter's report linked to above that the dough is cold fermented for 24 hours at the chain locations, but I'm pretty sure that is not how they did it at the original location. There simply isn't enough space in that location. I think it's almost a certainty that it was a 2-3 hour dough that was made several times every day at the original location.
Title: Re: Grimaldi's Clone Recipe - Can We Figure It Out?
Post by: PizzaEater101 on July 08, 2016, 02:52:22 PM
Peter, thank you for the link.  I read your posting, it's very informative.  I'll go with what you suggest with the 58% hydration.
Title: Re: Grimaldi's Clone Recipe - Can We Figure It Out?
Post by: TXCraig1 on July 08, 2016, 04:04:25 PM
Again, I can't speak to the chain pizza, but I think the original was high 60's hydration, 1-2% oil, 3%+ salt, and 3% sugar, maybe more.
Title: Re: Grimaldi's Clone Recipe - Can We Figure It Out?
Post by: scott r on July 08, 2016, 04:34:45 PM
Hey I know at the original location under the bridge they always had a massive quantity of dough trays sitting out at room temp.   Im with craig... definitely room temp fermentation or at least partial room temp.   Its been a while but I feel like there were at least 100 trays out pushed up against the back wall.    It may be buried in my posts here from 10 years ago, but I did find out what the flour was and I think I put it on the forum.   It was high gluten flour labeled from a miller (probably just a repacked) in new jersey.    It was a bromated flour so all trumps wouldn't be too far off.   good luck!    great pizza!!!
Title: Re: Grimaldi's Clone Recipe - Can We Figure It Out?
Post by: Pete-zza on July 08, 2016, 04:50:09 PM
Scott,

Was it the Blooming Best flour--a high gluten flour from NJ?

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=1616.msg14618;topicseen#msg14618

https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=11660.msg107434#msg107434

Reply 5 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=1071.msg9636#msg9636

Peter
Title: Re: Grimaldi's Clone Recipe - Can We Figure It Out?
Post by: norma427 on July 08, 2016, 08:09:55 PM
James,

I don't know if you can get any clues from what Grimaldi's uses or not, but posted some photos starting at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=39324.msg392929#msg392929

Norma
Title: Re: Grimaldi's Clone Recipe - Can We Figure It Out?
Post by: PizzaEater101 on July 08, 2016, 08:10:57 PM
James,

I don't know if you can get any clues from what Grimaldi's uses or not, but posted some photos starting at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=39324.msg392929#msg392929

Norma

Thank you for the link Norma.  I will look it over. 
Title: Re: Grimaldi's Clone Recipe - Can We Figure It Out?
Post by: TXCraig1 on July 08, 2016, 09:10:09 PM
One important thing you can see in those pictures is that the cheese (slices of fresh mozz) goes down first with the sauce on top in a very splotchy sort of way.
Title: Re: Grimaldi's Clone Recipe - Can We Figure It Out?
Post by: Jersey Pie Boy on July 09, 2016, 06:59:27 AM
Been reading through this, and noticed on the Slice of Brooklyn pizza tour link that the Grimaldi's pizza is referred to as Neapolitan. But everything I'm reading here talks of high-gluten, perhaps AT   Am I mistaken in my understanding that NP needs to be made with 00 flour?


So .055 TF...Can that he handheld, or with a super-hot and fast bake, is this a knife and fork pie, even though HG...Or do you pick them up and eat them like an NY slice?
Title: Re: Grimaldi's Clone Recipe - Can We Figure It Out?
Post by: norma427 on July 09, 2016, 07:34:30 AM
Been reading through this, and noticed on the Slice of Brooklyn pizza tour link that the Grimaldi's pizza is referred to as Neapolitan. But everything I'm reading here talks of high-gluten, perhaps AT   Am I mistaken in my understanding that NP needs to be made with 00 flour?


Bill,

Maybe this will explain a little better.

While dining at Giuliana recently, our intrepid Recipe editor Will Budiaman encountered Grimaldi himself, and asked him what the main differences are between a New York and Neapolitan-style pizza. Grimaldiís answer was technical yet extremely simple: According to Grimaldi, the difference between Neapolitan-style pizza and New York-style pizza is that Neapolitan-style pizza uses what's called '0' or '00' flour, which is ground as finely as possible, and is made in a wood-burning oven. "If you use '0' flour to make a pizza and cook it in a coal oven like mine, itíll just burn up," he said.

Grimaldi uses what he calls "American flour," which is most likely just all-purpose, for his New York-style pies, from a special supplier who gives him 1,000 bags a day. He also cooks his pizza in a coal oven, which is illegal in New York but allowed where itís been grandfathered in.


http://www.thedailymeal.com/patsy-grimaldi-difference-between-new-york-and-neapolitan-style-pizza

http://www.grimaldispizzeria.com/our_story.aspx

http://www.pizzatoday.com/departments/features/coal-miners-march-2003/


Norma
Title: Re: Grimaldi's Clone Recipe - Can We Figure It Out?
Post by: Jersey Pie Boy on July 09, 2016, 08:01:30 AM
Ah, thanks Norma...so a lotta online misnomers. The word Neapolitan does tend to get tossed around a lot. So I guess it's often just BS...and by that, I don't mean Blackstone or Baking Steel  >:D :-D  So these are what maybe is called here New York Elite, is that right? Very thin, super-fast baked at higher than usual NY temperatures and slightly charred.   Which I love.. Not too different from John's and Patsy's I would think?


In the one Grimaldi's thread that I think may have been from your trip,  I thought the bake looked quite pale. so I was guessing maybe there was some unmalted flour in the dough, but I guess that's not the case?

Title: Re: Grimaldi's Clone Recipe - Can We Figure It Out?
Post by: scott r on July 09, 2016, 08:26:54 AM
thats it peter.... blooming best high gluten flour is what they were using.   thanks for digging that up!
Title: Re: Grimaldi's Clone Recipe - Can We Figure It Out?
Post by: norma427 on July 09, 2016, 08:35:30 AM

In the one Grimaldi's thread that I think may have been from your trip,  I thought the bake looked quite pale. so I was guessing maybe there was some unmalted flour in the dough, but I guess that's not the case?

Bill,

The slices of pizza I had at Grimaldi's were quite charred on the bottom crust, especially the one slice. 

You can see on the post by Adam Kuban what he thought of Grimaldi's pies.

http://slice.seriouseats.com/archives/2012/03/grimaldis-bigger-and-better.html

I guess it all depends on who is tending the oven and if they get the pizzas out of the oven at the right time what the top and bottom crusts will look like.

Norma



Title: Re: Grimaldi's Clone Recipe - Can We Figure It Out?
Post by: Pete-zza on July 09, 2016, 09:17:40 AM
thats it peter.... blooming best high gluten flour is what they were using.   thanks for digging that up!
It is hard to imagine that the Grimaldi stores outside of NY would be using the Blooming Best flour, unless the flour is sold under a different name and from a major miller. Grimaldi's is now spread out all over the country.

I did a quick search on the Blooming Best flour and did not find anything, even when using the name of the NJ source that Ron mentioned.

Peter
Title: Re: Grimaldi's Clone Recipe - Can We Figure It Out?
Post by: Jersey Pie Boy on July 09, 2016, 09:24:31 AM
Thanks Norma..It's always good to  read Adam's take on things, too. When he says it won't wow the pizza nerds, well, I guess that would be most anyone reading this thread  :-D
Title: Re: Grimaldi's Clone Recipe - Can We Figure It Out?
Post by: TXCraig1 on July 09, 2016, 11:49:20 AM
It is hard to imagine that the Grimaldi stores outside of NY would be using the Blooming Best flour, unless the flour is sold under a different name and from a major miller. Grimaldi's is now spread out all over the country.

I did a quick search on the Blooming Best flour and did not find anything, even when using the name of the NJ source that Ron mentioned.

Peter

Peter,

I think Blooming Best is a private brand of A. Oliveri & Sons.

Don't the chain stores use a private brand flour under the Grimaldi's name? I'd be a bit surprised if it's a proprietary formulation however.
Title: Re: Grimaldi's Clone Recipe - Can We Figure It Out?
Post by: TXCraig1 on July 09, 2016, 11:51:07 AM
It is. Says so here: http://aoliveriandsons.com/faq/

Quote
Q. What are the specs on your house brand flours?

      Our very popular, industry recognized line of flours are:  Glutamax, Blooming Best and Roman Gold. For specifications, please call 201.319.9122 and ask for Evan B.
Title: Re: Grimaldi's Clone Recipe - Can We Figure It Out?
Post by: norma427 on July 09, 2016, 11:58:29 AM


I think Blooming Best is a private brand of A. Oliveri & Sons.


Craig,

Your are right about A. Oliveri & Sons.  It says Blooming Best is a Strong Patent flour on page 2 of their catalog.
 

Norma
Title: Re: Grimaldi's Clone Recipe - Can We Figure It Out?
Post by: Pete-zza on July 09, 2016, 12:41:43 PM
Craig,

Thanks for finding the right source. I had searched under A. Verio & Sons that Ron Molinaro mentioned in Reply 5 at:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=1071.msg9636#msg9636

In the Scottsdale location, the source of the Grimaldi's flour was Roma, now part of Vistar/Performance Food Group (http://www.vistar.com/). The Phoenix location carries the GM and ConAgra products but I did not see any flours under those names. And nothing under Grimaldi's.

Peter
Title: Re: Grimaldi's Clone Recipe - Can We Figure It Out?
Post by: Essen1 on July 09, 2016, 01:29:15 PM
Here's a good view on how they assemble what must be their Margherita pie:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXFr7MN8B90

Title: Re: Grimaldi's Clone Recipe - Can We Figure It Out?
Post by: TXCraig1 on July 09, 2016, 01:45:51 PM
Craig,

Thanks for finding the right source. I had searched under A. Verio & Sons that Ron Molinaro mentioned in Reply 5 at:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=1071.msg9636#msg9636

In the Scottsdale location, the source of the Grimaldi's flour was Roma, now part of Vistar/Performance Food Group (http://www.vistar.com/). The Phoenix location carries the GM and ConAgra products but I did not see any flours under those names. And nothing under Grimaldi's.

Peter

I don't think it's unusual not to list controlled brands in your product list. I'd also guess that it's PFG Customized not Vistar that services them. Vistar does snacks, drinks, vending, etc.
Title: Re: Grimaldi's Clone Recipe - Can We Figure It Out?
Post by: Essen1 on July 09, 2016, 02:20:37 PM
It is hard to imagine that the Grimaldi stores outside of NY would be using the Blooming Best flour, unless the flour is sold under a different name and from a major miller. Grimaldi's is now spread out all over the country.

I did a quick search on the Blooming Best flour and did not find anything, even when using the name of the NJ source that Ron mentioned.

Peter

Peter,

Same here. Google did not turn up anything regarding Blooming Best, not even an address for their mill or warehouse, nothing.

It's like they don't exist.


EDIT: Did not see Craig's post about Oliveri & Sons.  :-[
Title: Re: Grimaldi's Clone Recipe - Can We Figure It Out?
Post by: Minolta Rokkor on July 09, 2016, 04:00:08 PM
Wow, seeing Norma's posts really inspired to me to a Grimaldi style, (not clone) pizza.

The looks of the pizza is breath of fresh air (to me)

I'll see what I can come up with.
Title: Re: Grimaldi's Clone Recipe - Can We Figure It Out?
Post by: hammettjr on July 09, 2016, 10:28:21 PM
Here's a good view on how they assemble what must be their Margherita pie:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXFr7MN8B90

Thanks for this. Interesting how strongly he throws each slice of cheese down, looks deliberate. I'm guessing it's to keep the cheese from moving when he launches the pie?
Title: Re: Grimaldi's Clone Recipe - Can We Figure It Out?
Post by: TXCraig1 on July 09, 2016, 10:30:59 PM
I think it's just his style and the fact that he's moving fast. You could lay the sliced down feather light and they wouldn't slice during the launch.
Title: Re: Grimaldi's Clone Recipe - Can We Figure It Out?
Post by: PizzaEater101 on July 09, 2016, 10:34:31 PM
Totonno's and Grimaldi's does it very similar with the cheese slices and then the sauce in splashes.  Lombardi's maybe does that too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27MgNqQ59Ac
Title: Re: Grimaldi's Clone Recipe - Can We Figure It Out?
Post by: TXCraig1 on July 09, 2016, 10:40:10 PM
Lombardi's maybe does that too.

Lombardi's is sauce under the cheese. Their pizza would be just as awful if they put the sauce on top though.
Title: Re: Grimaldi's Clone Recipe - Can We Figure It Out?
Post by: hammettjr on July 09, 2016, 10:42:57 PM
I think it's just his style and the fact that he's moving fast. You could lay the sliced down feather light and they wouldn't slice during the launch.

I call his style "angry blackjack dealer" :)
Title: Re: Grimaldi's Clone Recipe - Can We Figure It Out?
Post by: invertedisdead on July 09, 2016, 10:43:07 PM
Totonno's and Grimaldi's does it very similar with the cheese slices and then the sauce in splashes.  Lombardi's maybe does that too.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27MgNqQ59Ac

Thoughts on dried marjoram?
Title: Re: Grimaldi's Clone Recipe - Can We Figure It Out?
Post by: parallei on July 09, 2016, 11:11:37 PM
...... and then the sauce in splashes.


I've taken to doing the "sauce in splashes" thing on all my Sicilian/Detroit style pies.  If I did NY style indoors, I'd probably do the same splash thing.  Two reasons, 1) it conforms to the every bite should taste different theory and 2) to me,it is ascetically pleasing (looks cool).
Title: Re: Grimaldi's Clone Recipe - Can We Figure It Out?
Post by: shuboyje on July 09, 2016, 11:12:24 PM
It's commonly said here that pizza doesn't care where the heat comes from.  This style is an exception to that rule.  The intense dry convection heat in a coal oven is so unique and cooks so differently then any other oven you will ever use.  For instance you will never get the melt right on that style cheese in another oven, in a coal oven most would nail it first time.
Title: Re: Grimaldi's Clone Recipe - Can We Figure It Out?
Post by: norma427 on July 10, 2016, 07:49:07 AM
Mike's reference to Grimaldi's video is great.

These are two more videos on YouTube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbs3qZAB4DY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qD3fcXAqbWk

I think shuboyje is right that it would be hard to replicate a Grimaldi's pizza unless someone had a coal oven.

Norma
Title: Re: Grimaldi's Clone Recipe - Can We Figure It Out?
Post by: jsaras on July 10, 2016, 10:45:45 AM
It's commonly said here that pizza doesn't care where the heat comes from. 

Au contraire mon frere. A WFO is capable of nearly any style if you know what you're doing. You'll never bake a Neapolitan or NY-style pizza in a conveyor oven, or possibly any type of pizza for that matter.

Heat transfer properties are also a huge factor in terms of how something bakes.  If I could get my home oven to 900 degrees, dropping a pizza onto the wire rack will not create the same bake as the floor of a WFO at a similar temperature.
Title: Re: Grimaldi's Clone Recipe - Can We Figure It Out?
Post by: shuboyje on July 10, 2016, 11:05:38 AM
You are preaching to the choir.  There is a reason I have a blodgett 1000, a coal oven and a wood oven and it's not just because I'm crazy like most people think lol.
Title: Re: Grimaldi's Clone Recipe - Can We Figure It Out?
Post by: TXCraig1 on July 10, 2016, 12:52:00 PM
I think the understanding of heat has matured a lot here over the past few years as more and more people have started using WFOs and baking at higher temperatures.

Pizza does care where the heat comes from, all heat is not equal, temperature measurements in isolation are meaningless, hot is not necessarily hot, the importance of conductivity, saturation, balance, etc. 
Title: Re: Grimaldi's Clone Recipe - Can We Figure It Out?
Post by: Minolta Rokkor on July 10, 2016, 06:44:32 PM
Judying from the video.
The Grimaldi cheese is pre sliced fresh mozzarella.

Well, I can't slice fresh mozzarella balls the size of which they have.

However, my food mart just stocked up on some Galbani Fresh mozzarella, and it's BIG.

Here the cheese I purchased.
I can't tell whether their hard/sharp cheese is finely grated or dusted so I did both to the Parmesan wedge.
Grinding it to powdered form was nothing short of annoying so i'm going to find a vintage rotary cheese grater to solve that issue.


I think i'll try my first attempt in 2 hours.
Title: Re: Grimaldi's Clone Recipe - Can We Figure It Out?
Post by: PizzaEater101 on July 10, 2016, 09:36:55 PM
Normally I don't care for "fresh mozz".  I've tried to like it but I don't, I like the aged stuff if you will, but at Grimaldi's it was spot on great.  I suppose it is the coal that worked well with the fresh mozz to taste just so good.  Tried it with deck oven pizza and wood burning pizza and didn't care for it much.  Coal is the trick I think.
Title: Re: Grimaldi's Clone Recipe - Can We Figure It Out?
Post by: invertedisdead on July 10, 2016, 10:01:54 PM
Normally I don't care for "fresh mozz".  I've tried to like it but I don't, I like the aged stuff if you will, but at Grimaldi's it was spot on great.  I suppose it is the coal that worked well with the fresh mozz to taste just so good.  Tried it with deck oven pizza and wood burning pizza and didn't care for it much.  Coal is the trick I think.

You might try Bel Fiore mozzarella.
Title: Re: Grimaldi's Clone Recipe - Can We Figure It Out?
Post by: Minolta Rokkor on July 10, 2016, 11:00:42 PM
Well I tried it and wasn't impressed, i'll stick to other styles.


Baked on steel
Title: Re: Grimaldi's Clone Recipe - Can We Figure It Out?
Post by: TXCraig1 on July 10, 2016, 11:45:41 PM
Well I tried it and wasn't impressed, i'll stick to other styles.


Baked on steel

Not to take anything away from your pizza; it's pretty far from the real thing. As has been said above, you are not going to recreate this pizza in a home oven.
Title: Re: Grimaldi's Clone Recipe - Can We Figure It Out?
Post by: Minolta Rokkor on July 11, 2016, 12:17:25 AM
Not to take anything away from your pizza; it's pretty far from the real thing. As has been said above, you are not going to recreate this pizza in a home oven.
Yeah, it's not even remotely a clone, it's more like a Grimaldi "style" pizza.
Title: Re: Grimaldi's Clone Recipe - Can We Figure It Out?
Post by: PizzaEater101 on July 11, 2016, 01:31:03 AM
How ironic is this?  I love this Grimaldi's pizza but I am refraining from going there, not because it's about 30 miles away and LA traffic is a bear, but because I love it so much I don't want to get addicted to it, I kid you not.  Nor do I want to grow tired of it if I go a lot.   I will however go in about two weeks maybe, that's enough space between when I first went and when I go in two weeks. That would be about one month time.  Now the dilemma.  Get a white pizza just to see how theirs is because it looks so good or go with the one I love so much, the one with sauce.  And no, I don't want to get both.  I want to not divide my attention between two totally different pizzas.  I want to fully enjoy one type.  I think I'll go with the sauce then go again in another two weeks and get the white pizza.  Two diff types of pizza in a short time won't be considered Pizza Abuse.


Title: Re: Grimaldi's Clone Recipe - Can We Figure It Out?
Post by: PizzaEater101 on July 11, 2016, 01:32:28 AM
You might try Bel Fiore mozzarella.

Thanks pal for the suggestion.  I'll dry that one out and see how I like it.  Appreciate your suggestion.
Title: Re: Grimaldi's Clone Recipe - Can We Figure It Out?
Post by: hammettjr on July 11, 2016, 07:01:55 AM
Well I tried it and wasn't impressed, i'll stick to other styles.


Baked on steel

This style of pie is worth another try. You didn't specify what you didn't like about your pie, but 2 things that help the flavor tremendously: fresh basil and salt. The salt compensates for the fresh mozz, which has lower sodium than most cheese.

Title: Re: Grimaldi's Clone Recipe - Can We Figure It Out?
Post by: PizzaEater101 on July 11, 2016, 01:42:55 PM
I bake my pizzas in my gas grill. It has an infrared back burner for rotisserie chicken that I turn on at some point during the bake.  Since no coal is involved it won't be like coal pizza but it turns out pretty good.  I have tried the way of putting the slices of cheese down and the sauce in random places and it turned out pretty good. Next time I make one I'll take some pics and put them up here.  I wish I had a coal oven but for now this must be done.
Title: Re: Grimaldi's Clone Recipe - Can We Figure It Out?
Post by: Minolta Rokkor on July 11, 2016, 08:13:30 PM
This style of pie is worth another try. You didn't specify what you didn't like about your pie, but 2 things that help the flavor tremendously: fresh basil and salt. The salt compensates for the fresh mozz, which has lower sodium than most cheese.

Sadly my store ran out of Fresh basil, my dough's salt content is at 3%.

It was good but wasn't exactly what I wanted. I wish the dough was crispy is all. But that's  a personal thing.
Title: Re: Grimaldi's Clone Recipe - Can We Figure It Out?
Post by: Essen1 on July 11, 2016, 10:04:17 PM
Sadly my store ran out of Fresh basil, my dough's salt content is at 3%.

It was good but wasn't exactly what I wanted. I wish the dough was crispy is all. But that's  a personal thing.

MR,

Not sure what your formula was but if you want more crispness increase the water and add some semolina to the dough, perhaps 15% of the total flour.

Regarding your fresh mozza, I think the water content of that particular cheese isn't very well suited for home ovens...

Check out Glutenboy's comment about the Belgioioso Unwrap & Roll fresh mozza:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=43386.msg436571#msg436571
Title: Re: Grimaldi's Clone Recipe - Can We Figure It Out?
Post by: Minolta Rokkor on July 12, 2016, 06:21:51 AM
MR,

Not sure what your formula was but if you want more crispness increase the water and add some semolina to the dough, perhaps 15% of the total flour.

Regarding your fresh mozza, I think the water content of that particular cheese isn't very well suited for home ovens...

Check out Glutenboy's comment about the Belgioioso Unwrap & Roll fresh mozza:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=43386.msg436571#msg436571
This makes complete sense.
Title: Re: Grimaldi's Clone Recipe - Can We Figure It Out?
Post by: Steve on February 13, 2019, 01:53:12 PM
Just adding to this old thread... I've been told that these are the tomatoes they use:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00CEW2SXE/

They add 1 Tbsp of sugar per #10 can (6 lbs. 7 oz.) and mix with an immersion blender.
Title: Re: Grimaldi's Clone Recipe - Can We Figure It Out?
Post by: Pete-zza on February 13, 2019, 03:51:41 PM
Steve,

In about eleven years, apparently not much has changed on the tomato front at Grimaldi's:

Reply 16 at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=3669.msg54056#msg54056

Peter
Title: Re: Grimaldi's Clone Recipe - Can We Figure It Out?
Post by: Yeller on February 17, 2019, 12:21:13 PM
I do know for a fact that the dough is proofed for 2 days. Correct they get almost everything from Roma including garlic powder and tomatoes. I get back in the kitchen from time to time so I will look for the tomatoes, probably San Marz. Usually they use a immersion blender to blend the sauce, very little seasoning if any. The coal is very high grade that is shipped from the East coast. They use Kingsford to fire the oven. I have brought home 2 day proofed balls given to me for my Blackstone with decent results but need closer to 850-900 deg. Hope this helps, we love it there as well + kinda like family now when we go in...
Title: Re: Grimaldi's Clone Recipe - Can We Figure It Out?
Post by: PizzaF1 on January 18, 2020, 05:35:08 AM
I do know for a fact that the dough is proofed for 2 days. Correct they get almost everything from Roma including garlic powder and tomatoes. I get back in the kitchen from time to time so I will look for the tomatoes, probably San Marz. Usually they use a immersion blender to blend the sauce, very little seasoning if any. The coal is very high grade that is shipped from the East coast. They use Kingsford to fire the oven. I have brought home 2 day proofed balls given to me for my Blackstone with decent results but need closer to 850-900 deg. Hope this helps, we love it there as well + kinda like family now when we go in...

The following video confirms the 2 days fermantation.

https://youtu.be/J_EFw4YI-Co

Dan
Title: Re: Grimaldi's Clone Recipe - Can We Figure It Out?
Post by: TXCraig1 on January 18, 2020, 10:47:23 AM
The following video confirms the 2 days fermantation.
They may do a 2-day CF now. They didn't when it was one shop under the bridge. It was a 2-hour dough back then,
Title: Re: Grimaldi's Clone Recipe - Can We Figure It Out?
Post by: jsaras on January 19, 2020, 10:11:06 AM
They may do a 2-day CF now. They didn't when it was one shop under the bridge. It was a 2-hour dough back then,

I think the fermentation times vary depending upon the location and how large their cooler is.  I know for a fact that the bake times vary a lot from location to location.  One of the Las Vegas locations had a bake time that exceeded 10 minutes, which is amazing when you consider that the fire is 2000F
Title: Re: Grimaldi's Clone Recipe - Can We Figure It Out?
Post by: Minolta Rokkor on January 20, 2020, 08:27:33 AM
I'd be willing to take a crack at this style again someday in the far future. Looking back on it, my sauce was too thick and I had too much cheese and sauce.
Title: Re: Grimaldi's Clone Recipe - Can We Figure It Out?
Post by: Yeller on January 25, 2020, 01:57:09 PM
I can confirm that the oven temp is closer to 650F ...I thought they were closer to 800 due to the leoparding.
Title: Re: Grimaldi's Clone Recipe - Can We Figure It Out?
Post by: camwell on February 01, 2020, 08:25:52 AM
I grew up in Chicago, but I lived for many years in New York City. For a while when I was in NYC, Grimaldi's was one of my 3 favorites, partly because their sausage was a lot better than the sausage many other pizzerias served. (Sausage just isn't anywhere near as popular in NYC as it is in Chicago, and many places in NYC don't really prioritize it at all.) I used to travel from Manhattan to Brooklyn, bypassing a zillion other pizzerias available in Manhattan, to go to Grimaldi's. At the time, a lot of native-New Yorker and long-time New York-transplant pizza enthusiasts would snear at Grimaldi's as being only fit for tourists--you'd see comments along those lines in our many Chowhound discussions and in the comments on pizza review sites. Plus, whenever I'd get there, there'd always be a long line (mostly of tourists) you'd have to wait in before you could even place an order. I say all that just to underscore how much I liked their pizzas.

I haven't been back to Grimaldi's in years. Last time I was there, they were still at the original Old Fulton St location in DUMBO, which they left after a lease dispute around 2011, so I don't know what their current pizzas taste like.

One thing I would say is that the crusts from Norma's trip and from one of the Youtube video's ("How We Made It: Grimaldi's" - Uber Eats, July 1, 2019) don't look familiar to me from what I recall of the old Grimaldi's. Neither does the overall view of the toppings from that Youtube clip, although the toppings in Norma's pics somewhat do.
https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=39324.0;attach=221473;image

Something else that this discussion has me wondering about--from watching the Youtube vids & looking at Norma's pictures--is, What is that Polly O bucket doing on the counter? I guess they must use Polly O mozzarella on their pizzas.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXFr7MN8B90
https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=39324.0;attach=237199;image
https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=39324.0;attach=237201;image
Title: Re: Grimaldi's Clone Recipe - Can We Figure It Out?
Post by: jsaras on February 01, 2020, 11:15:07 AM
I grew up in Chicago, but I lived for many years in New York City. For a while when I was in NYC, Grimaldi's was one of my 3 favorites, partly because their sausage was a lot better than the sausage many other pizzerias served. (Sausage just isn't anywhere near as popular in NYC as it is in Chicago, and many places in NYC don't really prioritize it at all.) I used to travel from Manhattan to Brooklyn, bypassing a zillion other pizzerias available in Manhattan, to go to Grimaldi's. At the time, a lot of native-New Yorker and long-time New York-transplant pizza enthusiasts would snear at Grimaldi's as being only fit for tourists--you'd see comments along those lines in our many Chowhound discussions and in the comments on pizza review sites. Plus, whenever I'd get there, there'd always be a long line (mostly of tourists) you'd have to wait in before you could even place an order. I say all that just to underscore how much I liked their pizzas.

I haven't been back to Grimaldi's in years. Last time I was there, they were still at the original Old Fulton St location in DUMBO, which they left after a lease dispute around 2011, so I don't know what their current pizzas taste like.

One thing I would say is that the crusts from Norma's trip and from one of the Youtube video's ("How We Made It: Grimaldi's" - Uber Eats, July 1, 2019) don't look familiar to me from what I recall of the old Grimaldi's. Neither does the overall view of the toppings from that Youtube clip, although the toppings in Norma's pics somewhat do.
https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=39324.0;attach=221473;image

Something else that this discussion has me wondering about--from watching the Youtube vids & looking at Norma's pictures--is, What is that Polly O bucket doing on the counter? I guess they must use Polly O mozzarella on their pizzas.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXFr7MN8B90
https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=39324.0;attach=237199;image
https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=39324.0;attach=237201;image

Iím pretty sure they use Aiello cheese.  The Polly O may be riccotta.
Title: Re: Grimaldi's Clone Recipe - Can We Figure It Out?
Post by: Yeller on February 29, 2020, 10:30:41 AM
I can confirm the sauce that Grimaldi's use is simply cans of whole San Marzano tomatoes then they add sugar and blend with a large immersion blender....That's it...They buy almost everything from Roma..see if I can check on cheese brand. All the meat is Hormel. Check on the flour as well.
Title: Re: Grimaldi's Clone Recipe - Can We Figure It Out?
Post by: Stichus III on March 03, 2020, 09:11:08 AM
I can confirm the sauce that Grimaldi's use is simply cans of whole San Marzano tomatoes then they add sugar and blend with a large immersion blender....That's it...

The sauce is slightly acidic. I would have guessed San Marzano tomatoes and salt.   
Title: Grimaldi's Clone Recipe - Can We Figure It Out?
Post by: jsaras on March 03, 2020, 09:14:04 AM
They use Carmelina tomatoes
Title: Re: Grimaldi's Clone Recipe - Can We Figure It Out?
Post by: Chicago Bob on March 03, 2020, 11:13:46 PM
They use Carmelina tomatoes
salt or sugar added?
Title: Re: Grimaldi's Clone Recipe - Can We Figure It Out?
Post by: jsaras on March 04, 2020, 10:41:10 AM
salt or sugar added?

I donít recall it being an herby sauce.  4-5 grams of salt for a 28 ounce can is always a good start.
Title: Re: Grimaldi's Clone Recipe - Can We Figure It Out?
Post by: Minolta Rokkor on April 06, 2020, 07:12:33 AM
Grimaldi's recently put out a video about their cheese.

Look how thin he slices the mozzarella, this is a big leap forward.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyjxhNzqPIw
Title: Re: Grimaldi's Clone Recipe - Can We Figure It Out?
Post by: amolapizza on April 06, 2020, 07:24:57 AM
Imagine slicing a million pounds of mozzarella that thinly! :D
Title: Re: Grimaldi's Clone Recipe - Can We Figure It Out?
Post by: Stichus III on April 06, 2020, 10:40:45 AM
Great video.

Thicker mozzarella slices would probably overwhelm the thin crust.

At the Brooklyn/DUMBO location you can get up close to the pizza making stations. The thinly sliced mozzarella is in clear view for anyone and everyone to see.  It's the same at the old location, currently Juliana's.

I am indeed surprised to see the mozzarella being sliced (that thinly) by hand.

Title: Re: Grimaldi's Clone Recipe - Can We Figure It Out?
Post by: scott r on April 06, 2020, 11:04:30 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=54&v=J_EFw4YI-Co&feature=emb_logo

The chef says 2 day cold fermentation.  The dough looks to be on the dry side.  I haven't used blooming best in over a decade, but if I remember correctly I would guess at about 58 percent hydration from what I remember and what I see here.   I think at this point with all the locations they are probably using something like full strength or all trumps for flour, but I could be wrong.
Title: Re: Grimaldi's Clone Recipe - Can We Figure It Out?
Post by: Minolta Rokkor on April 06, 2020, 11:30:34 AM
Great video.

Thicker mozzarella slices would probably overwhelm the thin crust.

At the Brooklyn/DUMBO location you can get up close to the pizza making stations. The thinly sliced mozzarella is in clear view for anyone and everyone to see.  It's the same at the old location, currently Juliana's.

I am indeed surprised to see the mozzarella being sliced (that thinly) by hand.
they do by hand for demonstration purposes, they either use a slicer or a vegetable slicer for tomatos but with more blades. 
Title: Re: Grimaldi's Clone Recipe - Can We Figure It Out?
Post by: woodfiredandrew on April 06, 2020, 11:58:14 AM
Great video.

Thicker mozzarella slices would probably overwhelm the thin crust.

At the Brooklyn/DUMBO location you can get up close to the pizza making stations. The thinly sliced mozzarella is in clear view for anyone and everyone to see.  It's the same at the old location, currently Juliana's.

I am indeed surprised to see the mozzarella being sliced (that thinly) by hand.

I used to make about 300 lbs/week mozz for one of the fancy pizzeria and dice it in cubes by hand and that lasted for about 3 months, i started using machine to dice after that..... doing million pounds by hand is a stretch ::)     
Title: Re: Grimaldi's Clone Recipe - Can We Figure It Out?
Post by: Stichus III on April 06, 2020, 04:18:51 PM
they do by hand for demonstration purposes, they either use a slicer or a vegetable slicer for tomatos but with more blades.

Now that makes a lot of sense.
Title: Re: Grimaldi's Clone Recipe - Can We Figure It Out?
Post by: Chicago Bob on April 06, 2020, 11:05:06 PM
Pizza Town.....
Title: Re: Grimaldi's Clone Recipe - Can We Figure It Out?
Post by: PizzaEater101 on April 09, 2020, 10:07:50 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=54&v=J_EFw4YI-Co&feature=emb_logo

The chef says 2 day cold fermentation.  The dough looks to be on the dry side.  I haven't used blooming best in over a decade, but if I remember correctly I would guess at about 58 percent hydration from what I remember and what I see here.   I think at this point with all the locations they are probably using something like full strength or all trumps for flour, but I could be wrong.

I tend to agree with what you say.  the crust seemed to have the characteristics of a lower hydration like the 57 or 58 percent area. 
Title: Re: Grimaldi's Clone Recipe - Can We Figure It Out?
Post by: Yeller on April 12, 2020, 10:49:40 AM
Correct it is a 2 day proof...I can get from them dough at 1 day and put in fridge then bake next day. They run the oven @ 650f
Title: Re: Grimaldi's Clone Recipe - Can We Figure It Out?
Post by: stamina888 on May 30, 2021, 02:30:53 AM
Imagine slicing a million pounds of mozzarella that thinly! :D
Yep.  10 slices per inch the goal.

they do by hand for demonstration purposes, they either use a slicer or a vegetable slicer for tomatos but with more blades.
We slice it by hand everyday.

Thicker mozzarella slices would probably overwhelm the thin crust.
We make pizzas with extra cheese and extra toppings just fine, so it's probably not that.

Other reasons could include surface area (thinner slices melt faster), aesthetics (covering the whole pie with cheese may look better than having big chunks less frequently distributed) and maybe cost.
Title: Re: Grimaldi's Clone Recipe - Can We Figure It Out?
Post by: stamina888 on May 30, 2021, 02:45:51 AM
I can confirm that the oven temp is closer to 650F ...I thought they were closer to 800 due to the leoparding.

The oven temperature at Grimaldi's has a wide variance.  I forget the exact numbers, but it could range anywhere between 550 and 900.  Depending on the time of day: the coals are very hot when they are first put in.  I think coals are added twice (?) a day.  For the first 2 hours after coals were added in, pizzas are cooked on a steel to prevent the bottom from burning.

Also, temperature depends on location in the oven.  It's a big oven.  Coals are in the front, while the back is cooler.  Pizzas start in the back and then are moved up in the front to crisp the sides of the crust.
Title: Re: Grimaldi's Clone Recipe - Can We Figure It Out?
Post by: stamina888 on May 30, 2021, 03:00:41 AM
Interesting how strongly he throws each slice of cheese down, looks deliberate. I'm guessing it's to keep the cheese from moving when he launches the pie?

No.  Most people don't do it like that.  He has very good motor skills to be able to throw it down so quickly while being accurate, and maybe he does it that way for flair too.  It just comes down to whatever method you can do the fastest.
Title: Re: Grimaldi's Clone Recipe - Can We Figure It Out?
Post by: stamina888 on May 30, 2021, 03:10:22 AM
Well I tried it and wasn't impressed, i'll stick to other styles.Baked on steel

This is old, and I'm sorry for the late reply, but I'll comment on this for anyone who is still interested in learning about their pizza.

It looks wet.  Maybe you're using too much sauce and cheese.  Or maybe the oven you're making it in isn't drying them up as much as their oven does.  The cheese slices could be thinner.  The sauce fills the gaps between the cheese.

It seems like your sauce has spices.  Grimaldis sauce doesn't have spices in it.  The spices are in the romano cheese spice blend added to the top of the pizza before cooking.

The crust should be more bubbly than this.  Usually, they get so bubbly that some of the bubbles are poked out with a fork mid-cook.
Title: Re: Grimaldi's Clone Recipe - Can We Figure It Out?
Post by: stamina888 on May 30, 2021, 03:16:15 AM
I would guess at about 58 percent hydration from what I remember and what I see here. 

Take into account that they use a lot of flour after ferment.  Dust the trays.  Flour the dough before stretching.  Stretch on a floured surface.  Flour the peel.  etc.  So the hydration of the recipe differs from that of the final product.
Title: Re: Grimaldi's Clone Recipe - Can We Figure It Out?
Post by: SonVolt on June 01, 2021, 10:43:14 AM
Has anyone settled on dough formulation for Grimaldi's?
Title: Re: Grimaldi's Clone Recipe - Can We Figure It Out?
Post by: stamina888 on June 05, 2021, 09:56:38 AM

For the fresh mozzerella cheese, the rule is:
Regular: 2 fingers apart
Extra Mozz: 1 finger apart
White/4 Cheese: 0 fingers apart (cheese touches but not overlaps)

4 Cheese pizza uses a lot of Cesar Salad cheese, a light dusting of Gorgonzola and the pecorino romano spice blend.

For the tomato sauce, the rule is 2-3-4:
12" gets 2 scoops
16" gets 3 scoops
18" gets 4 scoops

If an order calls for extra sauce, we give +1 scoop.  If it calls for lite sauce, we give -1 scoop (and put extra mozz on the cheese to compensate).

If a pizza has no tomato sauce or pesto, we add a liberal amount of olive oil to compensate.