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Author Topic: Grimaldi's Clone Recipe - Can We Figure It Out?  (Read 20750 times)

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Offline PizzaEater101

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Grimaldi's Clone Recipe - Can We Figure It Out?
« on: July 08, 2016, 12:52:16 PM »
This is not a review although I have great praises for Grimaldi's but there is a review board here if I want to do a proper review.  What I want is that recipe for dough and even the sauce.

I never have been to NYC.  I don't know how Grimaldi's is in NYC because I know when restaurants branch out sometimes it is different in different locations.   I knew about Grimaldi's from seeing it on TV about 5 years ago, maybe Food Wars.   About two years ago Grimaldi's opened up here in So Cal.  I was excited but because of the distance, only about 45 mins without traffic, but about 1.5 hours with LA traffic, and the fact I get busy I never had gone to it until last Saturday.    I went to Venice Beach and although not near Grimaldi's, I was out and about and on that side of town so my friend and I hopped on the freeway (I think 405 FWY) and made our way over there.

I was not sure what to expect but I always wanted some Grimaldi's and some coal oven pizza.   I enjoyed it greatly.  The sauce was excellent.  The crust was unbelievably good.  The whole pizza was incredible to say the least.  I'm not sure if there is a coal vs. wood fire thing going on which gives this an edge because I only had coal this one time and but have had wood fire pizza about a dozen times.  So maybe coal does or does not have to do with it.  I have found that coal leaves a drier cooking/baking environment and doesn't impart a smoke flavor like wood.  Not sure if that has a lot to do with Grimald's vs. other places that utilize wood.

So my question for you, those who are familiar with Grimaldi's would you be able to help in breaking down the formula for the dough and the sauce?  I'm not good at that kind of things and I only had Grimaldi's once so I am not going to figure out on my own.   On Food Wars the owner, she said they just import tomatoes from Italy and don't do much with it.  She couldn't tell what they do.  Whatever they do the sauce was great.  Maybe they are just good San Marazno with a little bit of help from salt? 

Any Grimaldi's fans out there?  I am. I do plan on visiting more even though I don't live near there.  Hey I love Pizzeria Luigi but that is in San Diego, so I only been there twice in about 5 years, so this Grimaldi's in El Segundo is a heck of a lot closer and easy to get to, so I should make it there once or twice a month.  Next I try the "White Pizza".


Thanks,


James

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Re: Grimaldi's Clone Recipe - Can We Figure It Out?
« Reply #1 on: July 08, 2016, 01:28:38 PM »
James;
I can't speak to the Grimaldi's near to you as I have only been to one of the original "Patsy's" at the base of the Brooklyn Bridge, it is indeed a great pizza though a little on the tough/chewy side. I would think that any good New York pizza dough and sauce formula found here should at least get you pointed in the right direction and give you something to work on. Remember, unless you have an oven that is capable of reaching at least 700F it might take some "doing" on your part, but in any case you should be enjoying some great pizzas along the way.
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Offline PizzaEater101

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Re: Grimaldi's Clone Recipe - Can We Figure It Out?
« Reply #2 on: July 08, 2016, 01:40:11 PM »
James;
I can't speak to the Grimaldi's near to you as I have only been to one of the original "Patsy's" at the base of the Brooklyn Bridge, it is indeed a great pizza though a little on the tough/chewy side. I would think that any good New York pizza dough and sauce formula found here should at least get you pointed in the right direction and give you something to work on. Remember, unless you have an oven that is capable of reaching at least 700F it might take some "doing" on your part, but in any case you should be enjoying some great pizzas along the way.
Tom Lehmann/The Dough Doctor

For some reason the dough I had was not tough and chewy.  The waiter says they have a water tank that they make water that mimics NYC water.  So this must mean they alter the water to mimic the mineral content of NYC water.  I really don't think water has a lot to do with dough qualities.  I think that might be a myth.  But if it's true then I would need NYC like water.

I can get my oven up to about 800 degrees F.  Reason is I have a natural gas, gas grill that I bake on and it gets super hot.   But I can't do coal. I'm working on that now.

I'll go with a good dough one that I use but I don't think it's quite right.  I'm just trying to figure out if Grimaldi is high or low hydration.  Only went once and not sure.

Dough Doctor thank you for your input.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Grimaldi's Clone Recipe - Can We Figure It Out?
« Reply #3 on: July 08, 2016, 01:57:39 PM »
James,

The post cited below is from 2008 and things may have changed at Grimaldi's, at least the one I visited, but you may want to read the post anyway. It is at Reply 16 at:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=3669.msg54056#msg54056

I also agree with Tom that the type of oven is very important. It and the dough formulation have to be very compatible.

As for the NY water matter, see this recent thread:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=43853.msg438965#msg438965

Peter

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Re: Grimaldi's Clone Recipe - Can We Figure It Out?
« Reply #4 on: July 08, 2016, 02:10:34 PM »
I'm not doubting Peter's report linked to above that the dough is cold fermented for 24 hours at the chain locations, but I'm pretty sure that is not how they did it at the original location. There simply isn't enough space in that location. I think it's almost a certainty that it was a 2-3 hour dough that was made several times every day at the original location.
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Re: Grimaldi's Clone Recipe - Can We Figure It Out?
« Reply #5 on: July 08, 2016, 02:52:22 PM »
Peter, thank you for the link.  I read your posting, it's very informative.  I'll go with what you suggest with the 58% hydration.

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Re: Grimaldi's Clone Recipe - Can We Figure It Out?
« Reply #6 on: July 08, 2016, 04:04:25 PM »
Again, I can't speak to the chain pizza, but I think the original was high 60's hydration, 1-2% oil, 3%+ salt, and 3% sugar, maybe more.
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Offline scott r

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Re: Grimaldi's Clone Recipe - Can We Figure It Out?
« Reply #7 on: July 08, 2016, 04:34:45 PM »
Hey I know at the original location under the bridge they always had a massive quantity of dough trays sitting out at room temp.   Im with craig... definitely room temp fermentation or at least partial room temp.   Its been a while but I feel like there were at least 100 trays out pushed up against the back wall.    It may be buried in my posts here from 10 years ago, but I did find out what the flour was and I think I put it on the forum.   It was high gluten flour labeled from a miller (probably just a repacked) in new jersey.    It was a bromated flour so all trumps wouldn't be too far off.   good luck!    great pizza!!!

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Offline norma427

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Re: Grimaldi's Clone Recipe - Can We Figure It Out?
« Reply #9 on: July 08, 2016, 08:09:55 PM »
James,

I don't know if you can get any clues from what Grimaldi's uses or not, but posted some photos starting at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=39324.msg392929#msg392929

Norma

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Re: Grimaldi's Clone Recipe - Can We Figure It Out?
« Reply #10 on: July 08, 2016, 08:10:57 PM »
James,

I don't know if you can get any clues from what Grimaldi's uses or not, but posted some photos starting at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=39324.msg392929#msg392929

Norma

Thank you for the link Norma.  I will look it over. 

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Re: Grimaldi's Clone Recipe - Can We Figure It Out?
« Reply #11 on: July 08, 2016, 09:10:09 PM »
One important thing you can see in those pictures is that the cheese (slices of fresh mozz) goes down first with the sauce on top in a very splotchy sort of way.
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Re: Grimaldi's Clone Recipe - Can We Figure It Out?
« Reply #12 on: July 09, 2016, 06:59:27 AM »
Been reading through this, and noticed on the Slice of Brooklyn pizza tour link that the Grimaldi's pizza is referred to as Neapolitan. But everything I'm reading here talks of high-gluten, perhaps AT   Am I mistaken in my understanding that NP needs to be made with 00 flour?


So .055 TF...Can that he handheld, or with a super-hot and fast bake, is this a knife and fork pie, even though HG...Or do you pick them up and eat them like an NY slice?

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Re: Grimaldi's Clone Recipe - Can We Figure It Out?
« Reply #13 on: July 09, 2016, 07:34:30 AM »
Been reading through this, and noticed on the Slice of Brooklyn pizza tour link that the Grimaldi's pizza is referred to as Neapolitan. But everything I'm reading here talks of high-gluten, perhaps AT   Am I mistaken in my understanding that NP needs to be made with 00 flour?


Bill,

Maybe this will explain a little better.

While dining at Giuliana recently, our intrepid Recipe editor Will Budiaman encountered Grimaldi himself, and asked him what the main differences are between a New York and Neapolitan-style pizza. Grimaldiís answer was technical yet extremely simple: According to Grimaldi, the difference between Neapolitan-style pizza and New York-style pizza is that Neapolitan-style pizza uses what's called '0' or '00' flour, which is ground as finely as possible, and is made in a wood-burning oven. "If you use '0' flour to make a pizza and cook it in a coal oven like mine, itíll just burn up," he said.

Grimaldi uses what he calls "American flour," which is most likely just all-purpose, for his New York-style pies, from a special supplier who gives him 1,000 bags a day. He also cooks his pizza in a coal oven, which is illegal in New York but allowed where itís been grandfathered in.


http://www.thedailymeal.com/patsy-grimaldi-difference-between-new-york-and-neapolitan-style-pizza

http://www.grimaldispizzeria.com/our_story.aspx

http://www.pizzatoday.com/departments/features/coal-miners-march-2003/


Norma

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Re: Grimaldi's Clone Recipe - Can We Figure It Out?
« Reply #14 on: July 09, 2016, 08:01:30 AM »
Ah, thanks Norma...so a lotta online misnomers. The word Neapolitan does tend to get tossed around a lot. So I guess it's often just BS...and by that, I don't mean Blackstone or Baking Steel  >:D :-D  So these are what maybe is called here New York Elite, is that right? Very thin, super-fast baked at higher than usual NY temperatures and slightly charred.   Which I love.. Not too different from John's and Patsy's I would think?


In the one Grimaldi's thread that I think may have been from your trip,  I thought the bake looked quite pale. so I was guessing maybe there was some unmalted flour in the dough, but I guess that's not the case?


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Re: Grimaldi's Clone Recipe - Can We Figure It Out?
« Reply #15 on: July 09, 2016, 08:26:54 AM »
thats it peter.... blooming best high gluten flour is what they were using.   thanks for digging that up!

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Re: Grimaldi's Clone Recipe - Can We Figure It Out?
« Reply #16 on: July 09, 2016, 08:35:30 AM »

In the one Grimaldi's thread that I think may have been from your trip,  I thought the bake looked quite pale. so I was guessing maybe there was some unmalted flour in the dough, but I guess that's not the case?

Bill,

The slices of pizza I had at Grimaldi's were quite charred on the bottom crust, especially the one slice. 

You can see on the post by Adam Kuban what he thought of Grimaldi's pies.

http://slice.seriouseats.com/archives/2012/03/grimaldis-bigger-and-better.html

I guess it all depends on who is tending the oven and if they get the pizzas out of the oven at the right time what the top and bottom crusts will look like.

Norma




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Re: Grimaldi's Clone Recipe - Can We Figure It Out?
« Reply #17 on: July 09, 2016, 09:17:40 AM »
thats it peter.... blooming best high gluten flour is what they were using.   thanks for digging that up!
It is hard to imagine that the Grimaldi stores outside of NY would be using the Blooming Best flour, unless the flour is sold under a different name and from a major miller. Grimaldi's is now spread out all over the country.

I did a quick search on the Blooming Best flour and did not find anything, even when using the name of the NJ source that Ron mentioned.

Peter

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Re: Grimaldi's Clone Recipe - Can We Figure It Out?
« Reply #18 on: July 09, 2016, 09:24:31 AM »
Thanks Norma..It's always good to  read Adam's take on things, too. When he says it won't wow the pizza nerds, well, I guess that would be most anyone reading this thread  :-D

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Re: Grimaldi's Clone Recipe - Can We Figure It Out?
« Reply #19 on: July 09, 2016, 11:49:20 AM »
It is hard to imagine that the Grimaldi stores outside of NY would be using the Blooming Best flour, unless the flour is sold under a different name and from a major miller. Grimaldi's is now spread out all over the country.

I did a quick search on the Blooming Best flour and did not find anything, even when using the name of the NJ source that Ron mentioned.

Peter

Peter,

I think Blooming Best is a private brand of A. Oliveri & Sons.

Don't the chain stores use a private brand flour under the Grimaldi's name? I'd be a bit surprised if it's a proprietary formulation however.
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