My crazy idea for starting a mini part time business. Looking for feedback

[Quebert]

Heartily agree, no sauce on ours, just balanced combination of very smooth ricotta, pecorino and whole milk mozzarella, (less is more with the cheeses) as well as freshly slivered garlic, right over the pie, freshly cracked pepper and salt, fresh basil and a generous squeeze of olive oil. I do not prefer the Bechamel type thickened with roux. The Grande soprafinna is so smooth and creamy you can spread it as the base with a spoon right out off the tub, essentially acting as a sauce.

That looks amazing, I always thought I liked the ones with the alfredo'ish sauce because it's all I ever saw around me. Then I had one with a EVOO + garlic base and my mind was blown. Yours looks so good, I'm definitely going to offer that on my menu. I need to track down the ricotta you use. Maybe RD has it, I know they're open to the public so I should call and ask if they carry it.

[Little bean]

That looks amazing, I always thought I liked the ones with the alfredo'ish sauce because it's all I ever saw around me. Then I had one with a EVOO + garlic base and my mind was blown. Yours looks so good, I'm definitely going to offer that on my menu. I need to track down the ricotta you use. Maybe RD has it, I know they're open to the public so I should call and ask if they carry it.

by us restaurant depot does not carry grande, but ours carries pollyo old fashioned which I like as well.

[Quebert]

by us restaurant depot does not carry grande, but ours carries pollyo old fashioned which I like as well.

Well that bites, I can't think of anywhere else around me that might even have it. I Googled for 10 minutes and found 2 places that ship it. One it looks like a $200 minimum order's required. And the other sells it as 6 3lb tubs. Which uh, yeah, would be way too much for me lol. Even 3lbs is a lot seeing how it's not a cheese you can freeze without ruining the texture. I will continue to search Google until I find somewhere that ships 3lb. Or go check the $200 min place to see what else they have. Pretty sure I won't have any better luck finding the Polly O around me. I've never seen that brand anywhere. I'll check with RD about the Polly O

[Little bean]

Well that bites, I can't think of anywhere else around me that might even have it. I Googled for 10 minutes and found 2 places that ship it. One it looks like a $200 minimum order's required. And the other sells it as 6 3lb tubs. Which uh, yeah, would be way too much for me lol. Even 3lbs is a lot seeing how it's not a cheese you can freeze without ruining the texture. I will continue to search Google until I find somewhere that ships 3lb. Or go check the $200 min place to see what else they have. Pretty sure I won't have any better luck finding the Polly O around me. I've never seen that brand anywhere. I'll check with RD about the Polly O

Where are you located? you might have lucking finding a pizzeria near you that would be willing to sell it to you, (pizza people are pretty cool)

[Quebert]

Where are you located? you might have lucking finding a pizzeria near you that would be willing to sell it to you, (pizza people are pretty cool)

Riverside, about 50 miles from LA. I know LA would have a bunch, Orange County too (a bit closer) it looks like Costco has the Polly O, I don't have a membership but I know a lot of people that do.

[Quebert]

BUMP OLD THREAD.

My city has opened up and is allowing licenses for street food vendors.  I have a question that maybe somebody here has some experience and could shed some insight.  I've been looking at wine fridges to use so I could have something dedicated to CF the dough in. But as I thought about it, I'm in So Cal, and when summer rolls around there will be nights where it's in the 80s and even low 90s. If I set up at 8PM and am there until midnight, after a few hours out there those temps would reak havoc on the dough.  So my idea is to get a thermoelectric cooler and add a temperature controller on it.  Then I could use it to CF the dough, and crank it up to have it so I could pull a few out and they'd be ready to use in 10-15 minutes.   I know nothing about dough management, except that when I've made pizzas and it was hot in the house (80'ish) there wasn't a long window between the dough being easy to work with. To where I couldn't stretch or launch it and it was over for the night. 

Does anyone have a setup like this instead of a fridge for fermenting? I'm thinking if I got a big enough cooler I could stack like 6 Doughmate boxes in it and it would be perfect for dough management. And it would hold temp even without it being plugged in, so it would be perfect when I'm out making pizzas and won't have access to electricity.

[Yael]

BUMP OLD THREAD.

My city has opened up and is allowing licenses for street food vendors.  I have a question that maybe somebody here has some experience and could shed some insight.  I've been looking at wine fridges to use so I could have something dedicated to CF the dough in. But as I thought about it, I'm in So Cal, and when summer rolls around there will be nights where it's in the 80s and even low 90s. If I set up at 8PM and am there until midnight, after a few hours out there those temps would reak havoc on the dough.  So my idea is to get a thermoelectric cooler and add a temperature controller on it.  Then I could use it to CF the dough, and crank it up to have it so I could pull a few out and they'd be ready to use in 10-15 minutes.   I know nothing about dough management, except that when I've made pizzas and it was hot in the house (80'ish) there wasn't a long window between the dough being easy to work with. To where I couldn't stretch or launch it and it was over for the night. 

Does anyone have a setup like this instead of a fridge for fermenting? I'm thinking if I got a big enough cooler I could stack like 6 Doughmate boxes in it and it would be perfect for dough management. And it would hold temp even without it being plugged in, so it would be perfect when I'm out making pizzas and won't have access to electricity.

Hi Quebert,

Why won't you use a regular fridge (dedicated to your dough)?
The wine fridge's temp would be around 17°C, right? This can also work of course, but you might need a wider window: in these temperatures, you can only make 24H dough, meaning if you don't sell everything... it'll go to waste.
You could then think about having both: a dedicated fridge at 4°C (4°C at the core of your dough ball so your fermentation is stopped) so they don't move a bit during 2, 3, 4... days, plus a wine fridge where to put the dough some hours -or a night- before baking. Dough would slowly go from 4°C to 15~17°C, you can keep it longer than if it was at RT (meaning you may still use it the next day); and 0.5-1H before baking you take it out and leave it "proof" at your high RT, timing should be good.
I don't know if I'm clear in my explanations. That's one of the solutions I used to apply myself (and one that I teach to my students!).

[Quebert]

HOLY MOLY the documents the city has online for becoming a food vendor are insanely complicated.  I'ma need to hire someone just to explain half the stuff to me.  MFF (mobile food facility) permits are new to my county.  You need about 3 different permits + insurance + some other stuff I don't have and need to learn how to get/do.  When this idea came to me a few years ago all you could do was the home kitchen thingy (forget what it's called) that limits you to 30 meals a day, and pizza wouldn't have qualified because it has meat on it.  You could only sell baked goods without cheese or meat, pre-packaged things and stuff like churros and candy.

I knew this would be an undertaking, but you need to have a law degree to decipher all the codes and #$%^.   Also, all the insurance places I'm looking up online to figure out how much that will cost ask for all your info and call you with a quote.  I just want to see an estimate, I don't trust "as low as $28 a month" I mean I have no idea how much this should cost, but it's gotta be way more than that.  Also I'm not going to have a food truck, which the insurance places I'm finding are listing. Maybe a street vendor needs the same insurance. I left a message with the city so I hope they call me back soon. I want to talk to someone who knows and can break down exactly what I need to do to make this happen.

I'm going to buy an old Ford Transit connect, and maybe a Halo pizza oven so I can make 16" pies, the rotating stone on it would make it much easier to prep other pizzas and help customers instead of worrying about having to turn the pizzas.  Does anyone have a suggestion for a bigger, but still mostly small van that would work here?  The Ram Promaster City look sweet, but are well out of my price range. And an old GMC work van's too big and will probably need tons of work.

There are like 50 street vendors that have popped up in my area over the past few months, mostly Mexican food and a few Hibachi. I haven't seen any pizza ones yet.  The 2 Habichi ones are usually busy and they charge $30'ish, it's a good size plate. But it's nice to know people are willing to drop coin like that from a street vendor.

If anyone reads this and knows, I have a question. I'm looking for modular prep tables, I have an Ooni now, and it's good and you can connect as many as you want together. But I'm looking for ones that have some sort of quick connect. The Ooni you have like 6 bolts. Would love to find a solution where I could BOOM connect 5 tables and BOOM disconnect them when it's time to go.  At least for the start and until I actually am doing well enough I'll be doing everything solo, so I won't have help setting up/taking down.


blah blah blah, I talk too much.    anywho, Redbeads Pizzeria's coming soon, about 2 years late but better late than never lol.

[wotavidone]

BUMP OLD THREAD.

My city has opened up and is allowing licenses for street food vendors.  I have a question that maybe somebody here has some experience and could shed some insight.  I've been looking at wine fridges to use so I could have something dedicated to CF the dough in. But as I thought about it, I'm in So Cal, and when summer rolls around there will be nights where it's in the 80s and even low 90s. If I set up at 8PM and am there until midnight, after a few hours out there those temps would reak havoc on the dough.  So my idea is to get a thermoelectric cooler and add a temperature controller on it.  Then I could use it to CF the dough, and crank it up to have it so I could pull a few out and they'd be ready to use in 10-15 minutes.   I know nothing about dough management, except that when I've made pizzas and it was hot in the house (80'ish) there wasn't a long window between the dough being easy to work with. To where I couldn't stretch or launch it and it was over for the night. 

Does anyone have a setup like this instead of a fridge for fermenting? I'm thinking if I got a big enough cooler I could stack like 6 Doughmate boxes in it and it would be perfect for dough management. And it would hold temp even without it being plugged in, so it would be perfect when I'm out making pizzas and won't have access to electricity.

I don't think I've ever seen a thermoelectric cooler/warmer bigger than about 20 litres. Pretty small. Also, they draw an inordinate amount of battery power. They are sort of intended to be used inside an airconditioned vehicle while it is running. They would flatten a stand alone battery very very quickly, I'm thinking.
Why don't you just ask the other street vendors where they get their insurance? Spend $30, buy some hibachi, tell the vendor its amazing even if it isn't, use that as an ice-breaker to ask him a few questions.

[Quebert]

Hi Quebert,

Why won't you use a regular fridge (dedicated to your dough)?
The wine fridge's temp would be around 17°C, right? This can also work of course, but you might need a wider window: in these temperatures, you can only make 24H dough, meaning if you don't sell everything... it'll go to waste.
You could then think about having both: a dedicated fridge at 4°C (4°C at the core of your dough ball so your fermentation is stopped) so they don't move a bit during 2, 3, 4... days, plus a wine fridge where to put the dough some hours -or a night- before baking. Dough would slowly go from 4°C to 15~17°C, you can keep it longer than if it was at RT (meaning you may still use it the next day); and 0.5-1H before baking you take it out and leave it "proof" at your high RT, timing should be good.
I don't know if I'm clear in my explanations. That's one of the solutions I used to apply myself (and one that I teach to my students!).

I'm actually going to go with a regular fridge, Samsung has one where the top freezer can be switched to being a fridge too. So I should have enough room to make dough for 2 nights of business.  My plans are to be open just Friday & Saturday nights, so any dough I make will be good for 2nd night. Of course I'm not factoring in if I sell out the 1st night or I have a bunch left over. But until I'm actually doing it all I can do is estimate. My idea was 60 dough balls, and sell 30 a night, I'm not trying to be open for 10 hours a day, so 3-4 hours a night and 30 pizzas a night (assuming I have the customers) seems resonable.

I don't think I've ever seen a thermoelectric cooler/warmer bigger than about 20 litres. Pretty small. Also, they draw an inordinate amount of battery power. They are sort of intended to be used inside an airconditioned vehicle while it is running. They would flatten a stand alone battery very very quickly, I'm thinking.
Why don't you just ask the other street vendors where they get their insurance? Spend $30, buy some hibachi, tell the vendor its amazing even if it isn't, use that as an ice-breaker to ask him a few questions.

Yeah, that was kinda a hair-brained idea for sure, I gotta learn a lot about dough management, but I suppose the best way will be to actually start doing it and learn as I go. A big cooler with a few ice packs should keep the dough from becoming a blob but not keeping it too cold to work with. The warm So Cal summer nights when I have dough out after 3-4 hours it gets really sticky and super hard to work with. And I only do 8-10 pizzas, so if I'm trying to do 30, yeah I need to change my methods lol.  Also good idea asking someone who does it, sometimes I overlook the simplest solutions.

[Essen1]

Just saw this...

Everyone gave you great advice.

Here's a little rundown of what CA and most Counties require under Bill SB 946:

1. Permit to operate.

This will only be issued if you can show proof of a health department inspection, a fire marshall's inspection certificate and a Commissary Kitchen Agreement, a form of legal entity, such as sole proprietorship, LLC, S Corp and a valid business license.

A fictitious name, DBA as....

Insurance: Liability & regular


2. Food Manager's License.

As an Owner, you'll need a Food Manager's Certificate, not to be confused with the Food Handlers license!

4. Plans

Take measurements of your proposed operation, whether it's a pizza cart, a tent, a truck or whatever you want.

You need to provide a detailed plan of your operation. That includes drawings of the size of the tent/cart/truck or whatever you plan on using, to scale of course.

It'll include a required list of sanitation devices, such as a portable hand washing station, towels, soap, as well as items that hold foods at the required temperature, such as meats & cheese.

5. Electricity

You need to power your operation, right!?

A quiet, portable generator will be just fine, depending on the wattage your equipment uses. So check first!

Battery packs and 12Vs won't last long.

6. Prep tables

You might get away with foldable prep tables but the Health department might feel different about it. Be on the safe side and order some food safe stainless steel folding tables of off webrestaurant. Saves a lot of hassle.

7. Insurance

Gotta have it. No insurance, no slinging pies.

There are several lower cost options available but definitely shop around.

8. Holding equipment

The Health department wants to see that you're capable, or your equipment that is, of  holding foods at their required temperature for your stated hours of operation.

Which means, that you either need a commercial prep rail connected to a generator, or something that can keep toppings cool with ice packs. Ice packs are no guarantee, though.

I'd personally go the route of generator and cooled unit, rather than depend on ice packs.

Although, Refreeze ice packs are exceptional!

Anyway, that's all I have for now.

I wish you well.

[Essen1]

Forgot to mention that you will most likely be classified as a Kiosk, not a Mobile Food Faciliy, which has its own perks of pros and cons.

As a Kiosk, you'll have a little bit more freedom.

Tell us about your set up.

Tent? Cart? Food truck? Simple griddle cart? Full blown Pizza oven?

[Quebert]

Forgot to mention that you will most likely be classified as a Kiosk, not a Mobile Food Faciliy, which has its own perks of pros and cons.

As a Kiosk, you'll have a little bit more freedom.

Tell us about your set up.

Tent? Cart? Food truck? Simple griddle cart? Full blown Pizza oven?

Holy smokes you obviously know everything here lol.  As for your previous post, what exactly will the health department have to inspect? When I thought I could do this with a home kitchen setup, they were going to have to come check out my house. Which makes sense, but here I'll be doing it all outdoors, and all the cooking will be on location. And the location will maybe move around until I find a good parking lot. I'd have no problem with them coming to see my setup, but if they need to inspect before I get approved for a license (makes sense) but I don't have a setup yet because I'm not doing it.  Seems like a catch 22.

It's going to be a tent.  A couple 10x10 EZ Up canopies in a parking lot of a business.  I plan to use my Roccbox, but if the Halo turns out to be a good oven one of those.  Nothing big or fancy. I'll have a couple Stainless Steel Ooni tables for prep/cooking and one to take orders and have customers pay and one for them to get peppers and seasonings for their pizza.  You also mentioned a generator in your other post. *IF* I get one, it'll be a Jackery Power Station. Which is battery powered and would be way more than sufficient for my needs.  I'll have some LED lights around the EZ Ups.  And *IF* I end up getting a Halo, I'll do 16" and sell slices, so I'd need one of those windowed food wamers.  But the Jackery I'm looking at will power a Fridge + TV + a few other things for 24 hours, so it would be able to handle the 2 things I'll have pretty easy.  I'll be using a Square Terminal to take card payments, it's rechargeable so no power needed there.

I'm not going to do what the other food stands I've been to do, but the 3 I go to regularly. None are up to specs as far as I see for things like keeping food at a safe temp.  The Mexican one I went to last night, all the meats and cheeses are in metal food pans with no ice and they're not the plug-in heated ones. I'm guessing a health inspector would fine them or temporarily shut them down. But then again I don't know but I do know I want to do things properly. I want to buy Carlisle Coldmaster food pans for the cheese/pepperoni and other toppings. You put them in the freezer and they turn blue when cold enough to be food safe.  They stay blue and turn white when the temps no longer safe.  I don't know if they're health inspector approved, so before I potentially waste $300 on them. I'll ask whoever I speak to on the phone.  They seem great because the color will instantly indicate whether it's cold enough or not.  And they sell them on webstaurantstore.com and a bunch of other restaurant stores so it's not some random thing I found on Aliexpress. I don't want to have to run a big, expensive unit with a built-in fridge, I want to have the simplest setup that doesn't take up a ton of space.  Hopefully, these containers are good enough. If not, I'll look into other options.  But like I said, I've been to a bunch of vendors and haven't seen any with an elaborate setup. And my 2 regular ones have been there for 6'ish months. I'll go ask and maybe I can find out if they're cutting corners and just hoping they don't get caught lol.

I definitely need to talk with whoever at the city runs this stuff, but before I do I'd have to have a better general understanding so I know better what to ask. Thank you for your posts, you have helped me a ton already.

[Jenf_us]

Some states actually allow pizzas made out of a non licensed kitchen?  My state barely allows stuff to made out of a licensed kitchen…lol

[Essen1]

Some states actually allow pizzas made out of a non licensed kitchen?  My state barely allows stuff to made out of a licensed kitchen…lol

California does not allow pizzas being sold out of a home kitchen.

https://www.cdph.ca.gov/Programs/CEH/DFDCS/Pages/FDBPrograms/FoodSafetyProgram/CottageFoodOperations.aspx

Scroll down to Giudelines and look at the PDF of allowed foods.

Pizza requires most toppings to be refrigerated at a proper temperature. Most home refers don't do that. They are not as efficient as a commercial refrigeration.

So, in short...no, you cannot sell pizza out of your home. At least not legally. If you want to fly under the radar, do so at your own risk. If the first person that gets sick sues your pants off, don't complain.

Quebert,

No, I certainly don't know everything but I've worked in the food industry and am familiar with what's required. Plus, I'm also around for a little while on this forum.

Forgot to mention that you also need a Commissary Kitchen Agreement. Without that, you won't be able to go anywhere.

It has to be signed by the owner of the rental kitchen and submitted with all your papers to the county AND city you plan to operate in. The Health Department will then come out and inspect the commissary facilities before giving its stamp of approval.

Then the HD will look at your set up. And so will the Fire Marshall and, perhaps the Sheriff, to make sure your set-up doesn't interfere with pedestrians or cyclists.

You also need to check in with the Zoning Department of your City to see which permit and fee your proposed business will fall under.

Btw, I hold both...a Food Manager's Certificate and a Food Handlers license.

Good luck.

[Pizza_Not_War]

https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2021-12-13/editorial-legalize-street-food

[Quebert]

Some states actually allow pizzas made out of a non licensed kitchen?  My state barely allows stuff to made out of a licensed kitchen…lol

I'm in Riverside CA, they recently started allowing food people to get a Sidewalk Vending Permit. I don't know any of the details, but I know there are about 30 street food vendors that have popped up in my city and a lot of food trucks.  The vendors have canopies and propane grills and make food in a parking lot somewhere.  And there's a web site the city has that has a list of approved vendors.  We have a lot of Mexican food ones, a few Habachi and a couple BBQ spots. Now this is just me assuming as I haven't actually talked to the person who handles the permits. But if people are legally selling pulled pork, burgers and tacos they're making in a parking lot somewhere. Pizzas should be fine. Maybe I'm wrong but from what I've read, nothing seems to be off limits foodwise as long as you meet the requirements for safty. It use to strictly be packaged foods you didn't make yourself or things like cookies or Churros. A Sushi food truck just opened up the street from me.  And I know the ones I go to, the food's prepared 100% there, so there's no renting of a commercial kitchen. Which is what they use to require for any scratch made food.  Apparently, Riverside county was the 1st in the country to move to such relaxed rules, where it use to be impossible to get a permit to do food outside of prepackaged.  And if when I talk to the city I find out for whatever reason making Pizzas isn't acceptable. I'll open a smash burger stand, I know burgers definitely fall within the spectrum of approved food.

They also allow food to be made in your own kitchen and you can sell it out of your front yard.  There's a pretty good BBQ guy in my area.  He makes everything in his backyard and sells it off his driveway one weekend a month.  I think to get a permit for that you have to have a super exceptional kitchen, one that 99.9% of people wouldn't come close to qualifying.  If I had to use a commercial kitchen, pizzas definitely wouldn't work out. So I'm hoping I can get a thumbs up like all of the other vendors I see around town. I guess I need to go chop it up with a few as they're doing it and will have insight on how much work it is.  This is what my city says on the web site

TRANSPORTATION DEPARTMENT SIDEWALK VENDING REQUIREMENTS

 

How to get a Sidewalk Vending Permit

Riverside County Ordinance 853 requires sidewalk vendors to have a valid Sidewalk Vending Permit with the County of Riverside Transportation Department.
To apply for a Sidewalk Vending Permit, provide the following:
Completed application and $79 permit fee,
CA Driver's License or ID card, individual taxpayer ID number, or Social Security Card (this information is not a public record and will remain confidential),
Riverside County Business Registration Certificate,
Valid Mobile Food Facility Permit from Riverside County Environmental Health, if selling unpackaged or perishable food.

The only thing that sounds like it could be a hassle would be the MFF permit. But they do allow unpackaged food and I know they don't require a commercial kitchen, so there is hope my pizza operation can become a reality yet.

[Essen1]

The only thing that sounds like it could be a hassle would be the MFF permit. But they do allow unpackaged food and I know they don't require a commercial kitchen, so there is hope my pizza operation can become a reality yet.

MFF is a classification that most likely won't apply to you.

However, you still need a Commissary Kitchen Agreement, whether you're an MFF or Stationary. Rules are different from County to County, so check on that. We're in CA after all.

One more thing,...

 If you're planning to use a tent, make sure it has ALL the required flame hazard & flame retardant certifications the FM will require from you.

[Andrew t]

Essen has some good points and info.

It's really not that hard but the information can get confusing.

I suggest you lok for a SBDC- small business development center in your area.

In my area there are at least 4.

I worked with a local non-profit incubator, took a 10 week (once night per week) class that walked through all the details and support me after. I came into it with 25 years as a chef but knew I needed support. I've been legal and operating as a Side Hustle 2-4 events per month since March 2020 (got my permit the day the county shut down).

Not sure the details of the Riverside policy but the MEKO- micro enterprise kitchen operations counties do allow pizza from home operations. Cottage food liciences do not.

I recomend you not over think too much of the set up and such. I've wasted countless hours i my head and many $$ trying to get the perfect set-up. Less is more, and you'd be suprised what you can do with little.

Last thing- I use FLIP online insurance $300/year. It's a very popular source for mobile operators.

Good luck 

[Quebert]

Essen has some good points and info.

It's really not that hard but the information can get confusing.

I suggest you lok for a SBDC- small business development center in your area.

In my area there are at least 4.

I worked with a local non-profit incubator, took a 10 week (once night per week) class that walked through all the details and support me after. I came into it with 25 years as a chef but knew I needed support. I've been legal and operating as a Side Hustle 2-4 events per month since March 2020 (got my permit the day the county shut down).

Not sure the details of the Riverside policy but the MEKO- micro enterprise kitchen operations counties do allow pizza from home operations. Cottage food liciences do not.

I recomend you not over think too much of the set up and such. I've wasted countless hours i my head and many $$ trying to get the perfect set-up. Less is more, and you'd be suprised what you can do with little.

Last thing- I use FLIP online insurance $300/year. It's a very popular source for mobile operators.

Good luck

I really, really appericate this. I'm going to call the SBDC tomorrow and ask a few questions. I'm nowhere near far along enough to make an appointment yet. But that's an organization I didn't even know existed.  And as far as overthinking too much of the set up, no worries. I'm going to be a super budget, I want to do things correctly but I don't have money to do things big or fancy. Hell I'll be lucky if I can afford the bare minimum lol. And if the document from the city I just read is right, it said I'll need powered refrigeration. Which is weird because the 2 street places I eat at don't have that, and both serve meat.  Again, I'm clueless so I got a lot of questions I need to ask when I get in touch with someone from the city. If I end up needing all that, it'll definitely be well out of my budget so the idea will die.  But I'm sure I'm just not understanding the documents I've read.

As for the insurance only costing you $300 a year - wow, I just assumed it would be $100+ a month easy.  Hopefully, it won't be $10,000 for all equipment to get my idea up to code.    I know a bunch of the street vendors I see aren't operating legally, but with my luck I'd definitely be the one to get checked and popped if I was renegading it lol. 

Anywho, I'll post back when the city breaks down to me bmy chances of making this happen. Heck maybe somebody from the area looking to setup a food cart will find this thread and it will be useful to me.