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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Jets pizza
« Reply #220 on: February 18, 2016, 08:16:37 PM »
Over the past two weeks or so, I sent two emails to Jet's inquiring as to certain aspects of their nutrition information as set forth for a small square cheese pizza. The Jet's nutrition information is given at http://jetspizza.com/nutrition/category/13.

The first question I asked was if the Cholesterol number given for the small square cheese pizza was still too high inasmuch as I understood that Jet's uses about six ounces of Grande low moisture part skim mozzarella cheese for that particular pizza. The Grande Nutrition Facts for that cheese can be seen at http://www.grandecheese.com/products/Pages/Product_Spec.aspx?ProductMasterID=16. Apparently, some Jet's stores use a shredded Grande cheese but the Nutrition Facts are the same as for the loaf cheese. The second question I asked was if the Jet's nutrition information was for baked or unbaked pizzas. As a side note, when I looked into that question for the Papa John's pizzas, I was told that their nutrition information was for baked pizzas (see Reply 212 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=6758.msg107166;topicseen#msg107166). I also seem to recall that I called Pizza Hut on the same question and was told that their nutrition information was also for baked pizzas.

When I did not hear back from Jet's within the two-day window to respond, after the passage of about two weeks I followed up with another email that I sent to the general information part of Jet's rather than to the Nutrition department to which I had sent the two previous emails. Today, I received the following reply:

Hello Peter,

Thank you for emailing us regarding your nutrition questions. The nutritional values for pizza are based on being unbaked. And the amount of cheese that goes on a small square cheese pizza is slightly more than that. That nutritional value that you are seeing is correct. These values are all formulated using our nutritional software and usually will round up in a situation due to the guidelines required by the FDA. We hope this answers your questions for you. Please feel free to email us back with any further questions or comments.

Thank you,

Have a great day!


It isn't entirely clear whether the above statement means that more than six ounces of Grande cheese are used, so I may follow-up on that matter. Also, I will mention that the FDA rules do not call for only rounding up numbers. They can be rounded down also.

As I previously mentioned, according to the Jet's nutrition information, a small Jet's unbaked square cheese pizza weighs about 24 ounces. We know that the dough for making that pizza weighs 12 ounces, as previously discussed. So, that leaves about 12 ounces for the cheese and sauce and, possibly, the oil that goes into the pan. But there is a yawning gap between the number for Total Fat that I calculated for the Jet's small square chees pizza and the number shown in the Jet's nutrition information. And that gap cannot be closed, or come anywhere near closing, by simply using a bit more cheese, if that is what Jet's is saying. The only way that I can see to close that gap is to use around seven or eight teaspoon of corn oil in the pan.

I will report further if more information becomes available. But in the meantime, members who decide to use the dough formulation set forth at Reply 194 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=8247.msg413711#msg413711 might want to use about 6 ounces of low moisture part skim mozzarella cheese and about five ounces of pizza sauce. I will leave to the members to decide how much corn oil to use in the pan.

Peter


Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Jets pizza
« Reply #221 on: February 24, 2016, 05:08:25 PM »
In my last post, I indicated that I was going to follow up with Jet's on the cheese amount, more specifically, to get clarification on that amount, given that I used 6 ounces of cheese as my estimate of the amount of cheese used on a small Jet's square cheese pizza. The six ounces number came from a Jet's employee who made a small square cheese pizza for member Tommy Nott.

The follow-up email to Jet's yielded the following response:

Yes, there is more cheese than that on that specific pizza. The nutritional information displayed on our website for that pizza is correct. Any information more than that is proprietary.

That reply was helpful on two scores. More specifically, it increases the numbers for the Total Fat and Cholesterol. After doing several calculations, I came to the conclusion that 7.5 ounces of the Grande low moisture part skim mozzarella cheese (http://www.grandecheese.com/products/Pages/Product_Spec.aspx?ProductMasterID=16) yields a Cholesterol number that is quite close to what Jet's reports in it nutrition information (http://jetspizza.com/nutrition/category/13), and even more closely if I unround the Grande's Cholesterol number. When I thought about it, 7.5 ounces sounds reasonable and, in fact, is about what Buddy's uses on its small square cheese pizza but using brick cheese rather than mozzarella cheese. Using 7.5 ounces of mozzarella cheese also reduces the Total Fat gap that I mentioned in my last post. How much that gap is closed depends on whose numbers are used to do the calculations. For example, I used Grande's numbers and also those for a generic low moisture part skim mozzarella cheese as given at the NutritionData.Self.com website at http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/dairy-and-egg-products/28/2. I also unrounded some of the numbers, inasmuch as I believe that it is most likely actual numbers that are used by Jet's to create its nutrition information. This analysis suggests that the amount of corn oil that Jet's uses in its 8" x 10" pans to make a square cheese pizza is about 5-6 teaspoons, with a weight of about one ounce.

Now, maybe a revised set of numbers can be set forth for a clone of a small Jet's square cheese pizza.

We know the dough ball weight for the above size of pizza is 12 ounces. That is the dough quantity from the formulation set forth at Reply 194 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=8247.msg413711#msg413711. If we use 7.5 ounces of Grande low moisture part skim mozzarella cheese (or its nutritional equivalent), 3.5 ounces of pizza sauce, and one ounce of corn oil, we get a total of 24 ounces. That is about the weight of an unbaked small Jet's square pizza as given by Jet's at its website. There is perhaps a little wiggle room in those numbers since we are working with numbers that aren't exact, just as there is wiggle room in how a worker assembles a pizza to be baked.

Peter

Offline segfault

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Re: Jets pizza
« Reply #222 on: February 26, 2016, 11:06:21 PM »
Hi Pete, 

7.5 oz cheese seems like a lot.  Would using Kroger low moisture part skim mozzarella vs Grande make a huge difference?? (see pics)

The amount of oil seems on point though, very crispy like jets!  Couldn't really say if the amount of sauce seemed correct due to the cheese.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2016, 09:26:01 AM by Pete-zza »

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Jets pizza
« Reply #223 on: February 27, 2016, 10:16:05 AM »
segfault,

Thank you for posting your results. I have never had a Jet's pizza so I do not have any way of knowing how close your version compared with a real Jet's square cheese pizza. I would expect some taste differences since you would not be using the same ingredients as Jet's uses to make its pizzas. Your pizza looks very good but can you tell us how your pizza stacked up against a real Jet's square cheese pizza? It also would help to know what type and brand of flour you used, the makeup of the sauce you used, whether the Kroger cheese you used was in block or shredded form (which usually has fillers, preservatives and other things other than the basic cheese), the type and amount of oil you used in the pan, and how specifically you baked your pizza, including bake temperature and time, oven rack position, whether a pizza stone was used or not, etc. It might also help if you have any tips or suggestions or anything else that you think others might want to know if they plan to try a clone of the Jet's pizza.

With respect to the Kroger cheese you used, from what I found at a nutrition website at http://www.caloriecount.com/calories-kroger-cheese-i244780, it appears that the Nutrition Facts for the Kroger low moisture part skim mozzarella cheese are identical to the Nutrition Facts for the Grande low moisture part skim Grande that Jet's supposedly uses. You can see the Grande Nutrition Facts at http://www.grandecheese.com/products/Pages/Product_Spec.aspx?ProductMasterID=16. But the similarity of the Nutrition Facts does not mean that the two cheeses will taste the same, especially if the cheese you used was shredded and included anti-caking, preservatives and other ingredients besides the cheese. Also, Grande is one of the few cheese producers that makes shredded versions of their mozzarella cheeses without those other ingredients.

As for the amount of cheese you used, that is something you may want to experiment with to find what works best for you. As you know, I was trying to balance everything out such that the total weight of the unbaked clone of the Jet's small square cheese pizza came out to about 24 ounces. Pizza makers have a fair amount of latitude on matters such as total weight but it is also possible that there are deviations at the store level from the Jet's recommended amounts of cheese and other ingredients to use. For example, it is well known that franchisees will often use less cheese than they are supposed to (while also avoiding detection) because that is the easiest way to reduce the cost of ingredients used, especially since cheese is the most expensive part of a typical pizza. They may still have to pay the franchisor (Jet's in this case) royalties based on sales but they will still pocket more on the profits side. 

Peter



Offline segfault

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Re: Jets pizza
« Reply #224 on: February 27, 2016, 12:26:37 PM »
Hi Peter,

The ingredients iím using right now are more a function of what I have on hand, but Iím working on finding Grande cheese.  I called Grande and inquired where I might purchase their cheese.  They told me they donít sell retail, but Gordon Food Service is an authorized distributor in the Detroit area, and my best bet is to check out one of their stores.  So thatís on my list of things to do today.  Iím still searching for where to buy Stanislaus for my sauce, and in the mean time, iíve just been using Dei Fratelli Tomato Puree (28oz) and adding a mixture of spices.  As for the flour, I am using King Arthur - Sir Lancelot (high gluten bread flour)Ö Iíll also be switching this up based on the discoveries you have made in that area.  The Kroger cheese was just their stock 8oz bag of shredded low moisture mozzarella.

I would say the amount of oil used (2T) is spot on.  I think the amount of ďcrunchĒ in the dough is comparable to a real Jetís pizza.  The flavor of the sauce i use isnít comparable to jets, but I think nailing the quantity is the first step.  The amount of cheese used (7.5oz) seemed high.  I think iíll order a Jets 8x10 cheese only pizza today and deconstruct.  See how well i can separate the cheese from the sauce.  Iíll post my results.

My process (8x10 cheese only)

Weigh dough ingredients:

Flour - 200.92g
H20 - 130.6g
ADY (Fleischmann, ADY) - 0.77g
Salt (Kosher) - 3.52g
Sugar  - 4.4g

Microwave H20 to get to about 100deg F.
Add ADY, salt, sugar to mixing bowl
Add water
Add flour

Mix on low until incorporated (~2min)
Mix on 4 (medium) for 8 min.

In my most recent attempt, i threw the dough ball on my scale, and it was 11.9oz after mixing.

I put the dough in a plastic container, and proof it in the oven for 1 hour @ 100deg.  After an hour, i add 2T corn oil to my 8x10 blue steel pan, and use a brush to distribute the oil on the sides and bottom.  I then transfer the dough to the pan, and do my best to stretch it to fill the pan.  I cover the pan with a wet towel and put it back in the oven for 1 hour @ 100deg.  I then remove it from the oven, and let it stand at room temperature until Iím ready to make a pizza.

To cook the pizza, i preheat my oven to 550 degrees.  I use the regular ďBakeĒ settingÖ (vs convection)
I have my rack set in the middle of the oven.  No pizza stone, I place the 8x10 pan directly on the rack.

For this latest attempt, i added 3.5oz sauce, and 7.5oz cheese.  Next attempt iíll reduce the cheese to 3.75ozÖ or iíll use the amount from my jetís ďexperimentĒ

I find that the pizza needs to be cooked for a total of 10 to 12 minutes.  However, I always watch the pizza, and when the cheese starts to brown up, i put aluminum foil over the pizza, and let it continue to cook.

For this attempt, after 7 minutes, the cheese was starting to brown, so I quickly placed foil over my pan, and let it continue to cook for the full 10 to 12 minutes.

After cooking, i take the pizza out and let it cool in the pan for 5 to 10 minutes.  I find if i let it rest in the pan, itís easier to release from the pan.  To release from the pan, i use a plastic spatula, slide it around the edges, and then ďpopĒ it out onto a cooling rack.  I let it cool for another 5 to 10 min, transfer to cutting board and slice it up.

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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Jets pizza
« Reply #225 on: February 27, 2016, 01:56:39 PM »
I think iíll order a Jets 8x10 cheese only pizza today and deconstruct.  See how well i can separate the cheese from the sauce.  Iíll post my results.
segfault,

If you do decide to get a Jet's cheese pizza would you mind taking the dimensions of the pizza? If you ask them to leave the pizza uncut, then that might make the measuring easier. I'd ask you to also weigh the pizza but I wouldn't want you to do that if it will spoil the eating experience.

Peter

Offline segfault

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Re: Jets pizza
« Reply #226 on: February 29, 2016, 11:36:39 PM »
Hi Pete,

Sorry for not getting to the Jet's pizza experiment.  Life with kids sometimes alters plans :)  However, they will be at daycare tomorrow, and after i pick up my order of Grande cheese from GFS, I plan on ordering a Jets pizza for deconstruction!


Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Jets pizza
« Reply #227 on: March 01, 2016, 07:52:35 AM »
segfault,

Do what you have to do and don't worry about this. When you are ready, we will continue.

Peter

Offline segfault

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Re: Jets pizza
« Reply #228 on: March 01, 2016, 01:55:14 PM »
Comments below

Offline segfault

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Re: Jets pizza
« Reply #229 on: March 01, 2016, 01:57:02 PM »
Comments below

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Offline segfault

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Re: Jets pizza
« Reply #230 on: March 01, 2016, 02:03:56 PM »
Hi Pete,

So I ordered a small deep dish cheese only pizza from Jets today.  I asked them not to cut it for easier measure/weight.

It took me 5 minutes to get from pizza shop to home.

The pizza weighed 21.3407oz. 
Top of pizza dimensions were roughly 8.75" x 7"
Bottom of pizza dimensions were roughly 8.5" x 6.5"

I put the pizza in my small 8x10 blue steel pan, and it fit like a glove..... which i would expect, i ordered those blue steel pans years ago because i read that is what jets uses :)

It was difficult to get the cheese off, i certainly didn't recover 100% of the cheese, and there was some sauce mixed in, but that weighed 4.7oz
The sauce, also difficult to separate, was 0.5oz (but i missed a lot)

I took a bunch of pictures (posted above) of my "science" experiment :)







Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Jets pizza
« Reply #231 on: March 01, 2016, 05:52:25 PM »
segfault,

Thank you very much for the measurements that you took on the Jet's small square cheese pizza that you purchased. If you look at the material I quoted in Reply 79 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=8247.msg137559;topicseen#msg137559, it appears that your measurements of the dimensions of the pizza are similar to what member PizzaHog got for a small square pizza that he purchased from Jet's, and also what Cloverleaf reported for the size of their pizzas. As for the weight of the pizza that you got, it is about what member Tommy Nott got on two separate occasions. On one occasion, he was told by the worker that made the pizza that the amount of mozzarella cheese used was 5 ounces. On the other occasion, the worker who made the pizza said that the amount of cheese was 6 ounces. Jet's corporate now tells us that the amount is more than 6 ounces.

I might add that any weight loss during transit from the Jet's store to your home five minutes away should be minor and inconsequential. 

It is hard to determine weights of things from a baked pizza because there are losses due to evaporation of moisture in the dough, the sauce and the cheese, and those losses can vary depending on the size of the pizza, the amounts of sauce and cheese, and the bake method, the bake temperature and the bake duration. But, overall, a weight loss of about 12-13% for a Jet's small square cheese pizza seems to be typical. That is something that you might test on your own Jet's clone sometime to see if that percent is also typical of your clone baked in your own oven.

I am also curious as to whether your Jet's pizza seemed oily in any way, and maybe indicative of the use of a lot of oil in the pan.

Peter

Offline segfault

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Re: Jets pizza
« Reply #232 on: March 02, 2016, 08:39:35 PM »
I am also curious as to whether your Jet's pizza seemed oily in any way, and maybe indicative of the use of a lot of oil in the pan.

I feel like Jets has some inconsistency in how oily their pizza is.  The cheese pizza i bought yesterday didn't feel oily.  I have been adding 2T of corn oil per your suggestions, and I feel like that is pretty close.

I picked up some Grande cheese from GFS and made another attempt at a small cheese.  I used 5.6oz cheese, and 4oz sauce.  After cooking, it weighed in at 1lb 4.2oz.  About an oz short of the jets i purchased recently.  I feel like there could have been more cheese, so i'm going to attempt 6.5oz cheese and 4oz sauce.

Having never used Grande cheese, i have to admit, it's amazing what a difference it makes. 





Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Jets pizza
« Reply #233 on: March 02, 2016, 08:56:59 PM »
segfault,

Were there any Nutrition Facts to accompany the Grande low moisture, part skim mozzarella cheese you purchased from GFS and, if so, can you give me the numbers for the nutrients listed on the label?

Peter

Offline segfault

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Re: Jets pizza
« Reply #234 on: March 02, 2016, 10:43:24 PM »
took a picture of the label

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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Jets pizza
« Reply #235 on: March 03, 2016, 07:47:41 AM »
segfault,

Thank you for posting the Grande Nutrition Facts. They are the same as Grande posts at its website, at:

http://www.grandecheese.com/products/Pages/Product_Spec.aspx?ProductMasterID=16

The Grande Nutrition Facts are the same for all forms of the low moisture part skin mozzarella cheese, including loaf, diced and shredded.

Peter


Offline jsperk

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Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Jets pizza
« Reply #237 on: March 03, 2016, 11:43:53 AM »
jsperk,

Thank you for the links. However, interestingly, to the best of my knowledge Jet's has never touted its square pizzas as being Detroit-style, although maybe they have acquiesced in others calling it that style rather than trying to correct them. I have theorized that Jet's does not want to limit its style to a particular regional area when their plans call for franchising their business all across the company.

As an aside, the recipes at the Washington Post are indicated to be adaptations of a recipe by Shawn Randazzo of the Detroit Style Pizza Company. That means that the recipe is not a scaled down version of a recipe he is using.

Peter

Offline jsperk

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Re: Jets pizza
« Reply #238 on: March 03, 2016, 12:00:06 PM »
jsperk,

Thank you for the links. However, interestingly, to the best of my knowledge Jet's has never touted its square pizzas as being Detroit-style, although maybe they have acquiesced in others calling it that style rather than trying to correct them. I have theorized that Jet's does not want to limit its style to a particular regional area when their plans call for franchising their business all across the company.

As an aside, the recipes at the Washington Post are indicated to be adaptations of a recipe by Shawn Randazzo of the Detroit Style Pizza Company. That means that the recipe is not a scaled down version of a recipe he is using.

Peter

Thanks for the info. I'll be using the recipe on reply 230 before trying the one from the Washington post. Hopefully tomorrow but all I have is Robin hood AP flour right now.

Offline Pete-zza

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Re: Jets pizza
« Reply #239 on: March 03, 2016, 12:13:08 PM »
I'll be using the recipe on reply 230 before trying the one from the Washington post. Hopefully tomorrow but all I have is Robin hood AP flour right now.
jsperk,

The version I came up with for the dough for a clone of a small Jet's square pizza using an 8" x 10" pan is set forth at Reply 194 at:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=8247.msg413711#msg413711.

I believe segfault used a somewhat different version.

Peter

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