Jets pizza

[maxiemag]

I am trying to find a recipe similar to the crust that Jets uses for their pan pizza.
TIA

[Mad_Ernie]

Where is Jets pizza?  Do you have a website or any information on what their pizza looks and tastes like?

[Pete-zza]

Where is Jets pizza?  Do you have a website or any information on what their pizza looks and tastes like?

ME,

http://jetspizza.com/.

Peter

[Mad_Ernie]

Thanks Peter.

Judging by the looks of the pizzas I could see on the menu page, it looks like Jets has a rectangular pan pizza similar to a Pizza Hut pan/thick pizza crust.  The crust looks a bit fried to me, so I would say some form of oil (fat) in the pan is needed.  I would say this puts it closer to a PH pan pizza clone than a more traditional Sicilian style (except for the shape).

My suggestion is go through the PH pan pizza clone threads and start there using a rectangular pan.  You might need a baker's supply store to get a pan with the right amount of edge.

Start here and follow this and similar threads http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,213.0.html

After that, some tweaking will probably be needed to get it to the flavor that is more characteristic of Jets.

[Pete-zza]

ME,

Jet's also makes round pizzas. See, for example, http://jetspizza.com/menu/item/24.

Peter

[Mad_Ernie]

ME,

Jet's also makes round pizzas. See, for example, http://jetspizza.com/menu/item/24.

Peter

I noticed that, but since maxiemag said he wanted a recipe for Jet's pan pizza, I thought he meant the rectangular-shaped thick crust pan pizza.  The other pizzas looked more like traditional non-pan types (with nice shiney crusts  )

[Pete-zza]

ME,

Ah, you are so right. I will fall on my sword.

The key to these kinds of analyses is to get the form factor right, that is, get the pizza dimensions and relative amounts of dough, sauce, cheese and toppings. Getting brands of ingredients will also help, if only to have something to examine from related nutrition data. I noticed that the Jet's website does not give the sizes of their pizzas. Someone will have to measure typical pizzas, maybe a round one and a rectangular/square one (they say "square" but some look like they are rectangular).

I was looking at the data on the medium pepperoni pizza, which appears to be made from a hand shaped skin. That pizza weighs around 30 ounces baked, so an unbaked pizza will weigh a bit more. If you look at the allergen information, you will see that Jet's uses corn oil in the square pizza dough, soybean oil in the thin crust flour (this suggests a pre-made flour blend), Red Star active dry yeast, but no "milk or dairy within the crust" and no trans fats. 

If possible, maxiemag should also try to determine how the dough and pizzas are made, including the type of oven used (e.g., deck oven or conveyor oven). My suspicion is that the dough is made on premises.

Peter

[PizzaHog]

I believe Jet's originated in Michigan and that their corp headquarters is still here.  I would consider their square pizza to be Detroit Stylish version of Sicilian which does feature the fried crust as Peter correctly observed.  So in addition to the PH pan maybe some ideas from the Sicilian threads might apply.

[Pete-zza]

From some additional online research, I discovered that Jet's uses conveyor ovens in at least some locations. I saw a photo showing a Middleby Marshall WOW conveyor (http://media.naplesnews.com/media/img/photos/2008/07/24/080724BZ-EM-NEWPIZZA_00165_t607.jpg). I also read that Jet's was one of the first ones to bake the rectangular/square pizzas in a conveyor oven.

The pizza sauce apparently comes in cans bearing the name "Jet Fuel" (http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/3342567891/). The dough appears to be made on site at each location.

Peter

EDIT (1/25/16): For an updated link to the Middleby Marshall oven, see http://www.naplesnews.com/business/special-delivery-michigan-man-opening-southwest-florida-pizza-parlors-ep-401407525-330908851.html

[Jmikla]

From some additional online research, I discovered that Jet's uses conveyor ovens in at least some locations. I saw a photo showing what appears to be a Middleby Marshall WOW conveyor. I also read that Jet's was one of the first ones to bake the rectangular/square pizzas in a conveyor oven.

The pizza sauce apparently comes in cans bearing the name "Jet Fuel". The dough appears to be made on site at each location.

Peter

Jet's Pizza Sauce is also made from scratch in-house. The only portion Jet's Supplies' is the spice mix. The ovens "are" conveyor ovens are heated up to 545 degrees, and conveyor runs from left to right 8 mins on top oven and 9 mins on bottom oven.

[boboo]

I want to know how to make the Jets Pizza chain's exact square pan pizza with the hard fried crisp on the entire bottom and chewy top layer dough.  You can hear the crunch when you bite it. They claim no one can do it but them - a challenge.

[Pete-zza]

boboo,

You are not the first one to ask for the Jet's pizza recipe, as noted above. See, also, the recent video at http://news.yahoo.com/video/detroit-wxyz-20910802/jet-s-pizza-21918483*. You will need a lot of information to reverse engineer a Jet's square pan pizza.

Peter

* No longer available at Yahoo.

[boboo]

I have taken note of the ultra top secret nature surrounding this pizza.  That just means to me that its just a matter of one thing and of knowing it. Jets personnel have said its in their custom made pan thickness, but the pans look normal to me.   I'm willing. Who should I turn to?

[Pete-zza]

I have taken note of the ultra top secret nature surrounding this pizza.  That just means to me that its just a matter of one thing and of knowing it. Jets personnel have said its in their custom made pan thickness, but the pans look normal to me.   I'm willing. Who should I turn to?

boboo,

I have been doing some research on the Jet's square pizzas. What is it specifically that you are looking for and how time and effort are you prepared to put into the exercise?

Peter

[AustinSpartan]

From some additional online research, I discovered that Jet's uses conveyor ovens in at least some locations. I saw a photo showing a Middleby Marshall WOW conveyor (http://media.naplesnews.com/media/img/photos/2008/07/24/080724BZ-EM-NEWPIZZA_00165_t607.jpg). I also read that Jet's was one of the first ones to bake the rectangular/square pizzas in a conveyor oven.

The pizza sauce apparently comes in cans bearing the name "Jet Fuel" (http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/3342567891/). The dough appears to be made on site at each location.

Peter

Being from Detroit and having eaten a LOT of Jets' pizza in the past, I can comment on a few of the above points.

Jets uses some sort of oil in the bottom of their pans to achieve the crispy / fried bottom crust.

The sauce is indeed delivered in can form to the stores.

The dough looks to be made onsite, as I do seem to remember very large bags of pre-mixed flours around the store.

Every Jets pizza that I've stepped inside uses a conveyor type oven.

If there are any other specific questions, I may be able to leverage some family ties, as I do have a 4th cousin that manages a Jets store and has been in the business for 10+ years now.

[Pete-zza]

AustinSpartan,

If you look at the Allergen Info section at the Jet's Pizza website, at http://jetspizza.com/nutrition, you will see a reference to the use of corn oil in the square pizza dough. You will also note that soybean oil, which is a common oil used by pizza chains in their doughs, is used only in the thin crust flour, which is presumably used to make their thin round pizzas. If the allergen information is current and correct, I believe the oil that is used in the square pizza pans is corn oil. Otherwise, they would have to report the soybean oil as a possible allergen for those who are allergic to soy products.

What would be interesting to me and, I am sure, to boboo also, is what the pans are made of and who supplies the pans to Jet's. Actually, there are three pan sizes, only one of which is square (or appears to be so); the others are rectangular. If you look at the pans shown in the video at http://news.yahoo.com/video/detroit-wxyz-20910802/jet-s-pizza-21918483*, they appear to be dark, seasoned steel pans or possibly blue steel pans with reinforced rims. They also look to be made with folded, welded corners, as is common with some of the older bread pans, rather than being stamped out of a metal sheet. At least that is what the pans look like coming out of the oven toward the end of the abovereferenced video.

The oven is indeed a conveyor oven. Unless they have changed ovens, Jet's is using Middleby Marshall conveyor ovens, as previously noted.

I have never had a Jet's pizza. Are they anything like a Buddy's pizza?

Peter

* Video no longer available at Yahoo

[shuboyje]

Yes, Jet's is very much like Buddy's.  As a Detroiter I'll say Jet's is probably my favorite between Jet's, Shield's, and Buddy's.  It's topped more like an american style pie, but the base is the same.  The pans are also very similar to the pans talked about in the Buddy's thread.

[boboo]

Boboo in reply to everyone regarding replicating Jet's square or rectangle pan pizzas. I'm new member and am figuring out how to post.  Yes can you get in touch with Jets family to get any knowledge they will reveal. Thank you.  In answer to Pete, I am prepared to do anything and contact anyone I can to get the harder crunch on this pizza. The bottom line is Jets essential element is a generally desired one - A "harder" fried crunch on the entire bottom -hard crunch on bottom, soft on top.
What kind of pans does "Buddy" use?

Meanwhile, I'll tell what I have to date:  Everyone is right about it so far:  Jets uses the Middleby conveyor oven and cooks at 500 deg. for 8 min. There is no parbaking that I know of.   their allergy ingredients just list flour with barley and corn oil - no milk.

Their sauce is very neutral and they use a lot. ( does this help with top uncooked chewy layer?) The cheese is good but in the normal range. Normal sweet tasting dough. They put the cheese to the edge so it will produce a burnt top edge. They have a thick top layer of dough uncooked and chewy with a lesser middle cooked layer.

Its the "harder" fried crunch on the entire bottom that is the key. 

Their local personnel have claimed the hard crunch is all in their pan thickness, but admit the franchiser sends them the flour rather than a flour supplier. (The franchiser claims its "mom's" recipe and that they have the flour special made for them as well as their pans)  They showed me a pan and it seemed normal thickness for a good pan. They appear to be steel. At least, they are not cast iron. I think they are stamped. I don't recall seeing welds. They didn't look like nonstick. They were black on sides but the bottom appeared to be clean steel.
Jets claims they mix up dough on site and place it in multiple pans on top of the oil ( claimed just enough to cover bottom) in advance and keep in fridge. ( I don't know if they let dough rise in the pans or let it rise first, then put in pans) (I have only had success putting mine in pans to rise, then press down in middle right before cooking)

I have duplicated (beginner's luck) everything pretty well except for this one thing - the harder fried crunch; and, on the entire bottom. ( Pizza Hut has it but only on the edges) You can hear the crunch when you bite it. Its resistant.

My fried effect looks just right, even in the middle. But its a softer crunch which breaks into fine particles when bitten instead of sticking together with the hard crunch. Mine is also only on the edges - no crunch in the middle even though the middle is fried also.

I am trying to learn about flour etc. So far I have used bread flour and all purpose flour. Bread seems better. I have not tried high gluten or semolina (will try next) I tried cornmeal and it tasted like gritty cornbread.

A fried crunch is there, but not hard enough or on entire bottom. It seems it has to be just one simple thing to make it harder and thruout: It does not seem to be a matter of adjustments. The crunch is too evident.  It seems its one simple missing thing:  Commercial type of oil, the pans, the type of dough or ingredient in the dough???

PS: On the other hand, I did notice that their extra large had less hard crunch in the middle of it than the  large indicating they have a range limit as well. Would this indicate a matter of technique rather than ingredients?

Thanks a bunch
Bob

 

[Pete-zza]

Bob,

Thanks for offering to work on this matter. I look forward to working with you. Hopefully, we will both learn something in the process.

Sometimes it is tempting to conclude that a particular characteristic, such as the crunchiness of a crust, is due to one thing. Usually, it is a combination and culmination of several things. In this case, it might be a combination of the dough formulation, the pans (and how they are used) and the oven. Some of these aspects can be emulated in a home setting with a standard home oven but the reality is that a standard home oven, even one with a convection feature, is not the same as a Middleby Marshall conveyor oven. That usually means that you have to adapt either or both of the dough formulation--to the extent you are able to divine it--and the oven to be able to replicate the conveyor pizza, even if it is not an exact replication.

I will try to answer some of your questions below but, before doing so, perhaps you can indulge me by trying to answer the questions posed below. I have done a fair amount of research on the Jet's square/rectangular pizzas but there are still some gaps in my knowledge and understanding. You may be able to help close those gaps. So, here goes:

1. Do you know the ingredients used by Jet's Pizza to make the dough for their square/rectangular pizzas. If not, can you post the dough recipe you have been using?

2. Is there a particular size of Jet's square/rectangular pizza that you are trying to reverse engineer and clone and, if so, what is that size?

3. Do you have any information on the suppliers of the flour used to make the square/rectangular pizzas, the sauce (including seasonings) and the mozzarella cheese?

4. Does the YouTube video at accurately depict the bottom crust characteristics you have singled out for discussion? 

5. Have you ever seen commercial dough rolling equipment and proofing equipment in the Jet's Pizza shops you frequent and, if so, do you recall how they were being used, either for square/rectangular pizzas, round pizzas, or buns or related dough products?

6. Have you been able to learn who supplies the pans that Jet's Pizza uses? Do you know the different pan sizes?

7. I have read that on occasion a Jet's Pizza shop will sell dough balls. Have you explored that possibility?

8. Do you know any dough ball weights for the different Jet's square/rectangular pizzas?

9. Do you have a good digital scale?

Now, to your questions.

It is not entirely clear who sources the pans for Buddy's but there has been an enormous amount of work devoted by our members to ingredients and equipment used at Buddy's. It also appears that Buddy's has not been standing still and has made many changes to its operations since our members first started to try to reverse engineer and clone the Buddy's pizzas. At one time, there was speculation that a company in Livonia, MI, called P.A. Products, was a supplier of the Buddy's pans but the pan sizes that Buddy's uses do not match up with the deep-dish pans (blue steel) listed on the P.A products website (http://www.paprod.com/). If you are interested, you can read of the members' efforts to reverse engineer and clone the Buddy's pizzas at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3783.0.html. In that thread, you will see photos of some of the pans used by Buddy's.

If Jet's is using a lot of sauce, it would not be unnatural to expect either a gumline or a part of the crust that is not completely cooked. Moreover, these characteristics might appear more prominently with the larger rectangular Jet's pizzas because the edges of the pizza are more likely to be more fully baked than the center of the pizza. This problem is sometimes addressed by pan producers by perforating the center parts of the pans to allow more heat to be directed to the centers of pizzas. This is perhaps not a particularly practical solution for someone like Jet's Pizza because the pans might require a fair amount of oil in order to get the degree of bottom crust bake that characterizes the Jet's pizzas. I can tell you from experience that it is not a good idea to use oiled perforated pans in a home oven. The oil can easily fall through the perforations and hit the hot bottom coil and create a lot of smoke and possibly set off your smoke alarm is the oven door is opened.

Peter

[boboo]

Thanks for helping. I think and hope many folks will benefit.
Sorry for delay. Its either me or my computer but this is the first time I have seen Peter's last message. I'm on my son's now.  His is more updated
You make better sense than me (of course) when you say its probably not one thing but many things together to get the crust. Reality rings true when one hears it, if he's listening.

Before I get to questions, I went to a brand new Jets location tonight and their crust was not as crunchy as the other location even though, like mine, it looked the same - the golden fried crisp look. It looked like they cooked it less time ( they told me they cooked it for 8 min. 40 secs.); or, I noticed their ovens were down to 450 deg - if that helps as a guide in any way. ( mine just gets burnt if I cook it longer for the purpose to get the crunch harder.  This should tell us something too)  i.e., Mine goes past the right (looking ) crunch, to burnt without passing into a hard crunch stage.  I don't know if cooking it lower and slower would change the crunch but I don't think so. Fast or slow, it passes thru the crunch stage - Jets is a hard crunch - mine is a soft one. ( It hasn't been difficult to get the cheese and the bottom to coordinate except when cooking it lower  and slower.)  I did notice that one location started out with a harder crunch, then went to a lesser one as the hardest one was a little burnt (too hard). In any event, they can adjust this crunch and therefor the hardness stage; whereas mine is not adjustable. It goes from golden to burnt with no stages and no hard crunch. But they have a range and can count on theirs and play around with it.   

I'll try to find out some answers to your questions. For present, I don't know many of them viz:

I don't know the ingredients in dough except what Jet's allergy list is. They list wheat and barley and no milk products.  They list only corn oil.
Their video claims they get their flour special made for them. Looks like they send it out to their stores under their name though ( keeping it secret?). So, don't know original supplier.  None of the employees I've talked to know whats in it.

Their sauce spices comes the same way from Jets too.  Its not any thicker than normal etc. and it tastes just like tomato sauce you would get at the grocery with garlic, oregano and basil in it (not too heavy on spices.) They are keeping spices a secret too looks like. They call it Jet fuel. It looks brown. I do think the plentiful sauce helps give them the thick top layer of uncooked dough. They definitely have that; and, the cooked layer is very spongy and chewy also - High gluten? Their dough is very white so I guess they use bleached flour? Looks like most high gluten comes unbleached?
Their video claims they get the cheese direct from farm with "contented cows" that sit in barn and listen to opera music all day....OK....
One franchise owner said the cheese is top of the line costing them some extra bucks. Don't know any more yet.

The U-Tube critique video was exactly a correct version of the Jets I'm speaking of. The bottom crust was just what they look like and you can tell its extra hard with large chunks of crust which stick together and resist the bite.  They all do have bubble spots that don't get fried, so its contact with the pan that does it.  Mine looks like this, but the resistant crunch ( and chewiness) is not there)

I have looked for equipment utilized. They have large stainless table in back, but have not seen a dough rolling or proofing equipment. I see Middleby conveyor; large fridge; Hobart mixer and the big table and a couple of things I don't know what they are. I know they mix the dough on site each day from the flour that the main office sends them.  I saw one guy hand tossing their round ones. They use screens on round ones.
Don't know if they use instant or active yeast yet.  One employee told me they form the dough in multiple pans in advance by hand then refrigerate till time to bake.  I have tried letting dough rise then pushing it down, then putting in pans to rise again some - Didn't work for me, so I guess they let it rise in pans - I have to do it this way so far, but it looks just like theirs when done???   

I will definitely ask them next time if they will sell me a dough ball. Would love to have that. I figured they would shoot me or something.

I don't know their dough weights or ingredient weights. I just went by the approx size of their dough balls in their video (a guess)  The video has them pushing the dough down in the pans in the middle a little right before they put the toppings on. And their edges gradually rise up thicker as if it rose in pans - at least some. The middle is not that thick. This is what I am getting when I let mine rise in pan and push it down using the same size ball as them.

Mine is not too sophisticated to put it mildly (rank beginning beginner beginning to begin). I got it from the reported "Pizza Hut" recipe that has the same crunch as Jets, but just on bottom edges)  I use about two and quarter teaspoons active yeast and proof it ( have tried no proof "pizza"yeast from store in packages)  I use about a cup of warm water (guess around 110)  Two tablespoons of corn oil;  1/2 teaspoon of salt
(then shake little more in)  two tablespoons of sugar. (I have not adjusted for anything in the proofing) I have tried all purpose and bread flour. Bread does some better. Tried cornmeal - didn't work.  I do about three cups of flour, but it varies down to maybe two and half cups.  I usually don't have to add any more flour to remove the stickiness. It is usually gets dry to the touch to knead. I hand knead for ten minutes. Roll it out to just over size of pan. Cut it to fit pan. I'm guessing its about 1/8 " thick - little thicker on edges.  Put oil in pan. spread.  Put dough in pan push to  edges and let it rise in pan for several hours in oven (off) with pan of hot water in there. Have not tried refrigerator rise (few tries at it didn't work for me yet)  Punch it down in middle and put on sauce and cheese to edge for burnt top edge. Cook at 500 deg for 8 min. (9 is too long) ( have tried down to 450 for little longer.) (electric home oven.)  Tried middle and lower rack.  ( as said, I'm passing into the fried crunch stage - its just not crunchy though) Have tried varying amounts of corn oil in bottom and sides of pan. Up to 3oz for a 9X12 pan down to just covering the bottom.  Only know to now try high gluten and semolina from King Arthur's??? and get a thicker pan; Or adjust water.  I see Lloyd Ind. has raised holes to keep the oil in and let the moisture out??? Jets has no holes though.

My pan (that I had already) is stamped steel or metal. It is 9 X12 but its thin (I did get it level on bottom)
Jet's sizes are approx 9 by 9 for small; 9 by 12 to 13 for large; (the extra large I don't know, but as mentioned, the extra large begins to lose the hard crunch in the middle; so,l they DO have limits in size vs crunch. (this should tell us something?)

I have a friend who will let me use his digital scale. 

My result is NOT as chewy. Less uncooked layer. The cooked layer is more bread like.  And, as said, my crunch is there in appearance, but in resistance its too soft and flakes into tiny particles too easily (and none in middle), not hard like Jets.

When cooked, Jet's crust rises gradually from about an inch from the edge up to about 3/4" at the edge and is fairly thin in the middle - about 1/4" to 3/8".

What they got is very chewy; very crunchy; burnt cheese top edge.

I will try to get these answers ASAP. I might have to go in and ask one or two questions at a time. They get hush hush real quickly.