Tonight's NY Style Pizza

[friz78]

Here's a question:
How do the NYC pizzerias dress their large diameter pizza and get it into the oven without parchment paper?  There has to be a reliable technique without the use of parchment paper.  Like I said, I sprinkle flour on the peel AND the dough round before I place it on the peel and dress it.  This works for me now, but it is still not exactly a "slippery slide" in the transfer from the peel to the stone.  One little "stick" on the peel and you're in big trouble.  It's like russian roulette.  Plus, I would rather not have to place quite as much flour on the dough and peel than I currently am.

Perhaps it would be worth a try to spread and dress the pizza on my flat work surface and then, just before transferring to the stone, try to "slip" the peel underneath the dressed pizza on the flat work surface.  My experience is that the problems can happen AFTER the dough round is dressed on the peel, not before.  When I first place the dough on the peel without dressing it, the dough slides on the peel fine.  It's after the dressing that I have problems - and I dress the pizza as fast as possible without wasting time for the dough to stay on the peel.

[Bubba Kuhn]

May I point out that a peel is for taking a pizza out of an oven (to peel it from the brick) and not for putting one in the oven.
You shoud use a pizza board for building on. That is the way it is done correctly.
You have had a lot stick to the peel or have to use the mark of an amateur (corn meal) to keep it from sticking.

[friz78]

Bubba,
Thanks for the feedback.  Perhaps you can explain in more detail how a pizza board can easily and more efficiently transfer a fully dressed pizza onto a stone in the oven better than a peel.  Everyone else on this board, that I'm aware of, uses a peel to transfer pizza from their "work station" to the oven.  Or they use a pizza screen and just place the screen in the oven.  Some people use a metal peel, some use a wooden peel, but I don't know anybody who uses something other than a peel (wood or metal) to transfer their pizza onto a pizza stone.  If this "pizza board" is the best way to do it, I will go out and get one today.  But I need to understand how it works differently from a peel.
Friz

[dinks]

Brianc,

What I meant to say about the parchment paper is that if you wait too long to remove the parchment paper the high oven heat can cause the parchment paper to become brittle and to disintegrate if you try to remove it by pulling on it from the edges. What you can't pull out remains under the pizza until the pizza is done baking. At that point the parchment paper will usually be dark brown from the oven heat, and can be a bit messy to clean up. My greater concern is whether the parchment paper interferes with the browning of the crust bottom because it acts as a barrier between the pizza dough and the stone. I would think that the differences would be slight but I honestly haven't done enough testing to tell one way or another.

Peter

PETER:
 Good Afternoon. Most parchment paper totals at 450 degrees. I will assume that most of our pizza learned bakers bake theirs at 500 to 550 degrees. Have a nice day my friend.
   ~DINKS.

[canadave]

bubba,

May I point out that a peel is for taking a pizza out of an oven (to peel it from the brick) and not for putting one in the oven.

That's not true, at least not for everybody.  I've been in a zillion New York pizzerias where I've watched them put pizzas into the ovens with peels.  Not only that, but for some of us, peels are a good way to get the pizza into the oven as opposed to other devices.  I use my peel to get the pizza into the oven because it works better for me compared to other ways I could do it.

You shoud use a pizza board for building on. That is the way it is done correctly.

Again--you seem to have a set attitude about what should and should not be done.  But in pizza making, especially *home* pizza making, there's often more than one way to skin a cat--or make a pizza.  Not all of us a) have a pizza board, b) want to spend money on one, or c) find that making the pizza on a peel is any less valid a method than your pizza board method.

By the way, if the only correct way to build a pizza is on a pizza board rather than a peel, then why can I go to various pizza supply stores on the Internet and buy "makeup peels," which are used to build pizzas?

You have had a lot stick to the peel or have to use the mark of an amateur (corn meal) to keep it from sticking.

We're *all* amateurs here--except you, apparently.  You say using cornmeal is the mark of an amateur; I'd say it's the mark of someone who's heard that it's a good way to prevent pizza from sticking to the peel--which it is.  I used to use cornmeal too, until I realized that flour was a better way to do it--for me at least--because it didn't get all over the oven like cornmeal.  There are other people who use cornmeal and are perfectly happy; more power to them.

As an aside--why communicate the information you have to share (that IS part of why you're here, right?) couched in words that denigrate the other people on this forum?  I'm eager to learn from you, since you apparently are a "pizza pro" according to your website, but I'm not eager to be made to feel inferior about my own knowledge in the process.

Dave

[Bubba Kuhn]

This is a post from when I first joined and did not get these questions. Now that I have found them I will answer. I hope you are told by the forum of my reply.

Just because you see it in a New York Pizzeria don't make it right. The tools of the trade are unique and all though anything can be made to work does not mean that is the way it was made to work.

Look at the shape of the pizza peel its function is even in its name. It has a basic square shape with sharply rounded corners. Usually the blade is smaller then then the pizza board used to make the pizza. The peel may have a 12 to 14 inch blade and the pizza board is 16 to 18 inches in a strong round finish at the leading edge and the peel with a straight section between the corners.

Back in the day Blodgett, Bakers Pride, Wolf and most makers of pizza ovens did not use slabs for oven deck but rather 12 x 12 inch blocks or tiles were used to create the oven deck. That meant that the soft thin dough covered with sauce and cheese would ease down into the small cracks and spaces where each brick met. Therefore the oven tender will use his tool the peel to come in from the side of the pizza with the corner of the tool and twist the handle to lift the fresh setting crust up from between the cracks while in a quick scoot  moving under the pizza freeing it from the first sear that set the dough to spin the pizza so it will cook evenly. About a 180 degree turn.

The board is used to build on and place the pie in the oven. It is wood for a reason. It helps extract some of the dough moisture and you can use flour to put in the oven. This becomes important over the course of a shift but has little to do with making one or two. The cornmeal used by some creates its own smoke and flavor from the oven.  Toasted or burnt corn  works well in a southwestern flavor profile but just ain't for pizza. When used in a shop the smell of burnt cornmeal will saturate an oven and foul the pizza.
Remember to flour buff and scrape the grain and fiber from your board or you will have less success then you want.

Now let me say I have worked in more then one shop along the way where the shop owner was to cheap to buy or replace the wooden pizza boards and used and trained new pizza makers on the large pizza peels with cornmeal. The new guy just thinks that is the way it is done so given time it get propagated via familiarity in the do as Joe does training methods. Even if it becomes common it does not make it right.

So there are the tools and who they are meant to be used. What other people do is their own business but I suspect that you will find it worth the money to get a board if you want pro results. Also a screen is always a compromise to quality

You may want to see
http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,1367.0.html