A D V E R T I S E M E N T


Author Topic: Would you change anything on this formulation for a longer fridge fermentation?  (Read 451 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline novawaly

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 179
  • Location: new york
  • I Love Pizza!
Hi, making a deep dish this weekend. It's been a while and was thinking of trying a longer fridge rise. I know in NY style I normally adjust the yeast amount based on how long I'm going to be fermenting.

I usually do a 24 hour room temp rise. Would I need to adjust anything here to do a 48/72 fridge fermentation?

Can anyone speak to the added benefits or( lack there of) of the longer rise? Worth the extra effort?

This is my normal formulation
Higher Thickness Factor Dough:
9in: TF: .130 Sides 2.0 Bowl Residue 1%
OIL FIRST - WATER SECOND!
Flour (100%):         244.38 g  |  8.62 oz | 0.54 lbs
    80%: 195.2 g
    20%: 48.8 g
Water (46%):         112.41 g  |  3.97 oz | 0.25 lbs
ADY (1.75%):         4.28 g | 0.15 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.13 tsp | 0.38 tbsp
Salt (1.75%):         4.28 g | 0.15 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.89 tsp | 0.3 tbsp
Olive Oil (5.25%):     12.83 g | 0.45 oz | 0.03 lbs | 2.85 tsp | 0.95 tbsp
Corn Oil (15.77%):     38.54 g | 1.36 oz | 0.08 lbs | 8.56 tsp | 2.85 tbsp
Sugar (1.75%):     4.28 g | 0.15 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.07 tsp | 0.36 tbsp
Diastatic MP(1.75%):4.28 g | 0.13 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.9 tsp | 0.3 tbsp
Total (172.27%):    420.99 g | 14.85 oz | 0.93 lbs | TF i= 0.1313


If anyone has any comments or suggestions on anything else I should think about changing, please feel free to call them out. It's been a while!

Offline Mad_Ernie

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 881
  • Age: 58
  • Location: Kansas City area
Hi Novawaly,
I am not sure you need to do anything different for a refrigerated rise vs a room temperature rise, but I offer the following general suggestions from experience for what they are worth:
1. Let the dough rise at room temperature for 1 to 1.5 hours before refrigerating.
2. Use a food processor to mix the ingredients, if you have one.
3. Don't add the oil at first. In fact, initially add hold back about 1/4 cup of the flour and let the dough rise at room temperature, then add the remaining flour and the fats (oil, butter, whatever). Mix before putting in the refrigerator.
4. On the day you getting ready to use the dough, set it out of the refrigerator at room temperature for a minimum of 2 hours (6 hrs max) before you start making your pizza.

Keep us posted and let us know how it all comes out!  :chef:

-ME
Let them eat pizza.

Offline foreplease

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 9010
  • Age: 62
  • Location: St. Joseph, MI
Novawaly, a couple of questions, then a couple of changes I would consider.
- Have you been consistently happy with the pizza you turn out using the recipe as-is?
 -Do you always start with approximately the same water temperature?
- I think I would reduce ADY to 0.7-0.8%, or 1.71 g to 1.9 g (down from 4.28 g). After trying that, I may reduce it again next time if same ingredients and temperatures are used.
-The sugar is probably a good idea, given you plan to add a long cold ferment. I do not know what Lintner strength you are using as your DMP. I think I would cut your DMP from 1.75% to 0.5%, or 1.2 g. If the Lintner value of yours is higher, I would reduce to a 0.5% equivalent.


Chances are, after observing results, I might refine my changes next time. It would be helpful and fun to see some photos. Good luck with your next batch!
-Tony

Offline novawaly

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 179
  • Location: new york
  • I Love Pizza!
Novawaly, a couple of questions, then a couple of changes I would consider.
- Have you been consistently happy with the pizza you turn out using the recipe as-is?
 -Do you always start with approximately the same water temperature?
- I think I would reduce ADY to 0.7-0.8%, or 1.71 g to 1.9 g (down from 4.28 g). After trying that, I may reduce it again next time if same ingredients and temperatures are used.
-The sugar is probably a good idea, given you plan to add a long cold ferment. I do not know what Lintner strength you are using as your DMP. I think I would cut your DMP from 1.75% to 0.5%, or 1.2 g. If the Lintner value of yours is higher, I would reduce to a 0.5% equivalent.


Chances are, after observing results, I might refine my changes next time. It would be helpful and fun to see some photos. Good luck with your next batch!

I do usually start with the same water temp (about 90 degrees F).

What prompted the change from the usual formulation is that I'm from NY and have only had the actual Malnatis about 3-4x. I went recently and realized their crust was a lot "breadier" than mine.

I know I broke the rule by changing multiple things at once but I made two pies this week.

One of them had 51% water, 1% l-DMP ( I used AB Mauri which is about 20 Lintner, as i understand it - it's also more than a year and a half old so I'm not sure if it's even having any impact at all), 1% salt and only 10% semolina (instead of 20%). I also increased the the knead time by about a minute or so (maybe about 3 minutes total hand knead).

I thought it was definitely better from a "bready-ness" perspective but the flavor wasn't quite as good. The water percentage seemed to have a significant impact

All pictures of that pie are included below

The second pie I made this week, I returned to my normal formulation above, did about 1% l-dmp and kept the water at 51%. Salt went back to 1.75% and sugar also stayed at 1.75%.

Both were 24 hour room-temp rises. Both were about 8oz of Mozz and 2oz of provolone and both were between 420-430 finished dough balls. Both were cooked at about 425 with no convection for 32-35 minutes on a cermaic stone that was preheated for an hour at 500. The bottom was a little "harder" than I would like so will prob drop down to 27 minutes on the next cooks.

I liked the flavor on the second pie better and it retained the breadiness. Unfortunately, this was at a dinner party so it was gone before I could even take pictures of the second one.

Its probably been about a year since the last deep dish i made before these two pies. I do also remember a much more pronounced butter flavor in their dough. I've tried brushing melted butter on top before I lay the cheese and adding melted butter to the dough ball (5% of total weight) but neither had a noticeable butter flavor

Now that I've finished and compared back to the pictures I took of an actual lou pie (last picture), I'd love to get any opinions on improvements or changes I can make.




« Last Edit: September 29, 2022, 09:38:29 AM by novawaly »

Offline foreplease

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 9010
  • Age: 62
  • Location: St. Joseph, MI
Novawaly, I read your second post a couple times. My response had more with how dough behaves in cold vs room temp ferment. Mad Ernie’s suggestions were good. I know that some CDD recipes call for working the flour into the oil as a first step, it seems counter productive to me if you want more of a “bready” dough than a flaky one. I think Mad Ernie concurs as does the link below. Since you are interested in the Malnatti dough, I think this is a good place for you to visit next. It calls for delayed oil (and some of the flour) addition and uses 1% butter as one of the 3 fats.see first 3 posts here:
https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=6480.0
-Tony

A D V E R T I S E M E N T


Offline novawaly

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 179
  • Location: new york
  • I Love Pizza!
Haha yea sorry - i know this thread turned in a completely different direction.

I make a lot of NY dough and I always add the water first and the dough second. I think it's purposely done to get a more flakey product along with shorter knead times. i believe I got the idea from a Pythonic thread and some of SDBob's trials. I think those started with the BTB base and picked up some of his later formulations around 2014 (i think).

That is interesting though b/c his result looked very flakey. That's also how I mix NY style (usually all the water with 75% of the flour before slowly adding more flour after 5 min and enough gluten formation has occured)

Thanks for the suggestion though. Might have to just try another one this week and see how that compares

A D V E R T I S E M E N T