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Author Topic: How I make my NP dough  (Read 326023 times)

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Offline levity03

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Re: How I make my NP dough
« Reply #760 on: December 02, 2020, 04:00:12 PM »
Hey Craig -- Just following up on my previous query regarding the fragility of the dough when stretching. I had at it again but haven't had time to post. I tried in balls for ~12 hours and it was still pretty similar, hard to work with. Seems the gluten development is just not as strong as I find with ADY. I admittedly had a bit of trouble keeping a steady temp in the bulk -- started too cold, around 61F but warmed up from there - I would say the avg was around 65F when all said and done, before I balled and started to warm up further (high 60s, low 70s) before launch.

My starter is quite strong when I mix, so perhaps it's my method. Would an increase in mix time help? Perhaps I'm not balling tight enough...? I realize it's hard for you to say without seeing but anything else you can think of? Pics below start with the end of bulk, then dough ball activity before launch (looks quite active), then the finished product.

I am thinking of adding a bit of ADY the next time so that it's not such a struggle, though I know I may get shunned for that around these parts!

Offline Icelandr

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Re: How I make my NP dough
« Reply #761 on: December 02, 2020, 04:28:36 PM »
Out of curiosity, how long have you had your starter? I only ask because I too, am new to sourdough and in the early days had a ton of issues that seem to have resolved themselves, not through a stroke of genius on my part but a maturing of the starter (apparently). It has been about 5 months now and I no longer mutter curses when using it, in fact, in retrospect I am glad I tried and persevered, I like the results . . . . .now.
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Offline levity03

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Re: How I make my NP dough
« Reply #762 on: December 02, 2020, 04:32:05 PM »
For about a year or so. I keep it in the fridge and feed it about once a week or so if I'm not using it. Before I use it for bread or pizza, I feed 3x in 12 hr intervals. Even after the first feeding, it's pretty damn active - growing 2x+.

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: How I make my NP dough
« Reply #763 on: December 03, 2020, 08:40:12 AM »
Hey Craig -- Just following up on my previous query regarding the fragility of the dough when stretching. I had at it again but haven't had time to post. I tried in balls for ~12 hours and it was still pretty similar, hard to work with. Seems the gluten development is just not as strong as I find with ADY. I admittedly had a bit of trouble keeping a steady temp in the bulk -- started too cold, around 61F but warmed up from there - I would say the avg was around 65F when all said and done, before I balled and started to warm up further (high 60s, low 70s) before launch.

My starter is quite strong when I mix, so perhaps it's my method. Would an increase in mix time help? Perhaps I'm not balling tight enough...? I realize it's hard for you to say without seeing but anything else you can think of? Pics below start with the end of bulk, then dough ball activity before launch (looks quite active), then the finished product.

I am thinking of adding a bit of ADY the next time so that it's not such a struggle, though I know I may get shunned for that around these parts!

If you're only doing a total of 12h fermentation, you might try kneading more. My guess is that your starter is particularly strong when it comes to producing enzymes and/or acids that are breaking down the dough. If that's the case, there isn't much you can do with it.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, baker's yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
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Offline levity03

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Re: How I make my NP dough
« Reply #764 on: December 03, 2020, 09:56:02 AM »
To clarify -- it's a 48hr fermentation total. I started at 24hr bulk, 24hr balled, and had a similar result so you mentioned earlier in the thread trying to keep them in balls for just 12 hrs (36hr bulk), which is what I'm referring to.

It could be the same issue, I suppose -- perhaps I should scale down my starter to flour/H20 ratio. I'm usually doing 20-30g starter to 100g flour/H20 during feedings. Can give 10g starter a go. Will also try more kneading.

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Offline TXCraig1

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Re: How I make my NP dough
« Reply #765 on: December 03, 2020, 02:36:43 PM »
To clarify -- it's a 48hr fermentation total. I started at 24hr bulk, 24hr balled, and had a similar result so you mentioned earlier in the thread trying to keep them in balls for just 12 hrs (36hr bulk), which is what I'm referring to.

It could be the same issue, I suppose -- perhaps I should scale down my starter to flour/H20 ratio. I'm usually doing 20-30g starter to 100g flour/H20 during feedings. Can give 10g starter a go. Will also try more kneading.

At 48 hours, your gluten will fully develop with almost no kneading. My guess is gluten degradation from the starter. Some starters just don't work for pizza. We see this here every so often. Maybe cut the starter WAY back and use IDY/ADY for most of the rise and then work up the SD and down the IDY/ADY until you find the sweet spot.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, baker's yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
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Offline levity03

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Re: How I make my NP dough
« Reply #766 on: December 03, 2020, 03:38:35 PM »
Interesting. I may order an Ischia culture to see if that improves my results. Thanks for your help.

Offline sk

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Re: How I make my NP dough
« Reply #767 on: December 04, 2020, 02:50:27 PM »
It actually looks pretty good to me.  I'm not sure exactly what fault you are finding.  Dough made with SD is defnitely sometimes a bit more tender than dough made with IDY.  Treat it with care and the taste will be worth the effort.
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Offline icebob

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Re: How I make my NP dough
« Reply #768 on: December 07, 2020, 04:42:46 PM »
First try with sourdough, followed Craig's recipe from 1st page with 1.8% Ischia starter, 36hrs bulk, 12 balled @65~66f in the basement.Didn't have any caputo blue left so I used  Tony Gemignani’s “California Artisan” Type 00 Pizza Flour. Not bad for a first. Deck was @ ~900f and cooked in around 65/70 seconds,forgot to take a pic of the bottom... My frikkin S20 phone always get that orange tint when taking pics inside, they were not that dark! will go at it again next week-end...

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: How I make my NP dough
« Reply #769 on: December 07, 2020, 04:49:00 PM »
Very nice!
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, baker's yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
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Offline levity03

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Re: How I make my NP dough
« Reply #770 on: December 07, 2020, 05:03:24 PM »
That's a beautiful looking pie!

May I ask where folks are purchasing their Ischia starter from?

Online 02ebz06

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Re: How I make my NP dough
« Reply #771 on: December 07, 2020, 05:36:06 PM »
Sourdo.com
Bruce here... My cooking toys --> FGM 800-B Pizza Oven, Pellet Grill, Pellet Smoker, Propane Griddle, Propane Grill

Offline George_M

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Re: How I make my NP dough
« Reply #772 on: December 08, 2020, 03:54:38 PM »
My delicious pizza!



Offline Bogy

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Re: How I make my NP dough
« Reply #773 on: January 06, 2021, 02:39:29 AM »
Hi Craig, I'm very impressed by your topics about using sourdough in make NP pizza and that encourages me to try using it instead of commercial yeast and I thank you a lot for that.

I read before you ferment your dough at 18C, then you ferment it now at 62F +/-2 (as 16-18C) . and I like to know your opinion about two things
1- Do you find more flavor and more aroma in the dough at 62F ?!

2- What about your FDT (final dough temperature) ?!
    What about making FDT=62F as the same fermentation temperature?!


Thank you again
« Last Edit: January 06, 2021, 02:47:05 AM by Bogy »

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: How I make my NP dough
« Reply #774 on: January 06, 2021, 02:59:24 AM »
1) Yes. I've experimented <60F and >90F, and in the mid 60's is where I'm the happiest.

2) Never really paid attention to FDT.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, baker's yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
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Offline Bogy

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Re: How I make my NP dough
« Reply #775 on: January 06, 2021, 02:05:32 PM »
1) Yes. I've experimented <60F and >90F, and in the mid 60's is where I'm the happiest.

2) Never really paid attention to FDT.

Thank you a lot

Offline Paulo

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Re: How I make my NP dough
« Reply #776 on: January 10, 2021, 10:31:14 AM »
Hey guys, I'm new to the forum, my name is Paulo, I'm from Brazil and I have been making neapolitan style pizza in my home oven for almost a year now. I am amazed by the pictures shared, but I was wondering if any of you can give me some tips on how to get some leopard in a home oven (if that is possible) and big bubbles in the corniccione for example. Thank you!

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: How I make my NP dough
« Reply #777 on: January 10, 2021, 11:48:19 AM »
Hey guys, I'm new to the forum, my name is Paulo, I'm from Brazil and I have been making neapolitan style pizza in my home oven for almost a year now. I am amazed by the pictures shared, but I was wondering if any of you can give me some tips on how to get some leopard in a home oven (if that is possible) and big bubbles in the corniccione for example. Thank you!

These can give you some guidance, however unless you have an abnormally powerful broiler, it can be difficult without making dangerous oven modifications.

https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=10024.0
https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=11654.0

"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, baker's yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
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Offline Paulo

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Re: How I make my NP dough
« Reply #778 on: January 10, 2021, 02:30:08 PM »
These can give you some guidance, however unless you have an abnormally powerful broiler, it can be difficult without making dangerous oven modifications.

Thanks! Just to give some context:
My dough is:
- 100% flour
- ~68% water
- 2% salt
- 1% fresh yeast

After a 20 min kneading section (recommended by an Enzo Coccia video if I'm not mistaken), I let it rest for 8 to 10 hours in room temperature, then I form the dough balls and place them in individual plastic containers for 4 to 6 more hours.

How can I improve the recipe so that the bubbles get bigger for example?

« Last Edit: January 10, 2021, 02:37:34 PM by Paulo »

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: How I make my NP dough
« Reply #779 on: January 10, 2021, 03:23:42 PM »
It's not so much about the formula is it is the heat which is hard to duplicate. A suitably thick steel plate high in the oven combined with the broiler is where I'd start.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, baker's yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
Craig's Neapolitan Garage

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