A D V E R T I S E M E N T


Author Topic: Help improving crumb  (Read 557 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline ness

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 19
  • I Love Pizza!
Help improving crumb
« on: March 04, 2021, 10:53:14 AM »
I've been making pizza in the oven for years, and the last few with a KettlePizza insert on a Weber kettle. I typically do a 65% hydration and an overnight ferment in the fridge. I generally get a nice, open crumb.

I recently got a Koda 16 after my daughter's fiancé cooked me a couple pizzas on his. He used the Ooni Classic dough recipe, which is 60% hydration, and some sort of 00 flour. It's a same day recipe and he got a nice, airy crumb. They were excellent, and convinced me to take the plunge.

I've made two attempts and am just not getting the nice bubbles in the edge. On the second batch last night I bumped the recipe to 65%. Slightly better results but still not getting what I want. I think I'm getting things right in the recipe, and the temp in the oven is about what his was (940 degrees in the hot corner). Using Caputo red, IDY. About a 2-hour bulk rise then a 1-2 hour rise after balling up. Seems to be plenty of gas in the dough. So, I'm unable to figure out what's going on. Any help would be appreciated.
« Last Edit: March 04, 2021, 11:09:05 AM by ness »
-------
John

Offline foreplease

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 7474
  • Age: 61
  • Location: St. Joseph, MI
Re: Help improving crumb
« Reply #1 on: March 12, 2021, 07:02:10 PM »
What else can you tell us about the formula/recipe? You are probably going to have better results with a longer process but tell us what you can about how much IDY you used, temperature of the water you used, what the final dough temp was, if you know, after mixing. Do you know how much each dough ball weighed?  It will probably take 4-6 hrs after balling rather than 1-2 in order to get a dough that is easily extensible.


If you do not have a scale everyone here is going to recommend that next and it will be a painless purchase compared to the nice oven you got. Pictures would help too.


People here will help you out if you can provide more i fo.
-Tony

Offline ness

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 19
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: Help improving crumb
« Reply #2 on: March 17, 2021, 03:11:03 PM »
Thank you , Tony.

I've made a lot of pizza over the years and have a recipe I like, but I was so impressed with the results from my daughter's pizza that I bought the Koda 16 and used the same recipe they did: https://ooni.com/blogs/recipes/classic-pizza-dough.

Flour Caputo Red 607g
Water at room temp 364g (60%)
IDY 7g
Salt 18g

Same day ferment, all at room temperature.

In the second attempt I upped the hydration to 65%, same process.

Just didn't feel like the dough got the spring in the very hot oven, so I tried a couple other things. I went to my standby recipe, that I've had good success with in the past, which is Peter Reinhart's recipe here https://www.fornobravo.com/pizzaquest/classic-pizza-dough-neo-neapolitan-style/.

Flour Caputo Blue 680g
Water at room temp 442g (65%)
IDY 3g
Salt 20g

24 hours in the fridge, then about 4-5 hours at RT after balling it up. I got better puffiness, but somehow now what I've gotten with the KettlePizza. Did 4 balls ~ 240g each. Another challenge was getting the pizzas turned quickly enough to cook evenly and not burn.

Most recently I did the same recipe with Caputo blue, and did 5 smaller pizzas ~ 195g each. I also turned the oven down to low. I don't recall the temp. Results were even better but still not a pronounced puffiness like I'm used to.

I guess I figured the higher hydration and higher temperature would get me there.

Thanks for any help.
-------
John

Offline foreplease

  • Lifetime Member
  • *
  • Posts: 7474
  • Age: 61
  • Location: St. Joseph, MI
Re: Help improving crumb
« Reply #3 on: March 18, 2021, 09:01:21 AM »
Thanks for the additional info, John. I re-read your first post after yesterday’s new one. Please excuse the lack of complete sentences and paragraphs so I can make suggestions and ask a couple questions.


- going forward, do you plan to bake in your Koda and home oven only or do you plan to continue using the KettlePizza insert? One dough formula may not perform well in all 3.
- despite not getting the raised outer edge you want is, it browning adequately in your Koda?
- although you said it’s difficult to turn the pizzas quickly enough in the Kodaa it sounds as if you are not having any trouble handling the dough that is 65% water. If that is true I think you will be better off with the higher hydration from 65 down to about 62. In any event, more than 60. I suggest staying at 65 for now just to limit the variables in your work to tweak this.
- as I was reading your first formula I thought to myself ‘that sounds like a lot of yeast.’ It’s 1.3%. Your second formu.a uses approximately 1/3 as much (as a percent of the formula’s flour), which I think is closer to where you need to be.
-changing your process (workflow) and temperatures should help you with that outer edge even with the lower yeast amount, which isn’t terribly low at 0.44%
- I hope other will chime in because I’m not sure I have all the answers but can get you started with a couple changes to try
- the Reinhart recipe uses oil and sugar, water at 75%, and bread flour. So is this a third method you have tried?
- I think you are right about higher hydration and temperature getting you there
- at 0.44% I think you should try to pull this off as a same day dougn over approximately 6 hours from mix time to bake time
- since you are already having trouble with a small outer edge, stick with the larger ball size of 240 g
- suggest no bulk ferment and no refrigerator time. Instead: mix, knead, then ball immediately. Lightly oil and place each ball in something round, such as a large cereal bowl. Cover with Saran or similar. Leave them on your counter or somewhere where your room temp is fairly consistent
- once you get the edge and bake you are after we can explore a more flavorful dough if you like - probably by adding some refrigerator time but keep things simple for now


I hope this is easy to understand and that it helps.

-Tony

Offline ness

  • Registered User
  • Posts: 19
  • I Love Pizza!
Re: Help improving crumb
« Reply #4 on: March 19, 2021, 10:17:30 AM »
Thanks again, Tony.

I'm shelving the KettlePizza for now. Really just focusing on getting to know the Koda.

The first recipe I tried -- the Ooni Classic -- is designed for single day, so I that's why the high yeast percent.

I transcribed that Reinhart recipe and converted it to grams years ago. If the link I posted is 75%, that's not what I'm doing -- I'm at 65%. I have experimented with that recipe at 70% before, but have backed it back down to the 65%.And, I didn't use oil or sugar recipe, so, no 3rd recipe. I've had good luck with that recipe, and I think I'll stick with it for now unless I can figure out why I don't get the puff.  From what I've seen the 65% or even 60% gets a decent rise.

Thanks for the suggestions. Lots to think about.
-------
John

A D V E R T I S E M E N T