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Author Topic: Reverse Engineering UPN Dough  (Read 84573 times)

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Offline scott r

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Re: Reverse Engineering UPN Dough
« Reply #300 on: March 17, 2021, 08:28:29 AM »
Diego is correct.  Anthony went back to a spiral mixer when he opened the NJ location.

Offline billg

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Re: Reverse Engineering UPN Dough
« Reply #301 on: March 17, 2021, 11:06:32 AM »
Diego is correct.  Anthony went back to a spiral mixer when he opened the NJ location.

I wonder why he switched?  I've only used a diving arm mixer once and it was super cool.  It is so gentle on the dough.  One would think it would be better suited than a spiral mixer for Neapolitan pizza.  I guess when you are as talented as Anthony you could mix with ski pole and have great results  :-D!

Offline scott r

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Re: Reverse Engineering UPN Dough
« Reply #302 on: March 18, 2021, 12:07:21 AM »
I can assure you its because he preferred the spiral!   The man has been known to rip out a perfectly amazing Neapolitan oven out of his San Fran location when it was still an infant just because a different brand was a little bit better.   

I think its because he is using such a high hydration.  Spirals tend to work a little bit better there than diving arms at that end.  With a wet dough you dont actually want it to be too gentle.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2021, 08:41:34 AM by scott r »

Offline corkd

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Re: Reverse Engineering UPN Dough
« Reply #303 on: March 18, 2021, 08:32:29 AM »
During the panel discussion at the end of the Untitled Pizza Movie, Drew Nieporent mentions having tried a puffy crusted pie that he heard a lot of hype about, I assume in lower NYC. He does not mention it by name, but I wonder if it was UPN. He dismisses the style LOL.

Offline scott r

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Re: Reverse Engineering UPN Dough
« Reply #304 on: March 18, 2021, 08:39:49 AM »
There area always naysayers, people that just dont like Neapolitan, and every pizzeria has bad days, but I still think some of the best pizzas I have ever had in my life came from his hands.   I love that he is totally nontraditional in his mixing and just does his own thing as he constantly experiments.

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Offline billg

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Re: Reverse Engineering UPN Dough
« Reply #305 on: March 18, 2021, 04:26:39 PM »
 ^^^!!!!!!

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Reverse Engineering UPN Dough
« Reply #306 on: March 18, 2021, 06:58:19 PM »
Obviously I love NP, but I'm not a fan of the puffy-crust variant and becoming less so with each passing bake. My crusts are consistently moving in the other direction.

One of the best pies I've eaten was from the original UPN in EV - kind of an epiphany-level event. It inspired me to do a lot of things including authoring this thread. That been said, there have been a couple unremarkable, if not bad, ones too. Interestingly, another of my top-5 best commercial pies was consumed minutes after the UPN pie right around the corner at Luzzo's.
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Offline corkd

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Re: Reverse Engineering UPN Dough
« Reply #307 on: March 18, 2021, 07:42:14 PM »
Obviously I love NP, but I'm not a fan of the puffy-crust variant and becoming less so with each passing bake. My crusts are consistently moving in the other direction.

One of the best pies I've eaten was from the original UPN in EV - kind of an epiphany-level event. It inspired me to do a lot of things including authoring this thread. That been said, there have been a couple unremarkable, if not bad, ones too. Interestingly, another of my top-5 best commercial pies was consumed minutes after the UPN pie right around the corner at Luzzo's.
Yes!  I remember being blown away by Luzzo as well, and returned there several times- even once right after trying Motorino around the corner—which had taken over that east 12th st place from UPN.  ;D
Looks like both are still going strong.

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Reverse Engineering UPN Dough
« Reply #308 on: March 18, 2021, 07:53:56 PM »
I've done the Luzzo's - Motorino lunch several times and always eat 3 pies when I do  :-[   ;D
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, baker's yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
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Offline scott r

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Re: Reverse Engineering UPN Dough
« Reply #309 on: March 19, 2021, 11:56:17 AM »
Im with you Craig.  It saddens me that when I hit luzzos now its totally dead (and this is before pandemic).  The crust/sauce is still absolutely fantastic, but they dropped the default buffalo mozzarella on all pies in favor of grande fresh.  I think you almost have to do that to fit into a price point where the public feels comfortable these days with good buffala costing 4-5 times fresh cows milk mozzarella.

Both of these pizzerias still have it going on.   Just before Anthony left San Fran I had the best pie I have ever had at UPN and I have had his pies out of a number of different ovens at this point.   I think he does a lot of experimenting (look at all those flours!!).  thats never a recipe for consistency lol.  Also, since he is using so much preferment and such short time in balls we all know the first pizza of dinner service is not going to be the same as the last one of the night. 

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Offline Jersey Pie Boy

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Re: Reverse Engineering UPN Dough
« Reply #310 on: March 19, 2021, 01:07:33 PM »
Craig, what's the texture now of your preferred crust..and what changes have you made in your own NP?

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Reverse Engineering UPN Dough
« Reply #311 on: March 20, 2021, 12:10:50 PM »
Craig, what's the texture now of your preferred crust..and what changes have you made in your own NP?

The only changes I've made is lower ball weight. Sometimes I'll go as low as 225g for 13".
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, baker's yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
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Offline Jersey Pie Boy

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Re: Reverse Engineering UPN Dough
« Reply #312 on: March 20, 2021, 03:41:38 PM »
Thanks Craig...so at that weight and size, is any rim protected at the shaping stage..or just a margin when topping?

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Reverse Engineering UPN Dough
« Reply #313 on: March 20, 2021, 06:08:57 PM »
Not really. Pretty much just a margin. I still try not to crush it down too much.
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, baker's yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
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Offline Jersey Pie Boy

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Re: Reverse Engineering UPN Dough
« Reply #314 on: March 21, 2021, 05:04:32 PM »
I can only imagine how good it is!

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Offline Dasnyde4

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Re: Reverse Engineering UPN Dough
« Reply #315 on: April 19, 2021, 10:26:07 AM »
After seeing this thread, I decided to take a spin at Craig's UPN dough.  I've been making mostly New York and Detroit recently, but my wife requested Neapolitan.  I've had trouble using Craig's Garage formula in the past due to temperature/fermentation issues, so I thought this might work best as my basement keeps at a consistent 60 degrees.  I followed Craigs original recipes steps as prescribed.   I also made a direct dough with 12 hour room temp and a 36 hour cold temp to compare.  I am using an Ooni Koda 12.  The UPN dough was super airy, especially compared to my cold fermented dough.  It handled well, but was a little sticky.  Most likely due to the room temp and me trying to limit the flour used.  It tasted very good.  Unfortunately I haven't used my Ooni in a while and it was giving me difficulty controlling the temperature which led to a few burnt pies.  Finally my last two pies looked decent enough.  Picture attached. 

I appreciate Craig's work on this (even if it was a while ago).  The beauty of this forum is what is old can become new to someone else!  I'd like to tackle this one more time after re-getting used to my Ooni.  After doing new yorks for the past year I forgot how small the Ooni was and how the temperature can be difficult to control.

Offline TXCraig1

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Re: Reverse Engineering UPN Dough
« Reply #316 on: April 21, 2021, 07:36:47 AM »
Looks great!
"We make great pizza, with sourdough when we can, baker's yeast when we must, but always great pizza."  
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Offline texmex

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Re: Reverse Engineering UPN Dough
« Reply #317 on: Yesterday at 07:56:11 PM »
Thanks for pointing this thread out, Craig. I don't know what a UPN pizza is, but the very informative 1st post involving SD % is going to take some further investigation. 
Reesa

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