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Author Topic: Why do my dough balls flatten out during the proofing process?  (Read 365 times)

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Offline rexorbrave

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Hi All!

I have been working on making Neapolitan pizza's for some time now, but my dough balls always flatten out during the proofing phase.

I use Le 5 Stagioni - Pizza Napoletana tipo 00 flour (13% Protein | W300).

Recipe (Calculations made using PizzApp+):
4 Doughballs - 280g
- 675g flour (100%)
- 425g Water (63%)
- 20g Salt (3%)
- 0.23g IDY

Proofing at 20C for 24 hours.

The Dough Process:
- Dissolved the salt in the water. Added the flour and yeast on top of the water and started the stand mixer
- I used the intervals from Peter Reinhart for kneading as described in another post on the forum*. It basically entails "4 minutes knead at low speed, a rest period of 5 minutes, and 2 minutes at medium-low speed, for about 5 cups of flour"
- I then formed the balls into doughballs and put them in my proofing box. The balls looked somewhat like the first picture when initially put away (I didn't make a picture of my own since I didn't think this would be happening this time, but the balls looked the same but slightly more damp)
- Now approx. 5 hours in the balls look like the second picture, I am wondering what is causing this and what I am doing wrong. I have had this every time when making Neapolitan style pizza's.

If anyone knows what I can do to prevent this and if it is a big deal, I would love to hear it.
Thank you so much in advance!

* Link to forum post: https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=3204.0
« Last Edit: May 15, 2021, 04:49:37 PM by Pete-zza »

Online Pete-zza

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Re: Why do my dough balls flatten out during the proofing process?
« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2021, 05:07:24 PM »
rexorbrave,

If I were to venture a guess, I think your hydration value, 63%, is too high for a 00 flour, and also that your yeast quantity, at 0.0341% (0.23/675), may be too high for the fermentation temperature, 30C, you are using.

With respect to the hydration value, I think I would use around 59-60% to see if that improves matters. The flour I believe you are using (http://www.le5stagioni.it/Cms_Data/Contents/CinqueStagioni/Folders/Products/~contents/DDVJV64MDJJZNFNW/L5S_SchedeSITO_NapoletanaRossa.pdf) has a minimum absorption rate of 57% (I did not see a maximum value in the specs for the flour).

As for the yeast quantity, if you look at member Craig's chart at Reply 166 at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=26831.msg393271#msg393271 (click to enlarge), you will see a recommended amount of IDY of 0.006%, for a dough that is to ferment for about 27 hours at 30C (86F). So, you might try using less yeast.

Peter


Offline rexorbrave

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Re: Why do my dough balls flatten out during the proofing process?
« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2021, 06:10:41 PM »
Hi Peter,

Thanks for the reply! Sorry, the yeast is for fermentation at 20-21C. I will still check out the chart as it might be useful to me.
I will try lowering the hydration value next time! Thank you! :)

Offline amolapizza

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Re: Why do my dough balls flatten out during the proofing process?
« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2021, 06:47:21 PM »
If lowering the hydration doesn't work, try with another bag of flour.  Sometimes it can go bad, and then it won't form a good gluten web that holds for a long time..

I would have imagined that a 5 stagioni pizza flour would have kept its shape better during 5 hours..
Jack

Effeuno P134H (500C), Biscotto Fornace Saputo, Sunmix Sun6, Caputo Pizzeria, Caputo Saccorosso, Mutti Pelati.

Online Pete-zza

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Re: Why do my dough balls flatten out during the proofing process?
« Reply #4 on: May 15, 2021, 07:47:24 PM »
rexorbrave,

Jack (amolapizza) raises a good point. Foreign flours often have a high moisture content. In your case, the flour you have been using can have a moisture content as high as 15.5%. By contrast, the corresponding number in the U.S. is 14%. You can read the significance of high moisture content in flours in the section of the following article entitled Moisture, at page 4:

https://web.archive.org/web/20060208023504/http://www.kingarthurflour.com/stuff/contentmgr/files/15ec5c94af1251cdac2d7a25848f0e27/miscdocs/Flour%20Guide.pdf

Peter

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Offline rexorbrave

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Re: Why do my dough balls flatten out during the proofing process?
« Reply #5 on: May 16, 2021, 05:18:07 AM »
If lowering the hydration doesn't work, try with another bag of flour.  Sometimes it can go bad, and then it won't form a good gluten web that holds for a long time..

I would have imagined that a 5 stagioni pizza flour would have kept its shape better during 5 hours..

Interesting.. The bag was bought approximately 2 months ago and is sealed airtight, also produced this problem since the beginning. Could it be that it was already old at the place where I bought it?
Is there anything I can do to check this at an early stage next time so I can send back the bag? Its a 25kg one so you can imagine buying such a bag and getting rid of it would be a waste.

Thanks!

Online Pete-zza

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Re: Why do my dough balls flatten out during the proofing process?
« Reply #6 on: May 16, 2021, 10:11:19 AM »
Interesting.. The bag was bought approximately 2 months ago and is sealed airtight, also produced this problem since the beginning. Could it be that it was already old at the place where I bought it?
Is there anything I can do to check this at an early stage next time so I can send back the bag? Its a 25kg one so you can imagine buying such a bag and getting rid of it would be a waste.

Thanks!
rexorbrave,

You might check out the following posts by the late Tom Lehmann on the above matter, along with some other useful tips:

Reply 6 at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=47054.msg471945;topicseen#msg471945

Reply 6 at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=36171.msg360263;topicseen#msg360263, and

Reply 5 at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=46331.msg464941;topicseen#msg464941

Absent signs of insect infestation, I believe that most users of flours detect that something might be wrong with the flour through their baking results, especially when the results are not as good as previous successful results using the same flour in pretty much the same way.

Peter

Offline rexorbrave

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Re: Why do my dough balls flatten out during the proofing process?
« Reply #7 on: May 16, 2021, 10:31:49 AM »
rexorbrave,

You might check out the following posts by the late Tom Lehmann on the above matter, along with some other useful tips:

Reply 6 at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=47054.msg471945;topicseen#msg471945

Reply 6 at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=36171.msg360263;topicseen#msg360263, and

Reply 5 at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=46331.msg464941;topicseen#msg464941

Absent signs of insect infestation, I believe that most users of flours detect that something might be wrong with the flour through their baking results, especially when the results are not as good as previous successful results using the same flour in pretty much the same way.

Peter

Thank you for sharing the Dough Doctor's replies! I luckily don't seem to have any insect infestations in my flour, so for now, as suggested in the last post you linked, I figure Ill go with a reduction in my hydration to see what would fit best with this specific bag of flour and hope for the best next time around when I come to purchase a new bag.
Thank you for your help!

Offline amolapizza

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Re: Why do my dough balls flatten out during the proofing process?
« Reply #8 on: May 16, 2021, 10:50:28 AM »
For next time you buy, normally there is a date printed on the bag.
Jack

Effeuno P134H (500C), Biscotto Fornace Saputo, Sunmix Sun6, Caputo Pizzeria, Caputo Saccorosso, Mutti Pelati.

Offline rexorbrave

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Re: Why do my dough balls flatten out during the proofing process?
« Reply #9 on: May 16, 2021, 11:18:29 AM »
For next time you buy, normally there is a date printed on the bag.

Thanks! Ill pay attention to that

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