Pizza Making Forum

Pizza Making => New York Style => Topic started by: JerryMac on November 24, 2007, 09:10:30 PM

Title: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: JerryMac on November 24, 2007, 09:10:30 PM
Hey Guys  :D

A couple people have been asking me for my latest "Recipe" for
NY Pie dough, so, here goes.

For Poolish:

1 1/2 C Bread Flour
1 1/3 C Room temp water
1 tsp IDY

Mix flour and yeast together in bowl, add water, mix well, cover with plastic and let ferment at
room temp for 4 to 5 Hrs.


For dough:
All the poolish.
1 1/2 C to 1 3/4 C bread flour.
1 Tbsp Barley malt syrup or Honey.
1 tsp IDY.
1 1/2 tsp Kosher Salt or 1 tsp table salt.


Method:

Put poolish in mixer bowl.
Add barley malt syrup or honey.
Add IDY.
Mix till blended well.

Add 1 1/2 C flour and Salt and mix well at low speed.
Gradually add flour a little at a time with mixer running at speed 2 or so.
What you are looking for is, for your dough to clear the sides of the
bowl, but not the bottom. When this happens, no more flour.

Knead at medium speed for about 5 minutes. Dough should freely drop off
dough hook. (almost run)

This is a very loose (high hydration) dough. Bill, SNFM has posted a video on
YouTube on dough handling, my dough appears almost identical to his.
You can find a link to it under "Neapolitan" section.

Put dough into an oiled bowl, cover with plastic and let rise 1 1/2 Hrs.
at room temp.

Turn dough out onto lightly oiled surface, divide into 2 balls.

Transfer balls to lightly floured surface, dust lightly with flour,
cover with plastic and let rise 1 1/2 Hrs.

Make skins from balls. This dough makes 2  13 - 14 inch pies.

Do not use a rolling pin when forming your skins it will degas the dough
far too much. I use a slap and then stretch over the backs of my hands.

I bake pies made with this dough in an electric oven at 550 on a stone
and it gives me fantastic oven spring, with a slightly crispy outside and
a soft and chewy inside.

Please bear in mind that the final amount of flour in this dough is approximate
and that, for me it varies with the humidity, season, temp and just about
whatever variable you can think of.

Once you get it right once based on look and feel you will not be too concerned with
the exact amount of flour, but will readily be able to duplicate it every time just
by varying that amount. Remember start wet, and add flour slowly. You can
always add more if needed, but can't remove any. Adding more water at that
point can almost always be disastrous.

One more thing, for nice browning I always spray the edges of the crust on
my pies with EVOO right before they hit the stone. I don't like adding the oil
to the dough as it changes the texture of the crust to, too much of a bready texture
for my taste.

If you want to see a couple pies made with this method, see my last few
posts under this section.

If you give this a try, please let me know what the results were.  ???

Mangia Bene,  :chef:
Artsey, Feeley,  >:D
Jerry











Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: Bryan S on November 25, 2007, 12:14:22 AM
Jerry, Thanks for posting this I want to try it out. One question for you. Have you ever tried a overnighter on the poolish?  Say mix it up before going to bed and have at in in the AM for lunch, Just curious, Thanks.
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: JerryMac on November 25, 2007, 12:29:28 AM
Bryan,

Learned through experience, the most you can realy "Push" this "Poolish" to is about 5 hrs, otherwise the yeast runs out of stuff to eat at it will "Drop" (or Die) on ya  >:(

If done as stated it produces a very slightly "Sour" taste to your Dough  ;D ;D

Mangia Bene,  :chef:
Jerry
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: Bryan S on November 25, 2007, 12:37:23 AM
Bryan,

Learned through experience, the most you can realy "Push" this "Poolish" to is about 5 hrs, otherwise the yeast runs out of stuff to eat at it will "Drop" (or Die) on ya  >:(

If done as stated it produces a very slightly "Sour" taste to your Dough  ;D ;D

Mangia Bene,  :chef:
Jerry

Ok Jerry, Thanks much. Sounds mighty good, can't wait to try my first poolish.  :pizza:
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: Bistro on November 25, 2007, 01:13:51 PM
Fantastic Jerry I bugged you enough to post. I'm so greatful. I will give it a try and let you know what I get. I'm going to mix up the poolish in a few mins. After seeing your pictures I hope I can get close.
Mystie
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: JerryMac on November 26, 2007, 09:40:42 PM
Huys,

Thanks  ;) to all who let me know how my "method" works out for them  ;D ;D

Mangia Bene,  :chef:
Jerry
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: johnbbb on December 05, 2007, 01:27:23 PM
great pizza is a strugle between taste and texture  i only use 0.2% idy the taste is greate the texture is poor it could be my oven  but i can not get my self to add more yeast to the dough the yeast eats up all the natural suger render a dough with flavorless taste , you are using almost 1.5% with your polish and 1.5% with your dough so over all yeast is 1.5% of your total formula  ,you are not fermenting your finished dough for a long time but you are fermenting your polish for a long time considering the amount of yeast at1.5% , what i realy like to know are you getting a good bread taste out of  your pizza using this formula cause it seems you are using too much yeast  thanks
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: JerryMac on December 06, 2007, 11:36:36 PM
johnbbb,

My crust tastes absolutely fantastic, Bready and suculent  ;D ;D ;D

Remember, I don't do "#'s"  ;)

Too Much Yeast  ???  Not if you make it "My" way  ;D

Mangia Bene  :chef:

Jerry
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: mo-jord on December 14, 2007, 09:05:41 AM
I can't wait to try this!!!

 ;D
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: honey on December 16, 2007, 06:09:19 AM
Jerry, I have to add my thanks. I've been making a-pizza-a-week for about 10 years. A few times I tried assorted recipes for dough and sort of settled on an OK one. Thought I couldn't really get a good one here because of the water so didn't bother any more. As blah as my pizza was, anything was better than any other pizza I've ever tried in Southern California. They have to hold the record for the absolute WORST pizza anywhere. When I was still in my try-every-recipe stage I was told it was because there was something in the water here that made it different.

I have no idea how or why I found this board Friday and read your post. I read very little in any of the forums but I did go looking for a pic of one of your pies and was impressed so I tried my variation of your recipe yesterday.

It was FANTASTIC. The absolute best I've ever made - or had is what I'm thinking now, even better than my old favorite back east.

I couldn't follow your recipe exactly as I just have an old bread machine I use on dough making settings but it didn't matter. I also didn't raise it quite as much as you and that didn't matter either. I ended up with a crispy brown outside, soft and chewy inside, raised beautifully in the regular oven set to 550, no stone (my oven can brown pizza fine at that temp without a stone and I use a pizza pan with lots of little holes in it).

It was absolutely fabulous and looked beautiful! I thought of taking pictures to show you but the pizza looked too good to waste time hunting up the camera.  ;D
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: Bistro on January 27, 2008, 06:41:30 PM
Hey Jerry
Sounds like your recipe is a hit so far. I'm going to have to get it together and try again with the right ingredients. LOL

Mystie
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: tinroofrusted on February 02, 2008, 12:14:01 PM
Hi Jerry,

I made your recipe this week and I was very happy with the results. The crust was crisp yet tender, and the flavor was really very good. This is a slightly wetter dough than my normal pizza dough. Very good texture, with lots of irregular holes on the edges of the crust. 

This morning I mixed up another batch, but this time I substituted 1/4 cup of sourdough starter (Camadoldi from Italy) for 1/2 of the yeast in the poolish. I'm hoping it gives the crust even more character.  I will post the results later and maybe even a picture if it comes out alright. 

Thanks much for the recipe.  I really enjoy experimenting with pizza crusts. It's amazing the differences that small variations in ingredients and techniques can make. 

TinRoofRusted
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: abatardi on February 02, 2008, 12:53:54 PM
Is it just me or does this thread have an unusual number of first or low time posters raving about the recipe?   :D

- aba
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: sourdough girl on February 02, 2008, 04:16:42 PM
aba,
It makes sense...  the newbies probably don't have scales, aren't into baker's percents (yet) and might even be put off by the mathematics of making pizza dough, SO they find comfort in a recipe like JerryMac's!

I also recently tried this recipe (as noted in another thread about DelGrosso sauces) and will say that it turned out very well!  I have some photos to post.

I did make one error... I was planning on two pizzas and, after I had the dough balled up, noticed that the size pizzas this recipe makes are too large for my peel!  Next time, I will make 3 dough balls instead of two.  This error, of course, meant that the crust was a little too thick.  I actually was able to make the skins somewhat larger than the peel by putting them on parchment paper, so they ended up about 11" across instead of the 12-13" recommended.

The crust was VERY GOOD!!  It was light, flavorful and crispy, which is, IMHO, impressive for same-day dough.  To get the look and feel described by Jerry, I had to add the entire amount of flour, plus a couple of tablespoons.  The dough was very wet, but not a problem since I am used to making very-high hydration focaccia.

One pizza was topped with DelGrosso NY syle sauce (lightly sauced... about 1/3 of the jar), a 50-25-25 cheese mix of low moisture part skim Precious mozz, imported Fontina and smoked Provolone, respectively, and pepperoni, black olives and chopped onion.  The second was topped with the same amount of DelGrosso Supreme sauce, the same cheese mix and thinly sliced fresh tomatoes with a sprinkling of dried basil and some coarsely chopped proscuitto. 

They were baked for 8 minutes at 550o F on stones preheated for over an hour.

DH declared them the best pizzas I have made so far!  I asked him if he liked them better than the Brooklyn Brothers pizza we had in Everett, WA last month... and got a resounding "YES!"  So, as I said in the other thread, this means that, one more time, I have just messed up my chances for being taken out to dinner!   ;)   ::)   :chef:   :-D 

My next iteration will be using my own sourdough starter in place of the yeast in the poolish.  Should be interesting!

~sd
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: JerryMac on February 03, 2008, 12:21:16 AM
SD Girl,

"the newbies probably don't have scales, aren't into baker's percents (yet) and might even be put off by the mathematics of making pizza dough, SO they find comfort in a recipe like JerryMac's!"

"Yet, Mathematics, Comfort"  ??? ??? ???

Or they will never get scales and be forever doomed to the "Scaleless Hell of Artrsey Feely" as I am  >:D >:( >:D >:(

Or could it be that the "Newbies" are on the road to "True" dough "Nirvana" as I Am  ??? ;D ;D ;D ;D

"I had to add the entire amount of flour, plus a couple of tablespoons"  :-D :-D

Remember what I said, "Once you get the FEEL of this dough, it will serve you for a Lifetime"  ;D ;D

This "Formula" ( >:) really was meant to make 2 14"/15" Pies in "My Oven" on "My Stone" so you can divide it up to fit your "Oven / Stone"  :D :D :D 

Thank you for the compliments on the Crust  :-[ :-[ I am SO glad it came out good for You  :-[ :-[

Please let me know how it turns out with your starter  :o :o :o

Always remember, the best "Tools" I have, in my Kitchen are, My Eyes, My Fingers and, My Tongue  ;D ;D

Thanks Kid  :-[ :-[

Jerry
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: JerryMac on February 03, 2008, 12:48:28 AM
abatardi,

OK lets see, Oh yea,  >:D >:D there are a lot of "first or low time posters raving about this recipe"   >:D >:D

So, What does this tell us  ??? ??? ???

"first or low time posters" are ignorant and will buy into anything  ??? ??? ???

Or Perhaps, has "Someone" come up with "Something" for "first or low time posters" to try that will give them a "Really Good Pizza Crust" to Try  ??? ??? ???

You Tell Me  ??? ???

Or Could It Be That "Someone" has a "Superiority Complex"  ??? ??? ??? ???

You Tell Me  "abatardi"

Mangia Bene  :chef:

Jerry



Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: JerryMac on February 03, 2008, 01:10:02 AM
abatardi,

From "sourdough girl"

"DH declared them the best pizzas I have made so far!  I asked him if he liked them better than the Brooklyn Brothers pizza we had in Everett, WA last month... and got a resounding "YES!"

"first or low time poster",  ??? Don't think so  :o :o :o

Jerry
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: sourdough girl on February 03, 2008, 03:10:55 AM
JerryMac,
In posting that I had to up the flour amount... I probably SHOULD have made it clear for the "newbies" who want to try your recipe that, when you go by feel you sometimes have to add MORE flour... so DON'T be afraid to if you think you should!!  ;D  That's what this kind of recipe is all about... "artsey-feely" as you put it!  Getting to "know" the dough!   :chef:

The only reason that I use a scale (and I already had a postal scale as a seller on eBay) is that I was trying to replicate a recipe from my childhood... so, I needed to use more precise measurements and take notes so that I would be able to make changes that made sense.  If I am just "making pizza", I like to go by feel more often than not.... cause I like to play with my food!  Always got in trouble for that when I was a kid (and got my bratty little brother in trouble for making Mt Fuji out of his mashed potatoes and gravy when father wasn't looking !!  >:D ) so I'm making up for it now!   :-D   :-D

As for aba?  <shrug>  not sure WHAT he meant by his post!   :-\  Maybe he'll tell us.....   ???

I'll try to get to the pics tomorrow....

~sd
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: Pete-zza on February 03, 2008, 09:23:04 AM
Jerry,

Although I am an advocate of using a scale, as between using your "touchy feely" methods and not making pizzas at all, I would certainly advocate that people use your methods--at least until they find a method that works better for them. Until then, they should enjoy pizzas like everyone else. However, recently, I discovered that there are subtle aspects to using the "by feel" method. For example, as part of my many experiments over the past few months making the crispy/cracker and thin Chicago style pizzas, I used hydrations of 36% (DKM cracker style), 52% (Home Run Inn clone), 48.7% and 52% (Round Table clones), 53% (Monical's clones), and 57% (DeLorenzo clones). In all cases, the flour and water were weighed out using a scale (I used volume measurements for all of the other ingredients). The finished crust characteristics of all the styles, including crust thicknesses in several cases, were quite different from each other.

If I were to ask myself whether it is possible to make all of the above different styles by "feel", the answer would be yes. But I would have to make large numbers of each style in order to determine what that "feel" is in each case. Moreover, I have discovered that the feel will be different for doughs made by different machines (e.g., mixer versus food processor), and also by hand, as I learned recently with DKM's dough formulation. Accomplishing all of these feats would be fine for me personally, but I don't think that I could communicate the procedures to others so that they would have a reasonable chance at success in replicating what I did. The only way I know how to do that is provide good instructions and lay out the weights of flour and water (and specify the rest of the ingredients by volume) and hope that others will buy and use a scale to weigh out the flour and water.

The other thing that I noticed is that because I make so many different types and styles of pizzas, it is easy for me to forget the "feel" for any one style. Also, I have discovered that two different doughs with the same hydration can feel differently in my hands because of the presence of other ingredients, like large amounts of oil. Fortunately, I have not had any problems with these kind of issues since I keep good notes of all of the pizzas I make and I print out the formulations I use (and post the best ones on the forum). That way, I can go back to a particular formulation that I may not have used for months or even years and be able to recreate it with good results without having to rely on feel.

Peter
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: JerryMac on February 04, 2008, 08:05:26 AM
Pete,

Thanks for the input  :D

I understand Very well the reasons for people using scales and mathematics in their prep of dough and I hope people can understand the reasons why myself and many others have been preparing dough "Our" way for hundreds of years even before scales were affordable to the common man and that somehow, at least I feel that maybee we are part of the ancient methods of making dough  ;D ;D

As You have said numerous times in the past it is really just a matter of "personal preference" and there is no "right of wrong"  ;D

Mangia Bene  :chef:

Jerry
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: jkandell on February 24, 2008, 05:16:04 PM
I understand Very well the reasons for people using scales and mathematics in their prep of dough and I hope people can understand the reasons why myself and many others have been preparing dough "Our" way for hundreds of years even before scales were affordable to the common man and that somehow, at least I feel that maybee we are part of the ancient methods of making dough  ;D ;D

I recently bought a $16 scale after baking sourdough bread by cups for a long time.  I had expected this to make my recipes more standardized, especially when following books.  Surprisingly, I think I do more adjustment with cooking by weight than I ever did by volume!  Not sure why this is, perhaps it has to do with different types of flour, and different levels of humidity, etc.  To me weight versus volume is six of one or half a dozen of the other.  No matter what method you use you have to end up relying on "feel" anyway.
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: JerryMac on February 25, 2008, 08:18:31 AM
jkandell,

Go figure HuH  ??? ??? ??? ??? ???

Mangia Bene  :chef:

Jerry
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: abatardi on February 25, 2008, 02:32:02 PM
To me weight versus volume is six of one or half a dozen of the other.  No matter what method you use you have to end up relying on "feel" anyway.

That's fine if you know what the right "feel" should be... it is relative and not something easily transferrable to another person without having direct contact and experience (you end up having to rely on things like "add flour until dough is wet and tacky but not sticky"  ???).  Absolute measurements by weight are easier to get consistent results and recommended and used by almost all professional bakers (hence baker's percent). 

- aba
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: sourdough girl on February 25, 2008, 03:20:00 PM
aba,
Nothing personal, but I, for one, am not a professional baker.  They need to get consistent results to produce a product today that is the same (as much as is possible) as yesterday's.  That's the way to keep customers coming back... so their bakeries can stay in business. 

In a home setting, I really prefer the nuances of "playing with my food"!  I HAVE learned what that "feel" is... and I really think we all should!  I HAVE used Baker's Percents when I'm working to recreate a particular type, but I pay attention (and take copious notes) to the "feel" as well.

On the other end of the spectrum are the professional CHEFS who, when testing a steak to see if it's done, DON'T use a mechanical device (thermometer), but instead rely on "feel"... they poke it with a finger to see if it "yields" properly!  I don't have that feel (and don't want to take the chance of ruining a great piece of beef by overcooking it), so I DO resort to a thermometer, poked in the side of the steak.

Bottom line for me is that there is a place for both methods... and we will all just have to agree to disagree.

Is it just me or does this thread have an unusual number of first or low time posters raving about the recipe?   :D

- aba

Still not sure what you meant by the comment above... don't want to speak for Jerry, but I would sure like to know!  Care to 'splain?  Again, nothing personal, just really don't understand the correlation....   :-\   ???   ;)

~sd
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: Pete-zza on February 25, 2008, 04:21:38 PM
I think what often gets lost in this discussion is the purpose of using each method. In my case, I use weights and baker's percents most of the time because I am trying to perfect or improve upon dough formulations and, to the extent I am able to do so, to pass on what I have done to others to try out and, hopefully, be able to achieve the same results I did with a minimum of effort. This is all done on my part from behind a keyboard and not in person, where I would be able to demonstrate things more easily and quickly than I can do using only words and photos, including what a dough should feel like and how to tweak the formulation if necessary.

I have also discovered that I can analyze dough recipes better where weights of flour are used rather than volumes. The other day, I was trying to help another member who was having problems with his dough for a pan pizza. To better understand what he was doing, I started by converting his dough recipe from volumes to weights and baker's percents. When I told the member what dough batch weight I came up with, he provided information that told me that I was off by about 7 ounces, or almost 19% (it turned out that the member had a scale after all). If the member had told me exactly how he measured out his flour, I could have at least gone into my kitchen and weighed out the flour as measured out in the manner specified by the member. I would prefer that people who use volume measurements for flour and who want to tell others how to reproduce their recipes or to analyze them say how they measured out their flour. However, as simple as that request is, I have learned not to expect people to be more specific on the way they measure out flour. Again, it comes down to the reason why one method is used as opposed to another, and not whether one method is better than another.

Peter
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: sourdough girl on February 25, 2008, 05:10:43 PM
Peter,
I understand your reasoning completely and also understand that for you, the pizza guru, to be able to help people who ask for it, Baker's Percents are a must.  And it seems to me that you spend a lot of "ink" defending/explaining one side or the other.  Or both.

That said, I also get the distinct feeling (having read many MANY threads on these boards!) that some people (NOT you!) feel that recipes like Jerry's have no place here.  I guess that's why I feel a need to defend the "underdog" who doesn't conform.   ;)   ;D  After all, the logo above says "Pizzamaking.com" NOT "pizzamakingbybaker'spercents.com"   :-D   It seems that quite often, when recipes like Jerry's are posted, someone feels the need to jump in and tell them that they should be using Baker's Percents so that the rest of the population, both members and guests, can make the recipe. 

I also agree that it would make it easier to replicate a dough using volume measurements if the poster would explain their method.  I use the "stir, spoon and sweep" method and so sometimes need to add more flour, just like I did when I made this recipe a few weeks ago. 

If someone likes the looks of the photos they see but don't feel comfortable making a recipe with old-fashioned volume measurements, perhaps they should learn the conversion steps, like you have.  And, of course, they can always query the poster for clarification.  But I see no reason for anyone to get "soap-box-y" about the dubious NECESSITY of Baker's Percents.  If you don't like the recipe as posted, go find another one!  Lord knows, there are PLENTY on this site!   8)   :-D

~sd
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: abatardi on February 25, 2008, 05:28:04 PM
I think Pete said it best as always.  And as you said consistent results keep customers coming back.  I don't know why one would not strive for creating a consistently good product in their own kitchen, especially when they are in the mood for good pizza and aren't sure what they are going to get if they go by 'feel' alone - light airy crust or dense and chewy, because they may not be experienced enough yet to "feel" the same thing every time.  Also if you stick to weight measurements, you can change small things in the formula to see what happens in the end result.  If you had two similarly skilled people, one using weights and one using feel and volumes, and they were both striving at the same end result, I don't see how anyone could argue that the person doing it by feel would get there in less attempts.  Either way, feel comes with experience no matter which way you work... If you took away my scale I am confident I could make an identical pizza dough because I've done it so many times and know what the dough should look like and what it should 'feel' like.  Most people come to this board to learn how to make pizza, and how to reproduce something they see in pictures as closely as possible.  This cannot be done by the novice baker by feel alone.  They might luck out once or twice but the consistency will not be there and sooner or later they will be wondering what happened to make their latest batch turn out like crap ('no such thing as too much yeast with my method' - ha!).  

- aba
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: sourdough girl on February 25, 2008, 06:32:40 PM
aba,
did you read the post of mine that is just above your last?  I thought not... I think we were typing at the same time.

Let me say this as succinctly and nicely as possible:

This recipe was written in volume measurements because Jerry likes it that way.  He has stated reasons for his preference.  We don't need any more explanations of why you think BPs are better.  You will never convert us VM adherents, so you should just leave the pulpit.  You're preaching in the wrong church.   :angel:    >:D

I have used this recipe of Jerry's twice now, the second time reduced by 1/3 because the recipe is too big for just DH and me, and both times it turned out WONDERFULLY! 

You could save yourself a lot of time typing (especially making seemingly backhanded comments which you have not as yet explained even though asked) if you would just avoid VM recipes since you have made it perfectly clear that you don't like them.  Then poor Peter wouldn't have to jump in with HIS explanations...    and you're right, aba, Peter DID say it best, as always...

Again, it comes down to the reason why one method is used as opposed to another, and not whether one method is better than another.

Peter

Since this is an open forum called pizzamaking.com, any recipe should be welcome, not just those in BPs.  Or am I wrong?   ;)

~sd
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: abatardi on February 26, 2008, 04:38:01 PM
I guess it's like trying to argue politics... in the end, some people are still Bush supporters.  ;D  To each his own. 

- aba
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: sourdough girl on February 26, 2008, 04:58:44 PM
aba, you are exactly correct!  Which is why, in reply #23, I suggested that we all just agree to disagree...

(And you DON'T want to get me started on Bush...  he, personally, sent my husband to Iraq.)   ;)   >:D   :'( 

~sd
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: JerryMac on March 01, 2008, 12:43:30 AM
abatardi,

I'm sorry, I have really tried to stay out of this one, But  >:D

"consistent results keep customers coming back"

I'm sorry, but I don't run a Pizza Joint, DO YOU  ??? ??? ???

I cook for Friends and Family  ;D ;D ;D   Do You  ??? ??? ???

"I don't know why one would not strive for creating a consistently good product"

I make Pizza, Not "products", Do You  ??? ??? ??? ???

"If you took away my scale I am confident I could make an identical pizza dough"   :o :o  If you were "Confident", you wouldn't have to brag about it  :-D :-D :-D

 "('no such thing as too much yeast with my method' - ha!)." Where did you get that Crap  ??? ???

abatardi, Know what I wish you and me could have,  A good old fashioned "Bobby Flay" "Pizza Throwdown"  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

You Got The Guts  ??? ??? ???

I'm READY  >:D >:D >:D

Jerry  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

 

Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: sourdough girl on March 01, 2008, 03:37:15 AM
OH, yeah!
Bobby Flay!!

Sign me up as one of the judges!!  I'll be impartial, I PROMISE!! 
(Did you ever notice on those throwdowns that the judges are all local??.... for a REASON!!  If he's taking on a local food icon, the judges should NOT be impartial...they should KNOW the local cuisine!  If they're stacked against Bobby, well, that's what he asked for!)

Hang onto your toques  :chef:  here we go....  :pizza:   :P   :o   8)   ;D 

~sd



Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: abatardi on March 02, 2008, 11:12:58 PM
Remember, I don't do "#'s"  ;)

Too Much Yeast  ???  Not if you make it "My" way  ;D

Mangia Bene  :chef:

Jerry

;-)

Ha!  I'd even put money on that.  Tax time coming up and I could use the extra $$$.  :-)

- aba
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: JerryMac on March 03, 2008, 12:13:00 AM
Sourdough Girl,

NO, You Can Not Be A Judge  >:( >:(  You Would Not Be Impartial  >:( >:( >:(

Tell Ya what though, I'll do this is in Aba's back yard so He'll have all the Judging Advantages  ;) ;)

And I'll Still "Whup His Butt"  :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D

Whoooooooooooo  ;D

Jerry
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: JerryMac on March 03, 2008, 01:03:51 AM
abatardi,

You Have, As of Yet, Refused to Explain the following comment you made in this thread, to our "first or low time posters"  >:(

"Is it just me or does this thread have an unusual number of first or low time posters raving about the recipe?"  ??? ???

Please, as I am sure that you will agree, that They (first or low time posters), would "Really" love Your Explanation, as to Exactly What You Meant   ;D ;D

Thanks for your Timely Response  ;) ;)

Jerry
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: abatardi on March 03, 2008, 02:06:57 AM
Thought it was pretty self-explanatory.

/end thread

- aba
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: JerryMac on March 03, 2008, 02:31:01 AM
Aba,

Ever heard the old saying, "Thought Thought, But He Thought Wrong"  ??? ??? ???

You "Still" haven't "Explained"

Jerry
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: abatardi on March 03, 2008, 11:22:52 AM
/end thread
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: JerryMac on March 23, 2008, 11:45:37 PM
abatardi,

Sorry, You can't end "MY Thread"  :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D

Jerry
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: Bryan S on March 27, 2008, 12:16:08 AM
abatardi,

Sorry, You can't end "MY Thread"  :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D

Jerry
He has a point.  ;D
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: pnj on March 27, 2008, 12:36:20 PM
I've been itching for a really good pie lately. I'm going to try this one out tonight.

What happens if I leave one of the dough balls in the fridge for a day or two? I've found that no matter what I add to the dough, if I leave it to cold ferment for a day or more it is allways easier to work and seems to increase the flavor as well. yet this dough seems to be one that you cook the same day. One thing I don't like about pizza making is that I have to plan so far ahead for good pizza....

And why are there NO pictures of this elusive pie?
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: pnj on March 28, 2008, 12:56:10 PM
well, made this yesterday. I don't have a mixer so I had to use my hands. kinda sucks.. the dough was really wet/moist. I cooked it at around 500 or so and used a flat pan with no holes. It was the first time I'd used this pan. I sprayed a small amount of oil on the pan and placed the dough on it.

the dough was VERY thin. the crust didn't puff too much, I would have like more rise.

it tasted fine but about an hour later I had a funny floury feeling in my stomach... weird.
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: sourdough girl on March 28, 2008, 03:07:45 PM
pnj,
I'm no expert, (that would be Pete-zza!) but I'm guessing that the use of a cold pan with the dough is why you didn't get the oven spring you wanted.  I have made this recipe several times (and am making it again tonight... the poolish is on the counter!) and I bake at 550o F on a stone preheated for at least an hour.  I get GREAT oven spring with the hot stone.  I also have a second stone directly above so that the entire pizza is evenly cooked.  If you don't have a stone, you might want to consider investing in one... it does make a difference!

Just curious... did you leave one of the dough balls in the fridge for a cold retard?  If you did, I would sure like to hear the results.  I think this recipe is designed with the poolish so that you don't necessarily need a cold overnight ferment.  The poolish gives it extra flavor instead.

As for the "floury" feeling... I'm not sure what that's all about, but I can tell you that, for me, this crust is very light, crisp and flavorful, with just the right amount of chewiness... it is the only one I have made so far where DH doesn't leave ANY crust on the plate... he eats the entire slice!  That's high praise from him!

I will post pics of tonight's pizza...

~sd
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: Pete-zza on March 28, 2008, 05:17:26 PM
In the opening post in this thread, Jerry mentioned that there were pictures of his pizzas available on the forum, and that there was also a video by Bill/SFNM showing a similar dough condition out of the mixer. I believe the video is the one at http://youtube.com/watch?v=DQd38yoND0g, but I have been unable to find the pictures of Jerry's pizzas. Can anyone provide a link to those pizzas?

As to pnj's results, I believe that part of the problem stemmed from making the dough by hand. Jerry relies on visual cues to tell him when the dough is ready, specifically, when the dough pulls away from the sides of his mixer bowl but not from the bottom. When making the dough by hand, it is hard to get comparable visual cues. That problem is exacerbated by the fact that, by my estimation, the hydration of the dough is somewhere between 75-81%. That range assumes that Jerry measures out his flour and water textbook style, and could well be different if he uses different measuring methods. In any event, it takes considerable skill to make skins out of a dough with a hydration of close to 80%. Using a cold pan to bake the pizza also did not help, as sourdough girl has pointed out. Ideally, you would like the dough to hit a very hot stone to get the best oven spring. When a pan is used, the pan has to get up to temperature before the pizza on it can start to bake and exhibit good oven spring. With a very highly hydrated dough, it is hard to get the oomph needed to yield good dough expansion. Using a perforated pan might have helped by getting some of the heat directly to the dough.

It is possible to cold ferment a dough based on the poolish method, but usually the purpose of using the poolish method in the first place is to save on total preparation time. The usual practice is as Jerry described. To materially depart from that method will usually require modifying the dough formulation and the dough management process, as by altering the amounts of yeast, the poolish and/or dough fermentation times, temperatures, etc.

Peter
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: abatardi on March 28, 2008, 09:03:48 PM
And why are there NO pictures of this elusive pie?

I guess we're supposed to have faith.

- aba
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: Mick on March 29, 2008, 04:22:49 AM
I guess we're supposed to have faith.

- aba



  :)
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: Pete-zza on March 29, 2008, 07:25:32 PM
Here is my attempt at Jerry's NY style: 13" mushroom and pepperoni, baked at 550 degrees F on a pizza stone for about 6 minutes. I kept track of everything I did, so I can provide whatever detail anyone may desire.

Peter





Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: Pete-zza on March 29, 2008, 07:35:43 PM
Another photo of the pizza from another side..

Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: sourdough girl on March 29, 2008, 08:27:42 PM
Peter!
Nice pizza!!

I made a couple last night using Jerry's recipe.  Didn't get any slice photos, but have a couple of other photos to share.  The close up shows the nice, brown crust bubbles which signify those nice voids.

"Faith" is no longer needed!!

The pies were sure GOOD!!  I made one with little fishies, pepperoni, black olives, diced yellow onion and diced red pepper.  Would have liked green pepper better for the visual contrast, and some fresh mushrooms, but didn't have any in the fridge.  I used part skim Precious mozz.  The sauce was an 8 oz can of Hunt's tomato sauce mixed with McCormick's "Gourmet" Tuscan style dried herbs (purchased at Costco).  This is my "emergency" sauce when I discover, to my chagrin, that I have no "good" tomatoes in the pantry. 
The other was Precious fresh mozz, sliced fresh tomatoes, fresh basil (some added before baking, some after... photo shows only the "before" basil) and EVOO.  Both were WONDERFUL!  The fresh mozz/tomato pizza was baked second and, since we were quite hungry, I didn't allow long enough for the oven/stone to recover, so that pizza crust is not as dark.  But, I can tell you, it was just as flavorful!

I baked at 550o on a stone (with a second stone ~3" above) that was preheated for over an hour.  The pizzas baked in about 6 minutes.  Nice crust bubbles on the first pizza and good browning.  When I sliced it with the pizza wheel, there was a nice, crisp crunch.  The crust was chewy and flavorful. 

LOVE this crust!  Have yet to try it with my homegrown starter, but that will be another iteration. 

~sd
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: Pete-zza on March 29, 2008, 08:40:23 PM
I hope that Jerry will tell us exactly how he measures out the flour when he makes the dough. I ended up with a hydration of around 66%. I found that I had to work fast to dress the pizza so that it wouldn't stick to the peel. If I know how Jerry measures out the flour I should be able to get a better fix on the hydration. It's a good recipe, and a good choice for a pizza to be made same day. I used barley malt syrup, which accounts for the light brown color of both the dough and the crumb.

Peter
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: abatardi on March 29, 2008, 09:39:43 PM
You always 'gotta have faith..'... ;-)

What's more telling is the 3 very different pies I see that all followed the same recipe.  From very thin crust with no voids to a big fluffy pie.  This was always my point from the beginning.  If Pete knew the exact formula that pnj ended up 'using' to make his pie (what he actually put into the bowl by feel) and wanted to make a copy, I'm sure his would have looked very similar to pnj's version.  I would be interested to see Pete post what the formula ended up being for his attempt (by weight if he kept track of it) and then have pnj give it another shot by following that [formula by weight]. 

- aba
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: sourdough girl on March 29, 2008, 10:10:39 PM
You always 'gotta have faith..'... ;-)
- aba

Figures you'd be a George Michael fan.   ;)

I'll rise to YOUR bait just for the sake of honest dialog:

I don't think the LOOK of the pie has as much to do with the recipe as it does with the chef and his/her surroundings... for instance, the oven (meaning highest temp available, convection or non-convection, etc) the stone, (or lack thereof in pnj's case) the preheat time, the ambient kitchen temp for the poolish/dough rise...  I think those, and quite a few more, variables exist with ANY recipe... and the photos would reflect that on almost any thread on this forum.  I have made this dough three times and all three times had the same good result: GREAT pizza that DH and I enjoyed moreso than any we have purchased.

The true point is:  was the pizza GOOD?  Was it what you want it to be?  If yes, the recipe works.  If no, keep looking for a "better" one.  THAT aspect is completely subjective and not based on photos on a website. 
For a same-day dough (sometimes the pizza urge strikes TODAY and we don't have time for a 3-day fridge retard) THIS recipe works for me.  That, to me, is all that is important.


~sd

Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: Pete-zza on March 29, 2008, 10:21:37 PM
aba,

I made half the recipe and adjusted the knead time accordingly. Otherwise, I followed the recipe the way it was described in Jerryís first post. It is possible that by making only one dough ball rather than two and letting it rise twice (1 Ĺ hours each time) I may have altered the dough such that it had a lot of gas that resulted in tremendous oven spring with huge bubbles. I have read that a single large dough ball ferments differently than several smaller dough balls that collectively weigh the same as the larger one.

The most difficult part was getting the amount of flour right and dividing it properly between the preferment and the final mix. I measured out the flour by dipping my measuring cups into the bag of flour and shaking the measuring cups gently to get the flour level in the measuring cups. I assumed that Jerry didn't use the stir-lift-level method of measuring out flour.

The dough formulation I ended up with after the fact was this one:

Flour (100%):
Water (66.242%):
IDY (1.3535%):
Kosher Salt (1.61763%):
Non-Diastatic Barley Malt Syrup (4.71809%):
Total (173.93122%):
222.55 g  |  7.85 oz | 0.49 lbs
147.42 g  |  5.2 oz | 0.32 lbs
3.01 g | 0.11 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1 tsp | 0.33 tbsp
3.6 g | 0.13 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.75 tsp | 0.25 tbsp
10.5 g | 0.37 oz | 0.02 lbs | 1.5 tsp | 0.5 tbsp
387.08 g | 13.65 oz | 0.85 lbs | TF = N/A
Note: The flour is King Arthur bread flour; the Kosher salt is Mortonís; the finished dough weight was 13.30 oz.; the hydration of the preferment (weight of preferment water divided by the weight of preferment flour) was 128.4%

I ended up using 4.05 ounces of flour and 5.20 ounces of water for the preferment (along with part of the IDY). The amount of flour that I used in the final mix was 3.80 ounces. Based on Jerryís recipe, I should have used an amount of flour in the preferment that was equal to or a bit less than what I used in the final mix. If I knew how Jerry measured out the flour, I think I should be able to fine tune the numbers and create a dough formulation that is closer to his recipe. I showed the photo of the dough on my scale so that Jerry can comment on whether it looks right. I used a basic KitchenAid stand mixer with a C-hook to knead the dough.

As noted above, I used barley malt syrup. I donít know what the others used. It may have been honey. Both the preferment and the final dough fermented/proofed at around 71 degrees F. I am sure I could have stretched the skin out to 14", which would have resulted in a smaller rim. I don't recall what size pizzas the others made.

Peter
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: sourdough girl on March 29, 2008, 10:50:13 PM
Peter,
I used honey (Fred Meyer, pure clover, grade A) and my ambient kitchen temp was ~68o F for the rises.  Another variable is how long the poolish was left to ferment (Jerry says 4 to 5 hours) and mine was fermented for about 4 hours, 45 minutes.  I used Diamond Crystal kosher salt.  That's another variable, since it's "flakier" than Morton's.  My pizzas were stretched to 11" based on the size of my peel.  I used HK bread flour, both for the poolish and the final dough.  I made a 2/3 the dough batch (LOVE my KitchenCalc!!) to make 2 pizzas of the appropriate size to his recipe. 

I didn't weigh my ingredients after volume measurement, but next time, I will. 

My question to you, Peter:  did you LIKE the pizza??  I'm guessing so, since you say it's a "good recipe, and a good choice for a pizza to be made the same day".... I would like some subjective input, if you wouldn't mind?!?

thanks,
~sd
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: Pete-zza on March 29, 2008, 11:22:34 PM
sourdough girl,

I would say that my preferment worked for almost 5 hours. I watched for the "break", which is the point just after the preferment peaks and then starts to recede. From that point, there is a reasonable period of time to use the preferment. The break, as best I could detect it, came at about 4 hours and 45 minutes.

Based on my finished dough weight (13.30 oz.) and the 13" pizza size, I calculated the thickness factor to be around 0.10. That allowed me to do a better comparison with other NY style pizzas that I have made using the same thickness factor.

I thought the pizza was very good. It was more breadlike and with a much larger rim than what I am used to in a NY style but those differences didn't detract from the eating experience. And the crust had good flavor and texture. This wasn't the first time I used a preferment for a NY style. See, for example, http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,576.msg23239/topicseen.html#msg23239 (Reply 362), in which I used a "biga" like preferment for a take-and-bake version of the Lehmann NY style dough formulation. I think using preferments is a good idea in general. I would definitely use Jerry's recipe again. As you might suspect, I would prefer to have a good baker's percent version of the recipe that would allow me (and others) to play around with it and make modifications without altering the basic characteristics of the pizza. So, for example, if I wanted to make an 18" version, I could come up with the formulation easily and quickly.

Peter
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: Bryan S on March 29, 2008, 11:22:52 PM
SD Girl, FANTASTIC looking pies.  8)  Peter, FANTASIC looking pie as well.  8) But you know, really what do pictures provide other than eye candy? They sure do look good, but taste is where it's at for me. I guarantee I could make a awsome looking pie that tastes like crap and could make one ugly looking pizza that tastes awsome. It's all about the taste, who cares what it looks like. JMO, Rant over. On a upbeat note, I'll bet they tasted as good as they look. Nice job, real nice  :pizza:
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: JerryMac on March 30, 2008, 12:00:39 AM
abatardi,

Really, I don't want to seem arrogant, But, Please, look at the pies that have been produced using this "recipe"  ;D ;D

I am a "one day dough" guy and have worked on this for 8 years !!!

Please look at the recent pics of My, Pete and Sourdough Girls Pics of Pies made with this "Recipe"

Mangia Bene  :chef:

Jerry
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: JerryMac on March 30, 2008, 12:18:37 AM
Pete and Cathy,

I can't thank you enough for the time and effort you have put into trying my "Recipe" / "Method" :) :)  ;D ;D

I am Really glad that it makes People Think  :-D :-D :-D

Pete, I'll get back to you soon as to the method I use to "Measure" flour :) :)

Thanks Guys,

Mangia Bene  :chef:

Jerry



 
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: JerryMac on March 30, 2008, 12:43:13 AM
Hey Guys, Guess What ???

Life's a Crap Shoot  ;D ;D ;D

Enjoy It  ;D ;D ;D

Jerry  ??? ??? ??? ???
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: Bryan S on March 30, 2008, 12:52:39 AM
Hey Guys, Guess What ???

Life's a Crap Shoot  ;D ;D ;D

Enjoy It  ;D ;D ;D

Jerry  ??? ??? ??? ???
Jerry Buddy. Keep on keeping on. I still want to make this dough one of these days. I'm going through some health issues these days. I haven't made pizza in many, many months. I hope to be able to get back into it sometime soon. Great pics of your dough by SD Girl, and Peter. They look soooooo good.  8)
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: JerryMac on March 30, 2008, 01:15:02 AM
Bryan S,

Go Get is Kid  ;D ;D ;D

Jerry
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: JerryMac on March 31, 2008, 08:45:03 AM
Pete,

Measuring flour - I just scoop and shake off the excess as you suspected  ;)

Two other things you pointed out, that I feel are important in this "Recipe" are:

1: the "break point" in the poolish, watch for the peak and get it before it falls and yes it should be    around 4 hrs 45 min  :)

2: kneading, watch for the dough to clear the sides but not bottom of the bowl. If it clears the bottom, the dough will be too dry  :)

If i had to guess, I'd say the hydration will wind up in the high 60's and not closer to 80, My Sicilian dough and focaccia are probably in the 80's.

Here are links to pic of some pies made with this "Recipe"  :)

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,5829.0.html

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,5815.0.html

Oh yea Pete, you were right, you have to work fast to top this pie on the peel or it will stick. Maybe this little point will help people to understand the "feel" of this dough  ;)

Hope all this helps a little  ;D

Fughedaboudit  :chef:
Jerry
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: Pete-zza on March 31, 2008, 10:34:47 AM
Jerry,

Thanks for the additional information.

I measured out the flour just as you did because I figured that that is the method you would use because of its utter simplicity. I think I may have actually been a bit on the dry side with my dough because it did not quite stick to the middle of the bowl, even at 66% hydration. As I reported, I made one dough ball. If you were to make just one dough ball, would you let it rise the second time? I can see that with two dough balls they might need some time to recover from handling, shaping, etc. From your photos, it looks like you may have used honey instead of barley malt syrup. Is that correct? Because of the high hydration, I think that it might be worth trying a perforated disk or maybe even a perforated cutter pan (both dark anodized). There seems to be plenty of lift in the dough to still be able to have good oven spring. Using a disk or pan will make it much easier for someone to dress the pizza and not fear that it will stick to the peel.

Peter
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: sourdough girl on March 31, 2008, 02:03:05 PM
Jerry,
Thanks for the clarifications...  I usually watch for a silver dollar sized spot of dough in the bottom of the mixer bowl and that's when I quit with the flour.  I use the "stir, spoon, sweep" method which explains why I have to add a little more flour than you do!  It makes sense!  As for the poolish, I didn't wait for the signs of falling back, mostly because I was pressed for time.  I think it could have gone a little longer, based on the fact that my kitchen temp is about 3 or 4 degrees cooler than Peter's.  All good knowledge to have!

And remember, the best--and only--compliment you will get from aba is his silence.

Peter...
Thanks for the subjective comments.  I know you are a science-guy and sometimes it's hard for science-guys to be subjective... objectivity is the norm.  Recipes like Jerry's, are mix of art and science, which is why I really enjoy making this recipe!  My educational background is both scientific and artistic, so I guess that explains my being drawn to a VM recipe. 

And yes, I had issues with the dough sticking to the peel, so I solved it by the use of parchment paper.  If you look at the photo of my tomato/cheese pie, the parchment is still there.  Since it was the second pie baked, the parchment didn't turn as black as the first pie...with my oven set to 550, the paper under the first pizza browned/blackened at the edges and became very brittle but didn't catch fire.  I realize that I sacrificed some crispness (but not MUCH!) by removing the initial direct contact of the dough with the moisture-absorbing stone.  With the first pie, I pulled the parchment out as soon as the crust had set, so that crust was quite crisp.  The crust on the tomato pie was still very good, but I wish I had let the oven/stone recover more.  Or perhaps I should have started it on the hotter upper stone and moved it down.  That's an experiment for the next time!
But, bottom line, I would much rather use parchment than a cold pan to resolve the sticking issue. 

Bryan,
Thanks for the compliments!  I'm sorry to hear of your issues and hope that you will be able to return to pizza making soon!  How you must torture yourself looking at these photos!   :'(   :o 

~sd
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: Pete-zza on March 31, 2008, 03:19:20 PM
sourdough girl,

Technically, what Jerry uses as a preferment is not a "poolish", which requires using equal weights of flour and water. It is quite possible that the break point will be more readily detectable in a classic poolish, and similarly for a sponge, than a more watery one like Jerry's. I calculated a hydration of around 128% for the preferment I made using Jerry's recipe, whereas a classic poolish will have a hydration of 100%. This is just a technical point since the differences aren't likely to have a significant effect on the final outcome. However, for someone using a scale, it might make it a bit easier to measure out the flour and water. 

FYI, according to theartisan.net treatise on yeast, at http://www.theartisan.net/yeast_treatise_frameset.htm (click on "Fermentation Control" in the left panel and look under Sponge Doughs), after the break point arrives there is still time left to use the preferment. As a practical matter, even if the preferment is past its prime it can still contribute acids and other byproducts of fermentation that will enhance the crust flavors, although some might not find the flavors entirely appealing if the preferment ferments too much. Also, it may be necessary to make other adjustments to the ingredients that go into the final mix to compensate for the higher acid levels, sugar depletion, etc.

The reason for my objectivity with Jerry's recipe is to be able to determine how much dough I would need to make a pizza of another size while still retaining the characteristics of Jerry's finished crust. For example, if I asked you or Jerry how to do that using volume measurements for an 18" pizza, how would you instruct me?

Peter
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: sourdough girl on March 31, 2008, 05:52:15 PM
Peter,
Thanks for the clarification of poolish v preferment.  I always thought that preferment was an umbrella term for all types... poolish, sponge, biga, etc and didn't realize that there was a specific hydration for each.  Since my preferment had not started to fall back, I'm guessing that I might have gotten even more flavor out of it had I had the luxury of a little more time. 

I fully understand the need for you to convert this recipe to BPs because there is no way I could tell you the information you need based on what I always make for DH and me.  When I discovered that the pizzas Jerry was making were larger than what my peel will hold, I used my KitchenCalc http://www.contractor-books.com/CI/KitchenCalc.htm to scale the recipe down by 2/3 and it worked perfectly.  I now make 2 11" pizzas.  Were we to have guests, I would use the full recipe...  but as far as an 18"?  No clue, I wouldn't be able to help you at all.

~sd
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: Pete-zza on March 31, 2008, 06:32:08 PM
sourdough girl,

I don't know how to do it by volumes either. However, if I were satisfied with the dough formulation I posted earlier, I could scale that up to the 18" size quite easily--or to any other size for that matter. However, if I were to be really serious about this kind of exercise, I would perhaps rework Jerry's recipe to use a classical poolish. I would do this simply because all of the formula water is used in the poolish and I could just use the same weight of flour for the poolish as for the water. Once the poolish fermentation time is established, I would then have to determine the amount of additional flour (by weight) to use as part of the final mix to achieve the dough condition that Jerry described. If the pizza turned out well, I could then come up with a new dough formulation based on baker's percents. I think it should then be possible to convert the flour for that version from weights to volumes now that I know how Jerry measures out his flour. Or else I could specify my own method of doing the conversions or use November's Mass-Volume Conversion Calculator at http://foodsim.toastguard.com/. (http://foodsim.toastguard.com/.)

Peter
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: jweitzel24 on April 02, 2008, 10:03:40 PM
Just would like to start by saying that while this is my first post, it's definitely not my first pizza.  I've made some really good ones, and some horrible ones (my fiancee can attest). 

Anyway, I followed the recipe right on (except for a couple of high altitude changes, Colorado Springs 6500 ft) but I prepped it very differently.

Instead of Jerry's process with the poolish, I let my, ahem, bread maker (shhhhhhhh) handle everything.  1 1/3 cup of warm water mixed with the tbl of honey in first, 3+ cups of bread flour on top with indentions for my 1 1/2 tsp of kosher salt and 1 3/4 tsp yeast.

It came out of the bread maker pretty moist, but nothing a floured surface wouldn't fix.  It's the perfect amount of dough for two 14" pies.  My electric oven only goes to 500, but they came off the stone soooo perfectly.  This were easily the pizzas I've ever made.

Thanks for the recipe, Jerry!
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: JerryMac on April 07, 2008, 01:11:57 AM
Listen,

It's all "Finger" and "Tongue" Maigc, It's Not "Real"

 :'( :'( :'( :'(
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: WestCountry on April 21, 2008, 10:36:40 PM
Hi Everyone,

Here's my shot at the JerryMac recipe. This pizza recipe was awesome. Better than my old recipe. THANKS  Jerry, you are awesome!  ;D
I baked this up here in the Mile High City in a 550 degree oven on the pizza stone.    (Interesting note - I didn't need to add more flour after the initial amount was measured into the mixer.... My guess is because of the high & dry altitude of Denver.)

Pizza was awesome - lots of air/bubble pockets - nice crispy chewy crust. Very easy to make and work with. Here's some pics...

-Chris  :)
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: Mad_Ernie on April 22, 2008, 10:01:06 AM
Awesome pizza in those pictures! ;D    :pizza:

Thanks for sharing!
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: JerryMac on April 22, 2008, 12:28:31 PM
WestCountry,

Great lookin Pie  ;D ;D

Glad the dough worked out for ya  :-D :-D

Mangia Bene  :chef:
Jerry
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: Pete-zza on April 22, 2008, 12:57:33 PM
Chris,

That is a nice looking pie. I have been surprised at how many different looking pies have been made using Jerry's recipe. Did you depart from it in any way, for example, in terms of the ingredients, preparation methods, or pizza size?

Peter
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: WestCountry on April 23, 2008, 12:15:22 AM
Hi Peter,

Thanks  for the interest.   
I stuck to the recipe for the whole thing (big deviation is Colorado altitude/climate). I used King Arthur Bread Flour throughout.

The poolish was exact per recipe.  For the dough, I used the honey (vs. barley malt). I only needed the 1 1/2 cups of flour (I measured flour as JerryMac does above by scooping/shaking off excess).

The thing I found most interesting is I didn't have to add any flour (after the initial 1.5 cups) to the kitchen-aid mixer that was running. From the looks of what I had in the mixing bowl - it looked like it would clear the sides of bowl without the additional flour...and sure enough, it did!  So I didn't add any more.

When I got it out of bowl it had a good balanced feel - didn't feel too wet nor dry. I anticipated it being very loose (high hydration) from reading this thread, but it felt "just right". My guess is that living in the high-altitude and dry air here in Colorado rapidly soaks up that moisture from the dough.

I produced two dough balls that made the ~14" pies (since that's a 16" stone in photo) with oven at 550 degrees.

I also don't prefer a huge outer crust around the edges (I think that's called cornicione?), so that why the crust edges seem kind of low - I shape it that way on purpose per my taste.

I did forget to spray or add EVOO to edges of the crust before cooking. Next time I will try that.

I cut (with scissor) all my pies on wire rack like shown (to avoid condensation underneath). In the pie above - its just fresh cherry tomatoes (that I pureed) and mixed with EVOO/spices, and fresh mozzarella cheese from Costco (BelGioso).

I will definitely be using this again since its better than my old recipe.

Thanks again, to you and Mad_Ernie and JerryMac for some nice comments!

Chris  ;D

Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: briterian on April 27, 2008, 02:33:12 PM
Last night my wife declared this my best pizza yet.  She said the crust was 'perfect in every way.'  I've tried many recipes on this forum and I think I have one I'm going to stick with. She said it the best flavor,texture, and chew...and she's quite hard to please.

I baked it for 4 min 20 sec in my Bakers Pride M02t oven at 640 degrees.    Thanks JerryMacDaddy

Brian
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: November on April 27, 2008, 05:19:30 PM
In hopes of either confirming or setting a standard for non-textbook volume-mass conversions, I'm looking around at popular dough formulas that specify ingredient amounts in volumetric terms, and where a manual attempt at converting the measurements to weights has already been made.  This dough formula, mentioned in the initial post, was analyzed and converted by Peter (Pete-zza) based on information given by the author as to how he measured his flour.  Peter's post can be found here: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,5851.msg55496.html#msg55496

I wanted to see how close my analytics that went into the recent upgrade to the Mass-Volume Conversion Calculator (http://foodsim.toastguard.com/) are compared to Peter's weighings.  This was done with another dough formula recently with surprisingly similar numbers (http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6576.msg56374.html#msg56374).  For easy reference, I'll reiterate Peter's manually measured and calculated hydration for this dough formula: 66.242%.  Using the M-VCC, with the "method of measurement" set at Dip + Shake (per the author's description), these are the weights:

Poolish
219.3464   (1.5 c)   King Arthur Bread Flour
315.4502   (1.1/3 c)   water

Remaining
258.7018   (1.75 c)   King Arthur Bread Flour (per sourdough girl using 100+% of the flour)

The hydration from such values comes to: 65.9871%  That's only off by 0.3848% from Peter's hydration.  Changing the depth of the measuring cup by just 0.5 cm accounts for a difference of more than 8.5 times that.  So it's safe to say it's within the margin of "cup-depth" error.  {If water from honey (3.8880 g) is included, the hydration becomes: 66.8004%.}  From this I conclude that once again, the method of measurement's influence on the weight of the ingredient has been adequately represented by the tool.  I am satisfied with the approximation if Peter is; and if Peter is satisfied, maybe he won't have to keep running to his measuring cups and scale to determine the weight of everyone's flour when they present their dough formula volumetrically.

- red.november
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: Pete-zza on April 27, 2008, 08:29:16 PM
November,

I'll always be happy being off by less than a half of a percent on the hydration. When I did the original volume measurements of flour, I tried not to be too self-conscious as I did it and to do it casually as I imagined Jerry would do it. I also knew that I would be able to make adjustments in the final mix because Jerry said that the dough should pull away from the sides of the bowl yet stick to the bowl in the middle. That was an important visual cue for me.

Using your tool should be a big help in the future. I will still have to ask the author of a recipe recited volumetrically how the flour and water were measured out--unless that information is provided up front--but at least I won't have to go to my measuring cups, spoons and scale.

Peter
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: 2stone on April 30, 2008, 06:52:39 PM
OK Jerry,

I had to give your recipe a shot, the only thing I changed was the honey
to brown sugar. Otherwise everything was pretty much the same give or take
a few min here and there!
Your crust was excellent, it had a nice flavor and with the high hydration it was
easy to stretch out. The bottom baked up nicer than normal, and had a good texture to it.

All in all a recipe I would recommend for a one day 2stone bake.

temperature was 750 and the bake time was about 3 min.
Definitely better than any one day bake I have done so far.

willard 
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: JerryMac on May 01, 2008, 10:53:22 AM
Willard,

Great lookin pies  :D :D :D

Still savin my nickles for the oven  >:( >:( >:(

Mangia Bene  :chef:
Jerry
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: DenaliPete on May 06, 2008, 07:09:32 AM
Drawn to the attention that this topic had been getting, I decided to give this recipe a shot myself.

I didn't have to add much additional flour at all and was quite impressed with the ease of stretch with this dough, as my normal recipe requires more TLC for a good stretch.

The only place I deviated was letting the dough rise 2 hours in a metal bowl rather than the recommended 1.5 hours, and honestly it was simply an oversight on my part.

On the whole I was very impressed with the results.  Because my stone and peel are on the smaller side I found that I had to roll the crust up a little bit to make it fit (which speaks to the fine stretching ability of this dough), which suited my fancy just fine.  But the bottom was nice and thin with a delicious crust. 

Sorry guys, I would take a picture and post it, but there just isn't anything left to photograph.  I have the second ball of dough in the fridge now and will snap some pics of that tomorrow.

I think this recipe is very comparable to mine, and I very much appreciate that this allows for same day baking.  I believe I will toy around with the recipe a little bit for my own sake, but I was very impressed Jerry.
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: Pete-zza on May 06, 2008, 08:03:43 AM
Because my stone and peel are on the smaller side I found that I had to roll the crust up a little bit to make it fit (which speaks to the fine stretching ability of this dough), which suited my fancy just fine.

DenaliPete,

I look forward to the photos of the next pizza.

BTW, what is the size of your stone and how many pizzas did you make with Jerry's recipe? I assume you used volume measurements.

Peter

Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: DenaliPete on May 06, 2008, 07:21:40 PM
Pete-zza,

I feel I should be a little more specific in regards to my stone and peel;

My problem partially lay with my peel, which is 12 inches, whereas my stone is roughly 15 inches.  I also must chalk a large part of my need to roll the crust to pilot error.  I'm still very much a novice in the pizza world and am still very sketchy with the actual shaping of my pie.  They often end up a little more like a rounded out rectangle than  a circular pie that many people are used to.  Had I a bit more experience shaping the dough I may not have had any problem fitting the skin on my peel.

I also ran into a slight bit of trouble when transferring from the peel to the stone, so my placement on the stone wasn't perfect and I had a small portion of the  pizza hanging off the stone.  I also ended up with some toppings just spilling directly onto the stone, which is no fun.  I suspect that next time I'll have to be more liberal with my use of flour on the paddle.

I split my dough into two as per Jerry's instructions, and only made one pizza last night, leaving the other  to sit in the fridge, I have it warming up on the countertop as we speak.  I'm beginning to believe that I could split the dough into thirds next time and still come up with a decent sized pie. 

Your assumption of volumetric measurements is correct.  In all my recipes I've taken to measuring by volume rather than weight...this is more than anything due to my own inexperience.  To be honest, looking at the numbers by weight as well as measuring hydration, etc. kinda makes my head spin.
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: Pete-zza on May 06, 2008, 08:17:17 PM
DenaliPete.

Jerry's dough is a high hydration dough, but your results should improve as you gain more experience handling such doughs. You also have to act fast in dressing the pizza to minimize the likelihood of the dough sticking to the peel. You might try using some semolina flour on your peel in lieu of regular flour. Or you can dress the pizza on a sheet of parchment paper before depositing the pizza onto the stone.

I asked about the use of volume measurements because it is fairly easy to downsize Jerry's recipe to make 12" pizzas if that is what you are after. I think I can help you with that if you are interested.

Peter
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: DenaliPete on May 06, 2008, 08:34:56 PM
That would be great Pete-zza.  I think that'd be right up my alley.

I'm guessing that you're right about needing a little more experience handling high hydration doughs.  My usual recipe is much less moist so I had a little trouble accomodating to that.

I currently have a new poolish in the works that I changed a little bit from Jerry's, and I also have another set of his in the works.  I will be sure to keep you posted on the results.
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: Pete-zza on May 06, 2008, 09:08:48 PM
DenaliPete,

Are you using barley malt syrup or honey? And what brand and type of flour and what kind of salt (e.g., table salt, Morton's or Diamond Crystal Kosher) are you using, and how many pizzas do you want to make?

Peter
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: Mad_Ernie on May 11, 2008, 04:14:13 PM
Well, I finally got around to trying JerryMac's dough recipe.  Unfortunately, I got started late in the day, so by the time the dough was ready, it was getting late, so I ended up refrigerating it. :(

Here is what my preferment looked like
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: Mad_Ernie on May 11, 2008, 04:15:51 PM
Here is the initial prep of my JerryMac pizza.  I used some cubed ham and Italian sausage as toppings.
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: Mad_Ernie on May 11, 2008, 04:20:32 PM
Here are some final shots.  Tasted great!  I noticed the spring in the crust, but it did not seem as much as I have observed in previous posts.  I attribute that to either waiting 2 days to make the pizza, or possibly overworking the crust a little.  Overall, though, nice dough recipe.  Very flavorful.  I give it a B+/A-.  :chef:

Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: Ian J on May 13, 2008, 08:05:40 AM
Hi Jerry,

Being from the UK I struggle to find many of the ingredients on this forum.

For example:

No King Arthur Flour & strongest bread style flour I have found is 13.8%
No 6in1 tomatoes or any other brands favoured on the forum.
Very hard to find decent pepperoni.  I have ended up using a blend of 2 to get the right balance of smokiness and spiciness.

Regarding the above if anyone from the UK can recommend brands please le me know.


I have been trying out a few of the recipes on the board with varying success, none that I tried though featured a starter as I didnít feel confident enough to maintain one.

However as this recipe included a very easy to make starter I decided to give it a go.

So far I have made the poolish and mixed it in with the remainder of the ingredients.

The poolish looked exactly as shown in this thread.

It is currently having itís 1st 90 minute rise.

I will split this to make 3 pizzas as I only have a pizza oven with a 12 inch stone (similar to the G3 Ferrari ovens)


Ian
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: JerryMac on May 13, 2008, 08:48:49 AM
Mad_Ernie,

Great lookin Pie  ;) ;) ;)

Thanks for the comps and the cup  ;D ;D

Mangia Bene  :chef:
Jerry
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: JerryMac on May 13, 2008, 08:50:22 AM
Ian,

Glad to see your tryin the dough  :D

Let us know how it turns out  :)

Mangia Bene  :chef:
Jerry
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: Mad_Ernie on May 13, 2008, 09:41:51 AM
Mad_Ernie,

Great lookin Pie  ;) ;) ;)

Thanks for the comps and the cup  ;D ;D

Mangia Bene  :chef:
Jerry

You're quite welcome.  Thank you for the recipe! :D
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: Ian J on May 13, 2008, 10:16:13 AM
Must be the warm weather here but the dough rose enough to use well before the 2nd 90 minutes rest.

The balls were very nice to work with, easy to stretch and had great window paining (much better than I have ever had before)

Each made one 12 inch pie no problem, the oven spring was the best ever.  The rim on each skin was approximately 1/4 inch before baking, but rose to an inch and more.  The crush browned very nicely and had a superb crunch with a creamy soft interior.

Far and away the best same day pizza I have ever made, I would even go so far as to say probably the best compared to overnight.

I now need to find some better quality sauce and toppings as this dough has really upped the stakes.

I have in the past used a bread machine on dough setting for pizzas and found that it was never as good as hand kneading.  I mixed this in the bread maker and it easily beat anything Iíve hand mixed.

I would recommend this dough to anyone with a bread maker.

Many thanks for this recipe Jerry

Ian
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: briterian on May 13, 2008, 10:23:38 AM
Based on the success of the jerry's starter/sponge/poolish, I was motivated to goto sourdo.com last night and order the Italian starter. It should arrive early next week.

Thanks Jerry for making me take it up another notch. I'll document how it goes.   

My wife comments that the dough was my most 'flavorful' yet and I'm sure that was the main reason.  I'm also intrigued by the use of 2 tsp of yeast. For so many years, I've been told to go super light on the yeast - and with the additional yeast, I've found it to not impart any negative qualities.
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: JerryMac on May 15, 2008, 09:20:54 AM
Ian,

Glad it worked out so well  ;D ;D

Mangia Bene  :chef:

Jerry
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: JerryMac on May 15, 2008, 09:24:15 AM
briterian,

On the yeast thingey, Whatever, it works and I am definitely not the one to knock anything that Works  :-D :-D :-D

Mangia Bene :chef:
Jerry
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: Ian J on October 06, 2008, 09:02:43 AM
Well I couldn't wait any longer, my pizza oven died a while ago and I've not had the cash required to purchase a replacement.

I bit the bullet and bough a pizza stone to try in my home oven, this is my 1st attempt using the Jerrymac dough method. (JM's is my favourite recipe/technique, this is the 1st time I have made it in my standard oven

The top was done to perfection with a lovely snap to the crust, but the bottom was very underdone, soft and I would have to say doughy.

I've tried to get a fibrament stone but the company never replied to my emails regarding shipping to the UK.

There are some stones being tested on the forum where the bottom of the pizza's cooked have been overdone compared to the top (on a modified Little Black Egg) I'm wondering if one of those would work better for my current circumstances.

FYI. The stone was at the top of the oven with the broiler turned on full, any lower down and the pizza cooked way too slow and was like a cracker.

Ian
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: Pete-zza on October 06, 2008, 11:10:11 AM
Ian,

What is the maximum temperature that you are able to get out of your oven, and how long do you preheat the stone at the top of the oven under broiler heat?

And what size pizzas did you make using the stone?

Peter
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: Ian J on October 06, 2008, 11:41:34 AM
My oven max temp according to the manual is around 260 centigrade (but I don't have a thermometer to confirm this)

I heated the oven for over an hour,  the thermostat had clicked on/off a few times.

The stones are 15" and the pizzas were 12", I bought 2 stones as they were on offer and placed them together for larger thermal mass as each is only 1cm deep.

I tried separating the stones one each above/below but that just made things worse, the pizza took much longer to cook on top and was dry as biscuit.

Although the base shown was undercooked it tasted very nice.
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: Pete-zza on October 06, 2008, 12:23:13 PM
Ian,

Your oven temperature (260 degrees C, or 500 degrees F) should be sufficient for baking a JerryMac pizza. 

Not too long ago, member pwaldman suggested a new method for baking his pizzas, which he discussed at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6585.msg56478.html#msg56478 in relation to other methods he has used. Is the method you used like the new method he describes at the above thread?

Another possibility that occurs to me is to use a pizza screen, if you have one, together with a pizza stone. The stone would be placed at the lowest oven position and preheated for an hour at 260 degrees C. The pizza is initially baked on the pizza screen at the topmost oven position. When the rim of the pizza starts to expand and turn a light brown (the cheeses should be starting to bubble), the pizza is shifted off of the screen (which can then be removed from the oven) to the preheated stone to get the desired degree of bottom crust browning and crispiness.

A further alternative is to bake the pizza directly on the preheated pizza stone and shift it to the topmost oven position when the bottom of the crust is as you like it so that the top of the pizza can finish baking if such is needed (with or without using the broiler).

JerryMac's recipe produces a very high hydration dough (between about 65-70% by my estimation) so you may need to do some experimenting with bake times, temperatures, stone/screen options, and positioning within the oven to achieve the desired results.

Please keep us posted if you find a workable solution.

Peter
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: Ian J on October 10, 2008, 06:09:23 PM
I think I have solved my problem.  I placed one of the pizza stones on a gas ring and cautiously put the burner on half way, before long the stone was incredibly hot, I took my pizza from the oven (top nicely cooked) and slit it onto the stone.  Within 20 seconds there was black char blister marks on the bottom and it was golden brown in other areas.

I now have to work out whether it is better to cook the bottom or top first, after that I will post more pictures.
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: JerryMac on October 11, 2008, 12:15:25 AM
Hey Guys,

100 replies  :D Glad to see people are havin fun with this  ;D

Mangia Bene  :chef:

Jerry
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: Ian J on October 11, 2008, 07:04:09 AM
It's a great recipe and the flavours developed from the Poolish really make the crust.

Many thanks Jerry

Ian
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: JerryMac on October 16, 2008, 11:22:05 PM
Ian J,

No, Thank You :)

I'm still makin my dough this way and I see absoutely no reason to change it :)

Again, Thank You Ian !!!!!!!!!!

Mangia Bene  :chef:
Jerry
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: JerryMac on October 16, 2008, 11:51:22 PM
abatardi,

I'm sorry there are Soooo Many "new or first time posters" on this Forum  ??? ??? ???

Mangia Molto Bene  :chef:

Jerry
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: candyman on October 17, 2008, 10:23:02 AM
Should be getting my 50# bag of flour today... can't wait to try this recipe.  It will be great to have a same day recipe that compares to the extended cold rise ones.  Post pics and update when I make it.  Thanks again for the recipe (love VM, much easier).

Joe
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: Pete-zza on October 17, 2008, 10:32:37 AM
I'm still makin my dough this way and I see absoutely no reason to change it :)

Jerry,

I'm sorry. I couldn't help myself: http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6515.msg62814.html#msg62814

Peter
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: JerryMac on October 20, 2008, 09:16:26 AM
Pete,

That is really interesting  ::)

You know, I had actually thought about trying a procedure just like that with my "Formula" but never got around to it  ???

Glad to see it did work for all the "cold retard" people  :-D

Mangia Bene,
Jerry
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: Hops099 on November 09, 2008, 02:13:30 PM
After reading all the rave reviews of JerryMac's recipe, I decided to give it a try last night.  I was very pleased with the results. 

Once the dough was ready to go, I used two 12" foil pizza pans (the disposable type from the grocery store) mostly for shaping purposes.  (I'm terrible at dough shaping and with this being a high hydration dough and all...).  One pizza was sausage/green pepper and the other pepperoni (Hormel)/black olive.  The sauce was from Aurelio's (picked up on a recent visit to Chicago) and scamorza cheese topped it off (it's my new favorite).  Both pizzas were cooked at 500 degrees in their foil pans for approximately 7 mins and then finished on a Fibrament-D stone for a few minutes to crisp up.

Pics attached; I used a bit too much dough for the sausage/green pepper and accidently left some bench flour on one side of the crust, so it's not the best looking pizza.  (My attempts to get a close up of the crust didn't turn out, maybe it's time for a new camera.)  The pepperoni turned out much nicer with a bit less dough.  Visual appeal aside, the proof was in the tasting and they both tasted great!

Thanks again, JerryMac... I'll definitely be making this dough again!
Hops
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: Ian J on March 21, 2009, 08:54:17 PM
It was my birthday recently and my partner bought me one of these.

It's very similar to my old pizza oven that went pop (actually a big blue flash and smell of burning plastic) but has a different stone and the upper element stays on for longer when up to temperature.

I'll be giving it a run in this week and will post photos of any pizzas made.

Ian
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: Ronzo on April 12, 2009, 02:21:00 AM
I can't sleep tonight, so I'm making this recipe.

The poolish is fermenting as I type.

I'll try to remember to take pics when it's all done and I have made the pizza.


Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: Ronzo on April 14, 2009, 12:40:29 AM
I think I messed something up  along the way on this one, because the way it came out did not taste anywhere near as appetizing as others have experienced.

I might post the pics later.



I did get an idea from this recipe though. I took the NY Pizza recipe on the main part of the site and made a poolish with half the flour, a tsp of yeast, all the water, and about 4 tablespoons of my own starter, and let that ferment for about 4 hours at room temp, then added the rest of the flour (and minus the oil). I mixed it, then kneaded it for about 15-20 minutes, and popped it in the fridge for another 5 hours.

I just made a pizza from part of the batch and I have to say it's the best tasting crust I've made so far. Light, airy, crisp, browned nice, had great flavor. I'm going to make another tomorrow with the other part of the batch after it's fermented in the fridge overnight and see how that comes out.
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: Pete-zza on April 14, 2009, 10:25:30 AM
Ron,

Can you describe the timeline you used to make JerryMac's recipe? I'd also like to see the photos if you can post them.

Peter
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: Ronzo on April 15, 2009, 12:15:50 AM
Pete,

Here are some pics of the ones I made with the recipe on this thread.

Not sure what you mean by timeline. I thought I followed the recipe to the letter, but the end result tells me I must not have.


The square pie is the first pie from that batch. The (more) round one is the second pie. Still working on my forming technique. Some pies are better than others ;)


The taste of the crust of both pies was flat. No depth of flavor, really.
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: Ronzo on April 15, 2009, 12:16:13 AM
Another of the square pie
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: Ronzo on April 15, 2009, 12:17:57 AM
Round(ish) pie (2nd of the batch).

Got some romano and parmagiano on it already.


See the crust is cracked and lumpy on the edges?
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: Ronzo on April 15, 2009, 12:19:09 AM
side profile of a slice from the round pie...


Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: Pete-zza on April 15, 2009, 10:19:44 AM
Ron,

I asked about the timeline because when you posted in Reply 110 you said the the poolish was fermenting. That was at about 1:21 AM. You didn't indicate what time you started the poolish but you should have been baking the pizzas about eight hours later--or about breakfast time. If you didn't, then changing the rules would have changed the results. Looking at the photos, I think you should have gotten more crust color and, under normal conditions, you should have gotten more crust flavor.

Peter
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: Ronzo on April 16, 2009, 10:56:35 AM
Yeah, I have fits of insomnia lately from time to time so I find myself doing odd things at odd hours. lol

I started the poolish about midnight or so. Mixed the ingredients about 5 or 6 am, I can't recall (it's all a blur). I might have let it ferment too long, maybe? Or... maybe I was so out of it from the lack of sleep that I screwed up the measurements. ;)

It was really sticky wet and tough to work with. I'm not really that experienced with wet dough yet. The crust was bland, like I said, but it was also a little crackly (for lack of a better word). It was REALLY hard.

I dunno... I'll try it again under more controlled circumstances and see what happens, I guess.
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: The Slice on April 18, 2009, 01:04:23 PM
Ronzo, what type of oven arrangement did you have when you made those pies?
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: JerryMac on April 23, 2009, 11:49:02 PM
Hey Guys,

I am soooooooooo glad this thread has inspired sooooooooo  many people to think about making such great Pizza !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Mangia Bene All  :chef:
Jerry

PS for anybody concerned, I'm still makin my dough this way and doubt that I will ever change it !!!!   I'm "Satisfied", and what more can you ask from Pizza ?????
 
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: NY pizzastriver on April 24, 2009, 08:24:22 AM
It's a great recipe, Favoloso! It's so good I make mine with a big "M" on them in tribute. If I had the 16" stone it would have said "JERRYMAC ROCKS"., but at 12" I could only fit the "M".

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6515.msg72813.html#msg72813
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: Ronzo on April 26, 2009, 01:34:18 AM
Ronzo, what type of oven arrangement did you have when you made those pies?

Same oven arrangement I have for every other pizza I make. Electric oven, 500 degrees, quarry tiles near the top of the oven, cooked until the cheese began to brown on peaks. I get browning on the crust for other recipes.

I think I just screwed this attempt up... the more time that passes, the more I'm convinced of that.
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: parallei on April 26, 2009, 11:23:45 AM
This thread inspired me to try JerryMac's one day dough again.  You Da Man, Jerry!  I'm sending the recipe and how to photo's/instructions to a friend who wants to give it a try.  Bellow is a 10-inch JerryMac from last night...
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: NY pizzastriver on May 18, 2009, 01:46:32 PM

Put dough into an oiled bowl, cover with plastic and let rise 1 1/2 Hrs.
at room temp.

Turn dough out onto lightly oiled surface, divide into 2 balls.

Transfer balls to lightly floured surface, dust lightly with flour,
cover with plastic and let rise 1 1/2 Hrs.

Jerry, I meant to ask you something on this stage. After first 1.5 hr rest as ball you have quite a lot of billowy rise. Peter says he punches down and re-balls, I have been punching down, but in reviewing your original recipe above you don't mention punching down at all. It sounds like you are  just re-balling here, so can you clarify?

Sorry if this has already been addressed, I can't seem to find it.
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: JerryMac on May 25, 2009, 09:52:48 PM
pizzastriver,

I don't "Punch Down" my dough, I try at all times too keep from "Degassing" the dough too much   >:(

I simply roll it out of the bowl, devide it in half and make two balls, always being as gentle as possible  ;D

Thanks,

Mangia Bene  :chef:
Jerry
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: pizza eater on June 09, 2009, 01:28:07 AM
This was the first pizza i have ever made. Thanks Jerry for the recipe, it was great.
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: JerryMac on June 13, 2009, 09:21:17 PM
pizza eater,

Great lookin Pie  ;) Glad you liked the dough  ;D

Mangia Bene  :chef:
Jerry
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: NY pizzastriver on June 14, 2009, 08:28:13 AM
pizzastriver,

I don't "Punch Down" my dough, I try at all times too keep from "Degassing" the dough too much   >:(

I simply roll it out of the bowl, devide it in half and make two balls, always being as gentle as possible  ;D

Thanks,

Mangia Bene  :chef:
Jerry

Hmmm. With the yeast level as high as it is I would venture you could use the ball for a friendly catch in the yard for 10 minutes, still having enough bubbles to hold its own with a fine champagne. ( lol )

I mean after the first 1.5 hr rise it's a near beach ball! I can't see not degassing and reshaping there. After the second rise I'm gentle, maybe you thought I meant there (?), but I can't imagine how voluminous it would be by then without the first deflation.

Anyway, hope all is well with you and Jerri!  ;D

Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: sourdough girl on June 14, 2009, 02:58:06 PM
Hmmm. With the yeast level as high as it is I would venture you could use the ball for a friendly catch in the yard for 10 minutes, still having enough bubbles to hold its own with a fine champagne. ( lol )

I mean after the first 1.5 hr rise it's a near beach ball! I can't see not degassing and reshaping there. After the second rise I'm gentle, maybe you thought I meant there (?), but I can't imagine how voluminous it would be by then without the first deflation.

Anyway, hope all is well with you and Jerri!  ;D

Jim,
I have made Jerry's dough, like, a BAZILLION times, (well, that might be a BIT of hyperbole!) and I have never punched it down after its huge first rise.  I just roll it out of the bowl onto a lightly oiled plastic "cutting board" sheet (which does degas it a little bit), portion it with a bench knife and gently ball it up.  I love that light, airy crust, so I figured that punching down wasn't necessary.  But, if you still get results you're pleased with after punching it down, I guess there's no harm done!  My question is:  have you tried it both ways?  And if you have, what was the end result with and without punch down?

~sd
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: NY pizzastriver on June 15, 2009, 08:43:34 AM
Jim,
I have made Jerry's dough, like, a BAZILLION times...

I was just in Brazil and I made it there, so you could say I too have made it on "Brazilian Time".  ;D


Quote
My question is:  have you tried it both ways?  And if you have, what was the end result with and without punch down?

A good question, and sadly a hard one for me to answer, lol. I know in recent times I punched down, but I wonder if I was more gentle in first time around. (ie. Who's protocol was I reading at that exact step) If I wasn't such a war torn old reprobate I'd surely recall better.

Yeah I do get good results, loads of bubbles, must be the abundance of air that can only come from hand kneading. :-) Maybe one day soon I'll do a side by side comparison test and report back. Today I have to knead 10 pounds of dough in five 2 pound batches, so just not now, ...but soon!


Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: NY pizzastriver on June 16, 2009, 02:45:51 PM
SD girl,

     Well I awoke today at 6AM and made a batch of 3 Mac pies for lunch today. This after 16 Gluten boys yesterday. Man are my arms tired! I did it easy, no punch, and yeah you're right it's not that big. They are harder to stretch as they are more wrinkly that way, but once it starts to stretch it's fine. They were great, and I do like them without the punch down better. This is also how I did it to begin with, I remember now. Either way works, just for the record, but this is airier.

     I had the daughter of a friend here who is 14. She said "This pizza reminds me of Domino's, but way better". I know what she means in the American style sense, and it's great to beat Domino's on a same day dough! Hat's off again to Jerry, best same day dough bar-none.

Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: JerryMac on June 19, 2009, 11:44:38 PM
NY pizzastriver,

Thanks for the concenrn  ;) Jerri is doing WELL  ;D ;D ;D ;D

Yeast, Yeast, Yeast !!!!!  What the hell is the "Phobia" some of the people on this forum have about "Yeast"  ??? ??? ??? ???

My "Recipe" uses "2 tsp" of yeast, the standard amount used in most "Bread" recipes !!!!!!!!!

Remember, mine is a one day dough !!!!!!!!

Please People, remember, use Yeast correctly and it is your Friend  !!!!!!!!

No one would ever consider using "2 tsp" of Yeast in a long ferment dough !!!!!!!!!!!

Ramember, "Yeast is Your Friend", if used correctly  :-D :-D :-D :-D :-D

Mangia Bene  :chef:
Jerry
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: Bistro on December 10, 2009, 11:00:12 PM
Jerry
Who would have ever guessed I would have started a thread this long just by asking you to post your newest dough formula. Sounds like it has turned out quite nicely.
PS some of us just read and don't post because the ? has nearly always been answered previouly. LOL
Hope your doing well
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: Gags on January 05, 2010, 12:01:25 AM
Thank you all for posting your insights and pies!  I'm still very much a novice, so your lessons are much appreciated.  I keep coming back to this recipe, not only for its great taste, but also for its ease of kneading & shaping.  JerryMac, Pete, et al, perhaps I could ask for your advice again?

My primary goal at this point is to get more browning and a more flavorful crust
 
Ingredients:
Flour:    KASL
Cheese: First Street Gold, Feather Shredded, Part Skim, Low Moisture Mozzarella I buy at Smart & Final (great taste!)
Sauce:  My own seasoned "San Marzano" brand (white and purple can) and another pie with plain 6-in-1
Other:  honey, bottled water, SAF IDY, extra virgin olive oil, 1tsp table salt

Steps:

1) Mixed preferment according to directions, let sit for about 3 hours in ~70F room. 
2) Mixed remaining ingredients in bowl, but mistakenly added remaining 1.5c flour all at once.
3) Since I don't have a stand mixer (yet), I used a wooden spoon to mix slowly for about 5 mins.  I saw the ball forming and pulling away from the sides.  At this point, I took out of bowl and put on floured bench.
4) Using sparse amounts of flour on the board, I kneaded for about 15 minutes by hand.
5) I divided into 2 equal portions and let them rest in oiled, covered bowls for 90mins at room temp.
6) Put in fridge for 24 hours.
7) Removed from fridge, sat for about 3 hours at room temp, still in covered bowls.
8. Started oven with 14" stone on bottom rack, oven came to 550F in about 20 mins, then continued to heat for about 1 hour, 10 mins at 550F.
9) I also had a cookie sheet on another rack, about 6" above the stone, to reflect heat down.
10 )Dressed skin on cornmeal dusted peel to form a 12" pie.  Didn't oil skin or crust prior to dressing with sauce / cheese.
11) Didn't use enough cornmeal and it snagged as it was going on the stone, hence the odd shape of Pie 1.
12) Let stone recover for about 10-15mins and repeated with Pie 2.

Observations:
- The dough is easy to manage, but very loose and is hard to throw without getting too thin.
- Great taste overall and pie 1 had more crust flavor, I'm fairly certain that this was due to fresh, hot stone browning it a bit more than Pie 2.
- I also varied sauce from Pie 1 to Pie 2...from my seasoned San Marzano blend to straight 6-in-1 (finally found a store that had it!)
- The center crust was too thin on Pie 1.
- The cheese was browning too fast and the crust couldn't keep up.
- The cheese, no matter how little I use, tends to form a solid layer and may hold in too much sauce moisture?
- The dough was great while hot, but then get very leathery.


Could you please offer your thoughts on these questions and offer any other suggestions?
 
a) Which of the two would yield a browner crust - honey or malt syrup?
b) Do you think I overkneaded the dough and that's why it was tough when cooled a bit?
c) Is anyone able to throw this dough, or should I just keep it low and let the board support some of its weight?
d) The dough didn't rise much on the stone...could it be my IDY is getting too old (6 months, stored in freezer), I shouldn't have divided it, or I shouldn't have stored dough for 24 hours and yeast was exhausted?
e) Should I go with a lower temp to let the crust brown more? (I'll also try removing my upper heat reflector cookie sheet.)
f)  How long should I let the stone recover?

Again, a great recipe - Thanks much!  Just trying to chase that "perfect" pie!!  LOL!! --Ryan
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: scott123 on January 05, 2010, 11:53:47 AM
Gags,

This is a same day dough, not an overnight one.  From what I can tell, by refrigerating the dough overnight you fermented it too much. Some fermentation is a good thing, but too much fermentation creates an excess of acid. Acid prevents browning.

As far as your other questions go:

a) Which of the two would yield a browner crust - honey or malt syrup?

Honey has a greater percentage of fructose- fructose browns better than other sugars- so the Honey would brown better.

b) Do you think I overkneaded the dough and that's why it was tough when cooled a bit?

There's a lot of different opinions on proper kneading times, but, from the research that I've done, I firmly believe that long cool rises (overnight refrigeration) have the same impact on gluten as medium kneading, so a long cool rise + regular kneading is counterproductive. If I know I'm going to refrigerate the dough overnight, I'll scale back the kneading considerably.

So, yes, i do feel that you overkneaded your dough, but... that's not necessarily why the crust was tough. It could have played a part, but there are a host of other reasons that could be the culprit as well.

d) The dough didn't rise much on the stone...could it be my IDY is getting too old (6 months, stored in freezer), I shouldn't have divided it, or I shouldn't have stored dough for 24 hours and yeast was exhausted?

There's lot of opinions on yeast storage as well, but, from my research on the subject, extended freezing is highly detrimental.  Ideally, you shouldn't store yeast at all. If you have to store it, I'd go with the fridge. Jarred yeast is also better than packets.

e) Should I go with a lower temp to let the crust brown more? (I'll also try removing my upper heat reflector cookie sheet.)

A lower temp will give you less oven spring which will translate into an even tougher crust. I would focus on the overfermentation issue and not mess too much with your baking setup- for now.

f)  How long should I let the stone recover?

A thick enough stone should require no recovery time.  How thick is your stone? It would help us gauge the temperature of your stone if you took pictures of the bottom of the crusts. Next time, do a bottom crust shot (for both pies)
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: Pete-zza on January 05, 2010, 02:29:29 PM
Ryan,

I agree with scott123 that by changing the rules of fermentation as you did, by using a combination of room temperature prefermentation, a period of room temperature fermentation of the finished dough, and a long period of cold fermentation, you penalized your results in terms of crust coloration and texture. The improved crust flavor was due to the substantial amount of flavor contributing fermentation byproducts. However, although I am not a chemist, I believe the reduced crust coloration was not due solely to the below-average pH of the finished dough but a combination of below-average pH and low residual sugar levels in the dough at the time of baking. According to Professor Raymond Calvel, in his book The Taste of Bread, at page 57:

"...in the final analysis the pH is related to the level of residual sugars present in the patons just before baking. These residual sugars are the remainder of those that fed dough fermentation, and they fulfill important functions during the baking process. The level at which they are present plays an important role in determining the extent of oven spring during the first moments of baking. They also contribute to the Maillard reaction and caramelization phenomenon that produce crust coloration.
   Generally a below-average pH coincides with a lack of residual sugars, which translates into a deficiency in oven spring. This problem is evidenced by a slight decrease in loaf volume and in the end by a lack of crust coloration accompanied by excessive crust thickness. The bread will also exhibit a significant lack of aroma, the crust will have less taste, and the crumb will be slightly less flavorful."

Professor Calvel was speaking in relation to bread dough--and one without any sugar--but I believe the pH-residual sugar relationship and its effect on final results applies with equal vigor to pizza dough. I also know from substantial experience making cold fermented doughs with windows of from a few days to as much as 23 days, and without any sugar whatsoever in the dough, that it is possible to get very good crust coloration even at pH levels that might be on the fairly low side. If you scan the photos at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,3985.0.html, you will see what I mean.

On the matter of honey versus barley malt syrup, I have found that honey works well in pizza doughs, including those that have very short room temperature fermentations, and contributes nicely to crust coloration, because of the simple sugars that are more readily available as food for the yeast than, say, table sugar (sucrose), which requires a time consuming conversion to simple sugars. A good example of the effects of honey on crust coloration can be seen at Reply 52 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6758.msg66312.html#msg66312. If the honey is a dark honey (I used a dark Texas wildflower honey), it should also yield a slightly darker crumb. However, barley malt syrup, which is very dark, even darker than most honeys I have seen, can have a pronounced effect of crust/crumb coloration. I believe that you can see that effect at Reply 56 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,2061.msg40413.html#msg40413. Compare the color in the crumb of the pizza shown at Reply 56 with the color of the crumb of my JerryMac pizza (using the same Texas honey) at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6515.msg55855.html#msg55855.

I agree with scott123 that fresh yeast is perhaps better than yeast stored in the freezer, but I do not believe that that was a material factor in your results. I routinely store my dry yeast in the freezer, and have been doing so for many years, without any ill effects that I can determine.

When I first attempted JerryMac's dough recipe, I concluded that the hydration of the final dough was around 68%. Unless you use a lot of bench flour, such a dough will be difficult to toss and spin, as I noted at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6515.msg55855.html#msg55855. No doubt your excessive fermentation also contributed to the difficulty in handling the dough you made.

I think that you will find that if you follow JerryMac's instructions as he gave them you should get improved results. It is possible to modify JerryMac's dough recipe to make a cold fermented version of his recipe, but that entails a rather dramatic deconstruction and reconstruction of the recipe. You can see an example of how this can be done, in the context of a sponge preferment, using a version of JerryMac's recipe, at Reply 28 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,6515.msg62814.html#msg62814.

Peter
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: Gags on January 05, 2010, 10:33:56 PM
Gents,

Thank you much for the quick feedback and guidance!

On the yeast, I'll get a fresh package of the SAF IDY, but I might also give my current yeast one more try, just to limit the number of variables as I'll follow the same-day baking guidance.

On shaping, I now remember reading Pete's post about how the high hydration level made it somewhat difficult to handle.  (Also impressed with your ability to reference so many threads in your responses. You must be a lawyer!!)

I'll stick with the honey and note coloration as well as to see how properly fed yeast behaves and the effect on the crust texture.

Finally, I'll post up the pix of my next experiments!



Some side notes...

I mentioned that I finally found 6-in-1 tomatoes (available at Giuliano's deli in Gardena, CA).  I really like the flavor when compared to my seasoned (heavy on the oregano, honey, and garlic powder) sauce.  The 6-in-1 has such a clean flavor!

Lastly, I picked up some fire brick today - is it possible to use these in lieu of the smallish pizza stone I currently use? 

I see on the forum where people use these as stone walls inside their home ovens.  I was thinking of using these as my deck, so I could make a bigger pie and also not have to be so precise when loading.  Think its okay to cook right on these?



Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: scott123 on January 06, 2010, 01:38:38 AM
Ooooooh, fire brick. Very nice.

Those should work beautifully for pizza.  What's the thickness of your current stone? 1/2"? 3/4"? If it's 1/2, then you should see a pretty dramatic improvement. If it's 3/4... it won't be a huge difference, but you will see an improvement. I was just brushing up on the technical specs of fire brick vs baking stones tonight.  Baking stones tend to have better conductivity, but fire brick has all that beautiful thermal mass.

Because of it's lower conductivity, fire brick will take longer to pre-heat, but once it's pre-heated, it will hold it's heat for a while (it should resolve your recovery concerns). Although an hour and a half might be a little overkill for a 3/4" stone, I'm certain you're going to need it for the brick.  How concerned are you by large utility bills?  :) The first time you bake with the brick, you might want to go with 1 hour 45, see how it goes, and then dial it back.

550 is the absolute highest your oven will go, right?  ;)

Low alumina firebrick (the kind you have) tends to be fairly gritty and rough, so I like to hit up the baking side with a little coarse sandpaper. After I do that, I wash them vigorously with clean water, let them dry, arrange them in the oven and then bring them up to temp extremely slowly. Bakingstone.com has a pretty good guide for curing new stones.

Are all those bricks yours?  If you have enough, you definitely want to go with two shelves (hearth and ceiling).  You might have to play around with the height of the ceiling, but I would go with 10-12".  Make sure you're comfortable launching and retrieving pies in whatever vertical space you create, though.  Arrange the stones so that they are flush with each other and flat.  I used folded up aluminum foil to prop up some bricks that were a bit low. A level helps. Keep an eye on your oven shelf and make sure the weight isn't stressing it/making it sag. I don't think you'll have a problem with one layer, but it's still something to be aware of.  A fire brick deck can add up in weight.

I had to cut my bricks in order to form them into a 16" deck (to fit my 17" deep oven). Since I didn't have equipment myself, I had the store where I bought the bricks cut them for me. It cost more for the cutting than it did for the bricks. Hopefully your oven will be a little more accommodating.

According to Professor Raymond Calvel, in his book The Taste of Bread, at page 57:

"...in the final analysis the pH is related to the level of residual sugars present in the patons just before baking. These residual sugars are the remainder of those that fed dough fermentation, and they fulfill important functions during the baking process. The level at which they are present plays an important role in determining the extent of oven spring during the first moments of baking. They also contribute to the Maillard reaction and caramelization phenomenon that produce crust coloration.
   Generally a below-average pH coincides with a lack of residual sugars, which translates into a deficiency in oven spring. This problem is evidenced by a slight decrease in loaf volume and in the end by a lack of crust coloration accompanied by excessive crust thickness. The bread will also exhibit a significant lack of aroma, the crust will have less taste, and the crumb will be slightly less flavorful."

Peter, I could be wrong about this, but I've always perceived there to be two different processes running synchronously yet somewhat independently in dough- yeast activity and amylase activity.  The amylase activity seems to do it's thing the moment water enters the picture, and, (I think) continues to do it's thing somewhat consistently through changes in temperature (ie refrigeration). The yeast, on the other, slows down as the temperature drops.  That's the beauty of cold fermentation- you're handicapping the yeast while the amylase is creating all that delicious and maillard friendly sugar.

Acid, specifically carbonic acid, is a byproduct of yeast activity.  In theory, I would think one could do a fairly warm fast ferment that produces a dough with the same pH as a dough cold/slow fermented for a far longer time, but, because of all that amylase activity during the cold ferment, the residual sugar would greater.  Same pH different levels of sugar.

Maybe.  I feel very confident talking thermodynamics, and, to an extent rheology, but microbiology and enzymes, not so much. For a product with such few ingredients (bread) it's mind boggling how complicated it is.

Regarding amylase, your post in another thread about autolyses really opened my eyes.  I was, up until today, in the erroneous autolyse includes yeast camp. I'm not sure where I picked that up.  Since an autolyse is just flour and water, might that give the amalyse activity a bit of a head start?
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: Gags on January 06, 2010, 10:57:16 AM
Scott,

Thanks for the info on the brick - that answers my questions!  My current stone is about 5/8" thick, I'm looking for both a larger deck and better recovery, so hopefully the 1.5" thick brick'll do the trick. I was also concerned with the rough surface of them, so I'll knock them down a bit before use.  As they were less than $1 each, I bought 20 of them - as you said, to create both a deck and ceiling (and maybe even a lip around the sides and back of the deck).  And yah, I know from the utility bill the month's in which I'm really trying to dial in my pizza! 

I'm eager to see Pete's response to your question.  If I recall correctly, I tried using this same-day dough once before and, while it looked better, it lacked the flavor of the overnight cold dough....that's why I was trying to cold ferment it.

I'll try out the bricks and post pix...

Thanks!

Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: Pete-zza on January 06, 2010, 12:02:41 PM
scott123,

I agree with everything you said in relation to the Calvel quote, except the part about the carbonic acid, about which I have no special knowledge. The matter of enzyme versus yeast performance comes up from time to time on the forum. One of the earliest posts on this subject came from member pizzanapoletana (Marco), a Neapolitan dough expert and student of that style, at Reply 125 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,1298.msg13410/topicseen.html#msg13410.

Professor Calvel, at page 56 of his book, also talks about how to remedy a problem with low residual sugar, which is something that Ryan might find of interest:

"Whether doughs are leavened with a poolish, by levain-levure (sponge and dough), or with pate fermentee, whenever they undergo an excess of maturation or fermentation it is a good practice to remedy in advance the resulting lack of residual sugars. To do this, add from 0.1% to 0.2% malt extract during mixing--or on very rare occasions from 0.3% to 0.5% sucrose--to reestablish the proper sugar balance."

The malt extract to which Professor Calvel refers in the above quote is diastatic malt, not non-diastatic malt. A similar recommendation on the use of diastatic malt is also made by Didier Rosada toward the end of his article at http://web.archive.org/web/20050829015510/www.cafemeetingplace.com/archives/food4_dec2004.htm, but his recommended usage is 0.5-1%. I once had an interesting discussion with a technical person at the largest U.S. producer of malt products and my recollection is that he recommended around 2-3% (I neglected to ask him, however, whether he was referring to the dry or liquid form of the diastatic malt.) According to the article on malt at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,8308.msg71658.html#msg71658, one should be able to replace one half of the formula sugar with diastatic malt. In my experiments with diastatic malt, I used it on the low side and found that the results were not much improved. I perhaps should have used more but I was concerned that the dough would become excessively slack from overuse of the diastatic malt. Ryan (Gags) might want to keep these considerations in mind if he decides to continue to use his cold fermentation version of JerryMac's recipe.

There have been experiments, including one by me, to try to increase the residual levels of sugars in a water-flour mixture by giving the alpha/beta amylase enzymes more time to work on sugar conversion. See, for example, Reply 69 at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,7740.msg66521.html#msg66521 and also the thread at http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,7770.msg66722.html#msg66722.

I'm sure that JerryMac will confirm all of the above when he reads this post and the few that preceded it. He will perhaps ask us to never darken the door of this thread again :-D.

Peter

Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: scott123 on January 07, 2010, 04:36:33 AM
So Marco believes that amylase activity IS temperature dependent, but... it's a little less temperature dependent than yeast activity.  I can resonate with that.

The carbonic acid premise is relatively new to me as well.  I found it a few weeks back while researching lower pH levels in fermented doughs:

http://www.dakotayeast.com/help-fermentation.html

I don't agree with everything they're saying (I rarely agree with everything anyone's saying ;) ), but... the concept that the primary acidifying agent in non sourdough dough was carbonic acid, formed from dissolved carbon dioxide, seemed to make a little sense to me.

As they were less than $1 each, I bought 20 of them - as you said, to create both a deck and ceiling (and maybe even a lip around the sides and back of the deck).

If you want to play around with a lip, by all means, go for it, but I don't think you're going to see any dramatic difference between having a lip (or a wall) and not having a lip. At least, not if your ceiling is less than 12" high and your bricks are covering a good portion of the shelves.

Here's what bakingstone has to say about walls in a home oven:

http://www.bakingstone.com/faq.php

Quote
Use a second FibraMent stone as the ceiling by placing on the wire rack above.  Adjust the height of the wire rack so it's immediately over the foods you are baking.  Since we have greatly reduced the ceiling height of the oven, and are redirecting the heat back down on the items we are baking, wall inserts are not necessary.
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: scottoliphant on February 20, 2012, 10:49:12 AM
finally posting pictures of my experience with the JerryMac recipe
(a Margherita and a white pie with ricotta, roasted garlic and spinach)
we make this dough about twice a month and absolutely love it.
I follow it pretty much as it's written. The only thing I've changed over the past year is that I've started using our oven's convection bake at 550 and it cooks the pizza perfectly
thanks so much!
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: pythonic on February 21, 2012, 02:51:52 PM
Scott,

What was your cook time with the 550 convection?
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: pythonic on February 21, 2012, 05:52:34 PM
I gave this a shot today however my poolish fermented for around 8hrs and not the 3-4 the recipe called for because i woke up late.  I'm wondering how this would affect my pizza also so if anyone wants to chime in.

Also, I started with the minimum amount of flour to add (1 1/2 cups) to the poolish and it wasn't wet like JerryMac said it should be "almost running off the hook" so I will have to correct that on my next pie.

Oven spring was very good but I overcooked this using convection at 550 degrees (I think at least) and it came out a little dry and burnt on the bottom which messed with the flavor.  Still trying to figure out my new kitchen aid oven.  I will report back when I bake one up to my standards.





Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: scottoliphant on February 22, 2012, 10:36:08 PM
cook time with the convection was about 6-7 minutes, got a little longer as we progressed through the 4 pizzas (always double the recipe and invite over friends!). But, 3-5 minutes quicker than without the convection (at same temp of 550)
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: Lester7009 on March 05, 2012, 10:01:37 PM
 
 I made your Pie today and must say It was one of the Best Pies ever. The Pie had a light crisp crust and light chew. The flavor was great. I think you have
 a great Pie. Thank you for sharing this recipe. It is a great Keeper. I must say it is interesting. The Poolish, the fermentation' etc. Enjoyed doing this. Great Pie. Yes I am a nubile but it turned out great. Followed your directions and came out just right.

Thank You
Lester
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: JerryMac on March 06, 2012, 04:30:06 PM
Thanks Lester, glad you like the dough  :)

Mangia Bene  :chef:
Jerry
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: Chicago Bob on March 09, 2012, 01:01:29 PM
Jerry,

Followed your recipe to a tee......Wowza!.....thanks a million JerryMac !!

Bob
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: JerryMac on March 09, 2012, 06:50:48 PM
Bob,

     You are more than welcome  :) glad you liked the dough and your pies look great  :D

Mangia Bene  :chef:
Jerry
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: censored on March 11, 2012, 03:38:05 AM
Just tried a modified Jerry Mac for the first time. I let the poolish sit over night, and incorporated everything this morning around 10 oclock for a 5:30 bake. The dough was very easy to work with, and very tasty. However, I don't know if it was my extended poolish ferment or not, but both my wife and I felt very gassy afterwards. My thoughts is that it may be too much yeast for my extra long Jerry Mac considering I got a double bulk rise in about an hour and a half, then split into 2 dough balls and still got about a triple mass rise. I think I would definitely make the Jerry Mac again with the extended poolish, but next time I think I will cut the yeast in half. I will probably go with just the tsp in the poolish and that's it. Anyways, thanks for the great recipe, Jerry, everyone loved it!
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: JerryMac on March 12, 2012, 10:41:38 AM
Censored,

     I never cold retarded either the poolish or dough ??? Others have, maybee they can help ya out  ???

Mangia Bene :chef:
Jerry
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: censored on March 12, 2012, 09:53:06 PM
Censored,

     I never cold retarded either the poolish or dough ??? Others have, maybee they can help ya out  ???

Mangia Bene :chef:
Jerry

Actually it was all room temp fermentation, my dough never hit the fridge. It worked great though, it brought out a ton of flavor. I am probably going to make this dough again tomorrow for Wednesday, or Thursday for Friday. I am just going to go with the one tsp IDY in the poolish and see what happens.
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: JerryMac on March 13, 2012, 08:54:59 AM
Censored,

     If your gonna push the fermentation at room temp, cutting the yeast definitely sounds like the way to go  ;)

Mangia Bene  :chef:
Jerry
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: slybarman on April 22, 2012, 06:51:10 PM
Greetings:

I am very new to pizza making. I gave this recipe a try today. Two questions:

1) The dough smelled quite "yeasty" when I went to make the pies. It tasted good, but it was a much stronger yeast smell than I have encountered before. I had used SAF gourmet perfect rise yeast ('cause that's what I found in the pantry :) ). Anyhow, is that common and is it a problem?

2) I cooked the pizza @ 545 on a lodge logic cast iron pizza pan that pre-heated in the oven. The pan was on the bottom rack. The top of the pizza got done before the crust was done enough. The crust would have been just right with about 3 more minutes, but the cheese would have burned. So, can I pre-bake the crust for a few minutes and then top the pizza, or is that a no-no?

Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: Ev on April 22, 2012, 07:54:03 PM
Did you preheat the cast iron pan, or just the oven?
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: slybarman on April 22, 2012, 08:24:04 PM
Yes, the pan was pre-heated.
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: Ev on April 23, 2012, 12:44:06 AM
Yes, the pan was pre-heated.

Sorry, I missed that somehow in your original post.
I,m afraid I'm not sure how to advise you to fix your under baked crust. Hopefully someone experienced in cast iron cooking will chime in.
Good luck.
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: slybarman on April 23, 2012, 10:29:06 AM
OK - I infer from your reply then that most people are not having any trouble getting the crust and toppings to finish at the same time and have not found a need to pre-bake. Perhaps I need to try a stone instead.
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: Ev on April 23, 2012, 10:57:18 AM
Not having tried this recipe myself, I can't really say what the problem might be. My first thought was that maybe your pan was not preheated and then realized in your first post you mentioned that it was. Glancing back though other posts on this thread, it looks like everyone else is having pretty good results. Perhaps you should try a stone instead of the cast iron. That's what I use for many different formulas and it always works pretty well. On the other hand, this just came to me. You may try preheating your cast iron pan under the broiler just before launching the pie. This should get you a pretty fair amount of extra heat on the bottom. Worth a try, I think. Post some pictures of your results if you can.
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: Chicago Bob on April 23, 2012, 07:27:19 PM
follow the recipe and as in reply #148 above.....that is what you'll get.....that was cooked on a stone as per the instructions.

Bob
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: MaximusTG on April 26, 2012, 12:06:27 PM
Decided to try this dough for a change, normally I use a cold-fermented dough. Dough was great to work with, very airy.
Baked at 250 C on a preheated 3 cm thick chamotte clay stone. Switched to broiler (electric oven) on launching the pies. Topped with tomato sauce, salami, mushrooms, bell pepper, basil and shredded mozzarella.
Looked great! Taste was a bit less then my normal pizza's. Was a bit too chewy. But perhaps it had to bake longer and could have baked longer without the broiler on.
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: slybarman on April 29, 2012, 08:14:38 PM

2) I cooked the pizza @ 545 on a lodge logic cast iron pizza pan that pre-heated in the oven. The pan was on the bottom rack. The top of the pizza got done before the crust was done enough. The crust would have been just right with about 3 more minutes, but the cheese would have burned. So, can I pre-bake the crust for a few minutes and then top the pizza, or is that a no-no?

Thanks in advance.

I tried again with a considerably longer pre-heat time. Results were much improved as top and bottom were done at nearly the same time.
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: Lester7009 on May 10, 2012, 07:37:58 AM
Knead at medium speed for about 5 minutes. Dough should freely drop off
dough hook. (almost run)

I use a Kitchen Aid with dough hook. when mixing on # 5 speed it takes about 2 minutes and bottom is slick clean. Should I just keep on # 2 speed . I never could keep mixing for 5 minutes because dough would release from sides in about 3 minutes. Please let me know. Kitchen Aid has speed from 1 to 10
again medium for me is 5.

Thanks
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: bfguilford on May 11, 2012, 04:26:06 PM
Tried this one out as a same-day effort (never know when the urge for a white margherita will hit).

I thought I had followed the instructions, and then discovered that I forgot to add the yeast in the second step. I just about threw the dough out, but decided to resign myself to a really uninspired crust. To my amazement, the crust was fantastic, with a nice oven spring (stone in electric oven at 515). My wife and son, who normally both give their outer crust to me to eat (which I happily do) were completely wowed by it and were trying to steal the other's crust! Both said it was the best pizza I had ever made (which may not be saying much), and my son said it was almost as good as the white margherita at Marco Pizza (our favorite place in Branford, CT) which is really high praise.

I don't know if it made a difference, but I used the pulse technique in my food processor to mix it (saving for a Bosch Compact mixer).

I'm almost afraid to use the right amount of yeast the next time  :pizza:
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: SnuffGear on June 08, 2012, 01:34:01 PM
Hello. Do I need to make any changes to the recipe if I only have KA High Gluten flour?

Thanks
Tom
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: Chicago Bob on June 08, 2012, 02:25:34 PM
I would not let that keep me from trying this great pizza. Jerry mac uses bread flour so you are not that far off....experiment! :)
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: apizza on October 22, 2012, 07:35:19 PM
I saw this thread mentioned recently and remembered I wanted to give it a try. Turned out great. Nice chew and flavor. Has anyone tried this at at temperature above 550? I have an oven that will do 650 and want to know if a higher temp is desireable.
Edit. Flunked resizing again. Hope these pictures are bigger. Thanks Jerrymac.
Marty
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: Lester7009 on January 06, 2013, 02:48:06 PM
 Ok Finally got it. Followed recipe to the Tee baked at 550 for 7 minutes Perfect crust slightly browned cheese, Perfect Pie
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: Chicago Bob on January 06, 2013, 08:39:43 PM
Ok Finally got it. Followed recipe to the Tee baked at 550 for 7 minutes Perfect crust slightly browned cheese, Perfect Pie
No pics Lester? Sounds like it was a great pie....I think Jerry's recipe is awesome.
Bob
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: Lester7009 on January 29, 2013, 05:29:20 PM
http://i755.photobucket.com/albums/xx192/lester7009/IMG_0086_zpsd2aae9af.jpg
Made one pie as per recipe  that evening another Had one pie dough left over placed in Fridgerator for 24 hours next day could not tell that much difference if any. Great Pie. Used Distilled water. Works for me
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: Chicago Bob on January 29, 2013, 05:37:44 PM
http://i755.photobucket.com/albums/xx192/lester7009/IMG_0086_zpsd2aae9af.jpg
Made one pie as recipe  that evening another in Fridgerator for 24 hours next day could not tell that much difference if any
And still no pic man...... ???

 ;D    Bob
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: JerryMac on March 31, 2013, 04:51:49 PM
Hey Guys,

Man, I am sooo glad to see people are still tryin and enjoyin my dough after 6 years ;)  Can't belive it's been that long :) Yea, I,m still usin the same "recipe", haven't changed it and still workin great for me!!

Great lookin pies everybody :)

Mangia Bene
Jerry
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: Lester7009 on April 13, 2013, 10:22:15 AM
(http://i755.photobucket.com/albums/xx192/lester7009/IMG_0086_zpsd2aae9af.jpg) (http://s755.photobucket.com/user/lester7009/media/IMG_0086_zpsd2aae9af.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: gfgman on April 15, 2013, 07:50:11 PM
Thanks for the recipe.  Definitely going to try this week, combining the poolish part of the recipe with my recipe and see what I get. 
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: norma427 on December 29, 2013, 08:26:48 PM
Jerry,

I just wanted to let you know if you visit the forum again I finally got to try your dough.  I tried it in the Blackstone unit.  The other photos are on my Blackstone thread.

The pizza was very tasty.  Thanks!  ;)

Norma
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: waltertore on December 29, 2013, 08:42:26 PM
that is a great looking pizza Norma!  You should bring that unit down to your shop and see what happens.  can you turn out pies fast enough in it to make it practical?  I know nothing about them.  Walter
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: norma427 on December 29, 2013, 08:58:36 PM
that is a great looking pizza Norma!  You should bring that unit down to your shop and see what happens.  can you turn out pies fast enough in it to make it practical?  I know nothing about them.  Walter

Water,

Thanks!  I have been meaning to try out JerryMack's dough for a long while and really liked it.

The pies can be turned out fast enough to make it practical in the BS, but it would be hard to reheat slices and make pies at the same time.  I found that out when I tried it at market.

The photos of the NY style pizzas I made at the Car, Truck and Cycle Event at market are at Reply 198 http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,26483.msg279105.html#msg279105 (http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php/topic,26483.msg279105.html#msg279105)  and the next few posts. 

I can't believe you have not heard of the Blackstone unit.  :o  The regular Blackstone thread has loads of photos of pizzas.  I think you should get a BS to try out.  >:D  That thing can sure outdo my home oven or deck oven.

Norma
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: waltertore on December 29, 2013, 09:22:09 PM
Norma:  those pies sure look good too!  I have heard of the blackstone but haven't looked into them.  A guy was selling 2 new ones on craigslist here a while back.  My deck ovens are killer for what I am doing.  Over the summer I may need to look into one of the blackstone ovens.   Walter
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: norma427 on December 29, 2013, 09:40:48 PM
Water,

I know the deck ovens you have are killer for what you are doing.  I can only wish I could try them.

Norma
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: pizza is love on February 14, 2014, 05:34:56 PM
Been wanting to try this one for awhile. I think I added too much flour, It's still pretty sticky so I guess we will know in a few hours.
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: pizza is love on February 14, 2014, 10:40:40 PM
Pics tomorrow. I think it turned out ok, I liked it but the rest of the family told me to go back to what I do best >:(
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: pythonic on February 15, 2014, 09:39:41 AM
Pics tomorrow. I think it turned out ok, I liked it but the rest of the family told me to go back to what I do best >:(

The Jerry Mac is ok for an emergency dough but if you really want to make a great pie you should do a 15hr room temp poolish followed by a 48-72hr cold rise.

Check out Fazzari's thread.

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=15563.0 (http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=15563.0)


Nate
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: pizza is love on February 15, 2014, 10:02:38 PM
Thanks ill give that one a try later this week.
I had a left over ball from last night in the fridge and tried again this afternoon. The ball was more difficult to open but I think that was a good thing, I used less cheese and I think my sauce last night was not thick enough for this type of dough. The difference was night and day. Today's pie was a success.
No pics of today's but here is last nights.

Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: Michaeliwasaki on May 07, 2017, 02:32:04 AM
Hi Jerry,

I've been making your dough for awhile now and was wondering what you would recommend for 2 x 18" pies?

I tried doubling your recipe listed and it was close but made just a little too much...

Thanks Jerry!
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: Michaeliwasaki on May 07, 2017, 02:34:54 AM
More pics...
Title: Re: Latest Dough Recipe, By Request :)
Post by: Pete-zza on May 07, 2017, 02:36:08 PM
Hi Jerry,

I've been making your dough for awhile now and was wondering what you would recommend for 2 x 18" pies?

I tried doubling your recipe listed and it was close but made just a little too much...

Thanks Jerry!
Michaelwasaki,

Jerry last visited the forum in April, 2013 so it is unlikely that he will respond to your post.

As you might recall, Jerry's pizzas were 13"-14", and his recipe was for two pizzas. For purposes of the math, let us assume that you want to scale up his recipe to make two 18" pizzas. To do this, I would start by scaling up his recipe by (9 x 9)/(7 x 7) = 1.7. There may be some slight differences but I think you might come close.

You can also see other variations of Jerry's recipe in the collection at Reply 1 at https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=11860.msg110289#msg110289.

Peter