Reverse Engineering DiFara's Pizzas

[RHawthorne]

I promise I will read back through this whole thread.  But a quick question first.
I have known a few old timers that made great pizza for a long time.  Both of them used some sort of pre-ferment. 

- One did poolish, mixing water and flour and a hint of yeast - together today and using tomorrow.  Left it on the counter.  He called it his starter.
- The other I am pretty sure used an "old dough", where he tossed some of yesterdays dough in with the batch he was making today.  He said when you get a slice today, you get "some dough that's years old".

Both made dough in the morning and used that same day.  No overnight or two day ferment, unless they had some left over from the day before.

Anyone know if Dom used a pre-ferment or if he used his dough same day he made it?  I am guessing a old place like his doesn't have a giant walk in?

Thanks in advance.  I am so happy to be here.  I am relatively obsessed with making great New York pizza.

I've wondered the same thing myself. From what I've seen, I don't think the dough there looks like it's been fermented for a long time. I think it's possible that they're using a poolish or old dough, but still doing a same day dough. They could be doing a poolish overnight, mixing in the secondary ingredients in the morning, and doing a same day dough.

[Michael2599]

I've wondered the same thing myself. From what I've seen, I don't think the dough there looks like it's been fermented for a long time. I think it's possible that they're using a poolish or old dough, but still doing a same day dough. They could be doing a poolish overnight, mixing in the secondary ingredients in the morning, and doing a same day dough.

I suspect you are right.  I am going to have to do a few experiments.

Best,
Mike

[scott r]

Dom was kind enough to talk one of our forum members (long inactive) Through his dough making process many years ago when he was making really excellent pizza.  It was a same day dough made without a preferment.   He used a combination of Italian 00 flour and all trumps bromated flour.   It was a short rise, but he got great texture.   With a dough like that there is not a ton of flavor, but with the super high quality ingredients for toppings and lots of really great sauce/cheese, quality olive oil, etc you didnt miss it.   

[junep]

I've wondered the same thing myself. From what I've seen, I don't think the dough there looks like it's been fermented for a long time. I think it's possible that they're using a poolish or old dough, but still doing a same day dough. They could be doing a poolish overnight, mixing in the secondary ingredients in the morning, and doing a same day dough.

I too, suspect they they're using a poolish. The son mentioned on one of the many videos I've been watching, about a starter. And since most people don't rave about the taste of the crust, I'm assuming it's not a sourdough starter but may be a overnight poolish. The other possibility could be adding the leftover dough to the new batch?

[9slicePie]

Dom was kind enough to talk one of our forum members (long inactive) Through his dough making process many years ago when he was making really excellent pizza.  It was a same day dough made without a preferment.   He used a combination of Italian 00 flour and all trumps bromated flour.   It was a short rise, but he got great texture.   With a dough like that there is not a ton of flavor, but with the super high quality ingredients for toppings and lots of really great sauce/cheese, quality olive oil, etc you didnt miss it.

This is why I always say the the sauce and cheese is a DEGREE above the crust in level of importance.  Great sauce/cheese can compensate for a sub-par crust; but the reverse isn't true.

[junep]

This is why I always say the the sauce and cheese is a DEGREE above the crust in level of importance.  Great sauce/cheese can compensate for a sub-par crust; but the reverse isn't true.

Years ago, he did use a combination of 75% OO flour and 25% high protein flour. I would guess the high protein flour was all Trumps since so many east coast pizza makers use that flour; but in recent years, it appears, that the dough recipe has changed; and my guess is that it's because that oven is no longer reaching the high temperature it used to reach. His son on a more recent video was pulling out a finished round pie and mentioned that it took 7 minutes to bake. In another message around that time, a customer timed his pie being baked and it was an 8-minute bake. His father once mentioned that a pizza shouldn't take more than 5 minutes to bake, so the new 7 - 8 minute bake, I'm assuming, is because that ancient oven is on its last legs. Also, seeing the mountain of those HR all-purpose bags, assuming again, that those weren't just for bench flour he had always used that flour for, and also seeing also a bag of Caputo 00 chefs flour visible, I think, he had changed the recipe, for the lower temperature bake. The current dough could be something more like 50-50 the 00 Chefs flour and that HR All purpose, or maybe 75 the All-purpose and 25 the 00.

[Chicago Bob]

Years ago, he did use a combination of 75% OO flour and 25% high protein flour. I would guess the high protein flour was all Trumps since so many east coast pizza makers use that flour; but in recent years, it appears, that the dough recipe has changed; and my guess is that it's because that oven is no longer reaching the high temperature it used to reach. His son on a more recent video was pulling out a finished round pie and mentioned that it took 7 minutes to bake. In another message around that time, a customer timed his pie being baked and it was an 8-minute bake. His father once mentioned that a pizza shouldn't take more than 5 minutes to bake, so the new 7 - 8 minute bake, I'm assuming, is because that ancient oven is on its last legs. Also, seeing the mountain of those HR all-purpose bags, assuming again, that those weren't just for bench flour he had always used that flour for, and also seeing also a bag of Caputo 00 chefs flour visible, I think, he had changed the recipe, for the lower temperature bake. The current dough could be something more like 50-50 the 00 Chefs flour and that HR All purpose, or maybe 75 the All-purpose and 25 the 00.

     

    all the monies that poor old oven has made them and they won't even pay to give her a tune up?   Heaven forbid the cost of replacing it.....jeeez            Oh well, i guess it's better than having him put out all those burnt pies he used to charge for.   

[RHawthorne]

If anybody ever saw bags of H&R flour in that place, I would imagine they were probably only using it for bench flour, because it's cheap. I doubt they were actually using it in their dough. But who knows?