Matt's NY Pizza, by HammettJr

[RHawthorne]

The key is proper ratios and having the sauce and cheese become one.

I can admire that goal, but it's not my bag. I like the sauce to really stand out on it's own.

[Sokkr]

Pizza crust not crispy/brown at all.

Hi Matt/Everyone!

I've done lots of Neapolitan pizza but I've been trying to do my favorite - NY style. Anyways, I tried it for the first time and got good results on everything but the crust... It was not brown at all. I was wondering what you might suggest that I do to get a better undercrust.

500F 18" screen for ~8 minutes (2nd lowest rack)
16" Stone (second highest rack)

DOUGH:
750 g water
1316 g bread flour (king arthur blue)
40 g fine sea salt
7 g yaf instant yeast
30 g extra virgin olive oil
-> 2122 g total weight
-> 0.098 TF
-> 57% hydration

I was thinking adding sugar, using fresh yeast, of precooking the dough without cheese but ideally, I shouldn't need to precook it.

Thoughts?

[hammettjr]

Hello Sokkr! Not sure if your dough is underfermented. How long did it fernent for and at what temp?

If I understand your post, you're putting the screen directly on an oven rack using the stone as a ceiling? I've had challenges baking like that. I'd preheat the stone for an hour, then bake with the screen sitting directly on top of the stone.

Good luck!

[Pete-zza]

Sokkr,

You might also check out the post at Reply 45 at:

https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=2223.msg20965#msg20965

Peter

[Sokkr]

Hello Sokkr! Not sure if your dough is underfermented. How long did it fernent for and at what temp?

If I understand your post, you're putting the screen directly on an oven rack using the stone as a ceiling? I've had challenges baking like that. I'd preheat the stone for an hour, then bake with the screen sitting directly on top of the stone.

Good luck!

Dough was fermented enough. It was a 4 day cold proof at 38F.

And ah yes, I used the stone as a ceiling rather than baking directly on top of it; I misunderstood your use of the screen.

Do you think that's a sufficient fix? It seems like that would be enough since I've never had a problem with my Neapolitan pizza on my stone. Any other thoughts?

[Sokkr]

Sokkr,

You might also check out the post at Reply 45 at:

https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=2223.msg20965#msg20965

Peter

Thanks! I'll check it out!

[hammettjr]

Do you think that's a sufficient fix? It seems like that would be enough since I've never had a problem with my Neapolitan pizza on my stone. Any other thoughts?

Only one way to know for sure, which is to try it. I expect it'll make a huge difference. What temperature do you plan to bake at?

It's best to make 1 big change at a time so we can see the impact. If you change multiple things it's very hard to attribute the result to each individual change.

Edit, also a screen is optional and most people find pizza bakes better without a screen. If you already have launching skills from your neapolitan bakes, you may want to try that.

[Sokkr]

I bake at 500F. And good note, I'm making notes of everything and will be compiling information together once I get all the data.

And the only reason why I have a screen is because my stone is 16" and I wanted to make it more of a larger NY slice (the pizzeria I grew up on took slices from 24" pizza so large slices).

So I might put the screen on the stone and bake for x:xx time OR bake on the screen at a higher rack until it's firm and then transfer to the stone on the lower rack.

[hammettjr]

Great bake for lunch today, fighting through what turned into a fever, so wasn't in a great mood, but the pizza overcame it.

KABF as I finished my KASL. A bad bake a couple weeks ago had KABF with lower water at 58% and temp lowered to 525.

This bake was back up to my normal 60% and 550 degrees.

Still annoying bubbles, but otherwise a great pie. And a garlic knot on the side, more about that in the next post.

[hammettjr]

Garlic knots tuned out surprisingly well. Was dough I made 8 days ago for a Greek pan pizza (and intended to be used after 1 day). And it sat out overnight last night.

Baked on a cookie sheet at low temp. I think I set it to 425 and put it in before it reached temp. Bake time somewhere around 15-20 minutes.

Tossed in bowl with evoo, garlic, dried basil and microplaned parm. The knot pictured below sat in the oil mixture for a couple hours and soaked it up, was great.

[OrlandoPete]

Hey Matt, I have been making my way through this thread to pick up on tips since you have such a killer melt. One question I had, that is probably answered somewhere in there that I haven't gotten to yet, is about the "thin" sauce. Is this one of your keys to achieving your melt? And also, what exactly is it and how do you achieve it?

In my most recent pies, I've been using a starting point of crushed tomatoes (SMT brand) and then putting them in a food processor on puree for about 10 seconds to reduce the chunkiness. I would definitely not call it thin even at that point. I've never even thought about going for a thinner sauce until I started reading this thread.

[hammettjr]

Hey Matt, I have been making my way through this thread to pick up on tips since you have such a killer melt. One question I had, that is probably answered somewhere in there that I haven't gotten to yet, is about the "thin" sauce. Is this one of your keys to achieving your melt? And also, what exactly is it and how do you achieve it?

In my most recent pies, I've been using a starting point of crushed tomatoes (SMT brand) and then putting them in a food processor on puree for about 10 seconds to reduce the chunkiness. I would definitely not call it thin even at that point. I've never even thought about going for a thinner sauce until I started reading this thread.

Thanks Pete! Yes, thin sauce is crucial for my pie. It was something I first came across when I bought sauce from a pizzeria in Queens and baked with it.
Check out the video in this link:
https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=51924.msg598020#msg598020

To get a thin sauce I use whole peeled tomato (Alta Cucina) through an Oxo food mill using the fine plate.

An alternative that is pretty close is pushing crushed tomato through a strainer, look at how much skin I strained out in the photo in this post:
https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=51924.msg596764#msg596764

[OrlandoPete]

Thanks Pete! Yes, thin sauce is crucial for my pie. It was something I first came across when I bought sauce from a pizzeria in Queens and baked with it.
Check out the video in this link:
https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=51924.msg598020#msg598020

To get a thin sauce I use whole peeled tomato (Alta Cucina) through an Oxo food mill using the fine plate.

An alternative that is pretty close is pushing crushed tomato through a strainer, look at how much skin I strained out in the photo in this post:
https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=51924.msg596764#msg596764

Interesting, thanks for the details! So in my next batch I am planning to use some crushed, which I could push through a strainer. However, I am also trying a can of Mutti Cherry tomatoes (for some natural sweetness) which are whole with skins on them. Would I be able to push those through a strainer as well? Would I need to blanch them first? I don't have a food mill yet, but it's been in the back of my mind as I've seen many people use them for pizza sauce. Originally I was just going to drop all of it in a food processor with the skins and everything, but now I am thinking otherwise.

[hammettjr]

I've never used or seen those tomatoes, but I'd think that it's be hard to use a strainer for tomatoes with skin. I'd probably use a food processor.

[OrlandoPete]

I've never used or seen those tomatoes, but I'd think that it's be hard to use a strainer for tomatoes with skin. I'd probably use a food processor.

Have you tried the strainer method on tomatoes without skins, and if so how did that work out? I can get the skins off pretty easily via blanching.

[9slicePie]

Yes, thin sauce is crucial for my pie.

When you apply that WET/THIN of a sauce on the pizza skin, does it not "soak through' / soggy up the skin, thereby making it difficult to launch?  (I mean, I guess NOT since you're successfully baking; but I wanted to ask anyway)

[hammettjr]

Have you tried the strainer method on tomatoes without skins, and if so how did that work out? I can get the skins off pretty easily via blanching.

I haven't. But I also think an issue you may have is straining the big chunks. That's more of a food processor or mill thing. The strainer was good to remove seeds and bits of skin from a crushed tomato product.

[hammettjr]

When you apply that WET/THIN of a sauce on the pizza skin, does it not "soak through' / soggy up the skin, thereby making it difficult to launch?  (I mean, I guess NOT since you're successfully baking; but I wanted to ask anyway)

Interesting question because the specific style that I'm inspired by (what I'll call "Queens Style"), uses a screen, therefore there are no launch concerns. But, I think my pizza could be launched fine.

[jkb]

Interesting question because the specific style that I'm inspired by (what I'll call "Queens Style"), uses a screen, therefore there are no launch concerns. But, I think my pizza could be launched fine.

I have no issues with a thin sauce.

[OzPizza]

Interesting, thanks for the details! So in my next batch I am planning to use some crushed, which I could push through a strainer. However, I am also trying a can of Mutti Cherry tomatoes (for some natural sweetness) which are whole with skins on them. Would I be able to push those through a strainer as well? Would I need to blanch them first? I don't have a food mill yet, but it's been in the back of my mind as I've seen many people use them for pizza sauce. Originally I was just going to drop all of it in a food processor with the skins and everything, but now I am thinking otherwise.

I've never used or seen those tomatoes, but I'd think that it's be hard to use a strainer for tomatoes with skin. I'd probably use a food processor.

Mutti are a massive Italian brand, I'm a little suprised you don't see them more widely over there. They're in all the major and independant supermarket chains here. They've become my goto brand lately. They do San Marzanos plus several other varieties. I've used their Polpa, fine chopped a few times lately in combination with their Passata. I'm on the fence about sauces lately after so many years and so many permutations. But have only just seen FeelingFoodish's sauce, I'm very tempted to give that a try next. Alternatively I may go right back to Mutti San Marzano's through the food mill.