Pizza Making Forum

Pizza Making => New York Style => Topic started by: MiHawkeye on July 25, 2015, 07:21:26 PM

Title: Need help with pizza sauce! pretty please 🍕
Post by: MiHawkeye on July 25, 2015, 07:21:26 PM
Made a NY style recipe pizza, I didn't have a peel, so I had to make due with placing it on a pizza stone.  The crust was great, finally found full fat mozzarella and added fresh basil.....YUM

Now I'm looking for a sauce recipe....

I used tomato purée, a little water, garlic powder, salt, black pepper, sugar, red pepper flakes ,oregano and EVOO.  I liked it, but I am looking for that NY pizza sauce factor!  (Brands, etc...)

Any sauce suggestions?

Title: Re: Need help with pizza sauce! pretty please 🍕
Post by: mitchjg on July 25, 2015, 07:28:45 PM
Welcome to the forum.  Lots to learn and lots to contribute here.  I am sure you will have fun.

An immediate suggestion is to start using the Search function (top right).  Questions like "what sauce recipe should I use" have been asked, answered and/ or commented on hundreds of times.  Look around......Try "sauce"
Title: Re: Need help with pizza sauce! pretty please 🍕
Post by: David Esq. on July 25, 2015, 08:12:21 PM
Mitch, I used the can of cento "certified" tomatoes straight into a bowl tonight with oregano and salt.  Squashed the tomatoes in my hands. Fantastic. And one less appliance to dirty.
Title: Re: Need help with pizza sauce! pretty please 🍕
Post by: mitchjg on July 25, 2015, 09:15:26 PM
Mine is not much different.  I usually add a bit of sugar to taste - depends on the particular can - each is a bit different than the last.   I also do not use the liquid in the can (too tinny for one thing). And, I add a bit of garlic powder to taste when I want it to be New Yorky.

But, there are, as I said, zillions of answers to this question.  MiHawkeye: The search function is your friend.  :chef:

One Example of Many:

http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=29738.0 (what standard ingrediants go into a classic new york style pizza sauce?)
Title: Re: Need help with pizza sauce! pretty please 🍕
Post by: invertedisdead on July 26, 2015, 10:33:43 AM
I made pizzas the other day with good Carmelina tomatoes, salt, and organic oregano and everybody commented on how much they liked the sauce, and how they couldn't believe that's all I did to it.
Title: Re: Need help with pizza sauce! pretty please 🍕
Post by: deb415611 on July 26, 2015, 11:08:59 AM
mine is pretty much the same as Mitch's except I also add crushed red pepper for  a Ny style
Title: Re: Need help with pizza sauce! pretty please 🍕
Post by: gfgman on July 26, 2015, 11:27:03 AM
Hey, I spent 7 years or so in Grand Rapids, 1995-2001.  I wasn't making my own sauce back then, so I can't really say what brands of tomatoes they had in stores.  It may have changed a lot since then.  I seem to recall getting Don Pepino's pizza sauce, which is okay as a NY style sauce, but it's not quite my cup of tea. 
I like to make a margherita style as well as a NY style, and I like products that are ready to go right out of the can.  I find that anything that tastes great for the Margherita will make a good NY sauce. 
My favorite is the white can fake san marzanos.  I also tried Pastene Kitchen ready tomatoes recently and they were excellent.  I f I could get them locally, I would use them on a regular basis because the price is much better. 
The one local place I really like that does the classic NY/NJ style, has a really smooth thin sauce.  I would guess that he is not crushing the tomatoes himself.  I wouldn't be surprised if he is using a Stanislaus product or something similar.
I agree less is more for a NY sauce.  I like some garlic, fresh basil, and a little oregano.  Also a pinch of sugar, depending on the can, and salt if it isn't in the can already.
Title: Re: Need help with pizza sauce! pretty please 🍕
Post by: mitchjg on July 26, 2015, 11:27:38 AM
mine is pretty much the same as Mitch's except I also add crushed red pepper for  a Ny style

Funny...... i usually add some crushed red pepper but I forgot to mention it!
Title: Re: Need help with pizza sauce! pretty please 🍕
Post by: David Esq. on July 26, 2015, 11:35:07 AM
Two peas in a pod.
Title: Re: Need help with pizza sauce! pretty please 🍕
Post by: bjc113 on July 26, 2015, 12:06:32 PM
I used to make this all the time

http://www.seriouseats.com/recipes/2010/10/new-york-style-pizza-sauce.html (http://www.seriouseats.com/recipes/2010/10/new-york-style-pizza-sauce.html)

It's a very tasty sauce, but soon realized that a cooked sauce really dies when baking.  It loses a lot of its original character.  Lately I've taken the advice of folks on here and simply took crushed tomatoes and added a pinch of oregano maybe some sugar and just spooned it on the dough.  It will firm up in the oven and I'm really enjoying it.

I've had great luck with Walmart brand crushed - I have Cento crushed now and it's not as good
Title: Re: Need help with pizza sauce! pretty please 🍕
Post by: invertedisdead on July 26, 2015, 12:57:46 PM
I'm curious how much oregano folks are using per 28oz can. A pinch is way smaller than 1/2-1tsp I've seen some use.
Title: Re: Need help with pizza sauce! pretty please 🍕
Post by: jsaras on July 26, 2015, 03:20:34 PM
This is my "house sauce":

28 oz can crushed tomatoes (Wal Mart, Kroger or Smart & Final brand,
Code on the can is 5TPCG OL)
¼ tsp fresh ground black pepper
½ tsp salt
1-2 tsp oregano
1-2 TB of olive oil
1/2 clove garlic or ½ Dorot frozen garlic cube or ¼ tsp garlic powder
½ tsp ground fennel (optional, but very recommended)
1/8 tsp (dash) crushed red pepper (optional, adds a zesty element)
½ Dorot frozen basil cube (optional)
 
 
Add salt and black pepper directly to the canned tomatoes.
 
Put the olive oil and all the spices into a small microwave safe container such as a ramekin or a coffee cup.  Ensure that all the spices are wet from being covered in olive oil.  Microwave the mixture for two minutes at 30% power. This is called “microwave extraction”.  This technique gives you the same effect of cooking the sauce, without the negative effects of cooking canned tomatoes.  The herbs and spices get infused into the oil, so you get the benefits of cooking the sauce without cooking the tomatoes.
 
Pour the oil/spice mix into a container with the tomatoes.  Close the container and shake the heck out of it.  It is ready to serve immediately,  but it is better if refrigerated overnight.  Note that pizza sauce should be applied to a pizza when it has reached room temperature.

I recently made a simpler variation of this with just the garlic, oregano (both in oil) and a full teaspoon of salt.  It was excellent IMO.
Title: Re: Need help with pizza sauce! pretty please 🍕
Post by: invertedisdead on July 26, 2015, 03:28:36 PM
This is my "house sauce":

28 oz can crushed tomatoes (Wal Mart, Kroger or Smart & Final brand,
Code on the can is 5TPCG OL)
¼ tsp fresh ground black pepper
½ tsp salt
1-2 tsp oregano
1-2 TB of olive oil
1/2 clove garlic or ½ Dorot frozen garlic cube or ¼ tsp garlic powder
½ tsp ground fennel (optional, but very recommended)
1/8 tsp (dash) crushed red pepper (optional, adds a zesty element)
½ Dorot frozen basil cube (optional)
 
 
Add salt and black pepper directly to the canned tomatoes.
 
Put the olive oil and all the spices into a small microwave safe container such as a ramekin or a coffee cup.  Ensure that all the spices are wet from being covered in olive oil.  Microwave the mixture for two minutes at 30% power. This is called “microwave extraction”.  This technique gives you the same effect of cooking the sauce, without the negative effects of cooking canned tomatoes.  The herbs and spices get infused into the oil, so you get the benefits of cooking the sauce without cooking the tomatoes.
 
Pour the oil/spice mix into a container with the tomatoes.  Close the container and shake the heck out of it.  It is ready to serve immediately,  but it is better if refrigerated overnight.  Note that pizza sauce should be applied to a pizza when it has reached room temperature.

I recently made a simpler variation of this with just the garlic, oregano (both in oil) and a full teaspoon of salt.  It was excellent IMO.

Is there salt in the tomatoes you use?
Title: Re: Need help with pizza sauce! pretty please 🍕
Post by: clarkth on July 26, 2015, 08:42:38 PM
Hey, I spent 7 years or so in Grand Rapids, 1995-2001.  I wasn't making my own sauce back then, so I can't really say what brands of tomatoes they had in stores.  It may have changed a lot since then.  I seem to recall getting Don Pepino's pizza sauce, which is okay as a NY style sauce, but it's not quite my cup of tea. 
I like to make a margherita style as well as a NY style, and I like products that are ready to go right out of the can.  I find that anything that tastes great for the Margherita will make a good NY sauce. 
My favorite is the white can fake san marzanos.  I also tried Pastene Kitchen ready tomatoes recently and they were excellent.  I f I could get them locally, I would use them on a regular basis because the price is much better. 
The one local place I really like that does the classic NY/NJ style, has a really smooth thin sauce.  I would guess that he is not crushing the tomatoes himself.  I wouldn't be surprised if he is using a Stanislaus product or something similar.
I agree less is more for a NY sauce.  I like some garlic, fresh basil, and a little oregano.  Also a pinch of sugar, depending on the can, and salt if it isn't in the can already.

My mother in law was born and raised in Italy and she only uses the Pastene tomatoes when she makes her sauce for pasta.  They are great for pizza's also.
Title: Re: Need help with pizza sauce! pretty please 🍕
Post by: jsaras on July 26, 2015, 08:47:23 PM

Is there salt in the tomatoes you use?

Yes.  I don't think I've encountered canned tomatoes that do not have salt in the ingredient list.
Title: Re: Need help with pizza sauce! pretty please 🍕
Post by: vtsteve on July 26, 2015, 09:56:47 PM
I've had great luck with Walmart brand crushed - I have Cento crushed now and it's not as good

By the canner code on the bottom - 5TPCG OL - the Cento ALL-IN-ONE (their caps  :-[) are the same as the Great Value. I think GV is cheaper.

Tomatoes, straight from the can, and a healthy sprinkle of oregano on top. Suddenly I'm the best pizza in the county.   :chef:
Title: Re: Need help with pizza sauce! pretty please 🍕
Post by: invertedisdead on July 26, 2015, 10:46:30 PM
Yes.  I don't think I've encountered canned tomatoes that do not have salt in the ingredient list.

Oh alright. I use Carmelina San Marzano often and they have no salt. Usually go back and forth between those and Cento, stocking up when either are on sale.
Title: Re: Need help with pizza sauce! pretty please 🍕
Post by: hotsawce on July 27, 2015, 01:57:01 AM
Here's the secret NYC sauce on the best pies here in my city. Are you ready?....

Open a can of Sclafani crushed tomatoes. That's it. Good crushed tomatoes.

The real secret is the proper proportion of tomatoes to everything else. Trust me. Don't f*ck with a can of good tomatoes...you don't need to.

You could use peeled tomatoes but crushed are often the right consistency.
Title: Re: Need help with pizza sauce! pretty please 🍕
Post by: Jackitup on July 27, 2015, 03:31:12 AM
Made a NY style recipe pizza, I didn't have a peel, so I had to make due with placing it on a pizza stone.  The crust was great, finally found full fat mozzarella and added fresh basil.....YUM

Now I'm looking for a sauce recipe....

I used tomato purée, a little water, garlic powder, salt, black pepper, sugar, red pepper flakes ,oregano and EVOO.  I liked it, but I am looking for that NY pizza sauce factor!  (Brands, etc...)

Any sauce suggestions?

Crazy amount of info here  http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?board=44.0. just start picking, choosing and tasting. Gotta find what fits your own tongue, regardless of what others say. They help you get darned close, still need to do the taste test. I stay away from most that have too much, if any, citric acid. Tastes very tinny to me, others don't mind it, I think the tinny, bitterness gets in the way of the natural sweetness, many add sugar to ballance that, in packing at the plant or after we get it home, then to me it gets too sweet sometimes. Just some thoughts....

jon
Title: Re: Need help with pizza sauce! pretty please 🍕
Post by: hotsawce on July 27, 2015, 01:43:12 PM
Taste tastes routinely show tasters prefer both citric acid and calcium chloride when choosing a canned tomato, and they prefer them packed in juice as opposed to puree. I used to be a devout, whole peeled tomato guy (I did make neapolitan pizza for a number of years.) They are great for that application, but for NY I say go crushed....and crushed typically doesn't have the firming and freshness agents in them.

Crazy amount of info here  http://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?board=44.0. just start picking, choosing and tasting. Gotta find what fits your own tongue, regardless of what others say. They help you get darned close, still need to do the taste test. I stay away from most that have too much, if any, citric acid. Tastes very tinny to me, others don't mind it, I think the tinny, bitterness gets in the way of the natural sweetness, many add sugar to ballance that, in packing at the plant or after we get it home, then to me it gets too sweet sometimes. Just some thoughts....

jon
Title: Re: Need help with pizza sauce! pretty please 🍕
Post by: gfgman on July 27, 2015, 02:43:21 PM
There was a study on canned tomatoes done some years ago that was posted here.  The San Marzano crushed in the white can (see my post above), got really high marks, and they come with both the citric acid and the calcium chloride, as well as salt, and I believe puree.  I have also noticed in recent years, that at certain times of the year, the cans list water and a thickening agent.  I'm assuming that has something to with the amount of cans being manufactured versus the amount of tomatoes being harvested. 

Rosa crushed San Marzanos do not have salt.  I've also run into other brands, store brands perhaps, that list crushed tomatoes as the only ingredient.
Title: Re: Need help with pizza sauce! pretty please 🍕
Post by: Pizza Shark on July 29, 2015, 09:40:32 AM
For store bought:

1 - 28OZ can of Sclafani ground tomatoes (The Sclafani made by B&G foods - the other Sclafani brand can't compare but the cans look very similar - Google B&G Foods and look at their product line - you'll see what their can looks like)
1/2 tsp dry oregano
1/2 tsp dry basil (or 3-4 chopped fresh basil leaves)
1/2 tsp salt
1/4 tsp dry minced onion / onion flakes
1/4 tsp dry garlic flakes (the flakes look like little dry minced pieces of garlic and taste much better than garlic powder or granulated garlic which can be very bitter and over-powering.  Fresh garlic also seems too strong/bitter to me)
1/4 tsp fennel seed (whole seeds or you can take 1/4 tsp of whole seeds and then crush them before adding - I like them whole as they to give you a surprise every now and then when you take a bite that has one in it)
1/2 tsp crushed red pepper flakes
1/4 tsp fresh ground black pepper
2 tsp extra virgin olive oil
 
Mix all together and let sit 24 hrs in the fridge.  Don't cook the sauce - it will cook on the pizza.

Those are a lot of ingredients but you'll notice the quantity of each is quite small.  You don't really want to taste powerful seasoning in NYS Sauce, the seasoning should just "enhance" a bit.  Of course, any ingredient is optional.  I'll sometimes leave the garlic out if I don't feel like having that hint of garlic or the fennel if I don't want that hint of flavor, etc.  Can also add 1/2 tsp of sugar if you feel the tomatoes are a bit acidic or increase to 1 tsp of sugar if you like a bit sweeter sauce.  All up to you but the above recipe is one I use quite a bit.  In my opinion, the B&G Sclafani tomatoes are just as good as commercial Stanislaus 7/11 ground tomatoes (some here claim they are even better).



Title: Re: Need help with pizza sauce! pretty please 🍕
Post by: onecheck on January 09, 2021, 04:10:29 PM
Do you microwave extraction the Dorot frozen cubes too?

This is my "house sauce":

28 oz can crushed tomatoes (Wal Mart, Kroger or Smart & Final brand,
Code on the can is 5TPCG OL)
¼ tsp fresh ground black pepper
½ tsp salt
1-2 tsp oregano
1-2 TB of olive oil
1/2 clove garlic or ½ Dorot frozen garlic cube or ¼ tsp garlic powder
½ tsp ground fennel (optional, but very recommended)
1/8 tsp (dash) crushed red pepper (optional, adds a zesty element)
½ Dorot frozen basil cube (optional)
 
 
Add salt and black pepper directly to the canned tomatoes.
 
Put the olive oil and all the spices into a small microwave safe container such as a ramekin or a coffee cup.  Ensure that all the spices are wet from being covered in olive oil.  Microwave the mixture for two minutes at 30% power. This is called “microwave extraction”.  This technique gives you the same effect of cooking the sauce, without the negative effects of cooking canned tomatoes.  The herbs and spices get infused into the oil, so you get the benefits of cooking the sauce without cooking the tomatoes.
 
Pour the oil/spice mix into a container with the tomatoes.  Close the container and shake the heck out of it.  It is ready to serve immediately,  but it is better if refrigerated overnight.  Note that pizza sauce should be applied to a pizza when it has reached room temperature.

I recently made a simpler variation of this with just the garlic, oregano (both in oil) and a full teaspoon of salt.  It was excellent IMO.
Title: Re: Need help with pizza sauce! pretty please 🍕
Post by: jsaras on January 09, 2021, 08:59:08 PM
Do you microwave extraction the Dorot frozen cubes too?
Yes. 
Title: Re: Need help with pizza sauce! pretty please 🍕
Post by: onecheck on January 10, 2021, 09:24:08 AM
Thanks for your reply.

 :D

Yes.
Title: Re: Need help with pizza sauce! pretty please 🍕
Post by: jsaras on January 10, 2021, 11:33:30 AM
Let me know your thoughts on the finished sauce.  Although I’ve moved in a more minimalist direction, a zesty/herby sauce works well with many styles of pizza.
Title: Re: Need help with pizza sauce! pretty please 🍕
Post by: hammettjr on January 10, 2021, 01:29:33 PM
This look reasonable? Seeing these posts has me looking to try mae again in a few hours. 1/2 tsp oregano, 1/2 tsp EVOO, 2 minutes at 30%.

Title: Re: Need help with pizza sauce! pretty please 🍕
Post by: jsaras on January 10, 2021, 06:16:34 PM
I’d opt for more a bit more oil.
Title: Re: Need help with pizza sauce! pretty please 🍕
Post by: jsaras on January 10, 2021, 07:45:07 PM
This look reasonable? Seeing these posts has me looking to try mae again in a few hours. 1/2 tsp oregano, 1/2 tsp EVOO, 2 minutes at 30%.
...or maybe not.  I think you’re OK on the oil amount.  The oil appeared white in the photo, which threw me off. 
Title: Re: Need help with pizza sauce! pretty please 🍕
Post by: hammettjr on January 10, 2021, 08:08:43 PM
Thanks. I had already gone ahead with that amount. Like the first time I tried mae, I'm not sure I noticed an difference.

Title: Re: Need help with pizza sauce! pretty please 🍕
Post by: jsaras on January 10, 2021, 08:58:04 PM
What’s your normal procedure with oregano?  Is it in the tomatoes?  Do you use oil?  Or do you add it post bake?  Just curious as to what you are comparing it to.
Title: Re: Need help with pizza sauce! pretty please 🍕
Post by: hammettjr on January 10, 2021, 09:12:39 PM
My usual is oregano in my sauce. No oil. I put it in a couple hours before bake. I have a thin sauce, whole peeled milled with a fine plate, and a 8 minute bake with a good sauce boil during the bake.

My amounts are:
1.25 cups of thin tomato
1/8 tsp salt
1/2 tsp sugar
1/64 tsp cayenne
1/64 tsp garlic powder
1/64 tsp onion powder
1/2 tsp dried oregano

Title: Re: Need help with pizza sauce! pretty please 🍕
Post by: jsaras on January 11, 2021, 09:18:01 AM
My usual is oregano in my sauce. No oil. I put it in a couple hours before bake. I have a thin sauce, whole peeled milled with a fine plate, and a 8 minute bake with a good sauce boil during the bake.

My amounts are:
1.25 cups of thin tomato
1/8 tsp salt
1/2 tsp sugar
1/64 tsp cayenne
1/64 tsp garlic powder
1/64 tsp onion powder
1/2 tsp dried oregano
Have you tried it with oregano, cayenne, garlic and onion in the oil?
Title: Re: Need help with pizza sauce! pretty please 🍕
Post by: hammettjr on January 11, 2021, 07:25:14 PM
Have you tried it with oregano, cayenne, garlic and onion in the oil?

I haven't! Just the oregano. Your question implies there'd be a benefit of trying it. The only drawback is it adds oil to my sauce, which I haven't been doing recently. But it's worth a shot.

Title: Re: Need help with pizza sauce! pretty please 🍕
Post by: hammettjr on January 18, 2021, 07:56:53 PM
Have you tried it with oregano, cayenne, garlic and onion in the oil?

Dude. Dude! DUDE!!

(Sorry, I'm a bit excited.)

So I just had dinner with a pie that had MAE of oregano, cayenne, garlic powder, onion powder.

But here's what I think made the real difference for me:

My wife asked me to bake her favorite cookies for her birthday. I was working on it this morning and I needed to soften some butter. 30 seconds in microwave at 30% and nothing really happened.

So I tried more than a minute at 50% and half the stick turned to liquid. I was surprised by how much of a difference it was going from 30 to 50%.

So I went to November's #2 sauce post. He recommends 30% for microwaves that are 1000 to 1400 watts. My microwave is 1000 watts, so the 30% I tried last week is in line.

BUT, he also gives a MAE range of 300-420 watts. So 40% for me is still in range. And I went with 40%.

Tldr: I tried MAE 2 minutes at 40% in my 1000 watt microwave and I may have blown my mind.

Title: Re: Need help with pizza sauce! pretty please 🍕
Post by: Jon in Albany on January 18, 2021, 08:22:29 PM
I'll have to try it. Never gone above 30% myself.
Title: Re: Need help with pizza sauce! pretty please 🍕
Post by: jsaras on January 18, 2021, 09:21:34 PM
Dude. Dude! DUDE!!

(Sorry, I'm a bit excited.)

So I just had dinner with a pie that had MAE of oregano, cayenne, garlic powder, onion powder.

But here's what I think made the real difference for me:

My wife asked me to bake her favorite cookies for her birthday. I was working on it this morning and I needed to soften some butter. 30 seconds in microwave at 30% and nothing really happened.

So I tried more than a minute at 50% and half the stick turned to liquid. I was surprised by how much of a difference it was going from 30 to 50%.

So I went to November's #2 sauce post. He recommends 30% for microwaves that are 1000 to 1400 watts. My microwave is 1000 watts, so the 30% I tried last week is in line.

BUT, he also gives a MAE range of 300-420 watts. So 40% for me is still in range. And I went with 40%.

Tldr: I tried MAE 2 minutes at 40% in my 1000 watt microwave and I may have blown my mind.

Everyone needs an Iron Chef trick in their arsenal :-)
Title: Re: Need help with pizza sauce! pretty please 🍕
Post by: hammettjr on January 18, 2021, 09:22:47 PM
I'll have to try it. Never gone above 30% myself.

Check the wattage on your microwave first. 30% x 1400 = 420.  We have a small microwave to save counterspace,  so I'm at 40% x 1000 = 400.

Thanks again Jonas...and thanks to onecheck for asking about your sauce on a thread that was over 5 years old...between that and my butter mishap, its funny how things work out.

Title: Re: Need help with pizza sauce! pretty please 🍕
Post by: wb54885 on January 18, 2021, 11:46:53 PM
Dude. Dude! DUDE!!

...So I went to November's #2 sauce post...

This is such a good moment.
Title: Re: Need help with pizza sauce! pretty please 🍕
Post by: HansB on January 19, 2021, 08:11:44 AM
Check the wattage on your microwave first. 30% x 1400 = 420.  We have a small microwave to save counterspace,  so I'm at 40% x 1000 = 400.

Thanks again Jonas...and thanks to onecheck for asking about your sauce on a thread that was over 5 years old...between that and my butter mishap, its funny how things work out.

Do you have an inverter microwave?
Title: Re: Need help with pizza sauce! pretty please 🍕
Post by: onecheck on January 19, 2021, 02:12:55 PM
Pizza Shark. Is this the same as garlic flakes?
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B071CFWNS3/ref=ox_sc_saved_title_1?smid=A2NXEN9B47N7L&psc=1
For store bought:

1 - 28OZ can of Sclafani ground tomatoes (The Sclafani made by B&G foods - the other Sclafani brand can't compare but the cans look very similar - Google B&G Foods and look at their product line - you'll see what their can looks like)
1/2 tsp dry oregano
1/2 tsp dry basil (or 3-4 chopped fresh basil leaves)
1/2 tsp salt
1/4 tsp dry minced onion / onion flakes
1/4 tsp dry garlic flakes (the flakes look like little dry minced pieces of garlic and taste much better than garlic powder or granulated garlic which can be very bitter and over-powering.  Fresh garlic also seems too strong/bitter to me)
1/4 tsp fennel seed (whole seeds or you can take 1/4 tsp of whole seeds and then crush them before adding - I like them whole as they to give you a surprise every now and then when you take a bite that has one in it)
1/2 tsp crushed red pepper flakes
1/4 tsp fresh ground black pepper
2 tsp extra virgin olive oil
 
Mix all together and let sit 24 hrs in the fridge.  Don't cook the sauce - it will cook on the pizza.

Those are a lot of ingredients but you'll notice the quantity of each is quite small.  You don't really want to taste powerful seasoning in NYS Sauce, the seasoning should just "enhance" a bit.  Of course, any ingredient is optional.  I'll sometimes leave the garlic out if I don't feel like having that hint of garlic or the fennel if I don't want that hint of flavor, etc.  Can also add 1/2 tsp of sugar if you feel the tomatoes are a bit acidic or increase to 1 tsp of sugar if you like a bit sweeter sauce.  All up to you but the above recipe is one I use quite a bit.  In my opinion, the B&G Sclafani tomatoes are just as good as commercial Stanislaus 7/11 ground tomatoes (some here claim they are even better).
Title: Re: Need help with pizza sauce! pretty please 🍕
Post by: hammettjr on January 19, 2021, 06:30:17 PM
Do you have an inverter microwave?

Don't think so. I have a cheap one.

Title: Re: Need help with pizza sauce! pretty please 🍕
Post by: hammettjr on January 19, 2021, 07:02:54 PM
Jonas/All, what's the thinking on doing MAE using olive oil? November indicated to use water (link below for folks that havent seen it). Rather than water, I'd consider using a spoon of thin tomato.

https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=3735.msg31879#msg31879

Title: Re: Need help with pizza sauce! pretty please 🍕
Post by: jsaras on January 19, 2021, 07:41:46 PM
Jonas/All, what's the thinking on doing MAE using olive oil? November indicated to use water (link below for folks that havent seen it). Rather than water, I'd consider using a spoon of thin tomato.

https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=3735.msg31879#msg31879

Oil is a far superior medium for MAE IMO
Title: Re: Need help with pizza sauce! pretty please 🍕
Post by: HansB on January 20, 2021, 08:43:55 PM
Don't think so. I have a cheap one.

At 40% you are not using 40% power, it's on full power 40% of the time. If you use an inverter microwave it actually uses reduced power.
Title: Re: Need help with pizza sauce! pretty please 🍕
Post by: hammettjr on January 20, 2021, 09:45:33 PM
At 40% you are not using 40% power, it's on full power 40% of the time. If you use an inverter microwave it actually uses reduced power.

Interesting! Would that necessarily be a problem? I'm just starting to learn about this, but it seems one goal is to keep the herbs under a certain temp, which cycling on/off at full power still can do?

I'm also not clear on the drawbacks of "overcooking" the herbs during this process.

In any event, I'm going to try to do everything exactly the same as my last bake. I want to experience it again before any new experiments.

Title: Re: Need help with pizza sauce! pretty please 🍕
Post by: HansB on January 20, 2021, 10:43:24 PM
Interesting! Would that necessarily be a problem? I'm just starting to learn about this, but it seems one goal is to keep the herbs under a certain temp, which cycling on/off at full power still can do?

I'm also not clear on the drawbacks of "overcooking" the herbs during this process.

In any event, I'm going to try to do everything exactly the same as my last bake. I want to experience it again before any new experiments.

I think as long as it does not get too hot it would be fine.
Title: Re: Need help with pizza sauce! pretty please 🍕
Post by: hammettjr on January 23, 2021, 03:09:26 PM
This is my "house sauce":

28 oz can crushed tomatoes (Wal Mart, Kroger or Smart & Final brand,
Code on the can is 5TPCG OL)
¼ tsp fresh ground black pepper
½ tsp salt
1-2 tsp oregano
1-2 TB of olive oil
1/2 clove garlic or ½ Dorot frozen garlic cube or ¼ tsp garlic powder
½ tsp ground fennel (optional, but very recommended)
1/8 tsp (dash) crushed red pepper (optional, adds a zesty element)
½ Dorot frozen basil cube (optional)
 
 
Add salt and black pepper directly to the canned tomatoes.
 
Put the olive oil and all the spices into a small microwave safe container such as a ramekin or a coffee cup.  Ensure that all the spices are wet from being covered in olive oil.  Microwave the mixture for two minutes at 30% power. This is called “microwave extraction”.  This technique gives you the same effect of cooking the sauce, without the negative effects of cooking canned tomatoes.  The herbs and spices get infused into the oil, so you get the benefits of cooking the sauce without cooking the tomatoes.
 
Pour the oil/spice mix into a container with the tomatoes.  Close the container and shake the heck out of it.  It is ready to serve immediately,  but it is better if refrigerated overnight.  Note that pizza sauce should be applied to a pizza when it has reached room temperature.

I recently made a simpler variation of this with just the garlic, oregano (both in oil) and a full teaspoon of salt.  It was excellent IMO.

Hi again Jonas, I have a few more questions. Interested in anyone else's thoughts on this too.

1) Do you allow the oil/herb mixture to cool before adding it to the tomato? November recommended it to cool, but I'm not sure exactly what I did last week. I suspect it was still warm, which I'm not totally convinced is a bad thing.

2) I assume that "shake the heck out of it" after adding it to the tomato is superior to mixing with a spoon, fork, whisk?

3) If you were to use it after 4 hours, would you leave it at room temp the entire time, or put it the fridge a couple hours, then back to room temp to warm up? My real question is whether the cooler temp helps with the mingling of flavors.

4) You said it's best after being in the fridge overnight. Have you ever tried just putting the oil/herb mixture in the fridge after MAE? Or is it necessary that it mingles with the tomato during that period to get the flavor boost?

Many thanks!

Title: Re: Need help with pizza sauce! pretty please 🍕
Post by: jsaras on January 23, 2021, 03:19:51 PM
I let it cool briefly.  I keep my sauce in Pyrex container with a locking lid.  Shaking it is just a conveniece.  I no longer refrigerate any of my sauces ahead of time, but they sit for at least 30 minutes at RT before use. 
Title: Re: Need help with pizza sauce! pretty please 🍕
Post by: hammettjr on January 23, 2021, 03:25:14 PM
Thanks. Any noticeable loss of flavor by not refrigerating overnight? That's something on my list to experiment with, but I'm not thrilled with the idea of making the sauce a day in advance. Though for some reason I suspect many pizzerias make their sauce at night for the next day, but I dont remember where I got that impression from (and it may not add to the flavor or outweigh the extra day of ageing of the tomato).
Title: Re: Need help with pizza sauce! pretty please 🍕
Post by: jsaras on January 23, 2021, 05:18:52 PM
I don’t think there’s any appreciable loss of flavor.  The oil does its job of as a flavor delivery vehicle reasonably quickly. 
Title: Re: Need help with pizza sauce! pretty please 🍕
Post by: vincentoc13 on February 01, 2021, 11:02:36 PM
This is my "house sauce":

28 oz can crushed tomatoes (Wal Mart, Kroger or Smart & Final brand,
Code on the can is 5TPCG OL)
¼ tsp fresh ground black pepper
½ tsp salt
1-2 tsp oregano
1-2 TB of olive oil
1/2 clove garlic or ½ Dorot frozen garlic cube or ¼ tsp garlic powder
½ tsp ground fennel (optional, but very recommended)
1/8 tsp (dash) crushed red pepper (optional, adds a zesty element)
½ Dorot frozen basil cube (optional)
 
 
Add salt and black pepper directly to the canned tomatoes.
 
Put the olive oil and all the spices into a small microwave safe container such as a ramekin or a coffee cup.  Ensure that all the spices are wet from being covered in olive oil.  Microwave the mixture for two minutes at 30% power. This is called “microwave extraction”.  This technique gives you the same effect of cooking the sauce, without the negative effects of cooking canned tomatoes.  The herbs and spices get infused into the oil, so you get the benefits of cooking the sauce without cooking the tomatoes.
 
Pour the oil/spice mix into a container with the tomatoes.  Close the container and shake the heck out of it.  It is ready to serve immediately,  but it is better if refrigerated overnight.  Note that pizza sauce should be applied to a pizza when it has reached room temperature.

I recently made a simpler variation of this with just the garlic, oregano (both in oil) and a full teaspoon of salt.  It was excellent IMO.
Hi, I made the sauce this past weekend, it was fantastic, everyone could not believe how good it tasted.  Didn't have any basil and only added 1/2 the amount of fennel, I'm not a huge fan of fennel, but I wanted try it, so glad I added some of it.  I'm gonna try just the garlic and oregano next, thanks for the recipe, its now part of my arsenal!!
Title: Re: Need help with pizza sauce! pretty please 🍕
Post by: RHawthorne on February 05, 2021, 04:32:26 AM
To whom it may concern- sorry if this sounds like a dumb question, but what does MAE stand for? That's a new one to me.
Title: Re: Need help with pizza sauce! pretty please 🍕
Post by: jsaras on February 05, 2021, 10:23:55 AM
To whom it may concern- sorry if this sounds like a dumb question, but what does MAE stand for? That's a new one to me.

Microwave assisted extraction
Title: Re: Need help with pizza sauce! pretty please 🍕
Post by: Pete-zza on February 05, 2021, 02:33:08 PM
To whom it may concern- sorry if this sounds like a dumb question, but what does MAE stand for? That's a new one to me.
RHawthorne,

Jonas gave you the correct answer but for future cases you might check out this list:

https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=20056.msg196875#msg196875

Peter
Title: Re: Need help with pizza sauce! pretty please 🍕
Post by: RHawthorne on February 05, 2021, 03:06:03 PM
Microwave assisted extraction
Thank you. I had guessed at what the M and E stood for, but I wasn't sure about the A. This whole MAE thing is something I hadn't even heard of before last night. Interesting idea. I don't usually use any oil in my pizza sauce, and I keep my seasonings really minimal (usually just sea salt, oregano, and crushed garlic), but I just might give this a try soon.
Title: Re: Need help with pizza sauce! pretty please 🍕
Post by: RHawthorne on February 05, 2021, 03:06:47 PM
RHawthorne,

Jonas gave you the correct answer but for future cases you might check out this list:

https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=20056.msg196875#msg196875

Peter
I was aware of the glossary, but I didn't even think to look there. Thanks.
Title: Re: Need help with pizza sauce! pretty please 🍕
Post by: Pete-zza on February 05, 2021, 03:13:54 PM
I was aware of the glossary, but I didn't even think to look there. Thanks.
Members should feel free to let me know if there are abbreviations that they feel should be in the listing I prepared. I often look for new additions in members' posts and add them if I think that will help. It will also help if members using a new abbreviation spell out what it stands for (e.g., in parentheses). There have been times where I had to do a Google or similar search to find the answers. In some cases, I could not find the answer.

Peter
Title: Re: Need help with pizza sauce! pretty please 🍕
Post by: foreplease on February 06, 2021, 09:48:02 AM
There have been times where I had to do a Google or similar search to find the answers. In some cases, I could not find the answer.

Peter
That’s just people trying to get one over on you, Peter.  :-D  They think you won’t sleep until you figure it out.


My Dad and I used to have a friend who was a brilliant CPA (deceased now). We would go for a donut and coffee, or lunch, a couple times a week. When it was time to make change or split a check, we would fast talk him and leave him with the wrong amount. Instead of swindling him, we would see to it that he got an extra $5. It really bothered him. Sometimes he would question it hours later. :)
Title: Re: Need help with pizza sauce! pretty please 🍕
Post by: foreplease on February 06, 2021, 09:49:57 AM
Thank you. I had guessed at what the M and E stood for, but I wasn't sure about the A. This whole MAE thing is something I hadn't even heard of before last night. Interesting idea. I don't usually use any oil in my pizza sauce, and I keep my seasonings really minimal (usually just sea salt, oregano, and crushed garlic), but I just might give this a try soon.
I was unable to figure out the ‘A’ too and I have read it a dozen times or more over the years.
Title: Re: Need help with pizza sauce! pretty please 🍕
Post by: PizzaEater101 on February 07, 2021, 09:21:18 PM
I didn't read what people suggested BUT about 10 years ago I started a discussion on Pizzeria Luigi in San Diego (CA) that turned out to be a very popular tread.  It was about reverse engineering their pizza. 

Mike Essen did a fine job of doing so and then Peter converted it for 28 Oz can of tomato crushed.  If Pete doesn't mind I am posting a quote of his.

Peter writes -

"With the above as background, here is the seasoning mix I came up with. If you need help converting weights to volumes for a sauce batch based on a 28-ounce can of tomatoes, let me know.  I have shown the weights of ingredients for a sauce batch using a 28-ounce can of tomatoes in parenthesis. If the seasoning mix works out, it should then be possible to come up with a baker’s percent format.

Red pepper flakes: 3 grams (a pinch or two between the thumb and forefinger)
*Greek oregano leaves: 8 grams (0.4 grams)
Salt: 11 grams (0.55 grams)
*Black pepper: 3 grams (0.15 grams)
*Garlic powder: 30 grams (1.5 grams)
**Grated Parmesan cheese: 58 grams (2.9 grams)
*Fresh, chopped basil: 7 grams (0.35 grams)
Total seasoning mix weight = 120 grams (9 grams)
* denotes that the ingredients are in small bowls of same size
** denotes that the bowl seems larger than the other bowls"

Taste great.

Link to discussion -

https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=14928.0
Title: Re: Need help with pizza sauce! pretty please 🍕
Post by: jsaras on February 07, 2021, 09:42:10 PM
That seems like a LOT of salt.  I use 4-5 grams for a 28 ounce can. With all that parm you’d think you could skip the salt altogether.
Title: Re: Need help with pizza sauce! pretty please 🍕
Post by: PizzaEater101 on February 07, 2021, 09:59:42 PM
That seems like a LOT of salt.  I use 4-5 grams for a 28 ounce can. With all that parm you’d think you could skip the salt altogether.

Actually it is .55 Grams of salt.  The measurements in parenthesis is for 28 OZ can but outside of the parens I think is for 106 OZ can.
Title: Re: Need help with pizza sauce! pretty please 🍕
Post by: jsaras on February 07, 2021, 10:16:34 PM
Actually it is .55 Grams of salt.  The measurements in parenthesis is for 28 OZ can but outside of the parens I think is for 106 OZ can.

That makes a lot more sense.  Thanks!
Title: Re: Need help with pizza sauce! pretty please 🍕
Post by: jkb on February 07, 2021, 10:24:15 PM
That makes a lot more sense.  Thanks!


I think most canned tomatoes have too much salt to begin with.
Title: Re: Need help with pizza sauce! pretty please 🍕
Post by: CB1984 on July 01, 2021, 10:47:52 PM
Pizza Shark. Is this the same as garlic flakes?
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B071CFWNS3/ref=ox_sc_saved_title_1?smid=A2NXEN9B47N7L&psc=1

I would highly recommend this company.  They're sixth generation garlic farmers in the Hudson Valley of New York.  Their product is made small batch by the owner, and she doesn't even charge a fortune for it.  I've been purchasing from her for about ten years, and my best friend (who owns a restaurant) has used her as a supplier since the day she opened.  Everything she makes is top notch.  Can't recommend enough.

Rockerbox Spice Company (https://www.rockerboxgarlic.com/shop/gf)

Title: Re: Need help with pizza sauce! pretty please 🍕
Post by: 9slicePie on July 02, 2021, 10:48:21 AM
I find that anything that tastes great for the Margherita will make a good NY sauce.

I like that.


This is my "house sauce":

28 oz can crushed tomatoes (Wal Mart, Kroger or Smart & Final brand,
Code on the can is 5TPCG OL)
¼ tsp fresh ground black pepper
½ tsp salt
1-2 tsp oregano
1-2 TB of olive oil
1/2 clove garlic or ½ Dorot frozen garlic cube or ¼ tsp garlic powder
½ tsp ground fennel (optional, but very recommended)
1/8 tsp (dash) crushed red pepper (optional, adds a zesty element)
½ Dorot frozen basil cube (optional)
 
 
Add salt and black pepper directly to the canned tomatoes.
 
Put the olive oil and all the spices into a small microwave safe container such as a ramekin or a coffee cup.  Ensure that all the spices are wet from being covered in olive oil.  Microwave the mixture for two minutes at 30% power. This is called “microwave extraction”.  This technique gives you the same effect of cooking the sauce, without the negative effects of cooking canned tomatoes.  The herbs and spices get infused into the oil, so you get the benefits of cooking the sauce without cooking the tomatoes.
 
Pour the oil/spice mix into a container with the tomatoes.  Close the container and shake the heck out of it.  It is ready to serve immediately,  but it is better if refrigerated overnight.  Note that pizza sauce should be applied to a pizza when it has reached room temperature.

I recently made a simpler variation of this with just the garlic, oregano (both in oil) and a full teaspoon of salt.  It was excellent IMO.

As much as I plan to use this technique God-Willing, I have some [non-condescending/non-sarcastic] questions:

Pizzerias most likely don't use the above technique when making their sauces, and many of their sauces are laudable.  And as home pizza-makers, aren't we trying to make and replicate pizza/sauce/etc the way the pizzerias do?  The microwave extraction is an extra step (albeit, a seemingly worthwhile extra step) that pizzerias are probably (Read: Almost certainly) not using.  They're likely just adding herbs/spices (if any) directly to their tomatoes.


(Don't get me wrong, if this technique enhances the sauce's flavor, I (myself) wouldn't necessarily be against that.)
Title: Re: Need help with pizza sauce! pretty please 🍕
Post by: jsaras on July 02, 2021, 04:16:22 PM
I like that.


As much as I plan to use this technique God-Willing, I have some [non-condescending/non-sarcastic] questions:

Pizzerias most likely don't use the above technique when making their sauces, and many of their sauces are laudable.  And as home pizza-makers, aren't we trying to make and replicate pizza/sauce/etc the way the pizzerias do?  The microwave extraction is an extra step (albeit, a seemingly worthwhile extra step) that pizzerias are probably (Read: Almost certainly) not using.  They're likely just adding herbs/spices (if any) directly to their tomatoes.


(Don't get me wrong, if this technique enhances the sauce's flavor, I (myself) wouldn't necessarily be against that.)

Norma used an MAE sauce that was even more involved than mine, and her pizzeria was among the best in the country for her style.  I cannot speak as to how prevalent the technique is in professional operations, but it does work. 
Title: Re: Need help with pizza sauce! pretty please 🍕
Post by: HansB on July 02, 2021, 04:32:15 PM
The more pizza I make, the more often I add only salt to good crushed tomatoes for my sauce.
Title: Re: Need help with pizza sauce! pretty please 🍕
Post by: amolapizza on July 03, 2021, 10:36:35 AM
Pizzerias most likely don't use the above technique when making their sauces, and many of their sauces are laudable.  And as home pizza-makers, aren't we trying to make and replicate pizza/sauce/etc the way the pizzerias do?

I think we are trying to make even better pizza than the commercial places do! :D
Title: Re: Need help with pizza sauce! pretty please 🍕
Post by: RHawthorne on July 03, 2021, 01:57:54 PM
I think we are trying to make even better pizza than the commercial places do! :D
I guess it depends on what we mean by 'commercial places'. If we're trying to make better than average pizza, it goes without saying that we're going to make better pizza than the big chains do, without a doubt- or at least with a little effort. If we're trying to go for a truly great pizza (which I would say most of us are), then our own worst critic is always ourselves. I'm happy to make pizza that's better than the pizza from the best pizzerias near me- which I think I've already long since done. But I'll probably never stop trying to perfect my work. It's totally subjective, of course. What matters is that we always try our best, even if we're making pizza only for ourselves.