| Flour (100%): Water (68%): IDY (1.3575%): Salt – Morton’s Kosher (1.61763%): Honey (4.71332%): Total (175.68845%): | 322.02 g | 11.36 oz | 0.71 lbs 218.97 g | 7.72 oz | 0.48 lbs 4.37 g | 0.15 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.45 tsp | 0.48 tbsp 5.21 g | 0.18 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.09 tsp | 0.36 tbsp 15.18 g | 0.54 oz | 0.03 lbs | 2.17 tsp | 0.72 tbsp 565.75 g | 19.96 oz | 1.25 lbs | TF = 0.0992532 |
Rather than burden JerryMac’s thread on his NY style pizza with my experiments, I decided to start this thread. Basically, what I was trying to achieve most recently is a 16” version of a JerryMac NY style pizza. In the course of doing so, I made a few changes to the dough recipe that Jerry posted at the thread he started at (not allowed to post link)
The starting point for my latest effort was the baker’s percent dough formulation that I posted at Reply 52 at NO LINK. In addition to scaling that recipe up to 16”, I made a few other changes. First, I used a hydration of 68%. That number was chosen because Jerry had indicated that the hydration for his dough is in the high 60s. Second, I used a thickness factor that was between the two values used by Jerry in making 13” and 14” pizzas. The thickness factor I used was 0.096738. Third, I decided to use a more classical method of making the poolish in which I used equal weights of flour and water, yielding a hydration of 100%. As in Jerry’s recipe, I used all of the formula water in the poolish. Fourth, I used honey instead of barley malt syrup, mainly because honey is easier for most people to find. As before, the flour used was the King Arthur bread flour. To improve its hydration, I sifted it. As discussed below, I also used the whisk attachment of my KitchenAid stand mixer to further improve the hydration of the flour used in the poolish. Fifth, I used a bowl residue compensation of 2.6% to compensate for minor dough losses during preparation of the dough. That value turned out to be almost perfect. Finally, I dressed the pizza on a 16” pizza screen and baked the pizza using a combination of the screen and my pizza stone. In preparation for making the pizza, I had preheated the oven and the stone for about an hour at around 500-550 degrees F.
Using the expanded dough calculating tool at NO LINK, the dough formulation I ended up with was as follows:Note: the nominal thickness factor used in the tool is 0.096738; bowl residue compensation is 2.6%; the water was tap water at 68 degrees F
Flour (100%):
Water (68%):
IDY (1.3575%):
Salt – Morton’s Kosher (1.61763%):
Honey (4.71332%):
Total (175.68845%):322.02 g | 11.36 oz | 0.71 lbs
218.97 g | 7.72 oz | 0.48 lbs
4.37 g | 0.15 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.45 tsp | 0.48 tbsp
5.21 g | 0.18 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.09 tsp | 0.36 tbsp
15.18 g | 0.54 oz | 0.03 lbs | 2.17 tsp | 0.72 tbsp
565.75 g | 19.96 oz | 1.25 lbs | TF = 0.0992532
To prepare the poolish, I started by combining all of the flour (sifted) with all of the IDY. I then put all of the formula water, 7.72 oz., into the mixer bowl of my basic KitchenAid stand mixer. Using the whisk attachment at stir speed, I then gradually added an equal amount of the flour, 7.72 oz., to the water in the mixer bowl. When all of the flour was incorporated into the water, I removed the whisk attachment. To get the poolish that stuck to the whisk attachment off of the attachment, I simply tilted the mixer head (unlocked) back slightly while using the stir speed and then the 2 speed. That caused the poolish to spin off of the whisk attachment into the mixer bowl. The mixer bowl was then covered, and the poolish was allowed to preferment for 5 hours at a room temperature of about 67 degrees F.
At the end of the 5-hour preferment period, I added the honey, salt and the remaining flour/IDY (3.64 oz.) to the poolish in the mixer bowl. Using the C-hook of my mixer, the ingredients were mixed initially at stir speed. Once all of the ingredients were fully combined, they were kneaded for about another 3 1/2 minutes at speed 2. The dough was then removed from the mixer bowl and placed on a lightly floured work surface, hand kneaded for about a minute, and shaped into a round ball. The dough was then put into a covered oiled container (a plastic Rubbermaid storage container) and allowed to ferment for 1 ½ hours. At the end of that time, the dough was punched down, reshaped, and allowed to proof for another 1 ½ hours. All of the times involved (preferment time and rise and proof times) were as generally recited by JerryMac.
As I expected, and as I had been forewarned by Jerry, the proofed dough was highly hydrated and very extensible. Using just enough bench flour to coat the dough skin as I initially shaped and stretched it out to about 12”, I was able to lift the skin and to further stretch it out to about 16”. This was the trickiest part of the entire dough handling exercise. However, I was able to drape the skin over my forearms and deposit it onto the 16” pizza screen. To be sure that the skin wouldn’t stick to the screen, I had lightly pre-sprayed the screen with a canola oil spray.
The pizza was dressed in a buffalo chicken style, using the same ingredients as described in Reply 644 at NO LINK. The pizza was baked initially on the screen on the topmost oven rack position of my oven until the rim of the dough had risen and the cheeses were starting to bubble, about 4 minutes. I then shifted the pizza off of the screen (which I then removed from the oven) onto the pre-heated pizza stone (on the lowest oven rack position). The pizza baked on the stone for about 2 minutes, and once the bottom crust turned brown, I moved the pizza back to the topmost oven rack position for about another minute to achieve additional top crust browning.
The photos below show the finished pizza. The pizza was excellent. It had very good oven spring, with a large, chewy rim and a soft, airy crumb. There was also good crust coloration and flavor. I would say that the pizza overall was one of the best same-day pizzas I have ever made. The bottom crust of the pizza was not as crispy as I might have achieved had the pizza been baked entirely on my stone, but I expected that result. That would not have been an option in my case in any event, since my pizza stone cannot accommodate a pizza size greater than 14”. So, I have become accustomed to the slightly less crispy crusts when using a pizza screen.
For those who may be interested in using volume measurements for the flour in the dough formulation I used, I used November’s Mass-Volume Conversion Calculator at NO LINK to do the conversions of the weights of flour to volumes. The 7.72 oz. of flour used in the poolish converts to 1 ½ c. + 4 T. + 2 t. The remaining flour, 3.64 oz. (11.36 oz. – 7.72 oz. = 3.64 oz.), added to the poolish as part of the final mix converts to ¾ c. + 1 T. + 2 ¾ t. The 7.72 oz. of water is between 7/8 and 1 c. in a standard Pyrex measuring cup (viewed at eye level on a flat surface). To be sure that the correct amount of flour is measured out volumetrically, one should stir the flour in its container, lift the flour into the measuring cups/spoons using a scoop or kitchen tablespoon, and then level the tops with the flat edge of a standard kitchen knife. Of course, if one chooses to use a different pizza size for purposes of using the expanded dough calculating tool (with the same thickness factor and baker’s percents as recited above), it will be necessary to use November’s tool to get the correct conversions of the weights of flour to volumes. However, the numbers should be pretty straightforward and easy to use since the weights of the poolish flour and water are the same and all of the formula water is used in the poolish.
Peter
I guess I cant post pictures or hyperlinks? Anyone have any ideas? I have a photobucket album loaded with pictures from this but I can't post any of them. Thanks.
| Flour (100%): Water (68%): IDY (1.3575%): Salt-Morton's Kosher (1.61763%): Honey (4.71332%): Total (175.68845%): Single Ball: | 362.27 g | 12.78 oz | 0.8 lbs 246.35 g | 8.69 oz | 0.54 lbs 4.92 g | 0.17 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.63 tsp | 0.54 tbsp 5.86 g | 0.21 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.22 tsp | 0.41 tbsp 17.08 g | 0.6 oz | 0.04 lbs | 2.44 tsp | 0.81 tbsp 636.47 g | 22.45 oz | 1.4 lbs | TF = 0.0992532 318.24 g | 11.23 oz | 0.7 lbs |
Does anyone have any idea for a great thick crust recipe that is super chewy and not too "bready"? Once I find that I think my life may be complete :)
| Total Formula: Flour (100%): Water (69%): Salt (1.61763%): Total (170.61763%): Preferment: Flour: Water: Total: Final Dough: Flour: Water: Salt: Preferment: Total: | 322.07 g | 11.36 oz | 0.71 lbs 222.23 g | 7.84 oz | 0.49 lbs 5.21 g | 0.18 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.09 tsp | 0.36 tbsp 549.51 g | 19.38 oz | 1.21 lbs | TF = N/A 24.16 g | 0.85 oz | 0.05 lbs 24.16 g | 0.85 oz | 0.05 lbs 48.31 g | 1.7 oz | 0.11 lbs 297.92 g | 10.51 oz | 0.66 lbs 198.07 g | 6.99 oz | 0.44 lbs 5.21 g | 0.18 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.09 tsp | 0.36 tbsp 48.31 g | 1.7 oz | 0.11 lbs 549.51 g | 19.38 oz | 1.21 lbs | TF = N/A |
Keep up the good work JerryMac. Its obvious everyone loves the recipe I begged you to post...
Hope your doing well!!!
| King Arthur Bread Flour (100%): Water (68%): IDY (1.3575%): Morton’s Kosher Salt (1.61763%): Honey (4.71332%): Total (175.68845%): | 320.14 g | 11.29 oz | 0.71 lbs 217.69 g | 7.68 oz | 0.48 lbs 4.35 g | 0.15 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.44 tsp | 0.48 tbsp 5.18 g | 0.18 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.08 tsp | 0.36 tbsp 15.09 g | 0.53 oz | 0.03 lbs | 2.16 tsp | 0.72 tbsp 562.45 g | 19.84 oz | 1.24 lbs | TF = 0.0986728 |
I hope you will let us know how you like the results if you decide to try the recipe.
Peter
If you want to make a 14" pizza for your BGE, it is easy enough to change the dough formulation I posted for the 16" size, although it will be necessary to alter the quantities of ingredients to go into the sponge and into the final mix. If you need help with this, let me know.
Peter
Michelle,
I hope you will let us know how you like the results if you decide to try the recipe.
Peter
This week (yesterday) I finally got around to trying Pete's cold rise version of the Jerry Mac recipe (last week was a Chicago-style deep dish). I used KABF and made a 14" pizza. 3 hours on the sponge preferment, a little over 48 hours in the fridge.
I also found that it benefited from being kneaded briefly when finally taken out of the fridge to assist in shaping after a 2 hour warm up.
After the 2 hours, I shaped it on my Silicone Zone pizza mat, I let it rest 20 minutes so that the rim wouldn't pull back too much. I dressed the dough lightly with a mixture of minced garlic (3 cloves) and 1 Tablespoon of olive oil that was simmered until the garlic just started to color. I do the oil ahead and let it cool so I can smear it on the dough with my fingers. I then seasoned with a little fresh-ground black pepper and a sprinkling of kosher salt. Sauce was Mario Batali's Basic Tomato Sauce. Toppings were Central Market fresh mozzarella, fresh basil, sliced pepperoni, sliced pepperocini, and a dusting of parmeggiano reggiano (our standard pizza).
Since it was cool and windy here, this was done in the oven rather than the Big Green Egg, at 500 F. My pizza stone was on the middle rack. I used "bake" rather than "convection", since I find that works best in my Monogram oven. This was the first time I've done pizza on the middle rack rather than the bottom one; I'd last baked some artisan bread and had forgotten to move the stone before preheating. I started with the pizza on the silicone mat, but pulled the mat out from under the pizza after a few minutes so there could be direct contact with the stone.
Fabulous flavor, browning, and crispness! Oh, and great oven spring - my best rim yet! This one is a keeper and will be made as long as I remember "hey, it's Wednesday - time to make the dough" for our weekly Friday pizza. And I will definitely leave the stone in the middle rack position.
Michelle
I think it takes me longer to write up and take photos of what I have done than to actually make the pizza :-D.
Peter
ME,
I'd love to see some photos of your pizzas, even if only for comparison purposes.
It was interesting to learn that you were able to use a food processor to make the dough, given its high hydration. Did you make the sponge in the food processor and finish the dough (the "final mix") in the processor also? I would have thought that the food processor would have a hard time kneading such a very high hydration dough without gumming up the works by having the dough seep under the blade and rendering the blade immobile. I wondered whether you added more flour to the food processor to get a workable dough. If you were able to avoid adding more flour to the processor bowl, that suggests that one may be able to make a hand-kneaded version of the dough, and possibly a bread machine version also.
The key point to keep in mind about the sponge, as with a poolish, is the break point. That is the point where the sponge starts to collapse after peaking. At the time of peaking, the top of the dough will usually be convex (like an upside down "U") with a lot of bubbles. When the sponge breaks, the surface becomes concave (like a right side up "U") and wrinkled. It will be obvious, especially if a lot of yeast is used, as is the case with Jerry's recipe. I have read that you don't have to immediately use the sponge at the moment it breaks, but one shouldn't delay such use for too long. I have waited an hour after the break point and found that it worked fine. All else being equal, the time it takes to reach the break point will be determined principally by the room temperature. It will happen sooner with a "summer time" sponge than with a "winter time" sponge. So, it is a good idea to allow enough time for the sponge to reach the break point before proceeding to the final mix.
Peter
ME,
Thank you for posting the photos. I did not experience anywhere near the activity that your dough did.
As I also previously noted, I think that the preferment method with so much yeast is hard on sugar creation, making it difficult to get more color in the finished crust, even with a fair amount of added sugar (or honey or barley malt syrup).
My questions, I just made the poolish and realized after the fact that you used KA bread flour, I used KASL. will my pizza still work?
Peter,
Flour (100%):
Water (68%):
IDY (1.3575%):
Salt – Morton’s Kosher (1.61763%):
Honey (4.71332%):
Total (175.68845%):322.02 g | 11.36 oz | 0.71 lbs
218.97 g | 7.72 oz | 0.48 lbs
4.37 g | 0.15 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.45 tsp | 0.48 tbsp
5.21 g | 0.18 oz | 0.01 lbs | 1.09 tsp | 0.36 tbsp
15.18 g | 0.54 oz | 0.03 lbs | 2.17 tsp | 0.72 tbsp
565.75 g | 19.96 oz | 1.25 lbs | TF = 0.0992532
To prepare the poolish, I started by combining all of the flour (sifted) with all of the IDY. I then put all of the formula water, 7.72 oz., into the mixer bowl of my basic KitchenAid stand mixer. Using the whisk attachment at stir speed, I then gradually added 7.72 ounces of the flour/IDY to the water in the mixer bowl. When all of the flour was incorporated into the water, I removed the whisk attachment.
| Flour (100%): Water (68%): IDY (1.3575%): Salt-Morton's Kosher (1.61763%): Honey (4.71332%): Total (175.68845%): | 181.84 g | 6.41 oz | 0.4 lbs 123.65 g | 4.36 oz | 0.27 lbs 2.47 g | 0.09 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.82 tsp | 0.27 tbsp 2.94 g | 0.1 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.61 tsp | 0.2 tbsp 8.57 g | 0.3 oz | 0.02 lbs | 1.23 tsp | 0.41 tbsp 319.48 g | 11.27 oz | 0.7 lbs | TF = 0.0996401 |
I used the expanded dough calculating tool at http://www.pizzamaking.com/expanded_calculator.html to produce the following:
SD girl hounds me daily about how good this pizza is. "Did ya make Mac yet?!! How about today?! Gonna make it tomorrow?!" Ok not really, but she's a big fan, and it seems to be very popular. As this is a 1 day counter rise dough I'm going to try and hand knead a couple pies today and see what happens. It can be done! The more I hand knead the more I believe a strong arm, strong hands, and a metal or wooden spoon have just as much power as any mixer for small 2-3 ball batches, probably more actually, lol.
Yes, not that it was ever low. lol. I always believe all you say, you were really right on this though, unlike the land in Florida and A.I.G. calls you sold me. The great pizza makes up for it all though.
:)
SD.
Do I dare try this in the WFO say around 750? I am concerned with the honey? thoughts?
John
So what would this single ball be at 15". Sorry to be a p.i.a. today, but the good news is I only cook these 3 pizzas!
Flour (100%):181.84 g | 6.41 oz | 0.4 lbs
Water (68%):123.65 g | 4.36 oz | 0.27 lbs
IDY (1.3575%):2.47 g | 0.09 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.82 tsp | 0.27 tbsp
Salt-Morton's Kosher (1.61763%):2.94 g | 0.1 oz | 0.01 lbs | 0.61 tsp | 0.2 tbsp
Honey (4.71332%):8.57 g | 0.3 oz | 0.02 lbs | 1.23 tsp | 0.41 tbsp
Total (175.68845%):319.48 g | 11.27 oz | 0.7 lbs | TF = 0.0996401
Hat's off Jerry. An excellent pie without it having to be a weeklong endeavor.
Peter or Jerry,
Would you still recommend I do the punch-down step about halfway through the wait?
Jim,
Good job, including adapting the dough formulation to accommodate a combination of room-temperature and cold fermentation of the poolish. I especially wondered about the honey in light of your comment about getting more crunch on the rim. Honey is a highly hygroscopic material--more so than sugar--so it does become difficult to get a crispy and crunchy rim because the honey keeps more moisture in the dough.
Will we have to keep coming up with new ideas for you to try out to be sure that you stick around the forum :-D?
Peter
My dough had a slight yeasty taste sometimes and I am thinking that is because I prefermented for 11.5 hours - right?
Also, I wanted to ask Pete or anybody how you guys deal with the super sticky dough. I used plenty of flour today. The previous times, I had disasters transferring the dough to the peel (it was so soft and elastic). Today, I draped it over my arm and transferred it quickly onto the peel that had cornmeal on it. Is this the technique?
Lastly, what can I do about those huge bubbles? I opened the oven and tried to pop it during baking but it wouldn't pop.
Hi Skee,Those 2 words should be added to the pizza glossary. http://www.pizzamaking.com/pizza_glossary.html (http://www.pizzamaking.com/pizza_glossary.html)
I am an amateur so I don't understand balling and opening. ???
Thanks Bob.If it fights back then , yes, let it rest more. How long did you mix the dough for...overmixing can also cause snapback.
So you are saying that it was too thick even though my oven was cranked at 500 with a stone for 1 hr prior to baking, right?
Time between balling and opening - 1.5 hrs as stated in the instructions by Peet-zza. In the fridge.....if it fights back, I should let it rest even more then, right?
Thanks guys.
Time between balling and opening - 1.5 hrs as stated in the instructions by Peet-zza. In the fridge.....if it fights back, I should let it rest even more then, right?Here are the instructions for balling and resting from the first post in this thread:
So say I wanted to use my culture purchased from Ed, would my percentage in yeast be different? If so, how much? Thank you.Toronto1984,