Pizza Making Forum

Pizza Making => New York Style => Topic started by: Joj on April 13, 2021, 07:07:38 PM

Title: Joj's NY Style Learning Thread (Waring WPO500)
Post by: Joj on April 13, 2021, 07:07:38 PM
NJ transplant living in MD. After reading, missing good pizza, and seeing the passion on this forum, I decided to take the plunge down the rabbit hole. My great white whale is the pizza I grew up with in Northwest Jersey (Nicolosi's).

I was inspired by Essen1's and Norma's threads. Still have so much to learn; all feedback is appreciated!


Dough: Essen1's 2-3 day dough, I did a 48 hr cold ferment. https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=8093.msg368433#msg368433 (https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=8093.msg368433#msg368433)
Flour (100%): GM Full Strength
Water (65%):
ADY (0.3%):
Salt (2.5%):
Olive Oil (1%):
Sugar (1%):
Diastatic Malt Powder (1%): Anthony's https://www.amazon.com/Diastatic-Baking-Powder-1-5lbs-Anthonys/dp/B00WGUYX96 (https://www.amazon.com/Diastatic-Baking-Powder-1-5lbs-Anthonys/dp/B00WGUYX96)
429g dough ball opened up to 16".

Workflow:
Essen1's here https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=8093.msg380433#msg380433 (https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=8093.msg380433#msg380433), I do not have a mixer, so I did it by hand. Trying to take care not to overmix.

Cheese:
-Saputo Mozzeria WMLM (10 oz).

Sauce:
-7/11 w/ MAE herbs (6oz)

Bake:
-On a 16" screen in the Waring WPO500 (stock stone) for ~9 minutes at 550f.
-Rotated 180 degrees after 5 minutes.


Title: Re: Joj's NY Style Learning Thread (Waring WPO500)
Post by: Joj on April 13, 2021, 07:17:06 PM
Notes:
- Definitely will take some experimenting to get the top/bottom balance right with the Waring. The bottom has a lot of power.
- Thinking launching directly instead of using the screen would get more oven spring?
- I would like to get some Grande to try. The Mozzeria had little/no stretch (grated on a box grater, room temp when it went on the pie).
- Top browning was not fantastic, thoughts? (I was not using the AB Mauri LDMP, any impact from using a DMP with an unknown LV?)

Overall this was leagues better than my previous efforts, and I did enjoy the taste!
Title: Re: Joj's NY Style Learning Thread (Waring WPO500)
Post by: 02ebz06 on April 13, 2021, 07:17:57 PM
Nicely done!!!
Title: Re: Joj's NY Style Learning Thread (Waring WPO500)
Post by: Peter B on April 13, 2021, 07:40:54 PM
Notes:
- Definitely will take some experimenting to get the top/bottom balance right with the Waring. The bottom has a lot of power.

Gosh - it looks pretty good to me!

Notes:
- Thinking launching directly instead of using the screen would get more oven spring?

Not sure about the effect on the oven spring, but it would certainly mess with your balance in top vs. bottom cooking.
Title: Re: Joj's NY Style Learning Thread (Waring WPO500)
Post by: foreplease on April 13, 2021, 08:10:53 PM
Welcome to the forum, Joj. Youíre in the right place. Itís clear you have spent many hours here reading (as your intro post says). Your pizza looks great!
Title: Re: Joj's NY Style Learning Thread (Waring WPO500)
Post by: Joj on April 14, 2021, 05:24:48 PM
Nicely done!!!
Thank you!

Gosh - it looks pretty good to me!

Not sure about the effect on the oven spring, but it would certainly mess with your balance in top vs. bottom cooking.
Thanks! I think you're right, going to stick with the screen for the next couple bakes and work on the top.

Welcome to the forum, Joj. Youíre in the right place. Itís clear you have spent many hours here reading (as your intro post says). Your pizza looks great!
I appreciate that, thank you. It's good to be here.
Title: Re: Joj's NY Style Learning Thread (Waring WPO500)
Post by: psedillo on April 14, 2021, 05:35:50 PM
Joj,

That pie looks excellent!

I appreciate you posting about your experience with the Waring oven. There was one for sale in Houston on Craigslsit that I almost pulled the trigger on due to the price. Now I wished that I'd bought it based on seeing your results.

Paul
Title: Re: Joj's NY Style Learning Thread (Waring WPO500)
Post by: Joj on April 14, 2021, 05:43:17 PM
Was so excited to make more pizza, I tried Essen1's same day dough from here https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=8093.msg561834#msg561834 (https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=8093.msg561834#msg561834)
18" Pie
                                             Grams   
Flour                         100%     358   
Water                        (65%)    233   
Instant Dry Yeast        (1%)      4   
Regular/Fine Sea Salt (2.5%)    9   
Diastatic Malt Powder (2%)        7   
Olive Oil                    (2%)        7   
Sugar                        (1%)       4   
Total                         (173.5%)   621   
Single Ball   621g   

- Baked on an 18" screen for ~8min at 560f.
- Top was a bit blonde, I would have thought it would be darker with the malt/sugar. Any thoughts?
- First pepperoni pie I've made (nuking the pepperoni on paper towels helped with the grease), forgot how much I love a big pepperoni pie  :drool:
- Dough was very extensible, I may have given it too much time (ended up being ~4-5 hours) for the RT ferment with that much yeast. It was difficult to keep it even while opening.
Title: Re: Joj's NY Style Learning Thread (Waring WPO500)
Post by: Zaroh on April 14, 2021, 11:50:21 PM
Hi Joj, I am definitely not qualified to give any advice but wanted to say that is a delicious looking pizza!  :drool:

I've wanted to pull the trigger on the WPO500 for years but always hesitated as there isn't as much content (forum threads, videos etc.) on it making me less confident about purchasing it. Seeing your results is making me consider it again. Given the chamber depth is listed at 18'' did you find baking an 18'' pizza on a screen to be a tight fit, or was there some room for forgiveness?
Title: Re: Joj's NY Style Learning Thread (Waring WPO500)
Post by: Joj on April 15, 2021, 09:38:52 AM
Hi Joj, I am definitely not qualified to give any advice but wanted to say that is a delicious looking pizza!  :drool:

I've wanted to pull the trigger on the WPO500 for years but always hesitated as there isn't as much content (forum threads, videos etc.) on it making me less confident about purchasing it. Seeing your results is making me consider it again. Given the chamber depth is listed at 18'' did you find baking an 18'' pizza on a screen to be a tight fit, or was there some room for forgiveness?

Here's a video of the 18" pie in the oven https://imgur.com/a/Y59XEmq (https://imgur.com/a/Y59XEmq).

18" on a screen is totally doable and not stressful putting it in. I'll take a pic later of the 18" screen in the oven to give you some perspective.
Title: Re: Joj's NY Style Learning Thread (Waring WPO500)
Post by: corkd on April 15, 2021, 03:34:27 PM
Nice looking pies!
Title: Re: Joj's NY Style Learning Thread (Waring WPO500)
Post by: Zaroh on April 17, 2021, 03:47:28 AM
Sorry to bug you about this stuff but Waring and vendors have been non-responsive. Do you happen to know the measurements for the oven, or specifically the distance between feet depthwise? Seeing a lot of conflicting information. Waring's official spec sheet has the oven at 26''W 16''D 12''H which unless I'm having a brain fart is impossible since that same spec sheet says it can do 18'' pizzas (plus we know it can from this thread) so the depth is at a bare minimum 2'' short. (https://www.waringcommercialproducts.com/files/products/WPO500-Single-Deck-Pizza-Oven-Spec-Sheet-20200504.pdf)

Spec sheets from other vendors have it at 26''W 28''D 16''H which sounds more realistic, but then there's a video from a review on Webstaurant showing closer to 20'' depth, and then a youtube video of a WPO750 (should be same as WPO500 minus height?) showing around 22'' depth, and 26'' depth including the handle.

At this point I am fairly sold on the WPO500, but trying to figure out if a 30''x23'' stand I currently have will allow all 4 legs to sit on top of it. Looking forward to seeing some more of your pizzas from this oven!
Title: Re: Joj's NY Style Learning Thread (Waring WPO500)
Post by: AndyBern on April 17, 2021, 10:53:49 PM
Same here. I'm also looking at the WPO500 and wondering the same thing about the stand. What is the leg spacing?
Title: Re: Joj's NY Style Learning Thread (Waring WPO500)
Post by: Joj on April 18, 2021, 12:41:42 AM
Sorry to bug you about this stuff but Waring and vendors have been non-responsive. Do you happen to know the measurements for the oven, or specifically the distance between feet depthwise? Seeing a lot of conflicting information. Waring's official spec sheet has the oven at 26''W 16''D 12''H which unless I'm having a brain fart is impossible since that same spec sheet says it can do 18'' pizzas (plus we know it can from this thread) so the depth is at a bare minimum 2'' short. (https://www.waringcommercialproducts.com/files/products/WPO500-Single-Deck-Pizza-Oven-Spec-Sheet-20200504.pdf)

Spec sheets from other vendors have it at 26''W 28''D 16''H which sounds more realistic, but then there's a video from a review on Webstaurant showing closer to 20'' depth, and then a youtube video of a WPO750 (should be same as WPO500 minus height?) showing around 22'' depth, and 26'' depth including the handle.

At this point I am fairly sold on the WPO500, but trying to figure out if a 30''x23'' stand I currently have will allow all 4 legs to sit on top of it. Looking forward to seeing some more of your pizzas from this oven!

Distance between the feet depthwise, 18" (see below). Distance between the feet widthwise, 24" (see below). Your 30"X23" stand actually sounds perfect.


Same here. I'm also looking at the WPO500 and wondering the same thing about the stand. What is the leg spacing?

24"W and 18"D for the leg spacing.

I also took a couple pics of the oven chamber depth and width.
Title: Re: Joj's NY Style Learning Thread (Waring WPO500)
Post by: Joj on April 18, 2021, 01:03:16 AM
Baked a couple more same day doughs tonight.

Dough, same as the same day formulation above except I took the cheese pie hydration down to 58% and the pepperoni pie down to 61% (just experimenting). 3.5hr RT ferment, ambient temperature 68 degrees. Yeast (IDY) from the table https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=26831.msg511590#msg511590.

I also used 45 degree bottled water for the dough instead of tap water.

480g dough ball opened to 16"

Baked on a 16" screen 600f for 8 minutes, rotated 180 degrees 5 minutes in.
Title: Re: Joj's NY Style Learning Thread (Waring WPO500)
Post by: Joj on April 18, 2021, 01:06:10 AM
WPO500 in action midbake https://imgur.com/gallery/DQrOHIV.
Title: Re: Joj's NY Style Learning Thread (Waring WPO500)
Post by: Zaroh on April 18, 2021, 01:14:47 PM
Awesome thanks a bunch Joj! Those pizzas are looking great by the way. Looks like you're getting that better browning you were looking for.
Title: Re: Joj's NY Style Learning Thread (Waring WPO500)
Post by: Joj on April 25, 2021, 06:54:52 PM
FINALLY got my hands on some Grande, holy smokes THAT is the melt I grew up with and was seeking. I was so excited seeing that cheese come out of the oven.
Title: Re: Joj's NY Style Learning Thread (Waring WPO500)
Post by: Joj on May 17, 2021, 12:43:21 PM
Been making a lot of pies, really liking the Essen1 dough at 60% with a 48hr cf. A few weekend pics here of a hot honey pie.
Title: Re: Joj's NY Style Learning Thread (Waring WPO500)
Post by: pwc123 on May 17, 2021, 12:56:47 PM
Been making a lot of pies, really liking the Essen1 dough at 60% with a 48hr cf. A few weekend pics here of a hot honey pie.
I can't figure out why I'm not getting the top heat I need from my Waring. I preheated to 600 for 90 minutes and then turned off the bottom heat element and maxed out the top heat. It still took about 10 minutes to bake on a screen the entire time. I'm looking for more char and a more airy crust, but I think I need to go higher hydration to get the more open crust.

Now I'm trying to figure out whether I have an issue with my oven or my outlets. Shouldn't take that long to cook a pie at that temperature. Was hoping for better results given the investment.

What's your technique with this oven? Thanks!
Title: Re: Joj's NY Style Learning Thread (Waring WPO500)
Post by: Peter B on May 17, 2021, 01:02:42 PM
I can't figure out why I'm not getting the top heat I need from my Waring. I preheated to 600 for 90 minutes and then turned off the bottom heat element and maxed out the top heat. It still took about 10 minutes to bake on a screen the entire time. I'm looking for more char and a more airy crust, but I think I need to go higher hydration to get the more open crust.

Now I'm trying to figure out whether I have an issue with my oven or my outlets. Shouldn't take that long to cook a pie at that temperature. Was hoping for better results given the investment.

What's your technique with this oven? Thanks!

Just to clarify - you preheated the oven, then killed the bottom heat, maxed out the top heat, baked on a screen the whole time and still the bottom was done before the top?
Title: Re: Joj's NY Style Learning Thread (Waring WPO500)
Post by: pwc123 on May 17, 2021, 01:03:02 PM
My Waring thermometer also reads 50 degrees below the dial setting. Is that your experience too?
Title: Re: Joj's NY Style Learning Thread (Waring WPO500)
Post by: pwc123 on May 17, 2021, 01:03:32 PM
Just to clarify - you preheated the oven, then killed the bottom heat, maxed out the top heat, baked on a screen the whole time and still the bottom was done before the top?
That's correct.
Title: Re: Joj's NY Style Learning Thread (Waring WPO500)
Post by: Joj on May 19, 2021, 04:18:46 PM
I can't figure out why I'm not getting the top heat I need from my Waring. I preheated to 600 for 90 minutes and then turned off the bottom heat element and maxed out the top heat. It still took about 10 minutes to bake on a screen the entire time. I'm looking for more char and a more airy crust, but I think I need to go higher hydration to get the more open crust.

Now I'm trying to figure out whether I have an issue with my oven or my outlets. Shouldn't take that long to cook a pie at that temperature. Was hoping for better results given the investment.

What's your technique with this oven? Thanks!

I do love this oven and had a similar experience to yours (seeking shorter bakes, looking for the top to brown easily given the temps and low ceiling).
At first, I was frustrated as well (subpar top browning), the last ~10 bakes I have been using my eyes and what I am seeing vs "what I expect to be occurring."

Others may have different experiences and I do not have the touch yet to have same-day doughs come out looking like Essen1's but here is my oven technique.

In my experience with my Waring, I have liked my 10-12 minutes bakes much more than shorter bakes. I have had far better browning with the 48hr cf doughs than a same-day dough (even with sugar & DM). I am still learning and would love other's feedback as well.
Title: Re: Joj's NY Style Learning Thread (Waring WPO500)
Post by: Joj on May 19, 2021, 04:20:14 PM
My Waring thermometer also reads 50 degrees below the dial setting. Is that your experience too?

Yes, mine is not close. I have it covered with tape and "Largely Irrelevant" written on it (:

I would try putting an oven thermometer inside to see what the interior temp actually is after you've had the long preheat.
Title: Re: Joj's NY Style Learning Thread (Waring WPO500)
Post by: pwc123 on May 19, 2021, 04:34:34 PM
Yes, mine is not close. I have it covered with tape and "Largely Irrelevant" written on it (:

I would try putting an oven thermometer inside to see what the interior temp actually is after you've had the long preheat.
Thanks so much for your detailed responses! I need some time to process how I feel about having to use such a convoluted process to get the results we want. At the price point, I would have assumed it'd have enough power from the top element to completely burn the top of a pizza if that were my intent. We shouldn't have to be maxing out the top heat to just barely get where we want and it shouldn't be a gamble on performance from one unit to the next. From Essen's photos, it's hard to believe we're using the same gear (not saying I have any clue what I'm doing with dough relative to him!). My expectations and the reality are not aligned much right now.

I don't want to intrude on your thread, but I'll plan to post some of my experiences here as well - with your approval. I've only baked three pies so far. Thanks again!
Title: Re: Joj's NY Style Learning Thread (Waring WPO500)
Post by: Joj on May 19, 2021, 04:37:48 PM
Thanks so much for your detailed responses! I need some time to process how I feel about having to use such a convoluted process to get the results we want. At the price point, I would have assumed it'd have enough power from the top element to completely burn the top of a pizza if that were my intent. We shouldn't have to be maxing out the top heat to just barely get where we want and it shouldn't be a gamble on performance from one unit to the next. From Essen's photos, it's hard to believe we're using the same gear (not saying I have any clue what I'm doing with dough relative to him!). My expectations and the reality are not aligned much right now.

I don't want to intrude on your thread, but I'll plan to post some of my experiences here as well - with your approval. I've only baked three pies so far. Thanks again!

When I spell it out like that it sounds convoluted but it flows pretty easily when you're actually doing it.

You're never intruding, the more Waring info/experiences out there the better. Bake more pies :)
Title: Re: Joj's NY Style Learning Thread (Waring WPO500)
Post by: pwc123 on May 19, 2021, 04:56:59 PM
When I spell it out like that it sounds convoluted but it flows pretty easily when you're actually doing it.

You're never intruding, the more Waring info/experiences out there the better. Bake more pies :)
On it!
Title: Re: Joj's NY Style Learning Thread (Waring WPO500)
Post by: Zaroh on May 20, 2021, 02:40:50 AM
Going to chime in here as well, I too see the 50 degree discrepancy on my built-in thermometer. I don't know if it's a positional issue of some sort, but given a few different users here see that behaviour it'd be a heck of a coincidence. Regardless, I still really like the oven. Maybe I should be more upset at it given the price tag, but it does not bother me a whole lot. Plus those pies are looking great Joj so that methodology you are using is working well.

Joj, you mentioned it's around 100 degrees off for you, are you finding the oven is actually cooler than what the built-in thermometer says, or warmer using your own oven thermometer?

My plan this weekend is to try and bake some pies at ~625F and see how they turn out. My very first bake with the oven I severely undercooked it. With baking temperatures higher than I was used to my eyes deceived me and I took it out too soon. So far I am feeling like a screen is absolutely necessary with the stock stone. It's funny because I told myself I would stick with the stock stone no matter what, but as I see more comments and data points about the bottom cooking faster than top, I am left wondering whether I should go for a stone that conducts less heat or takes longer to heat up in hopes of "balancing" things out. I want to give the out of box configuration a fair chance though, so sticking with stock deck for now.

I'm definitely on board for sharing more data and experience as well. Like you said the more the better, and everyone benefits from it. I'm a total newb compared to you guys, but excited to see what we can do with this oven. If you are OK with I'll happily post some info here as well (primarily fails most likely  ::) ) and we can expand the knowledgebase on this oven.
Title: Re: Joj's NY Style Learning Thread (Waring WPO500)
Post by: Joj on May 20, 2021, 11:55:17 AM
Zaroh,

My oven is substantially hotter than what the built-in thermometer says.

The screen is a must for me when balancing top/bottom heat.

Please do post any and all info!! We can learn a lot from perceived "failures," I prefer the term feedback instead.
Title: Re: Joj's NY Style Learning Thread (Waring WPO500)
Post by: pwc123 on May 20, 2021, 08:48:02 PM
Same for me with the screen, absolute necessity.

I did some experimenting tonight, and I was somewhat surprised with what I saw. I set the oven to 650 and waited 90 minutes. The temperature inside settled out at 600. I then dialed it to 750 and, once again, the temperature settled 50 degrees lower than the dial around 700. The internal temperature was closer to 650, but I may not have allowed enough time after increasing the dial.

So in my case, my built-in thermometer seems accurate, but the oven temperature lags the dial by a somewhat consistent 50 degrees. Wonder if I can get the dial recalibrated... Not sure there's much else to test out without actually baking a pizza since I already tested my outlets. Not exactly scientific.

I may preheat for an hour and a half at 650 and then turn off the bottom element 15 minutes before my Sunday bake and see how that goes.
Title: Re: Joj's NY Style Learning Thread (Waring WPO500)
Post by: pwc123 on May 21, 2021, 10:14:52 AM
Here's an hour and 45 minutes at 750 on the dial. Didn't hit 700 on the built-in thermometer and was below 650 inside.
Title: Re: Joj's NY Style Learning Thread (Waring WPO500)
Post by: pwc123 on May 23, 2021, 12:54:32 PM
Preheated at 650 on the dial for 2 hours. Turned off the top element and maxed out then dial when I put the pie in. After about 8 minutes, I turned the bottom heat back on and the pie was taken out before 11 minutes. The cheese greased off heavily, but the pie ate well. Not sure what else I can tinker with to get the heat balance better.
Title: Re: Joj's NY Style Learning Thread (Waring WPO500)
Post by: Fiorot on May 23, 2021, 05:11:38 PM
I have been using my 750 for about 2 years.  The top oven reacts a bit different than the bottom one.  What I can tell you  is with a screen it takes a long time to get the bottom correct.  I know this with repeated 18 inch pies.  The top tends to lead the bottom.  8 minutes is normal for me using the screen and I have gone to 650 when using them.  For a 16inch launch on the stone cooking times are reduced to 5 to 7 minutes.  And I have to watch the bottom more carefully and I also rotate the pie once about at 4 minutes same using the screen.    I do use sugar and dmp in my dough.  It browns the crust and bottom  faster.  My dough for NY Pie is 60 percent hydration and ALL trumps flour and grande is my cheese.   I find with a less cooked top the cheese is much more elastic.  As for fermentation times I have tried all up to 5 days.   The longer the time the less spring.  Yes more water will make that spring better.  Also let the oven recover 5 minutes before another launch.    Your pictures show the tops which some may consider towards the well done side.  If the only picture of the bottom with the screen then you need to lose the screen.  Also some semolina on the stone gives you more cooked color and spots. Just flour seems to keep the bottom light grey while the top is done.   Believe me the tile when broken in with dark areas really helps the cosmetic appearance on the bottom.  So scrape off the burnt crust but don't scrub the tile totally clean.  I was having some of the problems  you mention at the beginning of using the oven.   And there is nothing wrong with the oven or your outlets. btw I have never turned on and off the switches when baking and I think after 11/2 hours of preheating I don't think it makes a difference anyway. If anything it hurts the next pie.   
Title: Re: Joj's NY Style Learning Thread (Waring WPO500)
Post by: pwc123 on May 23, 2021, 05:36:07 PM
I have been using my 750 for about 2 years.  The top oven reacts a bit different than the bottom one.  What I can tell you  is with a screen it takes a long time to get the bottom correct.  I know this with repeated 18 inch pies.  The top tends to lead the bottom.  8 minutes is normal for me using the screen and I have gone to 650 when using them.  For a 16inch launch on the stone cooking times are reduced to 5 to 7 minutes.  And I have to watch the bottom more carefully and I also rotate the pie once about at 4 minutes same using the screen.    I do use sugar and dmp in my dough.  It browns the crust and bottom  faster.  My dough for NY Pie is 60 percent hydration and ALL trumps flour and grande is my cheese.   I find with a less cooked top the cheese is much more elastic.  As for fermentation times I have tried all up to 5 days.   The longer the time the less spring.  Yes more water will make that spring better.  Also let the oven recover 5 minutes before another launch.    Your pictures show the tops which some may consider towards the well done side.  If the only picture of the bottom with the screen then you need to lose the screen.  Also some semolina on the stone gives you more cooked color and spots. Just flour seems to keep the bottom light grey while the top is done.   Believe me the tile when broken in with dark areas really helps the cosmetic appearance on the bottom.  So scrape off the burnt crust but don't scrub the tile totally clean.  I was having some of the problems  you mention at the beginning of using the oven.   And there is nothing wrong with the oven or your outlets. btw I have never turned on and off the switches when baking and I think after 11/2 hours of preheating I don't think it makes a difference anyway. If anything it hurts the next pie.
Thanks for the feedback. The bottom would have gotten more color had I turned the bottom element back on earlier, which I'll do next time. Doubtful I can cook a balanced pizza in my Waring directly on the stone.

And yes, I prefer a well done crust and haven't figured out how to get any leoparding on the top yet. Here are some pictures of what I'd like to be able to achieve in this oven (cooked in a standard oven with a broiler at my last place). I'll need to change around my dough to get that in the Waring though, if I can at all.

I'm using Sir Lancelot high gluten and Grande. I was using All Trumps before and haven't noticed much of a difference in performance.
Title: Re: Joj's NY Style Learning Thread (Waring WPO500)
Post by: Joj on May 23, 2021, 08:54:29 PM
PWC, what is the current dough formulation you are using?
Title: Re: Joj's NY Style Learning Thread (Waring WPO500)
Post by: pwc123 on May 23, 2021, 09:02:22 PM
I did 63% today, but I usually do something with hydration in the high 50s. Generally use more sugar too. That dough was made on Thursday, so about 4 days on the CF. I haven't done enough experimenting with my dough - I'd be the first to admit that.
Title: Re: Joj's NY Style Learning Thread (Waring WPO500)
Post by: Zaroh on May 23, 2021, 09:27:48 PM
Those pies look great pwc! I did a bake of my own this afternoon. Overall I would say it wasn't spectacular or anything, but better than recent attempts and the taste was definitely there. With regards specifically to the oven, I did a pretty quick preheat where I set the dial to 675F, waited for the built-in thermometer to say 625F, then launched a pie in immediately on a screen. I "kept my nerve' this time where even when I saw some smoke coming out of the exhaust I kept it in for the full 10 minutes I had on the timer. What's interesting is to get to 625F I really only needed to preheat ~55 minutes to 1 hour. That includes the stone being ready, as it read ~680F.

I was following the Joe's recipe here: https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=66137.msg646629#msg646629 albeit my pies came out looking nothing like Joe's but I'm working on it. The only thing I did differently was a 4 hour RT ferment rather than 12 hour+ CF. I am also only doing 14'' pizzas until I really get dialed into a recipe and bake that I like.

Just for fun, I took my first pie off the screen for the last minute. I don't think it had much of an effect either way. My second pie I turned the bottom burner off 5 minutes before cooking, and in hindsight maybe I should have waited longer. I also ate the first pie before doing the second pie, which lead to it being somewhat overproofed hence the bubbles on the second one. For both the bottom was a little bit overdone, but it was still alright. Some photos below.

I am in Canada so I'm not using any of the common flours found in the U.S. Instead I am using a bread flour from Robin Hood which is one of the bigger brands in Canada. I am contemplating switching to All Purpose flour to see how that does by comparison. I'd originally switched to bread flour because I really wanted that browning on the bottom, but since that's no longer an issue maybe it's worth the switch back.

Title: Re: Joj's NY Style Learning Thread (Waring WPO500)
Post by: pwc123 on May 23, 2021, 09:38:04 PM
Your pies looking tasty as well! Thanks for sharing.

Your top heat seems stronger than mine in both of your bakes today too. Lots of other variables at play though. My bakes also create steam that comes out of the rear of the oven. Crossed my mind that could be impacting the top crust browning.
Title: Re: Joj's NY Style Learning Thread (Waring WPO500)
Post by: Zaroh on May 23, 2021, 10:04:16 PM
Thanks! Still in the early days of playing with the oven, but I think the sugar helped quite a bit with this bake. I stopped using sugar for a while, but after today's bake I think it is worth keeping it in my recipe. I also took oil out per the Joe's recipe, although I did use oil in my proofing pans to make it easier to get the doughballs out. I am going to try and use up my bread flour in the next week or two, then I can post some results with AP flour.
Title: Re: Joj's NY Style Learning Thread (Waring WPO500)
Post by: Caaleb on May 25, 2021, 02:02:36 AM
A couple months ago I bought a wpo500 from another member. Kind of on a whim. My first couple bakes were not perfect. Like everyone else I had super pale tops and almost burnt bottoms.

I tried for a few weeks and got frustrated and went back to my home oven. I saw this thread and would like to join in the effort to achieve even top browning.

I tried again tonight. Preheated the bottom to about 550, same as my home oven. I turned the bottom heat off and kept the top on. The bottom still climbed to about 625 by the time I stretched and topped. I donít think the dial never went above 400.

Like usual the top heat was awful. I attempted to open the oven door as little as possible. The first bake was light blonde. Even after a 20 minute preheat the 2nd pies crust was ghost white. Itís definitely not the dough as this was 3% sugar 3% milk powder w/ malted flour. Had to throw them under the broiler. I donít like the way the crust feels vs good top heat.


Pic is from tonightís bake. 17inches, I had pretty uneven ovenspring. The side closes to the door was way more dense. But I think that would be fixed with more heat in the oven.

I ordered a high heat oven thermometer and my first plan will be seeing what Iím actually getting inside. Than I can see what I can do to improve that. So far Iíve just been guessing, my gauge seems suuuuper off. We just need to figure out how to get some more heat into that oven and keep it there.

Maybe we can do something with added insulation. The guy I bought it from seemed pretty handy, I might give him a text.





Title: Re: Joj's NY Style Learning Thread (Waring WPO500)
Post by: pwc123 on May 25, 2021, 07:51:25 AM
A couple months ago I bought a wpo500 from another member. Kind of on a whim. My first couple bakes were not perfect. Like everyone else I had super pale tops and almost burnt bottoms.

I tried for a few weeks and got frustrated and went back to my home oven. I saw this thread and would like to join in the effort to achieve even top browning.

I tried again tonight. Preheated the bottom to about 550, same as my home oven. I turned the bottom heat off and kept the top on. The bottom still climbed to about 625 by the time I stretched and topped. I donít think the dial never went above 400.

Like usual the top heat was awful. I attempted to open the oven door as little as possible. The first bake was light blonde. Even after a 20 minute preheat the 2nd pies crust was ghost white. Itís definitely not the dough as this was 3% sugar 3% milk powder w/ malted flour. Had to throw them under the broiler. I donít like the way the crust feels vs good top heat.


Pic is from tonightís bake. 17inches, I had pretty uneven ovenspring. The side closes to the door was way more dense. But I think that would be fixed with more heat in the oven.

I ordered a high heat oven thermometer and my first plan will be seeing what Iím actually getting inside. Than I can see what I can do to improve that. So far Iíve just been guessing, my gauge seems suuuuper off. We just need to figure out how to get some more heat into that oven and keep it there.

Maybe we can do something with added insulation. The guy I bought it from seemed pretty handy, I might give him a text.
Are you using a screen too?

I'd be interested it trying to modify the oven as well. But I don't want to void my warranty quite yet. I have the option to get my oven serviced, but I have a feeling they won't consider this an issue since you can see the four heating elements on the top are functioning. I highly doubt their service will involve actually cooking pizza.
Title: Re: Joj's NY Style Learning Thread (Waring WPO500)
Post by: Caaleb on May 25, 2021, 12:25:34 PM
Are you using a screen too?

I'd be interested it trying to modify the oven as well. But I don't want to void my warranty quite yet. I have the option to get my oven serviced, but I have a feeling they won't consider this an issue since you can see the four heating elements on the top are functioning. I highly doubt their service will involve actually cooking pizza.

I am not, Iíve tried both ways and for my particular dough, it really seems to limit my oven spring and make it more chewy, I guess I could experiment with putting it on a screen after the bottom is brown. But for how expensive this of is it really should be performing better. From what Iíve seen I think my particular oven is extra terrible with top heat. Iím really disappointed honestly. 
Title: Re: Joj's NY Style Learning Thread (Waring WPO500)
Post by: Zaroh on May 25, 2021, 01:59:54 PM
I am not, Iíve tried both ways and for my particular dough, it really seems to limit my oven spring and make it more chewy, I guess I could experiment with putting it on a screen after the bottom is brown. But for how expensive this of is it really should be performing better. From what Iíve seen I think my particular oven is extra terrible with top heat. Iím really disappointed honestly.

That is interesting. I noticed my pizzas have been a tad chewy as well, but didn't attribute it to a screen. I hadn't used pizza screens prior to purchasing the WPO. Are screens a common reason why a crust would be chewier?

In that Joe's recipe I linked Andrew Bellucci also says in the thread that they launch it with no screen and put it on a screen after a minute. It is also mentioned they sometimes double or triple screen a pie, which is a really interesting idea I hadn't thought of (https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=66137.msg646780#msg646780) . I think I am going to try that my next bake. Could solve two problems at once where the bottom gets crispy enough initially, and then the double/triple screens after the fact make it so it doesn't totally burn while the top browns.

I guess the only drawback is if you're doing 18'' pies you would need to be pretty confident in your launching skills.  I'm still doing 14''-16'' pies so less of a concern for me.
Title: Re: Joj's NY Style Learning Thread (Waring WPO500)
Post by: pwc123 on May 25, 2021, 02:29:40 PM
That is interesting. I noticed my pizzas have been a tad chewy as well, but didn't attribute it to a screen. I hadn't used pizza screens prior to purchasing the WPO. Are screens a common reason why a crust would be chewier?

In that Joe's recipe I linked Andrew Bellucci also says in the thread that they launch it with no screen and put it on a screen after a minute. It is also mentioned they sometimes double or triple screen a pie, which is a really interesting idea I hadn't thought of (https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=66137.msg646780#msg646780) . I think I am going to try that my next bake. Could solve two problems at once where the bottom gets crispy enough initially, and then the double/triple screens after the fact make it so it doesn't totally burn while the top browns.

I guess the only drawback is if you're doing 18'' pies you would need to be pretty confident in your launching skills.  I'm still doing 14''-16'' pies so less of a concern for me.
Very interested experiment. Good luck!

Any deck oven would have to have a far hotter top element to compensate for the physical distance to the pizza relative to the bottom. These appear to be similar, which isn't cutting it for us.
Title: Re: Joj's NY Style Learning Thread (Waring WPO500)
Post by: Caaleb on May 25, 2021, 04:24:36 PM
That is interesting. I noticed my pizzas have been a tad chewy as well, but didn't attribute it to a screen. I hadn't used pizza screens prior to purchasing the WPO. Are screens a common reason why a crust would be chewier?

In that Joe's recipe I linked Andrew Bellucci also says in the thread that they launch it with no screen and put it on a screen after a minute. It is also mentioned they sometimes double or triple screen a pie, which is a really interesting idea I hadn't thought of (https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=66137.msg646780#msg646780) . I think I am going to try that my next bake. Could solve two problems at once where the bottom gets crispy enough initially, and then the double/triple screens after the fact make it so it doesn't totally burn while the top browns.

I guess the only drawback is if you're doing 18'' pies you would need to be pretty confident in your launching skills.  I'm still doing 14''-16'' pies so less of a concern for me.

I can definitely see a direct correlation in the ovenspring and how open the crumb is when I bake on a stone vs screen on a stone. For my dough the more open and airy it is the less chewy. And somehow it tastes more moist with more air. I would try this to launch on the stone and than put it on the screen. But again, this is just my dough. If you guys enjoy the results you are getting from the screen I donít wanna %$# all over it. Theyíre many ways to achieve great pizza.

My warranty is already super voided so I have no problem trying anything,

So idea #1. My waring came with a 1inch Cali pizza stone from the guy. My oven had absolutely no problem getting that thing 600+. Even when it was on top of the stock stone.  I tried baking on the 1in stone and it made no difference with top heat, even an inch closer to the heat source.

So maybe if I purchased a thinner, maybe 1/3ish inch stone, and somehow added some mounts on the ceiling, so that I could slide the stone and it would sit directly on the ceiling, and hover just above the pizza. You could preheat it on the bottom, and then somehow get it above the pizza, I think that would provide a pretty good amount of top heat. Iíve seen others use a 2 stone set up, Iíve personally never tried so I donít have any idea how much heat it actually provides. If you could somehow preheat the upper stone more than the lower, like to 750 I would think it would provide a ton of heat.

https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=30327.0

This thread may be if interest. Could we trick the oven thermometer to think itís colder, or play with heat reflection?

Could we somehow add our own broiler or heat source to the top of the ceiling? Im not very handy with this type of stuff at all unfortunately.
Title: Re: Joj's NY Style Learning Thread (Waring WPO500)
Post by: pwc123 on May 25, 2021, 05:15:15 PM
Good thoughts. I'm terrified just thinking of trying to launch an 18" pie in this oven. I'm sure the screen is decreasing spring though, that's just reality.

I think I saw elsewhere that someone was considering removing the protective metal sheeting from the top. Not sure how that ended up though.
Title: Re: Joj's NY Style Learning Thread (Waring WPO500)
Post by: Caaleb on May 25, 2021, 05:25:20 PM
Good thoughts. I'm terrified just thinking of trying to launch an 18" pie in this oven. I'm sure the screen is decreasing spring though, that's just reality.

I think I saw elsewhere that someone was considering removing the protective metal sheeting from the top. Not sure how that ended up though.

Yeah it would be pretty tight. Thatís the nice thing about screens. Perfectly round and perfect launch everytime. Just spitballing ideas, maybe a higher hydration, sense it doesnít have to not stick to the peel. And letting it proof a little on the screen first I think would give better ovenspring. You could open the pie, place on the screen and lightly paint with oil so it doesnít dry out. And put it in a 90 degree oven for however long it takes to get a little more rise.


I think this is relevant to what we are thinking about. I am just having a hard time understanding but I keep seeing the word thermocouples.
http://cookingissues.com/2009/06/04/how-to-modify-an-oven-or-not/

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.reddit.com/r/AskEngineers/comments/6x6570/hack_oven_for_pizza/ Also appears in this thread

ďGet a cheap toaster oven at your local thrift store. Get a $12 thermocouple controlled relay on eBay. Bypass therm control on toaster oven, have thermocouple controller turn oven on and off via power cord. Loosely cover interior of toaster oven with stainless steel foil, and door.

Makes incredible 8"-10" think crust pizzas at 600F in a couple of minutes. Do it outside.Ē

Iíd be willing to pay an actual engineer to help us fix this.

Also, Joj, would you like me to start a different thread for modifying this oven? I donít wanna take over your thread



Title: Re: Joj's NY Style Learning Thread (Waring WPO500)
Post by: Joj on May 25, 2021, 05:33:03 PM
Has anyone experimented with a test bake deliberately trying to cook the top much faster than the bottom? To establish an upper bound and work back from there?

- Set dial to max.
- Only have the top element on.
- Preheat for ~60-70min.
- Attempt a bake and observe.

Just spitballing but I'm tempted to try.
Title: Re: Joj's NY Style Learning Thread (Waring WPO500)
Post by: pwc123 on May 25, 2021, 05:35:51 PM
Has anyone experimented with a test bake deliberately trying to cook the top much faster than the bottom? To establish an upper bound and work back from there?

- Set dial to max.
- Only have the top element on.
- Preheat for ~60-70min.
- Attempt a bake and observe.

Just spitballing but I'm tempted to try.
Yes. I did my last bake with only top element on, dialed all the way up. The cheese started greasing off before the bottom was done so I ended up turning the bottom back on for the end of the bake.

But it still didn't give me any char like my old broiler would.
Title: Re: Joj's NY Style Learning Thread (Waring WPO500)
Post by: Joj on May 26, 2021, 04:27:47 PM
Yeah it would be pretty tight. Thatís the nice thing about screens. Perfectly round and perfect launch everytime. Just spitballing ideas, maybe a higher hydration, sense it doesnít have to not stick to the peel. And letting it proof a little on the screen first I think would give better ovenspring. You could open the pie, place on the screen and lightly paint with oil so it doesnít dry out. And put it in a 90 degree oven for however long it takes to get a little more rise.


I think this is relevant to what we are thinking about. I am just having a hard time understanding but I keep seeing the word thermocouples.
http://cookingissues.com/2009/06/04/how-to-modify-an-oven-or-not/

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.reddit.com/r/AskEngineers/comments/6x6570/hack_oven_for_pizza/ Also appears in this thread

ďGet a cheap toaster oven at your local thrift store. Get a $12 thermocouple controlled relay on eBay. Bypass therm control on toaster oven, have thermocouple controller turn oven on and off via power cord. Loosely cover interior of toaster oven with stainless steel foil, and door.

Makes incredible 8"-10" think crust pizzas at 600F in a couple of minutes. Do it outside.Ē

Iíd be willing to pay an actual engineer to help us fix this.

Also, Joj, would you like me to start a different thread for modifying this oven? I donít wanna take over your thread

There's a lot of good information going here, I'm fine leaving this thread as a "Waring WPO500 Learning Thread." I only bake in the Waring so any of my additions will be on-topic. I have dough in the fridge to bake tomorrow night.

Title: Re: Joj's NY Style Learning Thread (Waring WPO500)
Post by: Caaleb on May 27, 2021, 09:04:04 PM
So I got my high heat thermometer in the mail. I preheated both elements until the stone hit 560. It continues to climb after the bottom is off. The inside thermometer read about 500 I think.

Iíve been preheating the top only for about 40 minutes now. The outside gauge has actually gone down from 475 to 400?!?

The inside thermometer is sitting at 625 and has seemed to plateaued. Iím not sure how I didnít realize this but apparently I have a outlet that has more volts in my garage so Iím going to transfer my oven to that and see if I can get it higher.

Another idea: it seems that the oven doesnít want to heat very well without the bottom element on. But if you preheat all the way with the bottom and top on the the bottom will be way hotter and you will have to pull early or use a screen.

Sense my oven came with an extra 1in thick pizza stone, I could preheat it for awhile without the stone, than add the 2nd stone. To give the top and head start. Iím really hoping this outlet will let me get hotter than 600 internally. This could crack the stone tho, sense sudden temp changes is what will crack it.

But this also indicated I think that there is something wrong with the insulation or how the oven holds the heat. Because 600 should have no problem browning my dough, but Iíve never been able to. And Iíve done way longer preheats one the past which Iím sure got to 600.


Title: Re: Joj's NY Style Learning Thread (Waring WPO500)
Post by: pwc123 on May 27, 2021, 09:19:30 PM
So I got my high heat thermometer in the mail. I preheated both elements until the stone hit 560. It continues to climb after the bottom is off. The inside thermometer read about 500 I think.

Iíve been preheating the top only for about 40 minutes now. The outside gauge has actually gone down from 475 to 400?!?

The inside thermometer is sitting at 625 and has seemed to plateaued. Iím not sure how I didnít realize this but apparently I have a outlet that has more volts in my garage so Iím going to transfer my oven to that and see if I can get it higher.

Another idea: it seems that the oven doesnít want to heat very well without the bottom element on. But if you preheat all the way with the bottom and top on the the bottom will be way hotter and you will have to pull early or use a screen.

Sense my oven came with an extra 1in thick pizza stone, I could preheat it for awhile without the stone, than add the 2nd stone. To give the top and head start. Iím really hoping this outlet will let me get hotter than 600 internally.

But this also indicated I think that there is something wrong with the insulation or how the oven holds the heat. Because 600 should have no problem browning my dough, but Iíve never been able to. And Iíve done way longer preheats one the past which Iím sure got to 600.
Same observations on my end. With top element only on the oven drops heat gradually, which isn't a total surprise. But with both on and an internal temperature of 600+, total cook time shouldn't be close to 10 minutes. Yet it takes that long and more to get the top cooked. Interior heat, stone heat, and top heat are all materially different as far as I can tell so far.
Title: Re: Joj's NY Style Learning Thread (Waring WPO500)
Post by: Caaleb on May 28, 2021, 12:11:48 AM
Same observations on my end. With top element only on the oven drops heat gradually, which isn't a total surprise. But with both on and an internal temperature of 600+, total cook time shouldn't be close to 10 minutes. Yet it takes that long and more to get the top cooked. Interior heat, stone heat, and top heat are all materially different as far as I can tell so far.

Just baked a massively blonde pizza. Bottom is near burnt. Iím pretty frustrated. Honestly not sure there is any saving this oven
Title: Re: Joj's NY Style Learning Thread (Waring WPO500)
Post by: pwc123 on June 01, 2021, 12:09:37 PM
Just baked a massively blonde pizza. Bottom is near burnt. Iím pretty frustrated. Honestly not sure there is any saving this oven
Yup. I'm going to do one more bake this weekend and then bring it in to get serviced. To me, the question is whether some WPO500 ovens have stronger top heat and we simply got unlucky in the purchase lottery - plenty of positive reviews here and elsewhere. But then again that could be mostly from a vocal minority. Seems the quality control, even on just the three units posting in this thread, doesn't match the pricing.

I don't have any intention of swapping these out until I get one that works satisfactorily. It's a huge space vacuum that's hard to justify when not any better than our home oven. When I called Waring, the representative did admit they occasionally get complaints about heating on their ovens, but couldn't recall seeing any for our specific model. Sure the service center won't modify the oven to make the top hotter. They'll just confirm whether it's turning on. I know there's a wait for service too; I'll remember to post updates here though.
Title: Re: Joj's NY Style Learning Thread (Waring WPO500)
Post by: pwc123 on June 06, 2021, 01:30:43 PM
I tripled the sugar in my dough and it helped quite a bit with the browning. Much better results. This was cooked on the screen for the entire bake, almost 12 minutes. I preheated with dial at 650, turned off bottom element and maxed out the dial for the top element only for the full 12 minutes.

I'd suggest you all try to change up your normal dough recipe and see what happens.
Title: Re: Joj's NY Style Learning Thread (Waring WPO500)
Post by: Joj on June 10, 2021, 04:05:41 PM
60% GM Full strength dough (Essen1's formulation), 48hr CF, opened to 16". 405g dough ball weight. 6oz of 6 in 1 MAE herb sauce, 9oz Grande WMLM (frozen).

Preheated for an hour (both elements) with dial set to 700. At launch shut off the bottom element and turned the top element up to max. ~8min total bake.
Bake video
https://imgur.com/gallery/wLLdUrs (https://imgur.com/gallery/wLLdUrs)
Title: Re: Joj's NY Style Learning Thread (Waring WPO500)
Post by: 9slicePie on June 10, 2021, 04:15:29 PM
I tripled the sugar in my dough and it helped quite a bit with the browning. Much better results. This was cooked on the screen for the entire bake, almost 12 minutes. I preheated with dial at 650, turned off bottom element and maxed out the dial for the top element only for the full 12 minutes.

I'd suggest you all try to change up your normal dough recipe and see what happens.
Nice size.  What's the diameter of that pie?
Title: Re: Joj's NY Style Learning Thread (Waring WPO500)
Post by: pwc123 on June 10, 2021, 04:16:10 PM
60% GM Full strength dough (Essen1's formulation), 48hr CF, opened to 16". 405g dough ball weight. 6oz of 6 in 1 MAE herb sauce, 9oz Grande WMLM (frozen).

Preheated for an hour (both elements) with dial set to 700. At launch shut off the bottom element and turned the top element up to max. ~8min total bake.
Bake video
https://imgur.com/gallery/wLLdUrs (https://imgur.com/gallery/wLLdUrs)
Looks great, were you happy with it?
Title: Re: Joj's NY Style Learning Thread (Waring WPO500)
Post by: pwc123 on June 10, 2021, 04:17:38 PM
Nice.  What's the diameter of that pie?
18" screen, pie probably 17ish since I don't want the dough spilling over and touching the walls of the oven.
Title: Re: Joj's NY Style Learning Thread (Waring WPO500)
Post by: pwc123 on June 13, 2021, 12:46:35 PM
Pretty satisfied with my last two bakes and I was just about ready to give up on it.
Title: Re: Joj's NY Style Learning Thread (Waring WPO500)
Post by: billg on June 13, 2021, 06:24:16 PM
That looks great!!!!!!!
Title: Re: Joj's NY Style Learning Thread (Waring WPO500)
Post by: pwc123 on July 01, 2021, 07:54:32 PM
I'm up to an almost outrageous 6% sugar, but results have been good.
Title: Re: Joj's NY Style Learning Thread (Waring WPO500)
Post by: Joj on September 09, 2021, 12:35:55 PM
Although my pace of pizza making has slowed (mostly due to the effect it was having on my waistline :)), from time to time my thoughts drift to thinking this oven could be better than what we are experiencing.

I saw this review on webrestaurantstore that shed some new light on it for me. Spitballing here but I wonder if the wonky temp readings/unbalanced heat could be improved by tinkering with the probe for the temperature control knob.
Title: Re: Joj's NY Style Learning Thread (Waring WPO500)
Post by: pwc123 on September 09, 2021, 12:39:41 PM
Although my pace of pizza making has slowed (mostly due to the effect it was having on my waistline :)), from time to time my thoughts drift to thinking this oven could be better than what we are experiencing.

I saw this review on webrestaurantstore that shed some new light on it for me. Spitballing here but I wonder if the wonky temp readings/unbalanced heat could be improved by tinkering with the probe for the temperature control knob.
Funny enough, Waring sent me a replacement oven that arrived today after I contacted them about the uneven heating. I am not optimistic this one will be different though based on our discussions.
Title: Re: Joj's NY Style Learning Thread (Waring WPO500)
Post by: Joj on September 23, 2021, 11:41:38 AM
Did a 3hr same day dough, RT ferment (74 degrees in my house). Did not have high hopes as I came home from work and really wanted to make a pie. That being said it exceeded my expectations.

Dough formula below.

- Flour, malt, yeast, sugar in first
- Added water, mixed by hand until there was no raw flour
- Rest 15 min
- Mixed in salt then oil
- Hand kneaded for ~2min.
- Bench rest for 30 min then balled

Baked in the Waring, set to max temp for 1hr preheat, both elements on. Launched when my standalone oven thermometer was at 550. Did NOT use a screen this time, launched from the peel. 16oz dough ball and I only have a 14in peel so it was a thicker pie than usual.

Shut the bottom element off after 4 minutes and pulled the pie after 7min.
Obviously lacking in depth of flavor but the crust had the eggshell crisp, color (I would hope so with all the malt and sugar), and soft inside that I and been seeking.

Taking a step back for a little bit seems to have been helpful
Title: Re: Joj's NY Style Learning Thread (Waring WPO500)
Post by: Joj on September 23, 2021, 11:46:15 AM
Underside
https://imgur.com/a/nhRcCdM
Title: Re: Joj's NY Style Learning Thread (Waring WPO500)
Post by: pwc123 on September 23, 2021, 12:21:10 PM
Underside
https://imgur.com/a/nhRcCdM
Wow, night and day difference without the screen in terms of the crust. That makes me sad since it entirely eliminates my option of 18" pies.

Good work!
Title: Re: Joj's NY Style Learning Thread (Waring WPO500)
Post by: Fiorot on September 23, 2021, 10:45:25 PM
You say you turned the Max Heat on for preheat for 1 hour.  But you did not say what the temp was after 1 hour as it makes no difference where you put the thermostat setting above 650 F   I doubt the oven can get higher in 1 hour.
Title: Re: Joj's NY Style Learning Thread (Waring WPO500)
Post by: Fiorot on September 23, 2021, 10:49:27 PM
Wow, night and day difference without the screen in terms of the crust. That makes me sad since it entirely eliminates my option of 18" pies.

Good work!
I have been working with screens recently to make 18 inch pies.  I am finding it lengthens the time about 2 minutes but I find the crust not much different at all.  I have upped the oven to 650 instead of 550-600.    Top cooks fine either way with grande.  1.5 -2 hour preheat
Title: Re: Joj's NY Style Learning Thread (Waring WPO500)
Post by: pwc123 on September 23, 2021, 11:09:18 PM
I have been working with screens recently to make 18 inch pies.  I am finding it lengthens the time about 2 minutes but I find the crust not much different at all.  I have upped the oven to 650 instead of 550-600.    Top cooks fine either way with grande.  1.5 -2 hour preheat
I also use Grande and have two of these ovens. Both units could benefit from stronger top heat judging only on the process I've been using. I don't know whether the distance is too far or if the internal thermometer placement is limiting the output. I couldn't even guess what temperature the top element produces, but it's a fraction of 840 degrees and weaker than a broiler in a standard home oven based on methods I've tried to date.

I can run the top element on full blast for 10 minutes or more without burning the cheese or meaningfully browning the top crust, even with 5% sugar in the dough.

I generally place the pie in on a screen and then turn off the bottom element and max out the top only, but perhaps that doesn't allow the top element to reach it's potential since I preheat at 650. Maybe I could benefit from the max preheat as well. I'm not quite ready to admit defeat and have a few more things to experiment with, including ditching the screen.

This was my latest pie:
Title: Re: Joj's NY Style Learning Thread (Waring WPO500)
Post by: naval2006 on September 25, 2021, 07:24:38 AM
My oven is not WPO500 but the same type and similar issues. So last night I decided to try out something different to get the real NY pizza colour on top. I set bottom at 500 and top at 620.  After 45 minutes I tossed pepperoni pie on stone for two minutes.  Pulled it out and placed a 2 inch high pan in oven and pizza on a screen on the pan. Pizza was 4 inches away from top burner.  Left it for 4 minutes and I got great colouring, mozza melted but not burned and great pepperoni char. 

Anyway pie had a very good bottom char but a bit too tender, not enough undercarriage for a NY style.  However, it wasnít as chewy as we are used in this type of ovens.  So next Friday Iím going to give it a try with 3/4 minutes on bottom and the Iíll raise the pie. Dough was 65% hydration,2% sugar, no DM. The cheese had some leopard spots but it was stringy which is key in my opinion.

Sorry no pictures but I finished reading thread almost at the time I baked so no time. But definitely will do it next time for my 2 cents. Cheers,

Alex