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Author Topic: NY Style sauce discussion  (Read 55019 times)

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Offline RHawthorne

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Re: NY Style sauce discussion
« Reply #560 on: September 23, 2020, 01:40:23 AM »
Wow, how have I never seen this thread before in all the time I've been on this site? Anyway, a little while back, I had an idea for pizza sauce. I really like vodka sauce, and there are some well known NYC pizzerias that offer a vodka sauce pizza- not that I've been there. I thought to myself, how about making a vodka tomato sauce, but without the cream or cheese? The idea with the vodka is that it's supposed to unlock certain volatile components in the tomatoes and intensify their flavor, so if you left out the dairy components, wouldn't that make the tomato flavor that much more intense? I tried the idea out, but I did it with canned tomatoes, and I couldn't really discern any especially deep tomato flavor, so if I did it again, I'd do it with oven roasted fresh tomatoes. Anyway, I thought I'd drop that idea off here if anybody else wanted to pick it up and run with it.
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Offline woodfiredandrew

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Re: NY Style sauce discussion
« Reply #561 on: September 23, 2020, 10:32:16 AM »
Great discussion....I really like "Valoroso" whole peeled pear tomatoes, I have found them to be the best, we used to get san marzano from italy but these are the best so far, i lightly crush them and then add little bit of olive oil, fresh mince garlic, pinch of salt and oregano. if i am to pinch raw sausage on pizza then no oil in the sauce. it works great for me.   

Offline NY_Mike

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Re: NY Style sauce discussion
« Reply #562 on: September 29, 2020, 10:51:44 AM »
I managed to find a video and screenshot a sauce from a local Long Island favorite.
Probably what I'm going to try and shoot for with the next pie but it looks pretty typical:
Heavy on the herbs and a very hefty helping of Pecorino in there too.

I'm going to go with this is an uncooked sauce, but I also noticed it's not thin as I had thought it was so it's hard to determine how they get to that final product, maybe a heap of paste to thicken?
I know they also mix in a decent amount of oil directly on the pie with the sauce then cheese it. I've done the pecorino before, and it definitely adds a nice tang to it, and now that I'm thinking, I don't think it could it be a cooked sauce with the pecorino in it. I get the feeling it'd melt and you'd have no clue it was in there.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2020, 11:19:37 AM by NY_Mike »

Offline RHawthorne

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Re: NY Style sauce discussion
« Reply #563 on: September 30, 2020, 01:19:33 AM »
I managed to find a video and screenshot a sauce from a local Long Island favorite.
Probably what I'm going to try and shoot for with the next pie but it looks pretty typical:
Heavy on the herbs and a very hefty helping of Pecorino in there too.

I'm going to go with this is an uncooked sauce, but I also noticed it's not thin as I had thought it was so it's hard to determine how they get to that final product, maybe a heap of paste to thicken?
I know they also mix in a decent amount of oil directly on the pie with the sauce then cheese it. I've done the pecorino before, and it definitely adds a nice tang to it, and now that I'm thinking, I don't think it could it be a cooked sauce with the pecorino in it. I get the feeling it'd melt and you'd have no clue it was in there.
It's hard to say from that photo if the sauce is all that thick, or if there's just a good amount of it on the pie, and it's dark from a hefty dose of herbs, as you suggested. It might not actually be all that thick, but they might be using some paste. Or it could just be one of the thicker varieties of crushed tomato product, thinned down a bit.
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Offline RHawthorne

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Re: NY Style sauce discussion
« Reply #564 on: September 30, 2020, 01:22:55 AM »
Great discussion....I really like "Valoroso" whole peeled pear tomatoes, I have found them to be the best, we used to get san marzano from italy but these are the best so far, i lightly crush them and then add little bit of olive oil, fresh mince garlic, pinch of salt and oregano. if i am to pinch raw sausage on pizza then no oil in the sauce. it works great for me.
I'm curious about the Valoroso label. It appears to be made by Stanislaus, but for whatever reason, it's not available from my local foodservice outlet store, GFS, even though they carry the rest of the lineup. I've heard good things about Valoroso, like it's similar to Alta Cucina, but not as tangy, or something like that. Sounds like something I need to try.
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Offline NY_Mike

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Re: NY Style sauce discussion
« Reply #565 on: October 02, 2020, 11:11:35 AM »
It's hard to say from that photo if the sauce is all that thick, or if there's just a good amount of it on the pie, and it's dark from a hefty dose of herbs, as you suggested. It might not actually be all that thick, but they might be using some paste. Or it could just be one of the thicker varieties of crushed tomato product, thinned down a bit.

I'm actually swinging by that place tonight, I'll see if I can get a good look hahah
I get the feeling its not cooked, but I have seen them rolling in the commercial sized cans of tomatos....whether or not it was whole peeled or a 'sauce' is another question.

Offline hammettjr

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Re: NY Style sauce discussion
« Reply #566 on: October 02, 2020, 12:44:34 PM »
I'm actually swinging by that place tonight, I'll see if I can get a good look hahah
I get the feeling its not cooked, but I have seen them rolling in the commercial sized cans of tomatos....whether or not it was whole peeled or a 'sauce' is another question.

I've had luck at some places buying dough and sauce (and cheese). You may be able to take some sauce home.

Doesn't look like whole peeled. Could be a watered down heavy puree, or maybe Tomato Magic?
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Offline NY_Mike

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Re: NY Style sauce discussion
« Reply #567 on: October 02, 2020, 12:56:34 PM »
I've had luck at some places buying dough and sauce (and cheese). You may be able to take some sauce home.

Doesn't look like whole peeled. Could be a watered down heavy puree, or maybe Tomato Magic?

Yeah it definitely doesn't have a puree'd look to it at all, you're probably right.
Hammett you're from LI so you probably know the spot, this is from Little Vincents haha (I tried to respond to your PM but your inbox is full  ;D)
« Last Edit: October 02, 2020, 01:17:40 PM by NY_Mike »

Offline stevenfstein

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Re: NY Style sauce discussion
« Reply #568 on: October 02, 2020, 07:29:59 PM »
I'm curious about the Valoroso label. It appears to be made by Stanislaus, but for whatever reason, it's not available from my local foodservice outlet store, GFS, even though they carry the rest of the lineup. I've heard good things about Valoroso, like it's similar to Alta Cucina, but not as tangy, or something like that. Sounds like something I need to try.

Looks to be available at Ace Endico in NY but in #10 cans and looks like by the case although sometimes they break up the pack.
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Offline hammettjr

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Re: NY Style sauce discussion
« Reply #569 on: October 03, 2020, 11:23:57 AM »

Hammett you're from LI so you probably know the spot, this is from Little Vincents haha (I tried to respond to your PM but your inbox is full  ;D)

I know of L Vincent's,  but haven't been there. Hope you crack the code!
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Offline pvura

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Re: NY Style sauce discussion
« Reply #570 on: November 02, 2020, 01:07:05 PM »
I'm not sure where to post this, but I'll go with here.

I just had a very eye-opening experience at NY Pizza Suprema. I don't think I've had a slice quite like this before. And it was very good.

I could almost (almost, but I'd be wrong) say that you could remove the mozzarella without it impacting the slice. The flavor was so overwhelmingly dominated by the sauce/tomato and the hard cheese. The taste was sweet and rich.

Oregano was visible, having risen to the top of the slice, but it took the backseat to the other flavors.

The sauce had small chunks of tomato in it...and a big chunk that happily fell onto my plate. It was a chunk of plum tomato and skin. It tasted like a really good tomato.

I wish I could could give more details about it. I'm wondering if they only use romano or if there's parm in it too.

Hey, that pie looks fantastic. Would you mind sharing that dough recipe please? Would appreciate it. Thanks!

Offline woodfiredandrew

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Re: NY Style sauce discussion
« Reply #571 on: November 02, 2020, 04:26:42 PM »
I'm curious about the Valoroso label. It appears to be made by Stanislaus, but for whatever reason, it's not available from my local foodservice outlet store, GFS, even though they carry the rest of the lineup. I've heard good things about Valoroso, like it's similar to Alta Cucina, but not as tangy, or something like that. Sounds like something I need to try.

I have tried Alta Cucina, i prefer Voloroso over everything because i don't cook my sauce at all, i barely crush them and then add mince garlic, pinch of salt and oregano.   

Offline hammettjr

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Re: NY Style sauce discussion
« Reply #572 on: November 02, 2020, 05:16:42 PM »
Hey, that pie looks fantastic. Would you mind sharing that dough recipe please? Would appreciate it. Thanks!

Hey, it wasn't my pie unfortunately,  came from the pizzeria NY Pizza Suprema
Matt

Offline pvura

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Re: NY Style sauce discussion
« Reply #573 on: November 02, 2020, 05:40:40 PM »
For the first time in all my pizza-making, I cooked my sauce. And results were very promising.

Consistency look - It looked like the NY pizzeria sauce I've purchased previously. It was very thin, but without the watery look of a freshly opened can. And the shine from the oil looked just right. Somehow different from my usual.

Consistency bake - worked really well, with a nice resulting melt

Flavor meld - super interesting, I can see this resulting in the "I cant taste any individual ingredients, but there's a lot going on" kind of sauce. Only problem was even though I used half the onion called for, it was too strong.

My Question: I like the oregano to stand out, so assuming the flavors blend together when simmering (still have to try it without the onion), what's the best way to adjust? 2 alternatives I'm considering:
Option 1 - Put the oregano in later in the process, directly into the tomato instead of the oil at the start.
Option 2 - Save half the oregano and add it just before I top the pizza

My sauce is described below. It was based on Kenji's recipe with a few adjustments.

1 Tbs EVOO and 1 Tbs butter melted in a pot. Added and cooked the following for about 3 minutes on medium low:
1 tsp oregano, 1/2 tsp dry basil, 1/16 tsp red pepper flakes, a few grated cloves of garlic, 1/4 tsp salt.

Added 28oz can of Cento San Marzano that was pulsed in blender (but accidently pulsed too much, so no chunks).
1/2 tsp sugar
half a yellow onion
Simmered for 50 minutes then removed the onion.

After removing I added 1 Tbs Romano, which I forgot to do with the simmer.

Oh i see, thanks for the response!

Do u have a recipe for that dough? That looks killer as well 👀. Thanks!

Offline hammettjr

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Re: NY Style sauce discussion
« Reply #574 on: November 02, 2020, 06:08:12 PM »
I'm not a crust fanatic (more focused on sauce and cheese melt) but here's my current formula:

Dough
100% High Gluten Flour
63% Water
3% Oil or Butter
1% Sugar
2% Salt
1% LDMP
0.25% IDY
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Offline RHawthorne

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Re: NY Style sauce discussion
« Reply #575 on: November 02, 2020, 06:50:12 PM »
I have tried Alta Cucina, i prefer Voloroso over everything because i don't cook my sauce at all, i barely crush them and then add mince garlic, pinch of salt and oregano.
That's close to what I do. I use one can tomato product (I've tried quite a few, and I don't know if I've found a favorite yet, but I like 6-in-1 tomatoes quite a bit, and Stanislaus Tomato Magic), and add 1 tsp sea salt, 1 tsp dried oregano, and 1 crushed garlic clove. I don't like my seasonings any more intense than that, and I don't cook my sauce, although I have experimented with that in the past. I tried one can of Atla Cucina tomatoes and I liked them, but they weren't up there with my favorites.  I wish I could get just one can of Valoroso, but GFS doesn't carry that label, like I said. I could order it from webstaurantstore.com, but they only sell it by the whole case, and I could try on amazon, but people jack up prices there so much it's ridiculous. I'll keep my eyes open for some way to get my hands on a can.
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Offline Pizza Shark

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Re: NY Style sauce discussion
« Reply #576 on: November 02, 2020, 08:01:37 PM »
It is a fact that every pizzeria that cranks out some volume is keeping their sauce prep time to an absolute minimum to reduce labor cost.  That means they find what they prefer that is available in #10 cans by the case and create their own mix.  Most of us here can't afford to buy cases of various brands within a brand or outside of that brand to blend together and make a house pizza sauce.  One popular Stanislaus recipe is to mix 1 can of Full Red with 2 cans of 7/11 and season appropriately.  I've used Full Red by itself thinned out with water and I've used 711 straight from the can.  I prefer the 7/11 all day long and have never tried to mix them because that would mean opening 3 #10 cans at once and dealing with all that sauce.  As far as Stanislaus Saporito is concerned, don't even go there as that is the thickest stuff on earth that is sold for maximum yield and is indeed "SUPER HEAVY".  It may as well be tomato paste that you just keep adding more and more water to until you get to the consistency that works for you and then you sell those pies at fairs and such on the midway where you are a vendor with a pizza trailer and there is no such thing as a repeat customer.  Saporito was made for those who want to produce low quality pies dirt cheap in my opinion. It doesn't make a good pizza sauce on its own thinned out but perhaps it could be added as a thickener in moderate amount to such whole tomato and higher water content products like Alta Cucina.  This begs the question do you go with Alta Cucina or similar and thicken it with heavier blends like Full Red or (God forbid) Saporito or do ya just go with what works all the time?  I hang my hat on 7/11 by itself all day for the home baker who has access to it.  If I were to guess 7/11 has got to be Stanislaus' all time best and top selling product... You see it used everywhere in the pizza industry to full service sit down Italian dining. 
« Last Edit: November 02, 2020, 08:16:23 PM by Pizza Shark »

Offline stevenfstein

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Re: NY Style sauce discussion
« Reply #577 on: November 02, 2020, 08:29:31 PM »
anyone try Stanislaus Pizzaiolo sauce?    From their web site. "Pizzaiolo® is an authentic, fully-seasoned chunky pizza sauce, inspired by the artistry of neighborhood pizzaioli (pizza-makers) throughout Italy. A traditional blend of chunky vine-fresh tomatoes, extra virgin olive oil, oregano, garlic, and pepper, Pizzaiolo® has a ready-to-use thickness and authentic character enjoyed in real Italian pizzerias."

Best... Steve

Offline RHawthorne

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Re: NY Style sauce discussion
« Reply #578 on: November 02, 2020, 11:02:02 PM »
anyone try Stanislaus Pizzaiolo sauce?    From their web site. "Pizzaiolo® is an authentic, fully-seasoned chunky pizza sauce, inspired by the artistry of neighborhood pizzaioli (pizza-makers) throughout Italy. A traditional blend of chunky vine-fresh tomatoes, extra virgin olive oil, oregano, garlic, and pepper, Pizzaiolo® has a ready-to-use thickness and authentic character enjoyed in real Italian pizzerias."

Best... Steve
I almost bought a can of that stuff and then opted for something else instead. I guess I'm just hesitant to try anything that's pre-seasoned, in case I don't like the seasoning blend. Especially with garlic and potentially strong herbs like oregano, if there's too much in the mix, it's pretty much impossible to smooth it out without doing something like adding water, which dilutes the whole flavor profile, or mixing it with a can of some other sauce, which gives way too much sauce for any home pizzaiolo to use up in a reasonable time frame. But I still might try it some time.
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Offline scott r

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Re: NY Style sauce discussion
« Reply #579 on: November 03, 2020, 08:22:00 AM »
I was really surprised to find that its quite tasty.  I am pretty much scratch everything so normally I wouldn't cut corners and buy pre seasoned, but this stuff was great!  At home and at my restaurant I still add my own seasoning, but if you don't have time or want to deal with it don't fear the pizzaiolo!   Al dente pasta sauce is amazing too.

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